80611 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BioWare underoverestimated the intelligence of the collective player and had to release the EC to camouflage their real goals.

I think you meant this

Obviously! Everybody but the ITers are just weak-minded idiots, right?

Kind of. Non-ITers generally fall into two camps:

Those who failed to understand the themes and morals of the series, as well as subtleties like symbolism and metaphor. This is not difficult stuff, I have no respect for these people.

Those who don't think Bioware is good enough to create IT, and/or don't think they'll follow through with it. They're wrong, but I can respect their beliefs.

Glad to hear you respect my beliefs (yes, I mostly fall in the 2nd category). Glad you also understand that "they're wrong" is just your opinion.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:33 .

[estebanus]

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BioWare underoverestimated the intelligence of the collective player and had to release the EC to camouflage their real goals.

I think you meant this

Obviously! Everybody but the ITers are just weak-minded idiots, right?

Yeah, they go things like start rumors about Merizan saying synthesis is canon.

Oh no wait, that's you.

I have never said something like that. It was my sister, and she totally misunderstood my words. I said that when I talked to her, Merizan said that she thinks that synthesis is the best ending of them all, not that synthesis is canon either way. The fault of the issue lies not with me, but with my sister. If I could, I would tell her to tell you that she misquoted my words. However, she's not. She's in Cyprus, and will be there until christmas.

[BleedingUranium]

LordMarrick wrote...

I can't see why this theory gets so much love, its basically wanting the ending to not be an ending but to be something the worlds most paranoid people would look at and wonder "what are you thinking?"

You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

LordMarrick wrote...

I can't see why this theory gets so much love, its basically wanting the ending to not be an ending but to be something the worlds most paranoid people would look at and wonder "what are you thinking?"

You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending. You can't believe that your favorite game-developer, who's supposed to be writing geniusses (I still wonder how they ever got that reputation), simply f*cked up.

[estebanus]

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BioWare underoverestimated the intelligence of the collective player and had to release the EC to camouflage their real goals.

I think you meant this

Obviously! Everybody but the ITers are just weak-minded idiots, right?

Kind of. Non-ITers generally fall into two camps:

Those who failed to understand the themes and morals of the series, as well as subtleties like symbolism and metaphor. This is not difficult stuff, I have no respect for these people.

Those who don't think Bioware is good enough to create IT, and/or don't think they'll follow through with it. They're wrong, but I can respect their beliefs.

And you generalizing them makes you so much better than everybody else, that it? You see? This is the exact reason why so many people think that ITers are so totally arrogant! Many of them call everybody else but them stupid and weak-minded, and even openly admit it!

The most people who view the IT as valid but not true also aren't the ones talking about it, since there's no reason to do so. You can't at all give an accurate estimate of how many literalists believe what about the theory. 

[CoolioThane]

Hanar are you arguing again that the IT makes no sense because of IT?

This is like the hundredth time. Does one not get bored repeating the same arguments that we care little for?

[DoomsdayDevice]

So Hanar, question.

What would you do if IT were revealed to be true?

(Not saying this upcoming DLC is it, just hypothetically speaking)

Would you...

1. Apologize for all the rude behaviour, admit you were wrong and congratulate us for figuring it out?
2. Silently disappear from BSN?
3. Go ape**** about Bioware adopting a 'fanmade theory'?

(And don't tell me they will never reveal it, I'd like to know what you would do IF...)

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:37 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...
You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending. You can't believe that your favorite game-developer, who's supposed to be writing geniusses (I still wonder how they ever got that reputation), simply f*cked up.

Actually, we didn't invent the Indoctrination Theory.  Bioware did, through their use of Indoctrination as a plot device and the hints and clues they scattered throughout the game.

[dreamgazer]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Kind of. Non-ITers generally fall into two camps:

Those who failed to understand the themes and morals of the series, as well as subtleties like symbolism and metaphor. This is not difficult stuff, I have no respect for these people.

Those who don't think Bioware is good enough to create IT, and/or don't think they'll follow through with it. They're wrong, but I can respect their beliefs.

I'm extremely well-conditioned to symbolism, I still think BioWare has decent-enough writers to come up with the unrefined core of the theory (not all the dubious bits of "evidence"), and even I heavily doubt that they'd shank the fan-base with a decision-negating reveal at this point.

A few months out, perhaps with the EC, would've been interesting in a NWN sort of way; it would've given players some time to debate and bicker as a type of "performance art", then brought the hammer down while that topical iron was hot. Now, after Leviathan and Omega? I think it's completely in the hands of those interpreting, and I do think some of that thematic interpretation---alongside the dreams and the catalyst taking the shape of the child---was intended.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:44 .

[BleedingUranium]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LordMarrick wrote...

I can't see why this theory gets so much love, its basically wanting the ending to not be an ending but to be something the worlds most paranoid people would look at and wonder "what are you thinking?"

You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending. You can't believe that your favorite game-developer, who's supposed to be writing geniusses (I still wonder how they ever got that reputation), simply f*cked up.

Fail. We didn't "invent" IT, it always was. It's what I saw the first time I finished the game. No spoilers, never heard of this thread, nothing. I saw the end, and realized shortly afterward that Shepard was being indoctrinated, and that the end was a test.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending.

No. I figured it out on my first playthrough. I was 100% sure the 'control' choice was indoctrinated. I wasn't sure about synthesis, it just sounded ridiculous. An hour later I made the Saren connection and realized that choice was indoctrinated as well. I was glad I picked destroy, because I didn't trust the "catalyst" one bit.

I figured it out before I ever heard about the theory. Friends pointed this place out to me when I shared my theory with them.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[ElSuperGecko]

dreamgazer wrote...
I'm extremely well-conditioned to symbolism, I still think BioWare has decent-enough writers to come up with the unrefined core of the theory (not all the dubious bits of "evidence"), and even I heavy doubt that they'd shank the fan-base with a decision-negating reveal at this point.

A few months out, perhaps with the EC, would've been interesting in a NWN sort of way; it would've given players some time to debate and bicker as a type of "performance art", then brought the hammer down while that topical iron was hot. Now, after Leviathan and Omega? I think it's completely in the hands of those interpreting, and I do think some of that thematic interpretation---alongside the dreams and the catalyst taking the shape of the child---was intended.

Very true - and that's partially why I don't believe we'll ever see a reveal as such one way or another.

I do however believe Bioware will continue to give us context for the existing endings, and we may eventually see a shift in how people percieve them as a result of that.  Levithan was a great example of how they can be telling us something through their DLC without actually going so far as to say it out loud...

[BleedingUranium]

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BioWare underoverestimated the intelligence of the collective player and had to release the EC to camouflage their real goals.

I think you meant this

Obviously! Everybody but the ITers are just weak-minded idiots, right?

Kind of. Non-ITers generally fall into two camps:

Those who failed to understand the themes and morals of the series, as well as subtleties like symbolism and metaphor. This is not difficult stuff, I have no respect for these people.

Those who don't think Bioware is good enough to create IT, and/or don't think they'll follow through with it. They're wrong, but I can respect their beliefs.

And you generalizing them makes you so much better than everybody else, that it? You see? This is the exact reason why so many people think that ITers are so totally arrogant! Many of them call everybody else but them stupid and weak-minded, and even openly admit it!

The most people who view the IT as valid but not true also aren't the ones talking about it, since there's no reason to do so. You can't at all give an accurate estimate of how many literalists believe what about the theory.

"When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong."

I know I'm right, and eventually I'll be able to prove it.

[paxxton]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Again, don't everyone get all exited. Remember when y'all thought EC would be a massive IT reveal?
EDIT::ph34r:Estebanus

Well, it DID give us some nice extra clues and reaffirmed how weird several bits in the ending are.

The EC also fixed a lot of plotholes, or at least it tried to. It also expanded on- and strengthened the literal intepretation of the endings.

The absence of major plotholes doesn't mean it's real. Only appears to be so to some indoctrinated folks.

I'm not talking about the absene of plotholes, I'm talking about FIXING plotholes. That's what the EC did. it fixed a lot of plotholes that were really major from a literal perspective.

To think that BioWare only fixed those plotholes just so they could "indoctrinate" us some more is just plain crazy. 

It's not crazy. You honestly don't think that those who manipulate people announce their motives by saying "People! We are now going to trick you into obeying us!"

You honestly think BioWare would only fix those plotholes just so they could "manipulate" people? Come on, that is  just crazy. 


"Hey guys, we intentionally made the endings ambiguous because we're planning a big IT plot-twist reveal, so lets work on a DLC that will make the endings less ambiguous, answers a lot of questions and fixes a lot of plotholes, so the endings make more sense from a literal perspective! Yes, that totally makes sense! I'm such a genius!" - Casey Hudson

"But Casey... why would you try to answer questions and fix some plotholes with an Extended Cut ending if the endings are intentionally ambiguous because you want to do a IT plot-reveal?" - Mike Gamble

"SHUT UP MIKE! I'm the boss here! We're obviously doing this to manipulate our audience! We'll be the first video-game company to start a cult! We're genius!" - Casey Hudson

"But that doesn't make any sense Casey. If you plan an IT plot-reveal, then why are we not working on that? Why waste time on an Extended Cut that strengthens the literal interpretation of the endings, answers some questions, fixes plotholes and makes the endings less ambiguous? Why not work on the planned IT plot-reveal right away?" - Mike Gamble

"All in due time Mike... all in due time... It is obvious that my genius master plan is far too complex for you. It's not something you can comprehent." - Casey

"Now you're starting to sound like the reapers..." - Mike

"IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN COMPREHENT!" Now get your ass moving! I want that Extended Cut DLC done ASAP!" - Casey

I refer you to the Bible and the Passion of Christ. After suffering there is salvation.

[estebanus]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LordMarrick wrote...

I can't see why this theory gets so much love, its basically wanting the ending to not be an ending but to be something the worlds most paranoid people would look at and wonder "what are you thinking?"

You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending. You can't believe that your favorite game-developer, who's supposed to be writing geniusses (I still wonder how they ever got that reputation), simply f*cked up.

Fail. We didn't "invent" IT, it always was. It's what I saw the first time I finished the game. No spoilers, never heard of this thread, nothing. I saw the end, and realized shortly afterward that Shepard was being indoctrinated, and that the end was a test.

 

It's funny because you yourself just said you invented it.

[Jusseb]

Are there also speculations about any release dates?

Sounds quite promising that next DLC, there pulling all their resources it seems. Maybe our determination and patience will finally be rewarded.

I'll throw in a party then.

Modifié par Jusseb, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:50 .

[BleedingUranium]

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LordMarrick wrote...

I can't see why this theory gets so much love, its basically wanting the ending to not be an ending but to be something the worlds most paranoid people would look at and wonder "what are you thinking?"

You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending. You can't believe that your favorite game-developer, who's supposed to be writing geniusses (I still wonder how they ever got that reputation), simply f*cked up.

Fail. We didn't "invent" IT, it always was. It's what I saw the first time I finished the game. No spoilers, never heard of this thread, nothing. I saw the end, and realized shortly afterward that Shepard was being indoctrinated, and that the end was a test.

 

It's funny because you yourself just said you invented it.

Nope, you misread it the same way he did. The part you underlined is part of the false impression. He's under the false impression that IT was invented and the we didn't like the endings. Those are both incorrect.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:51 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LordMarrick wrote...

I can't see why this theory gets so much love, its basically wanting the ending to not be an ending but to be something the worlds most paranoid people would look at and wonder "what are you thinking?"

You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending. You can't believe that your favorite game-developer, who's supposed to be writing geniusses (I still wonder how they ever got that reputation), simply f*cked up.

Fail. We didn't "invent" IT, it always was. It's what I saw the first time I finished the game. No spoilers, never heard of this thread, nothing. I saw the end, and realized shortly afterward that Shepard was being indoctrinated, and that the end was a test.

 

It's funny because you yourself just said you invented it.

You're funny because he clearly says 'false impression'.

[estebanus]

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BioWare underoverestimated the intelligence of the collective player and had to release the EC to camouflage their real goals.

I think you meant this

Obviously! Everybody but the ITers are just weak-minded idiots, right?

Kind of. Non-ITers generally fall into two camps:

Those who failed to understand the themes and morals of the series, as well as subtleties like symbolism and metaphor. This is not difficult stuff, I have no respect for these people.

Those who don't think Bioware is good enough to create IT, and/or don't think they'll follow through with it. They're wrong, but I can respect their beliefs.

And you generalizing them makes you so much better than everybody else, that it? You see? This is the exact reason why so many people think that ITers are so totally arrogant! Many of them call everybody else but them stupid and weak-minded, and even openly admit it!

The most people who view the IT as valid but not true also aren't the ones talking about it, since there's no reason to do so. You can't at all give an accurate estimate of how many literalists believe what about the theory.

"When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong."

I know I'm right, and eventually I'll be able to prove it.

You know you're right? You follow the IT without a doubt? Yet when literalists say that they know they're right, they're arrogant douches? 

Your quote goes both ways, but I suppose you realize that.

[The Heretic of Time]

paxxton wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You honestly think BioWare would only fix those plotholes just so they could "manipulate" people? Come on, that is  just crazy. 


"Hey guys, we intentionally made the endings ambiguous because we're planning a big IT plot-twist reveal, so lets work on a DLC that will make the endings less ambiguous, answers a lot of questions and fixes a lot of plotholes, so the endings make more sense from a literal perspective! Yes, that totally makes sense! I'm such a genius!" - Casey Hudson

"But Casey... why would you try to answer questions and fix some plotholes with an Extended Cut ending if the endings are intentionally ambiguous because you want to do a IT plot-reveal?" - Mike Gamble

"SHUT UP MIKE! I'm the boss here! We're obviously doing this to manipulate our audience! We'll be the first video-game company to start a cult! We're genius!" - Casey Hudson

"But that doesn't make any sense Casey. If you plan an IT plot-reveal, then why are we not working on that? Why waste time on an Extended Cut that strengthens the literal interpretation of the endings, answers some questions, fixes plotholes and makes the endings less ambiguous? Why not work on the planned IT plot-reveal right away?" - Mike Gamble

"All in due time Mike... all in due time... It is obvious that my genius master plan is far too complex for you. It's not something you can comprehent." - Casey

"Now you're starting to sound like the reapers..." - Mike

"IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN COMPREHENT!" Now get your ass moving! I want that Extended Cut DLC done ASAP!" - Casey

I refer you to the Bible and the Passion of Christ. After suffering there is salvation.

What the f*ck are you talking about?  Are you high Paxxton?

[estebanus]

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LordMarrick wrote...

I can't see why this theory gets so much love, its basically wanting the ending to not be an ending but to be something the worlds most paranoid people would look at and wonder "what are you thinking?"

You seem to be under the false impression that we invented the Indoctrination Theory because we didn't like the endings.

No, you invented the IT because you can't believe BioWare would end their trilogy with such a ridiculous ending. You can't believe that your favorite game-developer, who's supposed to be writing geniusses (I still wonder how they ever got that reputation), simply f*cked up.

Fail. We didn't "invent" IT, it always was. It's what I saw the first time I finished the game. No spoilers, never heard of this thread, nothing. I saw the end, and realized shortly afterward that Shepard was being indoctrinated, and that the end was a test.

 

It's funny because you yourself just said you invented it.

Nope, you misread it the same way he did. The part you underlined is part of the false impression.

If you say so. Could've put it in quotes, though. Would've made it easier to read through.

[BleedingUranium]

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

And you generalizing them makes you so much better than everybody else, that it? You see? This is the exact reason why so many people think that ITers are so totally arrogant! Many of them call everybody else but them stupid and weak-minded, and even openly admit it!

The most people who view the IT as valid but not true also aren't the ones talking about it, since there's no reason to do so. You can't at all give an accurate estimate of how many literalists believe what about the theory.

"When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong."

I know I'm right, and eventually I'll be able to prove it.

You know you're right? You follow the IT without a doubt? Yet when literalists say that they know they're right, they're arrogant douches? 

Your quote goes both ways, but I suppose you realize that.

My confidence is singular.


That was Richard Dawkins, Liara T'Soni, and now Leviathan. I like quotes

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:54 .

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BioWare underoverestimated the intelligence of the collective player and had to release the EC to camouflage their real goals.

I think you meant this

Obviously! Everybody but the ITers are just weak-minded idiots, right?

Kind of. Non-ITers generally fall into two camps:

Those who failed to understand the themes and morals of the series, as well as subtleties like symbolism and metaphor. This is not difficult stuff, I have no respect for these people.

Those who don't think Bioware is good enough to create IT, and/or don't think they'll follow through with it. They're wrong, but I can respect their beliefs.

And you generalizing them makes you so much better than everybody else, that it? You see? This is the exact reason why so many people think that ITers are so totally arrogant! Many of them call everybody else but them stupid and weak-minded, and even openly admit it!

The most people who view the IT as valid but not true also aren't the ones talking about it, since there's no reason to do so. You can't at all give an accurate estimate of how many literalists believe what about the theory.

"When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong."

You do understand the irony in this right?

I know I'm right, and eventually I'll be able to prove it.

As long as you can't prove it you also can't know you're right. You have no proof, therefor you can't know  you're right. You simply believe  you're right. Big difference.

[paxxton]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You honestly think BioWare would only fix those plotholes just so they could "manipulate" people? Come on, that is  just crazy. 


"Hey guys, we intentionally made the endings ambiguous because we're planning a big IT plot-twist reveal, so lets work on a DLC that will make the endings less ambiguous, answers a lot of questions and fixes a lot of plotholes, so the endings make more sense from a literal perspective! Yes, that totally makes sense! I'm such a genius!" - Casey Hudson

"But Casey... why would you try to answer questions and fix some plotholes with an Extended Cut ending if the endings are intentionally ambiguous because you want to do a IT plot-reveal?" - Mike Gamble

"SHUT UP MIKE! I'm the boss here! We're obviously doing this to manipulate our audience! We'll be the first video-game company to start a cult! We're genius!" - Casey Hudson

"But that doesn't make any sense Casey. If you plan an IT plot-reveal, then why are we not working on that? Why waste time on an Extended Cut that strengthens the literal interpretation of the endings, answers some questions, fixes plotholes and makes the endings less ambiguous? Why not work on the planned IT plot-reveal right away?" - Mike Gamble

"All in due time Mike... all in due time... It is obvious that my genius master plan is far too complex for you. It's not something you can comprehent." - Casey

"Now you're starting to sound like the reapers..." - Mike

"IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN COMPREHENT!" Now get your ass moving! I want that Extended Cut DLC done ASAP!" - Casey

I refer you to the Bible and the Passion of Christ. After suffering there is salvation.

What the f*ck are you talking about?  Are you high Paxxton?

Nope.

Just that after enduring months of uncertainty and ambiguity we will be rewarded with a glorious reveal of the Indoctrination Theory. Amen.

EDIT: Heavenly top.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:57 .

[smokingotter1]

Matriach Benezia: "It was a terror to be trapped in your mind, to beat upon the glass as your hands torture and murder, I was powerless, nothing but a tool for Saren"









“I sealed a part of my mind away from indoctrination, saving
it for a moment when I can help destroy him, it will not last long.”

To protect some part of herself Benezia had to create a haven in her mind free of the influence of....




Indoctrination.



Dream planet stands in stark contrast to Shepard's nightmares:
Night/Day
Dead forest/lush forest
Oily shadows, whispers from dead crew members/Shepards crew alive, no whispers
Cloudy sky/Clear sky

It's symbolic that the Normandy is trapped on dream planet, could be an analogy to Shepard being trapped in his mind. No matter what choice you make the dream planet scene happens. Only difference is in control Shepard wakes up.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:57 .