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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#59726
BleedingUranium

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why do people ignore EDI calling the Collectors synthesis in ME2?

Why do people ignore the difference between opt out and the other endings which IT as of now cannot explain?


We have, multiple times. You've ignored it.

#59727
Rifneno

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Does it matter? Synthesis still isn't the same thing as reaperfication, which we can clearly see in the Synthesis epilogue.


Wow.  Just... wow.

#59728
paxxton

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AresKeith wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I remember Patrick Weekes caught off-guard at PAX in April saying that everybody on the Citadel is ok after the Reaper takeover. Yeah, right


Lol I know right, but from what I saw in the Jacob romance in ME3, it looks like they did forget he was an LI

Dunno but the romances in ME3 felt really schematic in general. Like suddenly everybody had a mood to go shopping and dining. And I didn't get a chance to romance anyone because Miranda locked me out.

EDIT: But only in my main playthrough. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 05 décembre 2012 - 06:54 .


#59729
MegumiAzusa

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BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why do people ignore EDI calling the Collectors synthesis in ME2?

Why do people ignore the difference between opt out and the other endings which IT as of now cannot explain?


We have, multiple times. You've ignored it.

And you made errors doing so, which I explained, which you ignored.

#59730
BleedingUranium

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

hukbum wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Why do people here keep comparing the Synthesis ending with the reapers turning organics into goo? IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!

So what does Shep have to do to make it happen?
Spend some fingernail, or get gooed?


Does it matter? Synthesis still isn't the same thing as reaperfication, which we can clearly see in the Synthesis epilogue.


You can't counter IT with stuff that happens between the beam run and the breath scene.

#59731
The Heretic of Time

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BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why do people ignore EDI calling the Collectors synthesis in ME2?

Why do people ignore the difference between opt out and the other endings which IT as of now cannot explain?


We have, multiple times. You've ignored it.


You haven't. If you did I haven't seen it. I didn't ignore anything.

#59732
Guest_laecraft_*

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Right Hanar, because the guy repeatedly exposed to Reaper tech doesn't make sense getting indoctrinated.


This sort of argument keeps coming up. Someone makes a meta comment about a bad writer's choice, and get replied with "but this is making perfect sense in the universe!"

Look, just because something COULD have happened, this doesn't mean it SHOULD have happened. The whole galaxy is exposed to Reaper tech, your LI is exposed to Reaper tech, the Reapers are too powerful to defeat so it makes sense we lose no matter what we do, the other species are too preoccupied with their own salvation so it makes sense they never give aid to Earth....need I go on.

TIM is not indoctrinated because "he's repeatedly exposed to Reaper tech". He's indoctrinated because the writers are lazy, and they wanted an easy way out, and they were in need of a better antagonist and Reapers are not human-like enough for that, and TIM is hated by many, and they wanted to give people a reason to shoot him.

He's indoctrinated because the writers chose for him to be so. Not because it's the only logical way for his story arc, and not because the ME universe simply works this way.

In fact, indoctrination being used is a pretty good indicator that something's very wrong with the narration or character's motivations, or that the writer's don't know where to take the story arc. Because indoctrination is such a story-breaking device that's so easy to abuse.

In fact, indoctrination is often used by ME writers when they need characters to behave completely out of character, but they're too lazy to provide them with the motivations to do so, or they lack the skills to come up with the reason why this might be happening.

They want a certain result, and look, indoctrination comes in handy! This is the device that can completely alter the narrative flow and doesn't care about established characters.

You can never argue with how little sense the events or the character are making, because "but they're indoctrinated"! And you can never argue with them being indoctrinated because "they're exposed to Reaper tech!" No one and nothing is safe this way. The entire galaxy can be altered as desired.

This is exactly what we're seeing in this thread. People are wishing the endings away, but they don't know how to do it so that it would make sense in-story. And look, indoctrination comes in handy. It can bend reality to your will, and it doesn't care how little sense it's making.

Modifié par laecraft, 05 décembre 2012 - 06:45 .


#59733
BleedingUranium

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Thanks, so an explosion from outside cannot break it but an explosion from inside with less force could. Thus shields protecting from outside are closer to be the right answer. QED.


No. Quantum shields are not the shields you are looking for.

#59734
smokingotter1

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spotlessvoid wrote...

Otter, you mean the model ships, or did I miss something?


Now I'm confused.

#59735
RavenEyry

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BleedingUranium wrote...
I'm sure Kelly Chambers was thrilled with the idea of synthesizing with the Reapers

is that what they're calling it these days?

#59736
spotlessvoid

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why do people ignore EDI calling the Collectors synthesis in ME2?

Why do people ignore the difference between opt out and the other endings which IT as of now cannot explain?


Refuse? Bill would suggest it's because you've been beaten into inaction/tricked into not using the crucible.

#59737
spotlessvoid

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smokingotter1 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Otter, you mean the model ships, or did I miss something?


Now I'm confused.


Perhaps you should enlighten me as to.which post of yours got ignored

#59738
MegumiAzusa

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BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Thanks, so an explosion from outside cannot break it but an explosion from inside with less force could. Thus shields protecting from outside are closer to be the right answer. QED.


No. Quantum shields are not the shields you are looking for.

Which I didn't say they were. I said a lesser explosion/force evidently overcame these quantum shields while a bigger force, which was applied over a longer period of time did not.

#59739
The Heretic of Time

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

hukbum wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Why do people here keep comparing the Synthesis ending with the reapers turning organics into goo? IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!

So what does Shep have to do to make it happen?
Spend some fingernail, or get gooed?


Does it matter? Synthesis still isn't the same thing as reaperfication, which we can clearly see in the Synthesis epilogue.


You can't counter IT with stuff that happens between the beam run and the breath scene.


That goes both ways. You can't use IT to counter what happens in the epilogues, because in the IT the epilogues don't happen. You can't use IT logic on the literal epilogues.

#59740
RavenEyry

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spotlessvoid wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Otter, you mean the model ships, or did I miss something?


Now I'm confused.


Perhaps you should enlighten me as to.which post of yours got ignored

There was one about Benezia's dialogue being similar to ending stuff, and one about how the kid originally looked more like Sheploo.

#59741
AresKeith

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@paxxton I also heard that Thane's ME2 writer actually had a treatment for his disease for ME3

#59742
umadcommander

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you know i kind of thought the news of a large new dlc would bring more positivity

#59743
MegumiAzusa

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spotlessvoid wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why do people ignore EDI calling the Collectors synthesis in ME2?

Why do people ignore the difference between opt out and the other endings which IT as of now cannot explain?


Refuse? Bill would suggest it's because you've been beaten into inaction/tricked into not using the crucible.

So it doesn't matter which choice Shep picks as activating the Crucible is the only thing that matters, which makes destroy in the long run equal to synthesis.

#59744
BleedingUranium

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spotlessvoid wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why do people ignore EDI calling the Collectors synthesis in ME2?

Why do people ignore the difference between opt out and the other endings which IT as of now cannot explain?


Refuse? Bill would suggest it's because you've been beaten into inaction/tricked into not using the crucible.


She's specifically talking about the star gazer scene being different, thinking it disproves IT.

The star gazer scene is not part of the narrative, it's a non-canon, fourth wall-breaking message to the player, nothing more. It's different in Refuse because it would be highly suspicious otherwise. And we've always viewed the scene like this, why would EC change that view?

#59745
MegumiAzusa

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spotlessvoid wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Otter, you mean the model ships, or did I miss something?


Now I'm confused.


Perhaps you should enlighten me as to.which post of yours got ignored

I guess he was referring to the general state, not individual posts.

#59746
smokingotter1

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spotlessvoid wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Otter, you mean the model ships, or did I miss something?


Now I'm confused.


Perhaps you should enlighten me as to.which post of yours got ignored


I wasn't just complaining just about me but how trolls in general are starting to dominate the discussion here. Seems like we should rename this forum from "Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!" to "Hanar and friends"

Sounds like a comedy actually.

#59747
spotlessvoid

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Laecraft....that's your opinion. And indoctrination is one of the best parts of Mass Effect, why shouldn't it be used?


Your argument is essentially:
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's not bad writing.

Whatever.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 05 décembre 2012 - 06:52 .


#59748
BleedingUranium

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

hukbum wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Why do people here keep comparing the Synthesis ending with the reapers turning organics into goo? IT'S NOT THE SAME THING!

So what does Shep have to do to make it happen?
Spend some fingernail, or get gooed?


Does it matter? Synthesis still isn't the same thing as reaperfication, which we can clearly see in the Synthesis epilogue.


You can't counter IT with stuff that happens between the beam run and the breath scene.


That goes both ways. You can't use IT to counter what happens in the epilogues, because in the IT the epilogues don't happen. You can't use IT logic on the literal epilogues.


I think I understand you intention, but what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

#59749
paxxton

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AresKeith wrote...

@paxxton I also heard that Thane's ME2 writer actually had a treatment for his disease for ME3

This is starting to sound like ME3 was going to be an opportunity to desperately close all the threads. Just to finally finish the story.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 décembre 2012 - 06:52 .


#59750
Hanako Ikezawa

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smokingotter1 wrote...
I wasn't just complaining just about me but how trolls in general are starting to dominate the discussion here. Seems like we should rename this forum from "Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!" to "Hanar and friends"

Sounds like a comedy actually.

This winter on BSN, it's Hanar and Friends!

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 05 décembre 2012 - 06:54 .