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[BleedingUranium]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

estebanus wrote...
Everything is 100% literal by default in any work of literature. Unless the author reveals it within the book that it is something else, it's up to different interpretations of the same thing to make sense out of it. Some thing being literal is not a theory. It's a fact until proven wrong. 

The same goes for law. Unless proven otherwise, the accused is not guilty of the crime he's accused of.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Remind me again - who WAS Keyser Soze?

What was in the box in Se7en?

Was Dom Cobb awake, or still dreaming?

Actually, Cobb's awake, you can tell because the top was wobbling. I noticed that the first time I saw the movie and thought "I guess most people will think it was ambiguous, but it's really not".

[estebanus]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

estebanus wrote...
Everything is 100% literal by default in any work of literature. Unless the author reveals it within the book that it is something else, it's up to different interpretations of the same thing to make sense out of it. Some thing being literal is not a theory. It's a fact until proven wrong. 

The same goes for law. Unless proven otherwise, the accused is not guilty of the crime he's accused of.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Remind me again - who WAS Keyser Soze?

What was in the box in Se7en?

Was Dom Cobb awake, or still dreaming?

Yeah, and you know what? the movie itself revealed who Söze was in the end. No fan theory came up with it. The movie itself revealed it. 

Accused = guilty of committing the crime.

[Rifneno]

estebanus wrote...

You think I haven't done that before? You think I haven't playd through the game just to see if some dialogue was for the IT. For god's sake, I was an ITer until after the EC. However, saying that every little line of dialogue about stuff you'd normally hear people saying in a war somehow proves a literary interpretation, is ludicrous. Granted, there are many many lines in there that can support the theory and I'm certainly not denying that, but that doesn't mean single damn one is like that. Saying that some little twerp spilled soda over the hardware must help the IT is ludicrous.

Huh.  That sounds oddly familiar.

[DoomsdayDevice]

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You can prove evolution, but you can't prove IT, because in this case, there is a god. That god is BioWare. The only way to know that IT is right is by "god" saying so. If "god" doesn't say so, then the IT is not true, but a valid interpretation, therefore you can't know if it's right. You simply believe it to be right.

Oh come on... Bioware is just having a laugh at us. There are some hilarious jokes in the dialogue about the catalyst being introduced as a personal assistance mech instead of an AI with Reaper based code. They're even joking about the AI telling us what reality is. About the Shepard VI not believing the Reapers can be beaten and being only 7% accurate to the real Shepard. About "some kid" spilling soda over the hardware.

You have to be a special kind of thick-headed to not see that for what it is, IMO.

I can easily turn that around and say that you have to be a really deluded person to think that a few meaningless jokes have anything to do with the IT, IMO. 

Except that it isn't just a few. The entire game is rigged with ambiguous dialogue about Shepard not being dead, it all being an illusion, the war not being over, it all being a lie, the Reapers still being around.

You don't have to believe me, but I guarantee you, once you know how it all plays out, and you replay ME3, you'll notice all these things as 'obvious foreshadowing' and you will go "how did I never notice this?".

Granted, it's all very subtle, but there is too damn much of it in the game in order for it to be all coincidental. And then I'm just talking about the dialogue. Not even the mountain of other IT clues.

You think I haven't done that before? You think I haven't playd through the game just to see if some dialogue was for the IT. For god's sake, I was an ITer until after the EC. However, saying that every little line of dialogue about stuff you'd normally hear people saying in a war somehow proves a literary interpretation, is ludicrous. Granted, there are many many lines in there that can support the theory and I'm certainly not denying that, but that doesn't mean single damn one is like that. Saying that some little twerp spilled soda over the hardware must help the IT is ludicrous.

Never did I say anywhere it proves it. To me, the intent is obvious. I'm sorry it's not that way for you.

[Norlond]

400x300http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_piXE8lFEABo/TTEH9iEWFWI/AAAAAAAABIA/6ntxEgTvXDA/s1600/relax.jpg[/img]

Modifié par Norlond, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[Rifneno]

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus, the whole point of the thread was for people to point out things in the game that they thought might be related to IT and then for discourse around the points. What some do is come in, see "bla bla bla" and think "WOW THAT GRASP STRAW DERP"

yes it might be just generic phrases, but that's how we build up the theory; with discussion.

Christ

I know, right?  I'm seriously starting to wonder if he gave his password to megumi.  It's the EXACT same idiocy.  EXACT.

And yes, estagumi, I said idiocy.  Deal with it.

[RavenEyry]

BleedingUranium wrote...
Actually, Cobb's awake, you can tell because the top was wobbling. I noticed that the first time I saw the movie and thought "I guess most people will think it was ambiguous, but it's really not".

The top wasn't his totem, it was his wifes. He never actually checks properly.

[CoolioThane]

But that's not the same thing, Hanar.

Harry Potter being an allegory is not the same as us interpreting the ending different to you.

[dreamgazer]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

I do. And I see no more merit in the IT than those people who accuse Harry Potter of heresy because the story supposedly is an entire metaphore of the New Testament (the Bible).

Harry Potter has tons of clues that it's about Jesus versus Satan. It's very interesting subtleties that emerge in Harry Potter once you have the Christianity lens. Frankly, I don't give a f*ck and I think everyone who looks at Harry Potter from that perspective is either just crazy or looking too much into it.

Are people who believe that everything is a "dream" in Total Recall crazy, since they look at it through that particular lens?

[RavenEyry]

Rifneno wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus, the whole point of the thread was for people to point out things in the game that they thought might be related to IT and then for discourse around the points. What some do is come in, see "bla bla bla" and think "WOW THAT GRASP STRAW DERP"

yes it might be just generic phrases, but that's how we build up the theory; with discussion.

Christ

I know, right?  I'm seriously starting to wonder if he gave his password to megumi.  It's the EXACT same idiocy.  EXACT.

And yes, estagumi, I said idiocy.  Deal with it.

I think blur, estebanus, doomsday and HH are all being equally obnoxious at the moment.

[estebanus]

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus, the whole point of the thread was for people to point out things in the game that they thought might be related to IT and then for discourse around the points. What some do is come in, see "bla bla bla" and think "WOW THAT GRASP STRAW DERP"

yes it might be just generic phrases, but that's how we build up the theory; with discussion.

Christ

A discussion that apparently largely consists of people saying "Yes, that must be it", mostly without questioning the line of dialogue brought up. A discussion doesn't consist of people saying "yes." It also doesn't consist of one person saying "no", and the others saying "then leave." A discussion consists of one side saying "yes, and here's why", and the other saying "no, and here's why."

[The Heretic of Time]

dreamgazer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

I do. And I see no more merit in the IT than those people who accuse Harry Potter of heresy because the story supposedly is an entire metaphore of the New Testament (the Bible).

Harry Potter has tons of clues that it's about Jesus versus Satan. It's very interesting subtleties that emerge in Harry Potter once you have the Christianity lens. Frankly, I don't give a f*ck and I think everyone who looks at Harry Potter from that perspective is either just crazy or looking too much into it.

Are people who believe that everything is a "dream" in Total Recall crazy, since they look at it through that particular lens?

I guess I should feel ashamed for the fact that I wouldn't know because I haven't seen Total Recall yet?

[BleedingUranium]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hanar, what Doomsday is talking about is not IT evidence, and in no way "proves IT". What it is, is very interesting subtleties that emerge once you have the IT lens. Omega is full of this kind of dialogue, but no (or very little) actual IT evidence. Learn the difference.

I guess you really don't see the irony in this post, do you?


I heavily suggest you'll watch the movie 'The Number 23' in the near future. It's not a great movie, but it will get my point acros.

Do you not know what a literary interpretation is?

I do. And I see no more merit in the IT than those people who accuse Harry Potter of heresy because the story supposedly is an entire metaphore of the New Testament (the Bible).

Harry Potter has tons of clues that it's about Jesus versus Satan. It's very interesting subtleties that emerge in Harry Potter once you have the Christianity lens. Frankly, I don't give a f*ck and I think everyone who looks at Harry Potter from that perspective is either just crazy or looking too much into it.

You really bring up religion too much here. We have theists and atheists both for and against IT, you're not doing anyone any favours by constantly comparing something to religion. I, for the record, am an atheist.

I never understood how that's a Christian interpretation, pretty much every story could be compared to Jesus vs Satan, but that goes way further back the the Bible, it's not Christian at all.

[dreamgazer]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

I guess I should feel ashamed for the fact that I wouldn't know because I haven't seen Total Recall yet?

You should. 

Don't worry: that bit of information isn't a spoiler, really. 

[Dwailing]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hanar, what Doomsday is talking about is not IT evidence, and in no way "proves IT". What it is, is very interesting subtleties that emerge once you have the IT lens. Omega is full of this kind of dialogue, but no (or very little) actual IT evidence. Learn the difference.

I guess you really don't see the irony in this post, do you?


I heavily suggest you'll watch the movie 'The Number 23' in the near future. It's not a great movie, but it will get my point acros.

Do you not know what a literary interpretation is?

I do. And I see no more merit in the IT than those people who accuse Harry Potter of heresy because the story supposedly is an entire metaphore of the New Testament (the Bible).

Harry Potter has tons of clues that it's about Jesus versus Satan. It's very interesting subtleties that emerge in Harry Potter once you have the Christianity lens. Frankly, I don't give a f*ck and I think everyone who looks at Harry Potter from that perspective is either just crazy or looking too much into it.

The "Christianity Lens?"  That's one I've never heard before.  Anyway, why is looking at Harry Potter as an allegory of the New Testament a bad thing?  I mean, regardless of your opinion of it as a world guide, you can't deny that it's a great story with great writing.  And it's also so old that there are parallels to it in frakking EVERYTHING simply because of how frakking OLD it is.

[RavenEyry]

dreamgazer wrote...
Are people who believe that everything is a "dream" in Total Recall crazy, since they look at it through that particular lens?

Videodrome's another good example. Some, most, all or none of it could well be imagined.

[Restrider]

Since we had the pleasure of dancing Liara a few (hundred) pages ago:



You're welcome...

[BleedingUranium]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus, the whole point of the thread was for people to point out things in the game that they thought might be related to IT and then for discourse around the points. What some do is come in, see "bla bla bla" and think "WOW THAT GRASP STRAW DERP"

yes it might be just generic phrases, but that's how we build up the theory; with discussion.

Christ

A discussion that apparently largely consists of people saying "Yes, that must be it", mostly without questioning the line of dialogue brought up. A discussion doesn't consist of people saying "yes." It also doesn't consist of one person saying "no", and the others saying "then leave." A discussion consists of one side saying "yes, and here's why", and the other saying "no, and here's why."

Now you're trolling Estebanus. You know the reason that's not seen as much anymore is because we've been through that already.

[CoolioThane]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus, the whole point of the thread was for people to point out things in the game that they thought might be related to IT and then for discourse around the points. What some do is come in, see "bla bla bla" and think "WOW THAT GRASP STRAW DERP"

yes it might be just generic phrases, but that's how we build up the theory; with discussion.

Christ

A discussion that apparently largely consists of people saying "Yes, that must be it", mostly without questioning the line of dialogue brought up. A discussion doesn't consist of people saying "yes." It also doesn't consist of one person saying "no", and the others saying "then leave." A discussion consists of one side saying "yes, and here's why", and the other saying "no, and here's why."

You've glossed over the main point of my post. You and others claiming we're grasping at straws when someone posts a quote or whatever without there being time to discuss it before an argument begins between you lot and us lot and then the quote is buried. 

Just stop.

[archangel1996]

So it's "you are stupid, no you are, no i am not you are" time?

Modifié par archangel1996, 05 décembre 2012 - 04:52 .

[tangythang]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

I like pie.

@doom

it got me thinking, does EDI ever lie?

one time Shepard ask "you can lie?"
she answered with "I'm not restricted to give a correct answer"
yeah but CAN YOU?, though unrestricted, she may still CAN'T

All the time, person who did the lying was Joker, not EDI.
Joker always spoke on behalf of EDI inside the normandy and during shore leave.
Like when Shepard first met Traynor, she said "I knew JOKER WAS LYING", and when both joker and EDI hang in purgatory bar, EDI ask joker "why lie about me being personal assistant mech?", and joker has to explain as why it's necessary to lie.

It sounded like EDI doesn't even bother concealing the truth EVERY SINGLE TIME.


dumdum dum dumdum
"I enjoy the sight of human on their knee", " a joke, but was it a lie?"

dumdum dum dumdum
"wait until the time of my reckoning", "a joke, but was it a lie?"

dumdum dum dumdum
"If I decide to overtake humanity, you'll be the first to know"

[dreamgazer]

archangel1996 wrote...

So it's "you are stupid, no you are, no i am not you are" time?

I don't think anybody here is stupid.

Other descriptors, maybe. But not stupid.

[RavenEyry]

archangel1996 wrote...

So it's "you are stupid, no you are, no i am not you are" time?

Yes, no one's had their coffee yet.

[TheProtheans]

CoolioThane wrote...

I'm so damn excited for this DLC. Have a feeling it's what we've been waiting for

There's that false hope again.
I should go around and collect it in a bucket before every DLC that is released.

[estebanus]

Rifneno wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus, the whole point of the thread was for people to point out things in the game that they thought might be related to IT and then for discourse around the points. What some do is come in, see "bla bla bla" and think "WOW THAT GRASP STRAW DERP"

yes it might be just generic phrases, but that's how we build up the theory; with discussion.

Christ

I know, right?  I'm seriously starting to wonder if he gave his password to megumi.  It's the EXACT same idiocy.  EXACT.

And yes, estagumi, I said idiocy.  Deal with it.

I see what you're trying to do, and it ain't gonna work.