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[The Heretic of Time]

demersel wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Does the IT explain how we got from the council and/or Udina recognizing the Reaper threat and preparing for war in ME1's end and then to "ah yes reapers" and fighting against filler bad guys that were never mentioned before and working with a throwaway side quest enemy that had next to no development in the previous game in ME2?

Yes it does. 

Oh really? And how so?


I wonder, does the IT explain how in less than 2 years ALL the classic guns with classic heatsinks in the entire galaxy are all replaced with guns that use thermal clips? Does the IT also explain how and why we never see any classic gun with a classic heatsink anymore in ME2? Is that also a part of indoctrination?

Or what about Cerberus, that turned from a small splinter cell organisation into the Sith Empire 2.0 in merely 3 months? Does the IT explain that too?

Or what about the reapers being dumbasses and not shutting down the Mass Relays after conquering the Citadel, like they did in previous cycles? Does IT explain that too?

[RavenEyry]

Seboist wrote...

Pray tell, when exactly was Shep "indoctrinated"? I was under the impression it happened right before the beam in ME3's end.

Various possible places, as far back as the first beacon. The wacky dream is what starts at the beam.

To answer your first question, it's heavily implied the Citadel has some kind of 'calming' effect on people, which might explain why no one worries about the reapers until it's impossible not to ignore.

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so if I now say that the earth is a sphere I'm also choosing the facts? Or what if I say that evolution is a fact, I'm also choosing the facts? The creationists most certainly would say I am. But then again, the creationists are delusional.

Those are facts. Mass Effect 3 being a horrible mess because of the occasional unexplainable error or inconsistency is your opinion.

And implying I'm delusional does not make it so because, once again, you don't have magical powers to change reality.

"horrible" is an opinion. I didn't say "horrible mess" , I said "inconsistent mess". Which is what Mass Effect is. The inconcistencies in Mass Effect are much more frequent than "occasional" and they aren't just small errors either. Just look at the whole Quantum Entanglement Communicator mess that the video brings up. That's no small error. That's a huge f*ck up. How can you even justify that? Not even the IT can justify that.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:03 .

[Eryri]

RavenEyry wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Pray tell, when exactly was Shep "indoctrinated"? I was under the impression it happened right before the beam in ME3's end.

Various possible places, as far back as the first beacon. The wacky dream is what starts at the beam.

To answer your first question, it's heavily implied the Citadel has some kind of 'calming' effect on people, which might explain why no one worries about the reapers until it's impossible not to ignore.

James Vega: "It looks calm, peaceful. But it's just an illusion".

The Citadel is made of Reaper Tech after all, so it's not that much of a stretch to imagine it might have some low level indoctrination going on.

[dorktainian]

shepards indoctrination began with the Eden Prime beacon in ME1. jeez.

[umadcommander]

dorktainian wrote...

shepards indoctrination began with the Eden Prime beacon in ME1. jeez.

[acidic-ph0]

RavenEyry wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Pray tell, when exactly was Shep "indoctrinated"? I was under the impression it happened right before the beam in ME3's end.

Various possible places, as far back as the first beacon. The wacky dream is what starts at the beam.

To answer your first question, it's heavily implied the Citadel has some kind of 'calming' effect on people, which might explain why no one worries about the reapers until it's impossible not to ignore.

I just assumed that the council was begining to panic after nearly being detroyed in ME1... Then in ME2 they were starting to make sense of things...

Was Soveriegn a new type of Geth ship? Or was it an avatar of an entire fleet of Old-God Eldritch creatures with immense destructive and manipulative capabilities that lurk like nightmares in the dark recesses of space.

What makes more logical sense to you if you were a major political/military leader? Honestly, Shep's word may count for a lot, but the events of me 1 kind of remind me of someone trying to tell me that unicorns exist because they saw one in a dream once. And if I saw one in person, my initial reaction would still be that its just a horse with a fake horn glued to its head =P Much like the council just handwaved soveriegn as just another fancy Geth ship.

It just made more sense... That's why the Reapers were a real threat too... they were to unbelievable for a galaxy to comprehend. Just my opinion on the matter... I don't think you need IT for that.

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Just look at the whole Quantum Entanglement Communicator mess that the video brings up. That's no small error. That's a huge f*ck up. How can you even justify that? Not even the IT can justify that.

Narrative convenience. Deciding to use QEC's instead of blurry faces on screens was most likely conscious decision. Maybe not a good decision but that's subjective. Not automatically a "f*ck up" because they don't know their own lore.

[The Heretic of Time]

umadcommander wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

shepards indoctrination began with the Eden Prime beacon in ME1. jeez.

Hahahahaha!


Honestly, I think even the Bananas Theory makes more sense than the Indoctrination Theory.

[acidic-ph0]

umadcommander wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

shepards indoctrination began with the Eden Prime beacon in ME1. jeez.

Now that's pretty freaking funny XD 

[Eryri]

acidic-ph0 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Pray tell, when exactly was Shep "indoctrinated"? I was under the impression it happened right before the beam in ME3's end.

Various possible places, as far back as the first beacon. The wacky dream is what starts at the beam.

To answer your first question, it's heavily implied the Citadel has some kind of 'calming' effect on people, which might explain why no one worries about the reapers until it's impossible not to ignore.

I just assumed that the council was begining to panic after nearly being detroyed in ME1... Then in ME2 they were starting to make sense of things...

Was Soveriegn a new type of Geth ship? Or was it an avatar of an entire fleet of Old-God Eldritch creatures with immense destructive and manipulative capabilities that lurk like nightmares in the dark recesses of space.

What makes more logical sense to you if you were a major political/military leader? Honestly, Shep's word may count for a lot, but the events of me 1 kind of remind me of someone trying to tell me that unicorns exist because they saw one in a dream once. And if I saw one in person, my initial reaction would still be that its just a horse with a fake horn glued to its head =P Much like the council just handwaved soveriegn as just another fancy Geth ship.

It just made more sense... That's why the Reapers were a real threat too... they were to unbelievable for a galaxy to comprehend. Just my opinion on the matter... I don't think you need IT for that.

This too. The Ostritch defense mechanism unfortunately seems to be built into the DNA of politicians - human or otherwise.

Modifié par Eryri, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:10 .

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Just look at the whole Quantum Entanglement Communicator mess that the video brings up. That's no small error. That's a huge f*ck up. How can you even justify that? Not even the IT can justify that.

Narrative convenience. Deciding to use QEC's instead of blurry faces on screens was most likely conscious decision. Maybe not a good decision but that's subjective. Not automatically a "f*ck up" because they don't know their own lore.

Ah, so now it's a narrative convenience, but if I dare to explain Shepards breathing scene after the epilogues from a literal perspective with "narritive convenience" I'm declared crazy by the ITers in this thread? How hypocritical.

[Restrider]

RavenEyry wrote...

Andromidius wrote...
Its my guess that Sovereign is merely the English translation of what Nazara means.  Or an English translation of whatever title Nazara gave itself.

Same with Harbinger.  I wonder if any other Reapers have names like that.

I choose to call the Rannoch destroyer Frank because he was rather frank about his opinions.

That Reaper is named Earl...

[TheProtheans]

CoolioThane wrote...

You can't defeat the overwhelming structure of IT. 

Yes you think it's wrong, we think it's right. You don't know it's wrong, we don't know it's right. Leave it at that. Why come into probably the most well known thread on BSN and start spewing insults when you know you're just going to leave with your tail between your legs is beyond me.

It's a theory, I'm not trying to debunk it as a theory.
Hell I even argued that it was a theory before when someone said it was fan fiction.

But it worries people think it will be more despite Bioware stating otherwise.
There is no other word for it, nothing Bioware did after the game indicates they plan to alter the ending.

Perhaps this thread is just discussion about content that will never happen, in that case it is pointless.
You're wasting your months away talking about something largely irrelevant  that will never be revealed because doing so would require altering the ending which is out of the question.
I find it kinda sad, but at the same time kinda funny that people are that passionate about something that will never happen.
But as long as all you ITers have false hope and cash to give, Bioware will keep your fantasies as to what will happen alive.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:14 .

[demersel]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ah, so when all else fails, bring out the ad hominems and strawmen.  classic ITist behavior.

you are mistaken, but that is understandable, since you are an idiot.  Not when all else fails. It's just in your case i prefer to open with personal insults. 

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Ah, so now it's a narrative convenience, but if I dare to explain Shepards breathing scene after the epilogues from a literal perspective with "narritive convenience" I'm declared crazy by the ITers in this thread? How hypocritical.

There's a difference in magnitude at work. You didn't even know about the QEC thing until today but nearly everyone who saw the breath scene the first time had their suspension of disbelief shattered. One is to make things a little more entertaining, the other is a blatant disregard for anything approaching reality.

And you didn't call it narrative convenience anyway, you insisted that there wasn't a humongous explosion visible.

[The Heretic of Time]

demersel wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ah, so when all else fails, bring out the ad hominems and strawmen.  classic ITist behavior.

you are mistaken, but that is understandable, since you are an idiot.  Not when all else fails. It's just in your case i prefer to open with personal insults. 

You're pathetic. Reported.

[RavenEyry]

Can't take insults but happily give them out? I'm wondering who the real pathetic one is.

[demersel]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

demersel wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ah, so when all else fails, bring out the ad hominems and strawmen.  classic ITist behavior.

you are mistaken, but that is understandable, since you are an idiot.  Not when all else fails. It's just in your case i prefer to open with personal insults. 

You're pathetic. Reported.

Crybaby. It is okey for you to insult other people, but when someone call you out, Oh know! NO-NO, Taboo. Go report yoursefl. And while you're at it get yourself commited. 

[Eryri]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Ah, so now it's a narrative convenience, but if I dare to explain Shepards breathing scene after the epilogues from a literal perspective with "narritive convenience" I'm declared crazy by the ITers in this thread? How hypocritical.

There's a difference in magnitude at work. You didn't even know about the QEC thing until today but nearly everyone who saw the breath scene the first time had their suspension of disbelief shattered. One is to make things a little more entertaining, the other is a blatant disregard for anything approaching reality.

And you didn't call it narrative convenience anyway, you insisted that there wasn't a humongous explosion visible.

Indeed. No-one with any sense expects a sci-fi universe to be a 100% faithful representation of reality.
We accept audible explosions in space, and largely humanoid aliens who speak English with various funny accents, and instantaneous communication across vast distances, because it would be almost impossible to tell an exciting story without these things.

However, asking us to accept a half dead Shepard surviving a fireball powerful enough to knock Reapers around, is a stretch so vast that no writer capable of putting pen to paper would ever expect his or her audience to tolerate. Unless, perhaps they didn't...

[umadcommander]

Eryri wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Ah, so now it's a narrative convenience, but if I dare to explain Shepards breathing scene after the epilogues from a literal perspective with "narritive convenience" I'm declared crazy by the ITers in this thread? How hypocritical.

There's a difference in magnitude at work. You didn't even know about the QEC thing until today but nearly everyone who saw the breath scene the first time had their suspension of disbelief shattered. One is to make things a little more entertaining, the other is a blatant disregard for anything approaching reality.

And you didn't call it narrative convenience anyway, you insisted that there wasn't a humongous explosion visible.

Indeed. No-one with any sense expects a sci-fi universe to be a 100% faithful representation of reality.
We accept audible explosions in space, and largely humanoid aliens who speak English with various funny accents, and instantaneous communication across vast distances, because it would be almost impossible to tell an exciting story without these things.

However, asking us to accept a half dead Shepard surviving a fireball powerful enough to knock Reapers around, is a stretch so vast that no writer capable of putting pen to paper would ever expect his or her audience to tolerate. Unless, perhaps they didn't...

this calls for another picture:D

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Ah, so now it's a narrative convenience, but if I dare to explain Shepards breathing scene after the epilogues from a literal perspective with "narritive convenience" I'm declared crazy by the ITers in this thread? How hypocritical.

There's a difference in magnitude at work. You didn't even know about the QEC thing until today but nearly everyone who saw the breath scene the first time had their suspension of disbelief shattered. One is to make things a little more entertaining, the other is a blatant disregard for anything approaching reality.

And you didn't call it narrative convenience anyway, you insisted that there wasn't a humongous explosion visible.

I didn't deny the explosions. I merely stated the fact that in the EC the Citadel no longer completely explodes. Which makes the breathing scene a bit less unrealistic. Now the breathing scene makes more sense. Previously people assumed the breathing scene was on earth, but now it's clear it isn't. The breathing scene is on the Citadel.

The fact that Shepard survives the explosions on the Citadel requires a bit suspense of disbelief indeed, but it's like you said, "narrative convenience".

I strongly believe that the only reason the breathing scene was added in the game at all is to give the players a sense of hope for their Shepards. I think Mac Walters originally just wanted to kill Shepard off. After all, ME3 would be the last game with Shepard. This is the end of his story. Shepards story is done. No more Shepard, that much is clear. So killing him at the end of the trilogy is okay (although a bit cliché). However, if there wasn't any possible way to get a "Shepard survives" ending, a lot of people would be pissed off. People are already pissed off that they can't have their Shepard reuniting with his/her LI.


Edit: To add to this. The EC was made in a hurry and on a low budget. They managed to do a lot with some smart editing, but completely altering scenes takes time and money, especially pre-rendered scenes. I think at this point BioWare simply hoped people would accept Shepards breathing scene if they just showed the Citadel doesn't blow up in the EC. Which they did show. The place where Shepard was on the Citadel (on the other side of the Citadel tower) is still completely 100% in tact, no damage at all!

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 04 décembre 2012 - 04:30 .

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

I didn't deny the explosions. I merely stated the fact that in the EC the Citadel no longer completely explodes.

The explosion is the same, the only major difference is one of the arms doesn't fall off.

[ElSuperGecko]

Successful troll appears to have become successful. Why exactly does Hanar's handwaving of the entire game matter, anyway? It's just an opinion. It's a wrong opinion, but that doesn't mean Hanar isn't entitled to it...

[RavenEyry]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Successful troll appears to have become successful. Why exactly does Hanar's handwaving of the entire game matter, anyway? It's just an opinion. It's a wrong opinion, but that doesn't mean Hanar isn't entitled to it...

That's what I thought until he decided it wasn't opinion but hard fact, because he says so.