80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
The question is also: are these names based on a previous scrapped version?
Also for the dream foliage it could have been created for the dream in the first place but later reused as they didn't have the time to create more.

Lots aff assumptions and what ifs.

My point exactly.

[MegumiAzusa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

FFZero wrote...

For the love of God demersel, Megumi is still a fan of IT, she's not jumped ship to the literal or bad writing theories. All she is doing is pointing out the wholes in IT, you have no grounds to savage her at every given point just because she doesn't agree with your interpretation.

JFC.  Is this the first post you've ever read here?  Megumi is a disease to this thread.  It doesn't matter what she believes, it matters how she acts.  I'd rather hav seviel here than this... thing.

Even if I find Rif harsh, I usually agree with him. This case is no different. I have basically the same attitude towards Javik.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

[demersel]

I'll tell you all a joke.
So the four rabbies have a relegious debate in a park on a clear day. And it turns out that three of tham have the same point, while one has the different.
So then he prays outloud - God, please, you know I am right' show these fools the way!

And then the very next instance a bright ray of light shines upon him.

He says - You see! You see! The Gos himself is telling you three morons that you are wrong!

They say - Nah, it is just a coincidence.

So the one rabbi prays again - God please! you see how thick these three are - please could you provide a more specific sign!

And the very next instance - a lightning strikes the tree near them.

He screams - Now do you see????

- Nah, it is just a simple physics - A lightnign will strike the highest tree and this one is the highest around.

- But that is not even the point!! Oh god, can't you see how limited and stuck up they are? could you tell them that i'm right the way they would be able to understant it?

A giant finger stretches from the skies, points at the one rabbi, and a loud voice speaks "HE"S RIGHT!"

- Meh, it's still two against three.

[Rifneno]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Low EMS options still disagree. Shepard dies in these options too.

Dies according to the Catalyst. If it is all in Shepard's head we dont know what is happening to Shepard's body.

No, I'm pretty sure Shepard really does die in low EMS destroy.  The reason's simple, and if look at the subtext, Leviathan strongly hints to it.  Remember how the two brutes were about to kill Shepard while he was still groggy from the indoctrination attempt by Leviathan?  He was about to die.  The only thing that saved him was Leviathan possessing a brute and turning it on the other.  Shepard survived because he had good backup while he was on the mat.  London's the same.  If no one's got your back while you're laying half-dead and unconscious, you're a sitting duck for Reaper ground forces.

[MegumiAzusa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
If you have the result x in case 1, x in case 2, and y in case 3 while x != y you can say case 1 and case 2 are equal. This equality means that no matter what you do in the long run the same result occurs. Applied to the ending that means it doesn't matter if Shepard lives or dies. What matters is that she really activated the Crucible in order to achieve x. You don't need to know when etc it's playing. If you say "this cycle dies in Synthesis and x is placed in another cycle" you also have to say that any choice of destroy has the continuation of the cycle as a result. If the scene wouldn't give any ingame message and is only supposed to be counted as a message to the player the new opt out scene shouldn't be there, but it is, and makes it clear how it looks like what happens if the Crucible is not activated.

Actually, I believe I covered that argument, and agreed with you that whatever you do in the LONG run the same result occurs.  "Ripples in a pond".

But concerning ourselves with the "long run" isn't our goal.  What is Shepard's goal?  To save the races of the galaxy, friends, their loved ones and their way of life.  This is not the long run - this is distinctly short term.

The Catalyst's goal is to preserve life in the long run.  Which, as your interpretation of the Stargazer scene seems to show us, is pointless because regardless of our decision, life wil go on anyway.

The difference in the Strargazer scene is distinct:  Refuse and this cycle WILL NOT survive.  Choose - and it MAY survive.  Or it MAY NOT.  We don't know enough about the Stargazr scene to draw that conclusion either way.  And that's why the context is important.  We get that context with refuse.  It's clear that we failed, and a different cycle defeated the Reapers.  With the other choices, it's not clear whether we survived or not - only that life still goes on... one way or another.

Which would still lead to choosing any option doesn't matter in the end but to opt out.
The problem you create for yourself here is by saying if it shows another cycle we never destroyed the Reapers and always got indoctrinated. Which also contradicts IT and makes the last choice completely irrelevant. Do you really want that?

Ehm I dont understand Mezumi. He specifically says that Refuse tells us this Cycle dident survive, while any of the 3 options leave us none the wiser as to its survival. How is that making the choices irrelevant?

In fact that leaves the door open to the posibility that depending on factors, like how prepared you were and the choice you make this choice may or may not survive depending entirely on what you do.

All other choices are still equal, which means if the epilog from high ems destroy is the same then synthesis or low ems control you still have the same result. Which means if Shep is indoctrinated in Synthesis and therefor the Cycle does continue the Cycle also continues in High EMS destroy.

[Restrider]

dreamgazer wrote...

demersel wrote...

What about the DreamFoilage_ lable for the leaves on the planet the normandy crushes on? 
What about the model for the handles that Shepard grabs in control being named "BadChoice_01"?

If "dream foliage" isn't just a description of the way the plants look, which it could be, then it might strengthen the non-literal outlook---but that doesn't necesarily mean IT.

The control handle still leaves me scratching my head.

DreamFoilage_ is no real support since that is also used in Shepard's dreams. I say re-used assets.

[BansheeOwnage]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

FFZero wrote...

For the love of God demersel, Megumi is still a fan of IT, she's not jumped ship to the literal or bad writing theories. All she is doing is pointing out the wholes in IT, you have no grounds to savage her at every given point just because she doesn't agree with your interpretation.

JFC.  Is this the first post you've ever read here?  Megumi is a disease to this thread.  It doesn't matter what she believes, it matters how she acts.  I'd rather hav seviel here than this... thing.

Even if I find Rif harsh, I usually agree with him. This case is no different. I have basically the same attitude towards Javik.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

My relationships are reciprocal Megumi. If you're acting in an overly negative and condescending manner, I won't hold much respect for you. You can say what you want, but how you say it matters.

Also, if you want to go with the game files, then those leaves are in a dream and control is bad no matter what. You can't have it both ways.

I got to get out of here.

[hukbum]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Low EMS options still disagree. Shepard dies in these options too.

Don't know, does all that IT stuff not include to play all games to realize it?
And it's quite hard to even get low EMS Destroy if you've played all games. Btw - if you get low EMS Destroy, yourShep really did something wrong

Doesn't matter and it's still a possibility.
Do things like saving Wrex in ME1 and then being a total scumbag in ME3 and kill Mordin, you will loose the complete support from the Krogans. Then in ME2 go on pick a choice with the Geth in Legions mission and then choose the opposite faction in ME3. With importing you can go way lower then with using the default Shep.

Why doesn't it matter? If you screw up ME2, it's over.
If you screw up ME3, it's over.
I don't see why you're always talking about low EMS. Shep screwed up big time. That's it. Low EMS Destroy is your "mission failed"-screen, if you played all three games.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Low EMS options still disagree. Shepard dies in these options too.

Dies according to the Catalyst. If it is all in Shepard's head we dont know what is happening to Shepard's body.

No, I'm pretty sure Shepard really does die in low EMS destroy.  The reason's simple, and if look at the subtext, Leviathan strongly hints to it.  Remember how the two brutes were about to kill Shepard while he was still groggy from the indoctrination attempt by Leviathan?  He was about to die.  The only thing that saved him was Leviathan possessing a brute and turning it on the other.  Shepard survived because he had good backup while he was on the mat.  London's the same.  If no one's got your back while you're laying half-dead and unconscious, you're a sitting duck for Reaper ground forces.

Yeah okay, in that way it makes sense, though there is also a explanation.

At low EMS Harbinger is disappointed. Shepard hasent displayed the great qualities which made Harbinger or the Reapers in general take notice, bringing only a small fleet to Earth. Shepard essentially losses all value, the qualities which made them consider him for Indoctrination not present and thus they kill him as he is useless to them.

[demersel]

Restrider wrote...

DreamFoilage_ is no real support since that is also used in Shepard's dreams. I say re-used assets.

Is Dreamlight_tile used in Shepard's dreams? Cause that would be a place to use it. 

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

I'll tell you all a joke.
So the four rabbies have a relegious debate in a park on a clear day. And it turns out that three of tham have the same point, while one has the different.
So then he prays outloud - God, please, you know I am right' show these fools the way!

And then the very next instance a bright ray of light shines upon him.

He says - You see! You see! The Gos himself is telling you three morons that you are wrong!

They say - Nah, it is just a coincidence.

So the one rabbi prays again - God please! you see how thick these three are - please could you provide a more specific sign!

And the very next instance - a lightning strikes the tree near them.

He screams - Now do you see????

- Nah, it is just a simple physics - A lightnign will strike the highest tree and this one is the highest around.

- But that is not even the point!! Oh god, can't you see how limited and stuck up they are? could you tell them that i'm right the way they would be able to understant it?

A giant finger stretches from the skies, points at the one rabbi, and a loud voice speaks "HE"S RIGHT!"

- Meh, it's still two against three.

An accurate description of politics...

Modifié par paxxton, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[FFZero]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

FFZero wrote...

For the love of God demersel, Megumi is still a fan of IT, she's not jumped ship to the literal or bad writing theories. All she is doing is pointing out the wholes in IT, you have no grounds to savage her at every given point just because she doesn't agree with your interpretation.

JFC.  Is this the first post you've ever read here?  Megumi is a disease to this thread.  It doesn't matter what she believes, it matters how she acts.  I'd rather hav seviel here than this... thing.

Even if I find Rif harsh, I usually agree with him. This case is no different. I have basically the same attitude towards Javik.

Seviel...really?  I will agree that the way Megumi acts isn't the
most productive...actually you know what, sod it, I'm done trying to
defend anyone. I'm just going to go back to lurking. Too tired for this crap.

[Rifneno]

Restrider wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

demersel wrote...

What about the DreamFoilage_ lable for the leaves on the planet the normandy crushes on? 
What about the model for the handles that Shepard grabs in control being named "BadChoice_01"?

If "dream foliage" isn't just a description of the way the plants look, which it could be, then it might strengthen the non-literal outlook---but that doesn't necesarily mean IT.

The control handle still leaves me scratching my head.

DreamFoilage_ is no real support since that is also used in Shepard's dreams. I say re-used assets.

Exactly.  It's used all over the place in fact.  Honestly I think the only really good find we got from digging through model names was finding that Control is called "End_Choice_BadA_01".  But I suppose I'm biased about the importance of that.  <shrug>  Anyway, there's so damn many reused models in so many places that it's hard to make heads or tails of most of the names.

[BansheeOwnage]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
All other choices are still equal, which means if the epilog from high ems destroy is the same then synthesis or low ems control you still have the same result. Which means if Shep is indoctrinated in Synthesis and therefor the Cycle does continue the Cycle also continues in High EMS destroy.

WTF? And also I agree with Rif about Shepard dying.

[BansheeOwnage]

FFZero wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

FFZero wrote...

For the love of God demersel, Megumi is still a fan of IT, she's not jumped ship to the literal or bad writing theories. All she is doing is pointing out the wholes in IT, you have no grounds to savage her at every given point just because she doesn't agree with your interpretation.

JFC.  Is this the first post you've ever read here?  Megumi is a disease to this thread.  It doesn't matter what she believes, it matters how she acts.  I'd rather hav seviel here than this... thing.

Even if I find Rif harsh, I usually agree with him. This case is no different. I have basically the same attitude towards Javik.

Seviel...really?  I will agree that the way Megumi acts isn't the
most productive...actually you know what, sod it, I'm done trying to
defend anyone. I'm just going to go back to lurking. Too tired for this crap.

 I feel bad.

[FFZero]

demersel wrote...

Restrider wrote...

DreamFoilage_ is no real support since that is also used in Shepard's dreams. I say re-used assets.

Is Dreamlight_tile used in Shepard's dreams? Cause that would be a place to use it. 

Yes it is used in the dreams, I think it's the texture used on the shadows.

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

Restrider wrote...

DreamFoilage_ is no real support since that is also used in Shepard's dreams. I say re-used assets.

Is Dreamlight_tile used in Shepard's dreams? Cause that would be a place to use it. 

Honestly the only place I ever see that used is on projections of TIM.  I have no idea why it's called dreamlight.

[MegumiAzusa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

FFZero wrote...

For the love of God demersel, Megumi is still a fan of IT, she's not jumped ship to the literal or bad writing theories. All she is doing is pointing out the wholes in IT, you have no grounds to savage her at every given point just because she doesn't agree with your interpretation.

JFC.  Is this the first post you've ever read here?  Megumi is a disease to this thread.  It doesn't matter what she believes, it matters how she acts.  I'd rather hav seviel here than this... thing.

Even if I find Rif harsh, I usually agree with him. This case is no different. I have basically the same attitude towards Javik.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

My relationships are reciprocal Megumi. If you're acting in an overly negative and condescending manner, I won't hold much respect for you. You can say what you want, but how you say it matters.

Also, if you want to go with the game files, then those leaves are in a dream and control is bad no matter what. You can't have it both ways.

I got to get out of here.

Which would result in high EMS being also a dream, which would result in the last choice being irrelevant, which would result in bad writing. Do you want to believe that?
I'm sorry but you're digging your own grave with that. And as Rif even so kindly commented there is more then one reason to believe Shep dies in low EMS.

[MegumiAzusa]

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Low EMS options still disagree. Shepard dies in these options too.

Don't know, does all that IT stuff not include to play all games to realize it?
And it's quite hard to even get low EMS Destroy if you've played all games. Btw - if you get low EMS Destroy, yourShep really did something wrong

Doesn't matter and it's still a possibility.
Do things like saving Wrex in ME1 and then being a total scumbag in ME3 and kill Mordin, you will loose the complete support from the Krogans. Then in ME2 go on pick a choice with the Geth in Legions mission and then choose the opposite faction in ME3. With importing you can go way lower then with using the default Shep.

Why doesn't it matter? If you screw up ME2, it's over.
If you screw up ME3, it's over.
I don't see why you're always talking about low EMS. Shep screwed up big time. That's it. Low EMS Destroy is your "mission failed"-screen, if you played all three games.

It's not, it's a datapad that says my Shep saved the galaxy and I should buy DLCs
No seriously, you don't fail with low EMS, the game makes that quite clear.

[paxxton]

FFZero wrote...

demersel wrote...

Restrider wrote...

DreamFoilage_ is no real support since that is also used in Shepard's dreams. I say re-used assets.

Is Dreamlight_tile used in Shepard's dreams? Cause that would be a place to use it. 

Yes it is used in the dreams, I think it's the texture used on the shadows.

NNNNoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Restrider]

demersel wrote...


Is Dreamlight_tile used in Shepard's dreams? Cause that would be a place to use it. 

I do not know. I am no data-miner. Just wanted to point that I think foilage is not really a supporting find.

[hukbum]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Low EMS options still disagree. Shepard dies in these options too.

Don't know, does all that IT stuff not include to play all games to realize it?
And it's quite hard to even get low EMS Destroy if you've played all games. Btw - if you get low EMS Destroy, yourShep really did something wrong

Doesn't matter and it's still a possibility.
Do things like saving Wrex in ME1 and then being a total scumbag in ME3 and kill Mordin, you will loose the complete support from the Krogans. Then in ME2 go on pick a choice with the Geth in Legions mission and then choose the opposite faction in ME3. With importing you can go way lower then with using the default Shep.

Why doesn't it matter? If you screw up ME2, it's over.
If you screw up ME3, it's over.
I don't see why you're always talking about low EMS. Shep screwed up big time. That's it. Low EMS Destroy is your "mission failed"-screen, if you played all three games.

It's not, it's a datapad that says my Shep saved the galaxy and I should buy DLCs
No seriously, you don't fail with low EMS, the game makes that quite clear.

Even in a Literal Interpretation a destroyed earth is a major fail. Because the mission is to take back earth, not to destroy it

[dreamgazer]

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

Restrider wrote...

DreamFoilage_ is no real support since that is also used in Shepard's dreams. I say re-used assets.

Is Dreamlight_tile used in Shepard's dreams? Cause that would be a place to use it. 

Honestly the only place I ever see that used is on projections of TIM.  I have no idea why it's called dreamlight.

Which texture is that?  I think I remember you folks mentioning it way back, and I believe I saw that pattern on one of the glossy doors in the Citadel to represent light reflections.

[MegumiAzusa]

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Low EMS options still disagree. Shepard dies in these options too.

Don't know, does all that IT stuff not include to play all games to realize it?
And it's quite hard to even get low EMS Destroy if you've played all games. Btw - if you get low EMS Destroy, yourShep really did something wrong

Doesn't matter and it's still a possibility.
Do things like saving Wrex in ME1 and then being a total scumbag in ME3 and kill Mordin, you will loose the complete support from the Krogans. Then in ME2 go on pick a choice with the Geth in Legions mission and then choose the opposite faction in ME3. With importing you can go way lower then with using the default Shep.

Why doesn't it matter? If you screw up ME2, it's over.
If you screw up ME3, it's over.
I don't see why you're always talking about low EMS. Shep screwed up big time. That's it. Low EMS Destroy is your "mission failed"-screen, if you played all three games.

It's not, it's a datapad that says my Shep saved the galaxy and I should buy DLCs
No seriously, you don't fail with low EMS, the game makes that quite clear.

Even in a Literal Interpretation a destroyed earth is a major fail. Because the mission is to take back earth, not to destroy it

Reapers are still dead and we are victorious.

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Low EMS options still disagree. Shepard dies in these options too.

Don't know, does all that IT stuff not include to play all games to realize it?
And it's quite hard to even get low EMS Destroy if you've played all games. Btw - if you get low EMS Destroy, yourShep really did something wrong

Doesn't matter and it's still a possibility.
Do things like saving Wrex in ME1 and then being a total scumbag in ME3 and kill Mordin, you will loose the complete support from the Krogans. Then in ME2 go on pick a choice with the Geth in Legions mission and then choose the opposite faction in ME3. With importing you can go way lower then with using the default Shep.

Why doesn't it matter? If you screw up ME2, it's over.
If you screw up ME3, it's over.
I don't see why you're always talking about low EMS. Shep screwed up big time. That's it. Low EMS Destroy is your "mission failed"-screen, if you played all three games.

It's not, it's a datapad that says my Shep saved the galaxy and I should buy DLCs
No seriously, you don't fail with low EMS, the game makes that quite clear.

That's not even remotely true! You fried the whole population of Earth or at least what was left of it. And then fish&chips were served.