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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#58401
Dwailing

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TheProtheans wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Why would I post my "truth", I'm not even sure what you mean.
No I will post an essay as to why I think IT won't happen.

Fixed that for you.


So you think it will happen despite Bioware stating they won't be adding anything further to the ending.


They don't need to add anything further to the endings for IT to work.  All they need to do is give us the post-ending content that shows the effect of our decision.  It's a distinction that many Literalists seem to not understand.

#58402
BatmanTurian

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TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Eryri wrote...

 Well isn't this interesting. Our friend The Protheans who was so entertaining last night, has also decided to troll the Synthesis thread:

The Protheans said...

Damn that is sad.
I would hate to have been changed into an abomination just because some fool wanted to violate the galaxy without it's consent 
Changing me into having different views and transforming my body into something disgusting.

No, no it can not be forced.
This is essentially a NWO or in this case a NGO and it's not fun.
Your life as you knew it is over, you have no freedom.


At least he/she is being fair and even handed in winding everybody up. While I've no love for synthesis, I wouldn't go into their thread and criticise it just to annoy people. I will never understand why some people get a kick out of being a bit of a jerk on the internet?


I'm not winding anyone up on purpose, if you have a problem it is only because you know I am right and you're wrong and that you're just delusional.
But alas, it seems you people are hell bent on dismissing the truth.

The Protheans out.


Translation: I'm a troll against everyone, I don't discriminate.


I'd prefer if you replied to my reply to your post,
But continue to be ignorant of the truth if you wish.


I'd prefer if you explained what reply I'm supposed to reply to

#58403
spotlessvoid

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No Bioware developer has ever said that. In fact, they refuse to acknowledge the question. Only community managers have spoken on it. The same ones who denied MP, Leviathan, Omega, etc

#58404
Vinny

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 Hey there

Just a couple of things I found while I was replaying the Trilogy.

Let's start with the funny one : Mordin's loyalty mission. Squadmate : Miranda. Remember the Krogan from clan Urdnot? Help him escape the lab, wait for a few seconds and...
Miranda : "Hopefully his story of curing the genophage will be passed off as a hallucination."
Yes Miranda. Thank you Miranda.

Now the "not so funny "one. I assume a large majority of the people around here are English native speakers?Well, my friends, you don't have the chance to witness the greatness of the French translation.
Their work has been a disaster from Day 1.
A little note before I start : I play in English with the French subtitles.

Save the Rachni Queen on Noveria and play the Rachni mission in ME3. Save the Queen (again) and once you're back on the Normandy, talk to Joker.

Joker : "So I heard you made some kind of deal with the Rachni Queen?"
Shepard : "Yes, she's been captured but she's ok. She's with us now."
Joker : "...Until the Reapers start to sing their sour yellow note or whatever."
So far, so good.

Until you read the French translation : 
Joker : "Ouais jusqu'à ce que les Moissonneurs lui chantent un truc jaune ou bleu ou vert."
[English translation] : "Until the Reapers start to sing their sour yellow, blue, green note or whatever."
Yellow = Jaune
Green = Vert
Blue = Bleu

Gotta love the French subtitles....

Modifié par Epök, 04 décembre 2012 - 06:09 .


#58405
Restrider

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Ignoring the troll savagery now.

I'd like to talk about CW3:
First of all the production is of high quality as usual. I also did like the different chapters except the QEC topic for several points I will elaborate in the following list:

1) The concept of QEC was introduced to us in ME2 and was supposedly present in ME1 (instantaneous connection to the Council for instance). Thus we can assume that this technology has been improved during three years. It is stated that the communication is point-to-point, but that only applies for each set of entagled particles, and particles are small.
Is it really such a stretch to assume that the ship that was being retro-fitted by the Alliance to become Admiral Anderson's mobile command center has several sets of entagled particles that can communicate to several important places? Here a short list:
  - Admiral Hackett, one of the most important military leaders
  - the Citadel
  - Earth (we can assume that the QEC Anderson uses has been salvaged from the Alliance HQ)

2) QEC might as well be using proxies. I'll show you how this works. Imagine we had two sets of entangled particles that link between Earth HQ and the Normandy and between the Normandy and the Citadel. The guy on Earth - Anderson for instance - transmits his set of information to the Normandy counterpart. That information is then feeded into the second set of entangled pairs to reach the Citadel. Now multiply this kind of proxy communciation with the total number of sets and you can conclude that the conference calls with Hackett and Anderson are not impossible!

3) Interference. It is correct that direct QEC cannot be intercepted and there cannot be any interference. But the first messages sent do not have to be typical QEC point-to-point exclusively. There might be standard communication in-between (like sending a normal transmission from Hackett's ship to a communication hub with several entangled sets, which will then link to the Normandy via QEC). So, the interference part might happen before the QEC part is involved.
Maybe Hackett's ship is just in bad shape due to the recent battle. It's like blaming a poor Skype performance on the glass fibre while in reality your microphone is just ****ty.

4) Blue holograms and hexagonal texture. Firstly hexagonal texture is all over the place. I am not talking about ME right now. It is a fancy texture used in a lot in gaming lately. I've seen it a lot in ME, in SC2 and other sci-fi related entertainment.
Anyway, to the more important stuff. The use of a blue hologram does not automatically mean that it is QEC. It's like saying that while using Skype you will always have a red filter over your video chat when using WiFi or a blue filter when using cable. Does this sound silly to you? Well, it is a fitting analogy!
It is save to assume that communcation in the London FOB was not through QEC since most of the squadmates were in London (the only exception being Jacob, who is guarding the Crucible afaik, I'll give you that oddity).
Furthermore, the use of blue holograms rather than a fully colored hologram is advantegous due to the accessable band width.

In conclusion: 
I will admit that not every explanation I made is perfect, but I am certain that the whole fuss about the QEC is just futile and leads no where. I have tried to address all core points that indicate that there might be something off with the QEC and to me, most of it is plausible (with minor exceptions that were implemented due to convenience [on the other hand, they could've just easily skipped Jacob in the FOB]).

Edit:
Did you know that the sound in space is actually a simulation for observers/pilots/crews? Cortez mentions this.
Even sound in space - a common convenience scientifically totally wrong in most sci-fi movies/games - is explained in ME and people still spout around that BW does not care about science.

#58406
TheProtheans

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

But honestly, the IT doesn't explain the biggest problem I have with the ME3 story:

The whole "the reapers conquer the Citadel and take it to Earth, but forgot to shut down the Mass Relays" problem.

It would make sense to take the Citadel to planet earth to harvest humanity and build a reaper. The Citadel was clearly being used the same way the Collector Base was being used. But why the f*ck are the reapers so F*CKING STUPID that they didn't shut down the Mass Relays after dragging the Citadel to planet Earth? They were smart enough to do that in the previous cycles and it always assured victory for the reapers. Why are they so godforsaken stupid now?


The Protheans sabotaged the Keepers. It's all in the story. Pay attention.


It is speculation that the Protheans did more than just altering the Citadel's signal so that the Keepers ignored it.
I see no reason as to why they relay system wasn't shut down and nothing indicates that it is the keepers who shuts it down.
And what would stop the Reapers from changing it even if the keepers were the ones who shut it down.

#58407
BatmanTurian

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Epök wrote...

 Hey there

Just a couple of things I found while I was replaying the Trilogy.

Let's start with the funny one : Mordin's loyalty mission. Squadmate : Miranda. Remember the Krogan from clan Urdnot? Help him escape the lab, wait for a few seconds and...
Miranda : "Hopefully his story of curing the genophage will be passed off as a hallucination."
Yes Miranda. Thank you Miranda.

Now the "not so funny "one. I assume a large majority of the people around here are English native speakers?Well, my friends, you don't have the chance to witness the greatness of the French translation.
Their work has been a disaster from Day 1.
A little note before I start : I play in English with the French subtitles.

Save the Rachni Queen on Noveria and play the Rachni mission in ME3. Save the Queen (again) and once you're back on the Normandy, talk to Joker.

Joker : "So I heard you made some kind of deal with the Rachni Queen?"
Shepard : "Yes, she's been captured but she's ok. She's with us now."
Joker : "...Until the Reapers start to sing their sour yellow note or whatever."
So far, so good.

Until you read the French translation : 
Joker : "Ouais jusqu'à ce que les Moissonneurs lui chantent un truc jaune ou bleu ou vert."
[English translation] : "Until the Reapers start to sing their sour yellow, blue, green note or whatever."
Yellow = Jaune
Green = Vert
Blue = Bleu

Gotta love the French subtitles....


Hi, Epok. Good to see you again.

#58408
BatmanTurian

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TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

But honestly, the IT doesn't explain the biggest problem I have with the ME3 story:

The whole "the reapers conquer the Citadel and take it to Earth, but forgot to shut down the Mass Relays" problem.

It would make sense to take the Citadel to planet earth to harvest humanity and build a reaper. The Citadel was clearly being used the same way the Collector Base was being used. But why the f*ck are the reapers so F*CKING STUPID that they didn't shut down the Mass Relays after dragging the Citadel to planet Earth? They were smart enough to do that in the previous cycles and it always assured victory for the reapers. Why are they so godforsaken stupid now?


The Protheans sabotaged the Keepers. It's all in the story. Pay attention.


It is speculation that the Protheans did more than just altering the Citadel's signal so that the Keepers ignored it.
I see no reason as to why they relay system wasn't shut down and nothing indicates that it is the keepers who shuts it down.
And what would stop the Reapers from changing it even if the keepers were the ones who shut it down.

Lol, it's not speculation. It's in ME1. If you're going to debate, at least know the facts are clearly there in the subject we're debating about.

It was the whole reason Sovereign had to get into the Citidel, to keep that surprise mass relay shutdown going. That was his job as the one who stayed behind. He was supposed to stay in contact with the Keepers to open the relay to Dark Space. In retrospect, he was a major F***up.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 décembre 2012 - 06:12 .


#58409
BatmanTurian

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love it... we're now ignoring and denying facts that are established as far back as the first game. Ridiculous.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 décembre 2012 - 06:15 .


#58410
Vinny

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BatmanTurian wrote...
Hi, Epok. Good to see you again.


Hey ! How are you doing?

#58411
demersel

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Riddle me this - how is Liara able to bring so much equipment with hir onboard of the Normandy, and install it so quickly, when you resque her unexpectantly from Mars? Was all this equipment already installed on the normandy by allience retrofit? Did she bring it all with her in her pocket?

#58412
BatmanTurian

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Epök wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
Hi, Epok. Good to see you again.


Hey ! How are you doing?


Pretty good. Sorry about the French translation butchering the story.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 décembre 2012 - 06:17 .


#58413
TheProtheans

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Dwailing wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Why would I post my "truth", I'm not even sure what you mean.
No I will post an essay as to why I think IT won't happen.

Fixed that for you.


So you think it will happen despite Bioware stating they won't be adding anything further to the ending.


They don't need to add anything further to the endings for IT to work.  All they need to do is give us the post-ending content that shows the effect of our decision.  It's a distinction that many Literalists seem to not understand.


That would be adding to the ending.
What post ending content do you want? 

#58414
BatmanTurian

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demersel wrote...

Riddle me this - how is Liara able to bring so much equipment with hir onboard of the Normandy, and install it so quickly, when you resque her unexpectantly from Mars? Was all this equipment already installed on the normandy by allience retrofit? Did she bring it all with her in her pocket?


Presumably she has her own ship in orbit around mars.

#58415
Restrider

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demersel wrote...

Riddle me this - how is Liara able to bring so much equipment with hir onboard of the Normandy, and install it so quickly, when you resque her unexpectantly from Mars? Was all this equipment already installed on the normandy by allience retrofit? Did she bring it all with her in her pocket?

That is actually an interesting question. I'd say it is not on the Normandy and not from Mars.
Afaik, we can access that room only after we have been on the Citadel, right?

#58416
dorktainian

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yay this thread is still going.

#58417
TheProtheans

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BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

But honestly, the IT doesn't explain the biggest problem I have with the ME3 story:

The whole "the reapers conquer the Citadel and take it to Earth, but forgot to shut down the Mass Relays" problem.

It would make sense to take the Citadel to planet earth to harvest humanity and build a reaper. The Citadel was clearly being used the same way the Collector Base was being used. But why the f*ck are the reapers so F*CKING STUPID that they didn't shut down the Mass Relays after dragging the Citadel to planet Earth? They were smart enough to do that in the previous cycles and it always assured victory for the reapers. Why are they so godforsaken stupid now?


The Protheans sabotaged the Keepers. It's all in the story. Pay attention.


It is speculation that the Protheans did more than just altering the Citadel's signal so that the Keepers ignored it.
I see no reason as to why they relay system wasn't shut down and nothing indicates that it is the keepers who shuts it down.
And what would stop the Reapers from changing it even if the keepers were the ones who shut it down.

Lol, it's not speculation. It's in ME1. If you're going to debate, at least know the facts are clearly there in the subject we're debating about.

It was the whole reason Sovereign had to get into the Citidel, to keep that surprise mass relay shutdown going. That was his job as the one who stayed behind. He was supposed to stay in contact with the Keepers to open the relay to Dark Space. In retrospect, he was a major F***up.


The fact is the Protheans altered the Citadel's signal so the keeper would not accept it, anything more is speculating. 
And Sovereign locked out the alliance fleet during the battle, so he had the power to shut it down.
Why can't the Reapers do it now?

#58418
BatmanTurian

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Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

Riddle me this - how is Liara able to bring so much equipment with hir onboard of the Normandy, and install it so quickly, when you resque her unexpectantly from Mars? Was all this equipment already installed on the normandy by allience retrofit? Did she bring it all with her in her pocket?

That is actually an interesting question. I'd say it is not on the Normandy and not from Mars.
Afaik, we can access that room only after we have been on the Citadel, right?


Perhaps she procures the tech on the citadel and then just build the setup in that room with Glyph's help?

#58419
demersel

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BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Riddle me this - how is Liara able to bring so much equipment with hir onboard of the Normandy, and install it so quickly, when you resque her unexpectantly from Mars? Was all this equipment already installed on the normandy by allience retrofit? Did she bring it all with her in her pocket?


Presumably she has her own ship in orbit around mars.


And you had time to dock to it, and strip it clear from equipment, while on the run from the reapers and trying to reach the citadel as soon as possible, while having a dying virmire sirvivor in med bay, and again full system of reapers. 
Besides, where do we know about this ship from? I seem to have missed it. 

#58420
Vinny

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Epök wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
Hi, Epok. Good to see you again.


Hey ! How are you doing?


Pretty good. Sorry abuut the French translation butchering the story.


Well, let's say it's funny to read some of their stuff when the conversation turns out to be boring. In this case, the fact that Indoctrination is translated as a "sour blue/green/yellow note" in French made me wonder if this whole theory was really planned. I liked the interpretation but I always had a doubt about BioWare pulling a twist like that.
If they do it.... They got balls.

#58421
BatmanTurian

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TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

But honestly, the IT doesn't explain the biggest problem I have with the ME3 story:

The whole "the reapers conquer the Citadel and take it to Earth, but forgot to shut down the Mass Relays" problem.

It would make sense to take the Citadel to planet earth to harvest humanity and build a reaper. The Citadel was clearly being used the same way the Collector Base was being used. But why the f*ck are the reapers so F*CKING STUPID that they didn't shut down the Mass Relays after dragging the Citadel to planet Earth? They were smart enough to do that in the previous cycles and it always assured victory for the reapers. Why are they so godforsaken stupid now?


The Protheans sabotaged the Keepers. It's all in the story. Pay attention.


It is speculation that the Protheans did more than just altering the Citadel's signal so that the Keepers ignored it.
I see no reason as to why they relay system wasn't shut down and nothing indicates that it is the keepers who shuts it down.
And what would stop the Reapers from changing it even if the keepers were the ones who shut it down.

Lol, it's not speculation. It's in ME1. If you're going to debate, at least know the facts are clearly there in the subject we're debating about.

It was the whole reason Sovereign had to get into the Citidel, to keep that surprise mass relay shutdown going. That was his job as the one who stayed behind. He was supposed to stay in contact with the Keepers to open the relay to Dark Space. In retrospect, he was a major F***up.


The fact is the Protheans altered the Citadel's signal so the keeper would not accept it, anything more is speculating. 
And Sovereign locked out the alliance fleet during the battle, so he had the power to shut it down.
Why can't the Reapers do it now?

No, it's not speculating. The Keepers were the ones who opened the relay in the past cycles.  Sovereign had to send Saren in to do it manually because apparently he can't do it remotely and needs a thrall (sound familiar? Leviathans?) to do it for him. The reapers can't do it now for the same reason. The Keepers are still sabotaged by the Protheans.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 04 décembre 2012 - 06:22 .


#58422
umadcommander

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TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

But honestly, the IT doesn't explain the biggest problem I have with the ME3 story:

The whole "the reapers conquer the Citadel and take it to Earth, but forgot to shut down the Mass Relays" problem.

It would make sense to take the Citadel to planet earth to harvest humanity and build a reaper. The Citadel was clearly being used the same way the Collector Base was being used. But why the f*ck are the reapers so F*CKING STUPID that they didn't shut down the Mass Relays after dragging the Citadel to planet Earth? They were smart enough to do that in the previous cycles and it always assured victory for the reapers. Why are they so godforsaken stupid now?


The Protheans sabotaged the Keepers. It's all in the story. Pay attention.


It is speculation that the Protheans did more than just altering the Citadel's signal so that the Keepers ignored it.
I see no reason as to why they relay system wasn't shut down and nothing indicates that it is the keepers who shuts it down.
And what would stop the Reapers from changing it even if the keepers were the ones who shut it down.

Lol, it's not speculation. It's in ME1. If you're going to debate, at least know the facts are clearly there in the subject we're debating about.

It was the whole reason Sovereign had to get into the Citidel, to keep that surprise mass relay shutdown going. That was his job as the one who stayed behind. He was supposed to stay in contact with the Keepers to open the relay to Dark Space. In retrospect, he was a major F***up.


The fact is the Protheans altered the Citadel's signal so the keeper would not accept it, anything more is speculating. 
And Sovereign locked out the alliance fleet during the battle, so he had the power to shut it down.
Why can't the Reapers do it now?



saren manually closed it, not sovereign its closing before he gets inside 
dammit :ph34r:

Modifié par umadcommander, 04 décembre 2012 - 06:24 .


#58423
TheProtheans

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BatmanTurian wrote...

I'd prefer if you explained what reply I'm supposed to reply to


If no organic or synthetic could possibly survive that blast as you say.
Why is Shepard injured in the high destroy ending?
And at what point did this Hallucination begin?

#58424
BatmanTurian

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demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Riddle me this - how is Liara able to bring so much equipment with hir onboard of the Normandy, and install it so quickly, when you resque her unexpectantly from Mars? Was all this equipment already installed on the normandy by allience retrofit? Did she bring it all with her in her pocket?


Presumably she has her own ship in orbit around mars.


And you had time to dock to it, and strip it clear from equipment, while on the run from the reapers and trying to reach the citadel as soon as possible, while having a dying virmire sirvivor in med bay, and again full system of reapers. 
Besides, where do we know about this ship from? I seem to have missed it. 

Like any story, the author skips the boring everyday stuff unless it's super important. It's called cutting the fat. Showing Liara installing it would be boring.

#58425
demersel

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Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

Riddle me this - how is Liara able to bring so much equipment with hir onboard of the Normandy, and install it so quickly, when you resque her unexpectantly from Mars? Was all this equipment already installed on the normandy by allience retrofit? Did she bring it all with her in her pocket?

That is actually an interesting question. I'd say it is not on the Normandy and not from Mars.
Afaik, we can access that room only after we have been on the Citadel, right?



Ok, so the citadel version seem plausable. 
next question. So we have a shadow broker's rig, via glyph and stuff, brought into the normandy while on the citaded. (let's ignore "why not finish the retrofit, and fix all the loose cables thing, then as well?" question for now.) 

How come the QEC room background has exactly the same pattern as the panels on the Shadow Broker ship, while we have the core of the shadow broker ship installed there as well?  Was it installed at the same time? Was it installed at two different times? They evidently come from the same source.

In fact we don't get to use the war room, and the QEC room before we visit the citadel, do we? So is it possible that the retrofit on earth did not include those things, and the ship was almost stripped naked when we left it, BUT ince we get to the citadel it is equipped with both the Shadow Broker's rig AND the ALMIGHTY YET SUCCEPTABLE TO INTERFIERANCE QEC?