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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!

Débuté par byne , juil. 30 2012 07:09

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#58801
Lokanaiya
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:42

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CoolioThane wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Also, fellow ITers, if we find out that the developers said that there is no canon Shepard or that your personal Shepard takes precedence over any canon Shepard, how about we just accept that we're wrong and move on? Come on guys, we pride ourselves on being the intellectual ones who look at the facts and not our feelings to determine what the answer is. How about we act like it?


I was already aware of the quotes.

DLC is canon. Fact. 


There are two quotes that prove that position wrong. If you want to prove it right, it would probably be best to go out and find a quote that supports your views.

#58802
CoolioThane
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:42

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Director of Marketing David Silverman says BioWare doesn't have a "canon" version of the hero: "The beautiful thing about the Mass Effect series is the fact that the player gets to make choices that actually impact the game and make their entire game experience unique to them."

Source: http://www.joystiq.c...hero-18-play-f/


Owned.

Can we finally stop this debate now and all accept that there is no canon Shepard? Yes? Good.


Lol "owned"

Not really. As I said, I know of the quotes. 

But as I'll say again, they can't say anything else. Anyone with a brain knows DLC is canon, as there'd be no point making it if they didn't intend that. 

But as byne says, and you truly refuse to be intelligent, all this Extended Cut disproves IT is not truly true...

#58803
Home run MF
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:42

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With less than 9 months on the calendar, and little indication of how much creative control the DLC creators have had with respect to affecting the storyline of the upcoming chapter in the sci-fi epic, it might only have side-quest levels of consequences in the end. (Mass Effect 3 designer Manveer Heir has since told me that Arrival's story "was driven/approved by the head writer so it's all canon & relevant.")

Source: http://www.destructo...lc-197513.phtml

#58804
ThisOneIsPunny
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:42

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 We’ve got multiplayer stuff, we’ve got DLC, we’ve got the larger galaxy at war stuff. We’ll be supporting that. We’ve got some really awesome DLC stuff that we’re doing. 


 

To some degree, we need to see how people respond to Mass Effect 3 and what they’re hoping to see in the future.


;)

Modifié par ThisOneIsPunny, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:45 .

#58805
CoolioThane
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:43

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Lokanaiya wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Also, fellow ITers, if we find out that the developers said that there is no canon Shepard or that your personal Shepard takes precedence over any canon Shepard, how about we just accept that we're wrong and move on? Come on guys, we pride ourselves on being the intellectual ones who look at the facts and not our feelings to determine what the answer is. How about we act like it?


I was already aware of the quotes.

DLC is canon. Fact. 


There are two quotes that prove that position wrong. If you want to prove it right, it would probably be best to go out and find a quote that supports your views.


I do not have to have quotes to know DLC is canon. The fact it exists is enough.

#58806
MegumiAzusa
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:44

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CoolioThane wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


The Word of God said that whenever a novel and your Shepards story are in conflict, your Shepards story is to be considered canon and the novel isn't.


So Word of God once again proves me right. You're just talking crap out of your ass, again.


Like I said 3 pages ago: End of Debate.


No. Once again, they are forced to say that to cater for retards who would moan and scream "NEEEEEEEEEOAFHSOFHFH" because their Shepard died in the Suicide Mission. Get a grip. In Bioware's eyes all DLC is canon.

If you really want to go that way... You can say the same about IT... just saying.


Except, we wouldn't scream or moan, as we're not mentally retarded.

Riiight. That clearly proves your point, how could I forget about all the screaming people I heard as they killed their Shep :/ that were bad times, you couldn't even walk through the city without seeing someone screaming because of that like a madman :o

#58807
The Heretic of Time
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:44

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CoolioThane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Director of Marketing David Silverman says BioWare doesn't have a "canon" version of the hero: "The beautiful thing about the Mass Effect series is the fact that the player gets to make choices that actually impact the game and make their entire game experience unique to them."

Source: http://www.joystiq.c...hero-18-play-f/


Owned.

Can we finally stop this debate now and all accept that there is no canon Shepard? Yes? Good.


Lol "owned"

Not really. As I said, I know of the quotes. 

But as I'll say again, they can't say anything else. Anyone with a brain knows DLC is canon, as there'd be no point making it if they didn't intend that. 


Ah so you're now actively admitting you're simply sticking your head in the sand and denying the facts?

Okay, well, there is no point in debating with someone who's completely in denial and even admits to be so.


LMAO! Thanks for playing kid. I win. Goodbye. :)

#58808
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:44

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CoolioThane wrote...

DLC + Books (Deception is hilarious though) + Comics = Canon

I thought I'd never have to try and explain this again after SubAstris

End of


Total Canon (it happened. Game might pretend its ok that it didn't, but it pretty much breaks the narrative/lore otherwise):
-Arrival
-Shadow Broker
-From Ashes (kinda)

Near Total Canon (can treat as non-canon, but you know, really, it happened, so yeah):
-Leviathan
-Omega (Levi and Omega are still up in the air)
-Bring Down the Sky
-Zaeed
-Kasumi

Optional Canon (can ignore, but would be good to still take account of):
-Pinnacle Station
-Overlord
-Firewalker

IMO

#58809
Lokanaiya
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:47

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What's the latest quote regarding DLC as canon? I think that would count as Bioware's current official position on the issue.

#58810
CoolioThane
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:48

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...



Ah so you're now actively admitting you're simply sticking your head in the sand and denying the facts?

Okay, well, there is no point in debating with someone who's completely in denial and even admits to be so.


LMAO! Thanks for playing kid. I win. Goodbye. :)


No. I can read between lines and also lines themselves if you look up a few posts to see HomeRun's quote and all, but I didn't need that to know I am right.

Thanks for playing? I'm not playing anything, I'm just living. If you have to turn everything into a competition I'd imagine it's because you have to make things into a victory for yourself. It's clever, as you'll never admit you're wrong, so you will never lose.

I feel bad for you though, something must be up with you for you to seek these "victories" that aren't even victories, and at the end of it all, you need to remember you are on a video game discussion board claiming a victory that doesn't exist ...wow

#58811
MWMike2011
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:49

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Whoa, been gone a day and now we are arguing about DLC being canon? Someone fill me in, I was under the impression if it came from BioWare or the writers, it was considered canon. Books, comics, DLC, games, all of it...

#58812
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:49

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archangel1996 wrote...

byne wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

byne wrote...

Since the comics are canon, if your shep didnt do Arrival, you're technically playing a non-canon Shep.


Well, i don't think it is this way
 Aria and Liara's comics, for example, are canon, because we do not control them, with Shep is different


Its not even a comic about Shep. Its about Vega. It just mentions Shep blew up the Relay.

Its like the entire reason Vega is guarding Shep.

Without Arrival Vega has no reason to be there.


Yeah, i know
Well i still think that the comics are just canon for someone, for someone else they are not, it doesn't change the fact that everyone story is canon......anyway i have Arrival B)



I consider ShepLoo canon to be the closest to 'Canon' we're going to get for the general template for Shepard's journey.

Bioware just doesn't want to prescribe a story to us. They're perfectly fine with having some Shepards fumble in the dark, or act in totally counterintuitive ways, as it just makes flaws (and therefore more interesting story elements) in the character.

In the IT sense, betraying Mordin and Wrex in ME3 is very Saren-like and while it doesn't fit a more heroic story, it illustrates how far down the dark side Shepard has (or rather CAN) come.
But it happens in Paragon too - being pure Paragon takes you down the 'light side', but can strongly blind you to what is happening in Shepard's mind. You're so focused on saving everyone and getting a 'good ending' that you lose sight of the darkness that exists.

So sure, a more canon story IS curing the genophage through Charm of Intimidation, but Bioware occasionally allows branching off so that we:
1)Get variety
2)Get some illustrative scenarios that teach us something new

#58813
Lokanaiya
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:50

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CoolioThane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...



Ah so you're now actively admitting you're simply sticking your head in the sand and denying the facts?

Okay, well, there is no point in debating with someone who's completely in denial and even admits to be so.


LMAO! Thanks for playing kid. I win. Goodbye. :)


No. I can read between lines and also lines themselves if you look up a few posts to see HomeRun's quote and all, but I didn't need that to know I am right.

Thanks for playing? I'm not playing anything, I'm just living. If you have to turn everything into a competition I'd imagine it's because you have to make things into a victory for yourself. It's clever, as you'll never admit you're wrong, so you will never lose.

I feel bad for you though, something must be up with you for you to seek these "victories" that aren't even victories, and at the end of it all, you need to remember you are on a video game discussion board claiming a victory that doesn't exist ...wow


So, just to be sure, your argument is basically "It's obvious, i don't need to prove it?"

#58814
CoolioThane
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:51

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Riiight. That clearly proves your point, how could I forget about all the screaming people I heard as they killed their Shep :/ that were bad times, you couldn't even walk through the city without seeing someone screaming because of that like a madman :o


Ha. You literalists (;)) seem to literally take everything literally. Who knew

#58815
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:51

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Oh to clarify, I consider full ShepLoo canon to be throughout ALL 3 games.

Not the default Shep of ME2 or ME3.

The default Shep of especially ME3 is blind as a bat, narratively. He, and the likely newbie player, is supposed to be blind to the lessons and characters of previous games, and therefore more likely to pick either Synth/Control out of ignorance ;), or Destroy out of blind shooter mentality. Either way Bioware wins and gets plenty of players to pick all of the endings.

#58816
The Heretic of Time
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:52

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CoolioThane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...



Ah so you're now actively admitting you're simply sticking your head in the sand and denying the facts?

Okay, well, there is no point in debating with someone who's completely in denial and even admits to be so.


LMAO! Thanks for playing kid. I win. Goodbye. :)


No. I can read between lines and also lines themselves if you look up a few posts to see HomeRun's quote and all, but I didn't need that to know I am right.

Thanks for playing? I'm not playing anything, I'm just living. If you have to turn everything into a competition I'd imagine it's because you have to make things into a victory for yourself. It's clever, as you'll never admit you're wrong, so you will never lose.

I feel bad for you though, something must be up with you for you to seek these "victories" that aren't even victories, and at the end of it all, you need to remember you are on a video game discussion board claiming a victory that doesn't exist ...wow


Nice try, but at least I'm not in denial. And I'm still right. I still win.:)

EPIC-WINNING! :D

#58817
CoolioThane
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:53

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Lokanaiya wrote...


So, just to be sure, your argument is basically "It's obvious, i don't need to prove it?"


Want to pick and choose that post some more? 

If you want the proof look at the quote. All I am saying is that quote wasn't needed for me to know the DLC is canon. It exists. It is canon.

#58818
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:53

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MWMike2011 wrote...

Whoa, been gone a day and now we are arguing about DLC being canon? Someone fill me in, I was under the impression if it came from BioWare or the writers, it was considered canon. Books, comics, DLC, games, all of it...


I consider all material to be canon unless there is clear contradiction between sources (ME: Deception, for example), and in that case its still not tossed out, but instead is just debatable.

DLC is all canon but the writers allow the player to ignore it if they wish. ME3 doesn't make any sort of sense if Arrival isn't canon, but they don't erase it happening - they instead say you've done some vague act(s).

Bioware considers LotSB and Arrival to be bridging story DLC, so it pretty much, yes, happened.

#58819
CoolioThane
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:55

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...



Ah so you're now actively admitting you're simply sticking your head in the sand and denying the facts?

Okay, well, there is no point in debating with someone who's completely in denial and even admits to be so.


LMAO! Thanks for playing kid. I win. Goodbye. :)


No. I can read between lines and also lines themselves if you look up a few posts to see HomeRun's quote and all, but I didn't need that to know I am right.

Thanks for playing? I'm not playing anything, I'm just living. If you have to turn everything into a competition I'd imagine it's because you have to make things into a victory for yourself. It's clever, as you'll never admit you're wrong, so you will never lose.

I feel bad for you though, something must be up with you for you to seek these "victories" that aren't even victories, and at the end of it all, you need to remember you are on a video game discussion board claiming a victory that doesn't exist ...wow


Nice try, but at least I'm not in denial. And I'm still right. I still win.:)

EPIC-WINNING! :D


I'm not in denial (aha). Though you're not right. You can say you win though; I'd hate for you to feel upset.

#58820
MegumiAzusa
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:56

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CoolioThane wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...


So, just to be sure, your argument is basically "It's obvious, i don't need to prove it?"


Want to pick and choose that post some more? 

If you want the proof look at the quote. All I am saying is that quote wasn't needed for me to know the DLC is canon. It exists. It is canon.

Let me help you and rephrase it in one and clear to understand word: yes.

#58821
The Heretic of Time
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:56

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CoolioThane wrote...

I'm not in denial (aha). Though you're not right. You can say you win though; I'd hate for you to feel upset.


Yes you are in denial. You deny the Word of God. You claim to know it better. You fail to provide proof your your delusional point of view, whil I have 2 quotes proving my point of view.

The scoreboard says 2-0 at the moment. 2 for Hanar, 0 for Thane.

#58822
The Heretic of Time
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 01:59

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SwobyJ wrote...

Bioware considers LotSB and Arrival to be bridging story DLC, so it pretty much, yes, happened.



Happened? Yes.

Did Shepard participate in those events? Only if you played them.


Are the events in themselves canon? Yes.

Is Shepard participating in those events canon? No.

#58823
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 02:00

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I think people mistaken Shep canon for Bioware canon.

If your Shepard didn't do Arrival, then of course he didn't do anything in it.

The narrative progression treats things as though you did it, even if the specific details don't.

If Hellish somehow thinks that Arrival is some big point where Shepard starts a dream and all of ME3 is that dream, then I'll have to disagree with him big time.

All Arrival is, imo, is an illustrative DLC. Shep doesn't even need to be indoctrinated there.

#58824
byne
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 02:00

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Considering both sides produced quotes supporting their positions, I'd call the argument a tie.

Though I did get Hanar to admit that the EC cant disprove IT because it is not canon, which is nice.

I am on top, that makes me correct.

Modifié par byne, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:01 .

#58825
CoolioThane
Posté 05 décembre 2012 - 02:01

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I'm not in denial (aha). Though you're not right. You can say you win though; I'd hate for you to feel upset.


Yes you are in denial. You deny the Word of God. You claim to know it better. You fail to provide proof your your delusional point of view, whil I have 2 quotes proving my point of view.

The scoreboard says 2-0 at the moment. 2 for Hanar, 0 for Thane.


Scoreboards? Do you genuinely have deep lying issues you'd like to talk about? I'm a trained counsellor if you ever need to chat.

Denying the word of God? No, reading past the words of a known liar maybe. Not being blind to the background.

Again, does the quote HomeRun post not count? 

But then that would mean 2-1...though who's to say how words of God are ranked?

I do not claim to know "it" better, I just know I'm right :) 
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