80611 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Domanese wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

can you imagine the advertising campaign for me4 in a few years time without IT. Would they be able to grab back any fanbase they potentially honk off? Surely they should be looking after their fans now? and surely that includes the ITers?

what if this is an experiment by bioware and they are all sat in base laughing at us? both ITers and non ITers?

I bet you that they are cackling like madmen because the experiment worked completely

If by "worked completely" you mean left the fan-base in aggravated shambles, then sure.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:07 .

[401 Kill]

paxxton wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I wonder what Protheans did with their problems before they developed space travel.

They had their own Protheans - the Inusannon.

And the Insannon hade a cycle before them that they were influenced by. And the Reapers had influence over every cycle there has ever been. I can't believe how people can let the Reapers survive. I can't believe how the Crucible doesn't discriminate in Destroy, yet it discriminates in Control. So much we don't know why.

[Eryri]

Rifneno wrote...

It's hard to say. We're naturally biased. We're going to think the reveal will be better received than it likely will be because we're vehemently in the pro camp. The opposite is true too. The literalists think the reveal will be received worse than it likely will be. Everyone involved enough to have an educated opinion is biased one way or another.

All of this is very true. Lets hope that Bioware do such a spectacular job with this DLC that everybody is happy.

Tall order I know.

Modifié par Eryri, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:10 .

[Rifneno]

dreamgazer wrote...

Domanese wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

can you imagine the advertising campaign for me4 in a few years time without IT. Would they be able to grab back any fanbase they potentially honk off? Surely they should be looking after their fans now? and surely that includes the ITers?

what if this is an experiment by bioware and they are all sat in base laughing at us? both ITers and non ITers?

I bet you that they are cackling like madmen because the experiment worked completely

If by "worked completely" you mean left the fan-base in aggravated shambles, then sure.

Agreed.  While it worked beautifully for a mindscrew, it was a train wreck for the fans.  They pissed off so many fans so badly that they actually got articles on BBC and such about the outrage.  And they divided the fanbase largely into two groups that get along worse than Republicans and Democrats (nobody try to say which side is which or you're getting airlocked).  Thanks bunches, BW.

[Fingertrip]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Can also someone explain to me where they said they would release extra content for Shepard and to change his story-arc?

I'm confused.  Weren't Leviathan and Omega extra content for Shepard?  Didn't they change Shepard's story arc?

Aren't we expecting more similar content in the next few months?  Won't that change Shepard's story arc?

Obviously referring to the conlussion. It is unchanged, and the three choices (+1) was added, but ineveitably- it wasn't any rainbow and sunshine ending to it all. The extra content only expands the story-arc, but it doesn't change the outcome, which has been stressed numerous times that it won't be changed? 

dorktainian wrote...

can you imagine the advertising campaign for me4 in a few years time without IT. Would they be able to grab back any fanbase they potentially honk off? Surely they should be looking after their fans now? and surely that includes the ITers?

what if this is an experiment by bioware and they are all sat in base laughing at us? both ITers and non ITers?

They said there's no Mass Effect 4 in-production. Seeing as Shepards journey has ENDED. However, there is still more Mass-Effect RELATED games that are planned. But it's probably going to be prequals and spin-offs. There's alot of possibilities available there, and I can guarantee you, they will not have any numbers to the franchise. I'm sure it'll be like Mass Effect: Insert Random Name and expand upon that. It'll be really akward from a business stand-point and production to continue on with a new-character and prequel that might seem as a contiuation from the number 3 to 4. It'll make more sense if it's just a name added to it instead, smoother sailing or whatever an appropiate saying would be. 

Modifié par Fingertrip, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[Restrider]

Eryri wrote..

Another way-out, but enjoyable theory, is the stargazer and his grandson are blissfully unaware that they are merely self-aware sub-programs running in the wetware of a new reaper. Their idillic little planet is just a pleasant version of the matrix to keep their conscious minds placid, while their subconscious minds comprise the gestalt intellect of the reaper.

There's no great evidence for this theory, and I can't remember who came up with it, but it appeals to my love of mind****ery. EDIT: Actually I think it might have been BleedingUranium's idea?

On another different but related topic - if the EC and refuse ending as we currently know them really were unplanned bandaids to quell fan outrage, I wonder if Bioware will strike them from canon as they did with the botched Deception novel, if and when the "true" ending is revealed?

I find it interesting that the EC is not included by default in the Trilogy pack (although it is in the WiiU version which now that I think of it, counts against this idea a bit). 

I have one remark to make:
It is one common interpretation amongst ITers to assume that the slideshows are part of the hallucination - something like Shepard's mind justifying his decision and showing him a future with hope.
Furthermore it is considered that the Normandy crash-landing on that garden world is also part of this hallucination, to give him closure regarding his closest friends and LI (I'd like to mention otter's interpretation that the garden world and the sinister forest of Shepard's dreams are antagonizing scenery - a shame that his posts were utterly ignored during the troll-fest and internal bickering).



Now, it is obvious that the garden world - where all stargazer scenes take place - have a familiar sky setting. I think it is save to assume that these planets are indeed identical.



If we assume that the first time this planet is shown to us is during a hallucinatory state, then the second time we see this planet - namely the stargazer scene - should be also part of a hallucination. If we assume this, what meaning does the stargazer scene actually have for the real world? None...?

Again, this is my personal interpretation.

Modifié par Restrider, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:26 .

[IronSabbath88]

Fingertrip wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Can also someone explain to me where they said they would release extra content for Shepard and to change his story-arc?

I'm confused.  Weren't Leviathan and Omega extra content for Shepard?  Didn't they change Shepard's story arc?

Aren't we expecting more similar content in the next few months?  Won't that change Shepard's story arc?

Obviously referring to the conlussion. It is unchanged, and the three choices (+1) was added, but ineveitably- it wasn't any rainbow and sunshine ending to it all. The extra content only expands the story-arc, but it doesn't change the outcome, which has been stressed numerous times that it won't be changed? 

So, are you here for any other reason that to repeatedly state over and over that "it won't be changed"?

BioWare has said NUMEROUS things in the past. Everything ranging from denying Arrival and such when it was leaked for ME2. That said, I personally don't feel changing the ending is the same as an expansion on the ending.

[Domanese]

dreamgazer wrote...

Domanese wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

can you imagine the advertising campaign for me4 in a few years time without IT. Would they be able to grab back any fanbase they potentially honk off? Surely they should be looking after their fans now? and surely that includes the ITers?

what if this is an experiment by bioware and they are all sat in base laughing at us? both ITers and non ITers?

I bet you that they are cackling like madmen because the experiment worked completely

If by "worked completely" you mean left the fan-base in aggravated shambles, then sure.

Actually what I mean is that they managed to indoctinate their own fanbase. For real. By the way I love you too.

In truth I do agree in part about it working a touch too damn well. So would I like to see something like this in Dragon Age 3? Probably not.

Modifié par Domanese, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:23 .

[Rifneno]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

So, are you here for any other reason that to repeatedly state over and over that "it won't be changed"?

BioWare has said NUMEROUS things in the past. Everything ranging from denying Arrival and such when it was leaked for ME2. That said, I personally don't feel changing the ending is the same as an expansion on the ending.

I know, right?  Especially when it comes to how things would play out in ME3, BW hasn't just told a few little white lies, they've told more bald face lies than they have told the truth.  But now all of a sudden, we can trust things that they say absolutely.  There's no chance that they're lying now, because they're saying something the literalists want to believe.  And it's not even the real writers, it's most or all community relations people who almost certainly aren't in the loop.

But I suppose this ******-poor pattern recognition is part of why they're literalists to begin with.

[Fingertrip]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Can also someone explain to me where they said they would release extra content for Shepard and to change his story-arc?

I'm confused.  Weren't Leviathan and Omega extra content for Shepard?  Didn't they change Shepard's story arc?

Aren't we expecting more similar content in the next few months?  Won't that change Shepard's story arc?

Obviously referring to the conlussion. It is unchanged, and the three choices (+1) was added, but ineveitably- it wasn't any rainbow and sunshine ending to it all. The extra content only expands the story-arc, but it doesn't change the outcome, which has been stressed numerous times that it won't be changed? 

So, are you here for any other reason that to repeatedly state over and over that "it won't be changed"?

BioWare has said NUMEROUS things in the past. Everything ranging from denying Arrival and such when it was leaked for ME2. That said, I personally don't feel changing the ending is the same as an expansion on the ending.

And who's to say the hints of Indoctrination is not just messing with you, making you believe in false ideals and false hope? Same application can be used in this matter, and I even stresse that in the original post. I'm looking for reason for discussion based on business, economics and design of a company, why they would withdraw the ending they had, only to please a certain-type of fanbase? 

There would be a severe backlash, and the whole shaningan of the endings would return. I know numerous people who are pleased with the ending outcome now, espicially with the extended-cut. It would be a royal slap in the face just to say "Oh yeah, that was all just Indoctrination, so you'll have to purchase our DLC/DL it and actually play the game to get the canon-ending". The majority are actually fine with the ending, your average gamer won't raise his fist and get angry, he'll accept for what is given and continue onwards. Taking back the ending to retcon and please the IT fans (Who are are a vocal minority, please don't take that as an insult) is not a very good strategical move for any company. That's like trying to remove steaks from a grillbar and add veggies all around to please the veggie fans more. 

[Eryri]

Restrider wrote...

I have one remark to make:
It is one common interpretation amongst ITers to assume that the slideshows are part of the hallucination - something like Shepard's mind justifying his decision and showing him a future with hope.
Furthermore it is considered that the Normandy crash-landing on that garden world is also part of this hallucination, to give him closure regarding his closest friends and LI (I'd like to mention otter's interpretation that the garden world and the sinister forest of Shepard's dreams are antagonizing scenery - a shame that his posts were utterly ignored during the troll-fest and internal bickering).

Now, it is obvious that the garden world where all stargazer scenes take place have a familiar sky setting. I think it is save to assume that these planets are indeed identical.
If we assume that the first time this planet is shown to us is during a hallucinatory state, then the second time we see this planet - namely the stargazer scene - should be also part of a hallucination. If we assume this, what meaning does the stargazer actually have for the real world? None...?

Again, this is my personal interpretation.

Interesting. It's a shame Otter's post got lost in the trolling as you say. Pre EC we could assume that the Stargazer was decended from the stranded Normany crew. There's no reason to think that now, so why set the scene on what looks like the same planet?

Another thought occured to me while reading your post. The Refuse version of the stargazer scene takes place on the exact same planet as the original three, but with different people, and presumably in a different period of time, after at least one 50,000 year cycle has passed.

Really and truly, in our vast galaxy with its probably countless worlds, how likely is it that that exact same world would be settled, and an elderly person would take their grandchild out to the forest to tell them a story, in the exact same spot as their counterparts from a parallel version of events, separated by over 50,000 years of time?

To me, the Stargazer scene seems less and less likely to be intended literally, the more I think about it.

Modifié par Eryri, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[IronSabbath88]

The fact that this next DLC is referred to as "Citadel" DLC and we just so happen to end up at the Citadel at the end of the game.. seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Also, is it just me or does the big "moon" in the picture of stargazer kind of look like Earth... still burning?

[ElSuperGecko]

Fingertrip wrote...
Obviously referring to the conlussion. It is unchanged, and the three choices (+1) was added, but ineveitably- it wasn't any rainbow and sunshine ending to it all. The extra content only expands the story-arc, but it doesn't change the outcome, which has been stressed numerous times that it won't be changed? 

And who expects the outcome to be changed, exactly?

From Ashes, the EC, Leviathan and Omega all added more content to Shepard's story and expenaded the story arc, yes - and they all also provided varying levels of context into the Catalyst and Shepard's final decision, for those with the wit and observational skills to see it.

IT doesn't NEED to change the endings to be changed.  A lot of people would like to see it, certyainly, but it doesn't NEED to happen.  ME3 can end Shepard's story, and the endings can stay exactly as they are, for all time, and IT would still be a perfectly valid interpretation.

[spotlessvoid]

NO BIOWARE DEVELOPER HAS EVER SAID THERE WOULDN'T BE ADDITIONAL ENDING CONTENT.

Community Managers only.

[Restrider]

IronSabbath88 wrote...
Also, is it just me or does the big "moon" in the picture of stargazer kind of look like Earth... still burning?

I do not see it. I only see cloud formations - nothing of Earth's specific geography.

[401 Kill]

Rifneno wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...
So, are you here for any other reason that to repeatedly state over and over that "it won't be changed"?
BioWare has said NUMEROUS things in the past. Everything ranging from denying Arrival and such when it was leaked for ME2. That said, I personally don't feel changing the ending is the same as an expansion on the ending.

I know, right?  Especially when it comes to how things would play out in ME3, BW hasn't just told a few little white lies, they've told more bald face lies than they have told the truth.  But now all of a sudden, we can trust things that they say absolutely.  There's no chance that they're lying now, because they're saying something the literalists want to believe.  And it's not even the real writers, it's most or all community relations people who almost certainly aren't in the loop.

But I suppose this ******-poor pattern recognition is part of why they're literalists to begin with.

If Bioware ever says something, it is 95% the complete opposite. When they said "No ABC endings" we got ABC endings. When they said "No new endings" in the EC, we got a new ending. When they dropped the Alternate appearance pack for our squad, they alluded to it being used in Omega. But no, we couldn't use it because no squadmates were allowed.

Remember- Whatever they say, the opposite happens. Those jokesters.

[spotlessvoid]

How about the clouds being partly behind the planet? First Pic

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[dorktainian]

i see a rip off of a piece of artwork circling the world wide web.

[spotlessvoid]

dorktainian wrote...

i see a rip off of a piece of artwork circling the world wide web.

Wait until you find out where else it was used

[Restrider]

spotlessvoid wrote...

How about the clouds being partly behind the planet? First Pic

Do you mean the part that I've highlighted (high five for crappy MS Paint job!)?



I am not sure, could just be an optical illusion...

Edit: But I'd like to discuss my assumptions rather than some oddities in the pictures.

Modifié par Restrider, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Eryri]

dorktainian wrote...

i see a rip off of a piece of artwork circling the world wide web.

I see the minor miracle of a huge but damaged spaceship, landing perfectly in a mountainous jungle, without so much as breaking a twig or setting fire to some leaves.

That's either proof of shoddy design and writing, or that it's not meant to be taken literally. Being an optimist, I choose to believe the latter. 

Modifié par Eryri, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:49 .

[IronSabbath88]

Fingertrip wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Can also someone explain to me where they said they would release extra content for Shepard and to change his story-arc?

I'm confused.  Weren't Leviathan and Omega extra content for Shepard?  Didn't they change Shepard's story arc?

Aren't we expecting more similar content in the next few months?  Won't that change Shepard's story arc?

Obviously referring to the conlussion. It is unchanged, and the three choices (+1) was added, but ineveitably- it wasn't any rainbow and sunshine ending to it all. The extra content only expands the story-arc, but it doesn't change the outcome, which has been stressed numerous times that it won't be changed? 

So, are you here for any other reason that to repeatedly state over and over that "it won't be changed"?

BioWare has said NUMEROUS things in the past. Everything ranging from denying Arrival and such when it was leaked for ME2. That said, I personally don't feel changing the ending is the same as an expansion on the ending.

And who's to say the hints of Indoctrination is not just messing with you, making you believe in false ideals and false hope? Same application can be used in this matter, and I even stresse that in the original post. I'm looking for reason for discussion based on business, economics and design of a company, why they would withdraw the ending they had, only to please a certain-type of fanbase? 

There would be a severe backlash, and the whole shaningan of the endings would return. I know numerous people who are pleased with the ending outcome now, espicially with the extended-cut. It would be a royal slap in the face just to say "Oh yeah, that was all just Indoctrination, so you'll have to purchase our DLC/DL it and actually play the game to get the canon-ending". The majority are actually fine with the ending, your average gamer won't raise his fist and get angry, he'll accept for what is given and continue onwards. Taking back the ending to retcon and please the IT fans (Who are are a vocal minority, please don't take that as an insult) is not a very good strategical move for any company. That's like trying to remove steaks from a grillbar and add veggies all around to please the veggie fans more. 

You know, for me and most fans it's not even ALL about indoctrination theory coming true, or even Shepard surviving. It's about the ENDING MAKING SENSE. What do people not get about that? For someone who has played all 3 Mass Effect games from the start, spent countless hours doing multiple playthroughs and every DLC connecting the stories together, I just want an ending that makes sense within the context of the universe.

What we have now is one big failure in regards to what we've been told throughout the series. We have SEEN synthesis firsthand in Saren Arterius and David Archer. It has NEVER been a good thing. Ever. We've firsthand seen organics and synthetics co-exist peacefully, not just the Geth & Quarians but EDI and Shepard/the crew aswell! We've been shown that by all accounts The Illusive Man is an egomaniac with some sick fascination in understanding the enemy who has been destroying the very people he's sworn himself to protect and have the best interest in, yet CONTROL is a viable option?

Nevermind the fact that the people who DO have the best interests of the galaxy in mind (Anderson, Hackett, etc.) aren't interested in hearing any other explanations other than destroying the reapers. Shall we mention how sick keeping the reapers around or having some of their essence inside you when they may have very well destroyed someone's families? WHY would someone want to live with themselves after that? That's not Shepard being a hero, that's Shepard being a monster.

Oh, and I'm sure Javik would LOVE to become part synthetic and/or keep the reapers around, I mean they only massacred his entire race after all and doomed him to a life of solitude. Yeah, he's totally game for that.

In general, I just want an ending that makes me go "YES! THIS is how Mass Effect should end!" whether or not it involves indoctrination, IT or anything of that sense. I want to know Harbinger had some grand scheme, and there's been some damn good things to come out of the woodwork lately, including:

- Harbinger actually BEING the intelligence referred to by Leviathan

- Cerberus building a new human reaper, being used by the reapers to do the same purpose the Collectors were doing

These are both awesome reveals that I'm sure the fanbase would absolutely love, and for me, would reinvigorate my love of the series.

But to really think those endings do justice to the context of the Mass Effect universe... I just can't get that way of thinking. Especially when from what we've seen, the endings are very suspect in a lot of places... something is DEFINITELY not right.

[IronSabbath88]

 I'd like to add on one final thing to that past post.
Remember at the end of Mass Effect 2? When the Collectors are defeated and their human reaper plans demolished by Shepard?
"You have failed. WE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY. 

Releasing control"

Hmm.. Cerberus?

[spotlessvoid]

Restrider...possible for sure, but I don't know if you can say they're the same definitively

[DoomsdayDevice]

spotlessvoid wrote...

How about the clouds being partly behind the planet? First Pic

No, the clouds are in front of the moon. The only visble part of the moon is the outline that catches the light of the star. The shadow side of the moon is too dark to 'penetrate' the blue of the sky.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 06 décembre 2012 - 11:11 .