80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Dwailing]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

And this is why I'm never going to play straight Paragon or Renegade anymore, at least not in ME3.

[demersel]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

We don't know if Udina was indoctrinated or not.

All I know is that if he was, I'm sending Harbinger a thank you card.  Been waiting 3 games for an excuse.

Like I said, BioWare turned Udina into a cardboard-cutout villain so pathetic Paragon kiddies like you can get your power-trip satisfaction while metaphorically ejaculating all over his face when you pull the trigger on him.

Again - go **** yourself. And while you're at it learn to read.  Record the process on video - that should be a fun thing to observe. 

Modifié par demersel, 05 décembre 2012 - 08:53 .

[Bill Casey]

Restrider wrote...

demersel wrote...

We don't know if Udina was indoctrinated or not.

Yep, he is a racist @ss back to ME1. Add to it desperation and maybe TIM fooled him, promising him to take over the Citadel and to retake Earth. No need for indoctrination, it is only assumed by Ash, afaik.

And EDI...

[paxxton]

Restrider wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Top of Page 2400.

Lurking around to get top, huh?

It was a lucky coincidence.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

Grayson never agreed with them. You only get a choice to do the stuff willingly. If you reject you get forced.

[hukbum]

demersel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

We don't know if Udina was indoctrinated or not.

All I know is that if he was, I'm sending Harbinger a thank you card.  Been waiting 3 games for an excuse.

True, but it doesn't change the point. 

Why was Udina helping with the coup? What did he want to accoumplish? 
Lol - he is either stupid and power hungry, or indoctrinated. Or both. 

The truth is - nobody liked the guy enough to dig deaper beyound that.

I never put much thought in it, because he would be easy to manipulate (imo).
The rest of the council blocking him, Shep solving the problems he should have solved and so on ...
A giant ego is really easy to manipulate without indoctrination.

[CoolioThane]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

Grayson never agreed with them. You only get a choice to do the stuff willingly. If you reject you get forced.

Bit different considering he was implanted with Reaper-**** though

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

Grayson never agreed with them. You only get a choice to do the stuff willingly. If you reject you get forced.

Now you're mixing up with the other indoctrination. It can be confusing because they call them the same thing, but there's the indoctrination we talk about, where there's no control, and the other kind, which is more like entrallment, which is physical control, like husks. You need implants for that, as that's what they use to control your body.

-Standard indoctrination is persuading the mind to side with the Reapers.

-Enthrallment-indoctrination is the use of implants to physically control the victim.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 05 décembre 2012 - 08:59 .

[demersel]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

We don't know if Udina was indoctrinated or not.

Doesn't matter. He worked with Cerberus. Though now you could argue if Cerberus was indeed indoctrinated but that would bring you in an interesting position.

Lot's of people work with cerberus. Even Anderson does. By your logic they are all indoctrinated. But wait. It gets better! Shepard worked with Cerberus! Does it mean that shepard is indoctrinated? 

Modifié par demersel, 05 décembre 2012 - 09:01 .

[MegumiAzusa]

CoolioThane wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

Grayson never agreed with them. You only get a choice to do the stuff willingly. If you reject you get forced.

Bit different considering he was implanted with Reaper-**** though

And as you can see without implanting it's even less of a choice or would you call Kahlee weak willed?

[Bill Casey]

EDI: Shepard, I'm keeping track of the investigation into Udina's actions on the Citadel. It appears he was motivated to seize power in order to launch a counterattack on Earth. Most experts and advisors would agree that such a move at this point would be doomed to failure. His poor plan may have been exactly what the Reapers wanted. It is possible he was indoctrinated.

Shepard: He'd better be. At least that way he'd have an excuse.

[demersel]

hukbum wrote...
I never put much thought in it, because he would be easy to manipulate (imo).
The rest of the council blocking him, Shep solving the problems he should have solved and so on ...
A giant ego is really easy to manipulate without indoctrination.

True, bout doesn't it strike you as odd, that you the coup happens exaclty after genophage mission? And you informed of it by a salarian councilor - while Dalatress are not your biggest fan? And all cerberus activity so far has been connected to curing that whole affair? (attemt to kiddnap the females, attemt to blow up tuchanka?) 

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Ah, indoctrination is a choice. And how exactly is it that only the "badguys" get influenced by these mindtricks exactly?

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

So Saren, the most succesful, most respected SPECTRE in the universe was weak-willed and naive? Are you f*cking kidding me?

And TIM, the most elusive "gang leader" in Mass Effect, considered a real thread by many in the universe, respected by his peers such as The Shadowbroker and the Alliance, was also weak-willed and naive? (laughs) 

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

So you admit that Paragons are also vulnerable to indoctrination. Good. Now explain to me why only the "badguys" in Mass Effect get indoctrinated and NEVER the goodguys, such as Shepards crew members or better: his Love Interest.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 05 décembre 2012 - 09:02 .

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

Grayson never agreed with them. You only get a choice to do the stuff willingly. If you reject you get forced.

Bit different considering he was implanted with Reaper-**** though

And as you can see without implanting it's even less of a choice or would you call Kahlee weak willed?

This is indoctrination we're talking about. Everyone's weak-willed.

[CoolioThane]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

Grayson never agreed with them. You only get a choice to do the stuff willingly. If you reject you get forced.

Bit different considering he was implanted with Reaper-**** though

And as you can see without implanting it's even less of a choice or would you call Kahlee weak willed?

Wait, what? Kahlee said his words sounded like they made sense. The Reapers make you think they are right and you were wrong all along. You haven't made a case there, but this thread is for discussing IT not arguing with trolls

[AresKeith]

Mac Walters is working on the new DLC

[BleedingUranium]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

So you admit that Paragons are also vulnerable to indoctrination. Good. Now explain to me why only the "badguys" in Mass Effect get indoctrinated and NEVER the goodguys, such as Shepards crew members or better: his Love Interest.

Why are you so obsessed with whoever Shepard's sleeping with being indoctrinated?

[Bill Casey]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

And as you can see without implanting it's even less of a choice or would you call Kahlee weak willed?

EDI: But this was not a statistically insignificant number. Ninety percent refused to report their fellow prisoners. Indoctrination should have reduced the number of rebels to nearly zero.

Shepard: Maybe word got out how indoctrination worked. And they made a decision.

EDI: I see.

[BleedingUranium]

CoolioThane wrote...

Wait, what? Kahlee said his words sounded like they made sense. The Reapers make you think they are right and you were wrong all along. You haven't made a case there, but this thread is for discussing IT not arguing with trolls

Exactly. [/Anderson]

[demersel]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Why are you so obsessed with whoever Shepard's sleeping with being indoctrinated?

Simple. Beecause that would make a good story.  

[paxxton]

AresKeith wrote...

Mac Walters is working on the new DLC

Source, please?

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

hukbum wrote...
I never put much thought in it, because he would be easy to manipulate (imo).
The rest of the council blocking him, Shep solving the problems he should have solved and so on ...
A giant ego is really easy to manipulate without indoctrination.

True, bout doesn't it strike you as odd, that you the coup happens exaclty after genophage mission? And you informed of it by a salarian councilor - while Dalatress are not your biggest fan? And all cerberus activity so far has been connected to curing that whole affair? (attemt to kiddnap the females, attemt to blow up tuchanka?)

And in the original order of the missions which they had to change, because they didn't manage to fit in Javik, the Citadel mission came after Thessia because of the data from Vendetta. It would make sense that what we got is patchwork.

[Dwailing]

AresKeith wrote...

Mac Walters is working on the new DLC

Not sure if this is a good sign or not.

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

So you admit that Paragons are also vulnerable to indoctrination. Good. Now explain to me why only the "badguys" in Mass Effect get indoctrinated and NEVER the goodguys, such as Shepards crew members or better: his Love Interest.

Why are you so obsessed with whoever Shepard's sleeping with being indoctrinated?

Nice strawman, or are you deliberately missing the point to dodge the question?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 05 décembre 2012 - 09:07 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Ah, so indoctrination is a choice now? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Or are you trying to say indoctrination only works on bad people? That's even more silly. I guess the reapers and their indoctrination aren't that fearsome and powerful after all, are they?

Are you for real with this? Yes, indoctrination is a choice, very much so. There's no mind control, you willingly side with them. They manipulate you, make their ideas seems way better, and yours terrible, but at its core it's still a choice. Many are indoctrinated trying to do good.

Indoctrination works on weak-willed, naive, and/or power-hungry people, as it plays to their desires. Saren thought he was saving everyone and TIM thought he could control Reapers, a fool's errand. Both ended up serving the Reapers' purposes.

Paragon Shepard is vulnerable because he wants to save everyone, while Renegade Shepard is vulnerable because he'll do anything to stop the Reapers. Both those motivations can be exploited easily.

Grayson never agreed with them. You only get a choice to do the stuff willingly. If you reject you get forced.

Bit different considering he was implanted with Reaper-**** though

And as you can see without implanting it's even less of a choice or would you call Kahlee weak willed?

This is indoctrination we're talking about. Everyone's weak-willed.

So it's no choice afterall.