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[CoolioThane]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...



I honestly feel sorry for you. No really, I honestly do.

I don't need your pity.

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
What the... I can't believe what I'm readning here. "Literal Theory"?  There is no such thing as a "Literal Theory".

My mistake, I forgot your view of the game is fact.

It's an interpretation, not a theory. Everything is considered real by default, until more information comes to change that view.

THANK YOU!

[Wowky]

I for one really hope that once the DLC cycle ends there is a big IT reveal, or at least it becomes so blatantly obvious that IT is accurate that they don't even need to say "tada! IT is real!", or conversely they totally shut IT down with a big reveal that says "nope, it's not right" or similar blatantly obvious but not explicitly stated approach, because frankly this whole not knowing is just killing me. I don't know what to believe anymore

Modifié par Wowky, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:40 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You can prove evolution, but you can't prove IT, because in this case, there is a god. That god is BioWare. The only way to know that IT is right is by "god" saying so. If "god" doesn't say so, then the IT is not true, but a valid interpretation, therefore you can't know if it's right. You simply believe it to be right.

Oh come on... Bioware is just having a laugh at us. There are some hilarious jokes in the dialogue about the catalyst being introduced as a personal assistance mech instead of an AI with Reaper based code. They're even joking about the AI telling us what reality is. About the Shepard VI not believing the Reapers can be beaten and being only 7% accurate to the real Shepard. About "some kid" spilling soda over the hardware.

You have to be a special kind of thick-headed to not see that for what it is, IMO.

I can easily turn that around and say that you have to be a really deluded person to think that a few meaningless jokes have anything to do with the IT, IMO. 

Except that it isn't just a few. The entire game is rigged with ambiguous dialogue about Shepard not being dead, it all being an illusion, the war not being over, it all being a lie, the Reapers still being around.

You don't have to believe me, but I guarantee you, once you know how it all plays out, and you replay ME3, you'll notice all these things as 'obvious foreshadowing' and you will go "how did I never notice this?".

Granted, it's all very subtle, but there is too damn much of it in the game in order for it to be all coincidental. And then I'm just talking about the dialogue. Not even the mountain of other IT clues.

[CoolioThane]

Paradigms. At the moment Literal is obviously the most widely-accepted.

Our paradigm is IT.

If the DLC shows or very strongly hints at IT, there will/should be a paradigm shift so that the IT becomes the widely-accepted view.

Flat Earth ---> Round Earth

same sorta thing. Just don't understand why you spend so much time on here Hanar. You think you're right, why try to lessen our views...on our thread?

[hukbum]

@smokingotter1: Sorry, but your post are doomed to get lost between "Kindergarden Mark II" ...

[dreamgazer]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

What is a "Literal Theory"? I've never heard of that. Must be something you ITers made up, just like the Indoctrination Theory. Am I correct?

Considering the intentionally surreal elements in the Citadel sequence, I stand by the idea that everything after the point Shepard survives the Reaper laser---the one that kills most organisms on impact---exists in an interpretive limbo where both a literal outlook and a figurative outlook share equal plausibility.

I don't like slinging around silly terminology like "Literal Theory", though.

[estebanus]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
What the... I can't believe what I'm readning here. "Literal Theory"?  There is no such thing as a "Literal Theory".

My mistake, I forgot your view of the game is fact.

Everything is 100% literal by default in any work of literature. Unless the author reveals it within the book that it is something else, it's up to different interpretations of the same thing to make sense out of it. Some thing being literal is not a theory. It's a fact until proven wrong. 

The same goes for law. Unless proven otherwise, the accused is not guilty of the crime he's accused of.

[BleedingUranium]

hukbum wrote...

@smokingotter1: Sorry, but your post are doomed to get lost between "Kindergarden Mark II" ...

Sorry, I saw it! Cool stuff, Otter

[The Heretic of Time]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Except that it isn't just a few. The entire game is rigged with ambiguous dialogue about Shepard not being dead, it all being an illusion, the war not being over, it all being a lie, the Reapers still being around.

You just see what you want to see. Kinda reminds me of that movie with Jim Carrey and that number, what was it... 23?

You don't have to believe me, but I guarantee you, once you know how it all plays out, and you replay ME3, you'll notice all these things as 'obvious foreshadowing' and you will go "how did I never notice this?".

23

Granted, it's all very subtle, but there is too damn much of it in the game in order for it to be all coincidental. And then I'm just talking about the dialogue. Not even the mountain of other IT clues.

23

[DoomsdayDevice]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
I would....

4. Say: "Seems you guys finally got your dreaded IT reveal. Have fun with it. I certainly won't. I'll just move on to game-developers who don't pull off crazy stunts like this and come with a reveal waaaaaaaaaay to late."

Javik: "Only the foolish mourn the loss of innocence. It is inevitable. The galaxy has never rewarded the naive."

[The Heretic of Time]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
I would....

4. Say: "Seems you guys finally got your dreaded IT reveal. Have fun with it. I certainly won't. I'll just move on to game-developers who don't pull off crazy stunts like this and come with a reveal waaaaaaaaaay to late."

Javik: "Only the foolish mourn the loss of innocence. It is inevitable. The galaxy has never rewarded the naive."

I like pie.

[BleedingUranium]

Hanar, what Doomsday is talking about is not IT evidence, and in no way "proves IT". What it is, is very interesting subtleties that emerge one you have the IT lens. Omega is full of this kind of dialogue, but no (or very little) actual IT evidence. Learn the difference.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Soldier: But converting other life forms into Reapers... I can't wrap my head around that.
Garrus: Makes sense to me. It ensures you never run out of cannon fodder. Eliminates any local resistance. And for every soldier you add, your enemy loses two: the one you converted, and his buddy on the other side who can't pull the trigger on a friend. (...)
Soldier: But the Reapers want to destroy us.
Garrus: And I have no intention of letting them. But If you don't respect your enemy's capabilities, you're in for one nasty surprise after another.

[estebanus]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You can prove evolution, but you can't prove IT, because in this case, there is a god. That god is BioWare. The only way to know that IT is right is by "god" saying so. If "god" doesn't say so, then the IT is not true, but a valid interpretation, therefore you can't know if it's right. You simply believe it to be right.

Oh come on... Bioware is just having a laugh at us. There are some hilarious jokes in the dialogue about the catalyst being introduced as a personal assistance mech instead of an AI with Reaper based code. They're even joking about the AI telling us what reality is. About the Shepard VI not believing the Reapers can be beaten and being only 7% accurate to the real Shepard. About "some kid" spilling soda over the hardware.

You have to be a special kind of thick-headed to not see that for what it is, IMO.

I can easily turn that around and say that you have to be a really deluded person to think that a few meaningless jokes have anything to do with the IT, IMO. 

Except that it isn't just a few. The entire game is rigged with ambiguous dialogue about Shepard not being dead, it all being an illusion, the war not being over, it all being a lie, the Reapers still being around.

You don't have to believe me, but I guarantee you, once you know how it all plays out, and you replay ME3, you'll notice all these things as 'obvious foreshadowing' and you will go "how did I never notice this?".

Granted, it's all very subtle, but there is too damn much of it in the game in order for it to be all coincidental. And then I'm just talking about the dialogue. Not even the mountain of other IT clues.

You think I haven't done that before? You think I haven't playd through the game just to see if some dialogue was for the IT. For god's sake, I was an ITer until after the EC. However, saying that every little line of dialogue about stuff you'd normally hear people saying in a war somehow proves a literary interpretation, is ludicrous. Granted, there are many many lines in there that can support the theory and I'm certainly not denying that, but that doesn't mean single damn one is like that. Saying that some little twerp spilled soda over the hardware must help the IT is ludicrous.

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hanar, what Doomsday is talking about is not IT evidence, and in no way "proves IT". What it is, is very interesting subtleties that emerge once you have the IT lens. Omega is full of this kind of dialogue, but no (or very little) actual IT evidence. Learn the difference.

I guess you really don't see the irony in this post, do you?


I heavily suggest you'll watch the movie 'The Number 23' in the near future. It's not a great movie, but it will get my point acros.

[BleedingUranium]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hanar, what Doomsday is talking about is not IT evidence, and in no way "proves IT". What it is, is very interesting subtleties that emerge once you have the IT lens. Omega is full of this kind of dialogue, but no (or very little) actual IT evidence. Learn the difference.

I guess you really don't see the irony in this post, do you?


I heavily suggest you'll watch the movie 'The Number 23' in the near future. It's not a great movie, but it will get my point acros.

Do you not know what a literary interpretation is?

[ElSuperGecko]

estebanus wrote...
Everything is 100% literal by default in any work of literature. Unless the author reveals it within the book that it is something else, it's up to different interpretations of the same thing to make sense out of it. Some thing being literal is not a theory. It's a fact until proven wrong. 

The same goes for law. Unless proven otherwise, the accused is not guilty of the crime he's accused of.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Remind me again - who WAS Keyser Soze?

What was in the box in Se7en?

Was Dom Cobb awake, or still dreaming?

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:39 .

[estebanus]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Soldier: But converting other life forms into Reapers... I can't wrap my head around that.
Garrus: Makes sense to me. It ensures you never run out of cannon fodder. Eliminates any local resistance. And for every soldier you add, your enemy loses two: the one you converted, and his buddy on the other side who can't pull the trigger on a friend. (...)
Soldier: But the Reapers want to destroy us.
Garrus: And I have no intention of letting them. But If you don't respect your enemy's capabilities, you're in for one nasty surprise after another.

...Which is something totally normal a soldier would say in war, and it's proven to be true time and again. That isn't ambiguous. It doesn't seem misplaced. It's simply a common fact in war.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

I like pie.

[dreamgazer]

You can do a far, far better job of expressing the idea of confirmation bias than flinging around The Number 23.

[DoomsdayDevice]

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Soldier: But converting other life forms into Reapers... I can't wrap my head around that.
Garrus: Makes sense to me. It ensures you never run out of cannon fodder. Eliminates any local resistance. And for every soldier you add, your enemy loses two: the one you converted, and his buddy on the other side who can't pull the trigger on a friend. (...)
Soldier: But the Reapers want to destroy us.
Garrus: And I have no intention of letting them. But If you don't respect your enemy's capabilities, you're in for one nasty surprise after another.

...Which is something totally normal a soldier would say in war, and it's proven to be true time and again. That isn't ambiguous. It doesn't seem misplaced. It's simply a common fact in war.

I wasn't meaning to say that this was one of the ambiguous things.

This is rather unambiguous, plain obvious even.

If you don't respect the Reapers' ability to indoctrinate, you're in for a surprise.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Guys, I have to hit the road. TTYL.

Mad Batarian preacher out.

[CoolioThane]

estebanus, the whole point of the thread was for people to point out things in the game that they thought might be related to IT and then for discourse around the points. What some do is come in, see "bla bla bla" and think "WOW THAT GRASP STRAW DERP"

yes it might be just generic phrases, but that's how we build up the theory; with discussion.

Christ

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hanar, what Doomsday is talking about is not IT evidence, and in no way "proves IT". What it is, is very interesting subtleties that emerge once you have the IT lens. Omega is full of this kind of dialogue, but no (or very little) actual IT evidence. Learn the difference.

I guess you really don't see the irony in this post, do you?


I heavily suggest you'll watch the movie 'The Number 23' in the near future. It's not a great movie, but it will get my point acros.

Do you not know what a literary interpretation is?

I do. And I see no more merit in the IT than those people who accuse Harry Potter of heresy because the story supposedly is an entire metaphore of the New Testament (the Bible).

Harry Potter has tons of clues that it's about Jesus versus Satan. It's very interesting subtleties that emerge in Harry Potter once you have the Christianity lens. Frankly, I don't give a f*ck and I think everyone who looks at Harry Potter from that perspective is either just crazy or looking too much into it.