80611 réponses à ce sujet

[demersel]

Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

Restrider, I didn't ignore it. It is just i find that there isn't actualy anything to discuss about the CW ep3.

And any discussion on CW is pointless until they say what they have to say in full, since they refuse to have it anyother way. And I really doubt, that they will have it even then - They'll just say - everything we had to say on the subject are in our videos - if you don't get - watch it again. 

What do you think of the Cortez' stuff? He actually said a similar thing after the Firebase Giant mission. That he turned off the accoustic emulators and watched the Cerberus Cruiser get blown to pieces silently.

I think that it is a nice detail. 

but again it does not prove one way or the other. 

THere was this series - Life on Mars, where a London police detective gets hit by a car and comes to into 1972 for some reason - where he is also a cop. 

Full Spoilers ahaed

So he start ot suspect that everything he sees is not real and instead he is just in a coma -  and dreams it all - so he wants to wake up - and to do that he thinks he need to jump of the roof - kill himself - but some pretty woman finds him and talks him out of it. You know how? When she comes to him and takes his hand - he is surprised, cause he can feel sand on her palm. 
He ask - how come there is sand on your palm??
- I was in such a hyrry to reach you in time to stop you, so i fell, while running the stairs up - and when i fell i got my hand dipped into and fire bucket with sand. 
- If this is all a dream why would i dream such a detail? That is nonesense. 

And he doesn't jump. 
Later in the show it turnes out he was in a coma and dreaming it all. 

Modifié par demersel, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:56 .

[dorktainian]

demersel wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

demersel wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

And your point is?

the beam goes from top to bottom.  That is the beam from earth (Not from the crucible.....ok it could be the crucible but since everything here is a dream i am assuming it's the beam from earth and the crucible is a dud)  you know the beam in london.  the one you charge.  the one harbinger is stood BEHIND.  when it fires it fires upwards.  but upwards from there is down.    if shep throws himself down into the beam he is actually throwing himself up (yuk)

I don't really understood what you were tryinfg to say, but you raise an interesting point - how were they able to dock the crucible at all, since it is supposed to be docked exactly at the point of the beam, and as far as we know - the beam stilll works?

 shepard is stood on the bottom of the citadel.  he is looking up (in theory) at the crucible which as now replaced the beam (in theory) as an energy source for the citadel.  (although to me it's still the beam)  it is upside down.  The citadel is beneath him.  when he jumps he is not jumping towards earth.  he is jumping towards the presidium tower.  when the crudible fires (supposedly) it fires upwards from sheps point of view.  That would mean it firing towards earth, but in the fmv you clearly see the beam fire outwards towards the relay.  now dont get me wrong (an i might be looking at something that isnt there) but that does not make sense at all.  Hackett says the crucible isn't doing anything.  We see otherwise.  Who is telling the truth here?  none of it makes sense.

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...
While I respect the creators of Choose Wisely and the series itself, I'm confused by why HellishFiend employs this attitude towards the audience. First he touts marvelous things in the video, then he bashes anyone who dares to disagree and essentially tells them to shove their opinions. This is not the way to go and I said it here before.

I can understand and explain this attitude perfectly. But it is childish nonethe less. 

[dorktainian]

oh dear god my brain hurts now. damn you bioware.

[paxxton]

dorktainian wrote...

demersel wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

demersel wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

And your point is?

the beam goes from top to bottom.  That is the beam from earth (Not from the crucible.....ok it could be the crucible but since everything here is a dream i am assuming it's the beam from earth and the crucible is a dud)  you know the beam in london.  the one you charge.  the one harbinger is stood BEHIND.  when it fires it fires upwards.  but upwards from there is down.    if shep throws himself down into the beam he is actually throwing himself up (yuk)

I don't really understood what you were tryinfg to say, but you raise an interesting point - how were they able to dock the crucible at all, since it is supposed to be docked exactly at the point of the beam, and as far as we know - the beam stilll works?

 shepard is stood on the bottom of the citadel.  he is looking up (in theory) at the crucible which as now replaced the beam (in theory) as an energy source for the citadel.  (although to me it's still the beam)  it is upside down.  The citadel is beneath him.  when he jumps he is not jumping towards earth.  he is jumping towards the presidium tower.  when the crudible fires (supposedly) it fires upwards from sheps point of view.  That would mean it firing towards earth, but in the fmv you clearly see the beam fire outwards towards the relay.  now dont get me wrong (an i might be looking at something that isnt there) but that does not make sense at all.  Hackett says the crucible isn't doing anything.  We see otherwise.  Who is telling the truth here?  none of it makes sense.

Wait, wait, wait. Earth is positioned along the up direction not down. Remember that you are standing upside down in respect to e.g. the Presidium's floor, which means the tip of the closed Citadel faces to the outer space while the decision chamber faces Earth.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:56 .

[demersel]

dorktainian wrote...
shepard is stood on the bottom of the citadel.  he is looking up (in theory) at the crucible which as now replaced the beam (in theory) as an energy source for the citadel.  (although to me it's still the beam)  it is upside down.  The citadel is beneath him.  when he jumps he is not jumping towards earth.  he is jumping towards the presidium tower.  when the crudible fires (supposedly) it fires upwards from sheps point of view.  That would mean it firing towards earth, but in the fmv you clearly see the beam fire outwards towards the relay.  now dont get me wrong (an i might be looking at something that isnt there) but that does not make sense at all.  Hackett says the crucible isn't doing anything.  We see otherwise.  Who is telling the truth here?  none of it makes sense.

No i think you got it wrong a bit. When crucible fire it fires THROUGH the presidium tower, using it as barrel of sorts, while the point where shepard is is more like the chamber of the gun. 

Modifié par demersel, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[OneWithTheAssassins]

demersel wrote...

Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

Restrider, I didn't ignore it. It is just i find that there isn't actualy anything to discuss about the CW ep3.

And any discussion on CW is pointless until they say what they have to say in full, since they refuse to have it anyother way. And I really doubt, that they will have it even then - They'll just say - everything we had to say on the subject are in our videos - if you don't get - watch it again. 

What do you think of the Cortez' stuff? He actually said a similar thing after the Firebase Giant mission. That he turned off the accoustic emulators and watched the Cerberus Cruiser get blown to pieces silently.

I think that it is a nice detail. 

but again it does not prove one way or the other. 

THere was this series - Life on Mars, where a London police detective gets hit by a car and comes to into 1972 for some reason - where he is also a cop. 

Full Spoilers ahaed

So he start ot suspect that everything he sees is not real and instead he is just in a coma -  and dreams it all - so he wants to wake up - and to do that he thinks he need to jump of the roof - kill himself - but some pretty woman finds him and talks him out of it. You know how? When she comes to him and takes his hand - he is surprised, cause he can feel sand on her palm. 
He ask - how come there is sand on your palm??
- I was in such a hyrry to reach you in time to stop you, so i fell, while running the stairs up - and when i fell i got my hand dipped into and fire bucket with sand. 
- If this is all a dream why would i dream such a detail? That is nonesense. 

And he doesn't jump. 
Later in the show it turnes out he was in a coma and dreaming it all. 

Awesome show! Although I've only seen the american verison (and have it all on dvd).

[Restrider]

demersel wrote...

I think that it is a nice detail. 

but again it does not prove one way or the other. 

THere was this series - Life on Mars, where a London police detective gets hit by a car and comes to into 1972 for some reason - where he is also a cop. 

Full Spoilers ahaed

So he start ot suspect that everything he sees is not real and instead he is just in a coma -  and dreams it all - so he wants to wake up - and to do that he thinks he need to jump of the roof - kill himself - but some pretty woman finds him and talks him out of it. You know how? When she comes to him and takes his hand - he is surprised, cause he can feel sand on her palm. 
He ask - how come there is sand on your palm??
- I was in such a hyrry to reach you in time to stop you, so i fell, while running the stairs up - and when i fell i got my hand dipped into and fire bucket with sand. 
- If this is all a dream why would i dream such a detail? That is nonesense. 

And he doesn't jump. 
Later in the show it turnes out he was in a coma and dreaming it all. 

My remarks about these little details that show consistency in the lore have nothing to do with hallucination or not rather than being an example for the fact that BW actually does put effort into the game's lore!
I put that there since a few pages back Hanar and someone else were ranting like crazy about how BW butchered the franchise and did not pay attention to science etc. (you know what I mean).
Since BW even explains this common mistake in sci-fi (it is in Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Star Craft, Firefly,...) that is consistent with the lore. Do you really think they suck that much?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Restrider wrote...

Since it was utterly ignored...

Restrider wrote...

Ignoring the troll savagery now.

I'd like to talk about CW3:
First of all the production is of high quality as usual. I also did like the different chapters except the QEC topic for several points I will elaborate in the following list:

1) The concept of QEC was introduced to us in ME2 and was supposedly present in ME1 (instantaneous connection to the Council for instance). Thus we can assume that this technology has been improved during three years. It is stated that the communication is point-to-point, but that only applies for each set of entagled particles, and particles are small.
Is it really such a stretch to assume that the ship that was being retro-fitted by the Alliance to become Admiral Anderson's mobile command center has several sets of entagled particles that can communicate to several important places? Here a short list:
  - Admiral Hackett, one of the most important military leaders
  - the Citadel
  - Earth (we can assume that the QEC Anderson uses has been salvaged from the Alliance HQ)

2) QEC might as well be using proxies. I'll show you how this works. Imagine we had two sets of entangled particles that link between Earth HQ and the Normandy and between the Normandy and the Citadel. The guy on Earth - Anderson for instance - transmits his set of information to the Normandy counterpart. That information is then feeded into the second set of entangled pairs to reach the Citadel. Now multiply this kind of proxy communciation with the total number of sets and you can conclude that the conference calls with Hackett and Anderson are not impossible!

3) Interference. It is correct that direct QEC cannot be intercepted and there cannot be any interference. But the first messages sent do not have to be typical QEC point-to-point exclusively. There might be standard communication in-between (like sending a normal transmission from Hackett's ship to a communication hub with several entangled sets, which will then link to the Normandy via QEC). So, the interference part might happen before the QEC part is involved.
Maybe Hackett's ship is just in bad shape due to the recent battle. It's like blaming a poor Skype performance on the glass fibre while in reality your microphone is just ****ty.

4) Blue holograms and hexagonal texture. Firstly hexagonal texture is all over the place. I am not talking about ME right now. It is a fancy texture used in a lot in gaming lately. I've seen it a lot in ME, in SC2 and other sci-fi related entertainment.
Anyway, to the more important stuff. The use of a blue hologram does not automatically mean that it is QEC. It's like saying that while using Skype you will always have a red filter over your video chat when using WiFi or a blue filter when using cable. Does this sound silly to you? Well, it is a fitting analogy!
It is save to assume that communcation in the London FOB was not through QEC since most of the squadmates were in London (the only exception being Jacob, who is guarding the Crucible afaik, I'll give you that oddity).
Furthermore, the use of blue holograms rather than a fully colored hologram is advantegous due to the accessable band width.

In conclusion: 
I will admit that not every explanation I made is perfect, but I am certain that the whole fuss about the QEC is just futile and leads no where. I have tried to address all core points that indicate that there might be something off with the QEC and to me, most of it is plausible (with minor exceptions that were implemented due to convenience [on the other hand, they could've just easily skipped Jacob in the FOB]).

Edit:
Did you know that the sound in space is actually a simulation for observers/pilots/crews? Cortez mentions this.
Even sound in space - a common convenience scientifically totally wrong in most sci-fi movies/games - is explained in ME and people still spout around that BW does not care about science.

Really good points, especially the bit about blue Holograms I have been saying for a while now. I mean Holograms come in any shape or form in Mass Effect so they need not at all be tied to QEC. That would be like saying the Council is using QEC when contacting Shepard on the Citadel in ME2 (if you saved them in ME1 else they wont speak to you at all).

But yeah the Normandy was beeing retrofitted to be a Command ship for the supreme leader of Earths military forces. I think there is a good bet he would want QEC to a number of places.

Still interesting though that he does not use QEC for the communication as we go to Mars...though that might be because he sent the message prior to us actauly seeing it. Like he sent it as the Reapers hit his fleet and as he is in full retreat and saving what he can he is not in a position to go on the QEC and talk to Shepard in person instead opting for a message which the Normandy can pick up and act upon while he can focus on saving what is left of the fleet.

[Norlond]

So we're up to 9 writers and 3 composers for the unknown DLC? *thinker pose*

Oh and China wants to grow vegetables on moon and mars

Modifié par Norlond, 04 décembre 2012 - 09:12 .

[demersel]

Restrider wrote...

My remarks about these little details that show consistency in the lore have nothing to do with hallucination or not rather than being an example for the fact that BW actually does put effort into the game's lore!
I put that there since a few pages back Hanar and someone else were ranting like crazy about how BW butchered the franchise and did not pay attention to science etc. (you know what I mean).
Since BW even explains this common mistake in sci-fi (it is in Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Star Craft, Firefly,...) that is consistent with the lore. Do you really think they suck that much?

I don't think they suck at all. In fact i think that they are really masters at what they do, and the amount of attention to even the smallest details leaves me in awe. 

As i said - it is a very nice detail. 

But the fact of it being there does not disprove the notion that the whole thing might be an illusion. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Norlond wrote...

So we're up to 9 writers and 3 composers for the unknown DLC? *thinker pose*

Now we just need the voice actors for Harbinger, TIM and the entire squad to chime in and I think we should be golden

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 04 décembre 2012 - 09:09 .

[demersel]

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Awesome show! Although I've only seen the american verison (and have it all on dvd).

Shame on you! There is only the original british version to go by. 


We even have a version of it here in russia - It is called "the far side of the moon" - but it really sucks. 

[paxxton]

Norlond wrote...

So we're up to 9 writers and 3 composers for the unknown DLC? *thinker pose*

Oh and China wants to grow vegetables on moon and mars

What?

[Restrider]

demersel wrote...

Restrider wrote...

My remarks about these little details that show consistency in the lore have nothing to do with hallucination or not rather than being an example for the fact that BW actually does put effort into the game's lore!
I put that there since a few pages back Hanar and someone else were ranting like crazy about how BW butchered the franchise and did not pay attention to science etc. (you know what I mean).
Since BW even explains this common mistake in sci-fi (it is in Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Star Craft, Firefly,...) that is consistent with the lore. Do you really think they suck that much?

I don't think they suck at all. In fact i think that they are really masters at what they do, and the amount of attention to even the smallest details leaves me in awe. 

As i said - it is a very nice detail. 

But the fact of it being there does not disprove the notion that the whole thing might be an illusion. 

It was not directed to you, don't get me wrong. It was directed to all those bickering.

[Restrider]

paxxton wrote...

Norlond wrote...

So we're up to 9 writers and 3 composers for the unknown DLC? *thinker pose*

Oh and China wants to grow vegetables on moon and mars

What?

I haven't heard yet? Good farming land is scarce and expensive...

[dorktainian]

demersel wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
shepard is stood on the bottom of the citadel.  he is looking up (in theory) at the crucible which as now replaced the beam (in theory) as an energy source for the citadel.  (although to me it's still the beam)  it is upside down.  The citadel is beneath him.  when he jumps he is not jumping towards earth.  he is jumping towards the presidium tower.  when the crudible fires (supposedly) it fires upwards from sheps point of view.  That would mean it firing towards earth, but in the fmv you clearly see the beam fire outwards towards the relay.  now dont get me wrong (an i might be looking at something that isnt there) but that does not make sense at all.  Hackett says the crucible isn't doing anything.  We see otherwise.  Who is telling the truth here?  none of it makes sense.

No i think you got it wrong a bit. When crucible fire it fires THROUGH the presidium tower, using it as barrel of sorts, while the point where shepard is is more like the chamber of the gun. 

 

this one here clearly shows that the crudible has broken away from the tower

 

also more here..  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12261111

[demersel]

Dorktanian - no it doesn't - the crucible never really touched the tower in the first place. The thing on side of it is just the thing on the side. The crucible is still in place.

[umadcommander]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Norlond wrote...

So we're up to 9 writers and 3 composers for the unknown DLC? *thinker pose*

Now we just need the voice actors for Harbinger, TIM and the entire squad to chime in and I think we should be golden

ha, imagine the response to that news

[demersel]

umadcommander wrote...

ha, imagine the response to that news

I think it is a safe bet that the most common would be "Does this prove the IT?"

[dorktainian]

demersel wrote...

Dorktanian - no it doesn't - the crucible never really touched the tower in the first place. The thing on side of it is just the thing on the side. The crucible is still in place.

 ok... btw did you look at the link?

[CoolioThane]

I am really looking forward to the 9 writers DLC and 3 composers.

It truly sounds like it could be the reveal we've been waiting for all these months.

[demersel]

dorktainian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Dorktanian - no it doesn't - the crucible never really touched the tower in the first place. The thing on side of it is just the thing on the side. The crucible is still in place.

 ok... btw did you look at the link?

Yes i did - I glanced it through - as far as i could tell there are elements that the levels consist of are presented, right? 

[umadcommander]

demersel wrote...

umadcommander wrote...

ha, imagine the response to that news

I think it is a safe bet that the most common would be "Does this prove the IT?"

well it damn well wouldnt hurt the theory 
top again? my lucky day

Modifié par umadcommander, 04 décembre 2012 - 09:25 .

[Eryri]

Restrider wrote...

Since it was utterly ignored...

Restrider wrote...

Ignoring the troll savagery now.

I'd like to talk about CW3:
First of all the production is of high quality as usual. I also did like the different chapters except the QEC topic for several points I will elaborate in the following list:

1) The concept of QEC was introduced to us in ME2 and was supposedly present in ME1 (instantaneous connection to the Council for instance). Thus we can assume that this technology has been improved during three years. It is stated that the communication is point-to-point, but that only applies for each set of entagled particles, and particles are small.
Is it really such a stretch to assume that the ship that was being retro-fitted by the Alliance to become Admiral Anderson's mobile command center has several sets of entagled particles that can communicate to several important places? Here a short list:
  - Admiral Hackett, one of the most important military leaders
  - the Citadel
  - Earth (we can assume that the QEC Anderson uses has been salvaged from the Alliance HQ)

2) QEC might as well be using proxies. I'll show you how this works. Imagine we had two sets of entangled particles that link between Earth HQ and the Normandy and between the Normandy and the Citadel. The guy on Earth - Anderson for instance - transmits his set of information to the Normandy counterpart. That information is then feeded into the second set of entangled pairs to reach the Citadel. Now multiply this kind of proxy communciation with the total number of sets and you can conclude that the conference calls with Hackett and Anderson are not impossible!

3) Interference. It is correct that direct QEC cannot be intercepted and there cannot be any interference. But the first messages sent do not have to be typical QEC point-to-point exclusively. There might be standard communication in-between (like sending a normal transmission from Hackett's ship to a communication hub with several entangled sets, which will then link to the Normandy via QEC). So, the interference part might happen before the QEC part is involved.
Maybe Hackett's ship is just in bad shape due to the recent battle. It's like blaming a poor Skype performance on the glass fibre while in reality your microphone is just ****ty.

4) Blue holograms and hexagonal texture. Firstly hexagonal texture is all over the place. I am not talking about ME right now. It is a fancy texture used in a lot in gaming lately. I've seen it a lot in ME, in SC2 and other sci-fi related entertainment.
Anyway, to the more important stuff. The use of a blue hologram does not automatically mean that it is QEC. It's like saying that while using Skype you will always have a red filter over your video chat when using WiFi or a blue filter when using cable. Does this sound silly to you? Well, it is a fitting analogy!
It is save to assume that communcation in the London FOB was not through QEC since most of the squadmates were in London (the only exception being Jacob, who is guarding the Crucible afaik, I'll give you that oddity).
Furthermore, the use of blue holograms rather than a fully colored hologram is advantegous due to the accessable band width.

In conclusion: 
I will admit that not every explanation I made is perfect, but I am certain that the whole fuss about the QEC is just futile and leads no where. I have tried to address all core points that indicate that there might be something off with the QEC and to me, most of it is plausible (with minor exceptions that were implemented due to convenience [on the other hand, they could've just easily skipped Jacob in the FOB]).

Edit:
Did you know that the sound in space is actually a simulation for observers/pilots/crews? Cortez mentions this.
Even sound in space - a common convenience scientifically totally wrong in most sci-fi movies/games - is explained in ME and people still spout around that BW does not care about science.

Very interesting post. I had absolutely no clue about the acoustic simulation thing for sounds in space, and I feel a right idiot for having missed it. The fact that they actually went to the trouble of including a dialogue scene to cover this, has immediately raised my (already pretty high) level of respect for the writing team. Kudos Bioware!

Modifié par Eryri, 04 décembre 2012 - 09:32 .