80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Norlond]

Problem solving after Problem shaping by using Critical thinking

"Critical thinking is important wherever the quality of human thinking
significantly impacts the quality of life (of any sentient creature)."

Let's see if it applies to the Decision Chamber

[MaximizedAction]

Jaison1986 wrote...

You know, I was thinking, Bioware really pinned themselves against an wall when they stated that they are planning an new mass effec game. There are 3 different endings to expand and canonizing only one of them would certanly cause a lot of fan rage. But what if the next DLC actually give us something similar to IT? Wouldn't that give us only one true ending were Bioware could easily expand on for the next sequel?

Yeah, look at it from this point of view:
Something like a hallucinated ending allows exactly that kind of variety for the endings while not excluding sequels and not trivializing the trilogy.
Whatever (if) comes as post-ending material should somehow bring it all together, where you really have to defeat the Reapers.

[CmdrShep80]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

So here's my lil list of that symbol:

1 Outside the airlock accompanied by a warning falling sign.  Strange we never use the airlock like in ME1.  Standing in the airlock has a bit of a different ambience than just outside it

2 and 3 next to the door leading to the cockpit/airlock

4 and 5 opposite each other on the edges of the CIC just after the staircase down

6 on the inside of the scanner room with the two privates.  Strange just one on one side of the scanner

7 just outside the conference room next to a no step arrow sign

8 on the right wall of the crucible room (looking toward the scanner room/door)

9 and 10 on the left wall of the crucible room (looking toward the scanner room/door).  This area has the most "sound effects" and is just plain omg full of weird effects that stop the second you walk into the QEC or the scanner room.

11 in the QEC room.  Different pitch horn heard (symbol for reference)



Inverted symbol 1 Inv in shuttle bay strangely no symbol like above found despite the weird sounds in there (will post a clear one of this down below)

12, 13, 14, 15 all below decks of Engineering where Jack was all in a square.  Strangely none in Engineering itself if it was fusion related.

16 on the right opposite wall of the memorial (if staring at the crew quarters elevator)

17 behind the couch in the port observations room with a lit cigarette on the table kid laughing too

18 around the corner from Chef's kitchen

19 around the corner from 18 in front of Liara's door (strangely none in Liara's room)

Inverted symbol 2 Inv and 3 Inv on two yellow pods next to the stairs across from Chef's kitchen

20 and 21 on the opposite walls of each other if you take the right path if staring at the crew quarters elevator.  More kids laughing

Inverted symbol 4 Inv, 5 Inv, 6 Inv, 7 Inv 8 Inv next to each medical table in Dr. Chakwas' room.  This is the best picture I can get of one.  Why the alien language on an Alliance ship I don't know.  It's hard to see but it's actually two separate letters.



Inverted symbol 9 Inv, 10 Inv, 11 Inv, 12 Inv 13 Inv all in the AI computer room

Inverted symbol 14 Inv, 15 Inv, 16 Inv, 17 Inv 18 Inv, 19 Inv, 20 Inv, 21 Inv all lining the stasis/sleep pods (I wish they kept that from ME1)

Inverted symbol 22 Inv next to Garrus' feet in the Thanix cannon room


Soooo, so far I found 21 of the first symbol picture on the Normandy and nearly each of those has weird things going on next to or near them.

and 22 of the inverted symbols in the above picture (I'm calling it that since it looks inverted to me).  Nothing seems to happen next to those. 

There are none in Shepard's quarters, Javik's quarters, Life Support, Engineering upper decks, the men's room, Liara's room, Aller's room, the crew's quarters, and Ashley's room

Also what's fun is while doing this I crashed the game several times and so when I walked off the CIC galaxy map, I fell off, and Shepard drew an invisible gun for a second then realized he didn't need it and put his hands down.

[CmdrShep80]

*helps gets us all back on track from when I left*

[KyreneZA]

On troll: Yes, do not engage them, do not even discuss them. Anything but ignoring them utterly plays into their hands. As, ironically, I've also just done.

So... while we're kinda on the subject of Refuse again...

Why is it a Liara hologram that's presenting the 'facts' in the Refuse ending? I thought she programmed the time capsules to have Shepard deliver the news to future cycles. There's even that whole cutscene in Shepard's cabin where she first presents the idea. Another 'oversight/bad writing' by BioWare in the EC, or another figment of an indoctrinated mind?

[paxxton]

@CmdrShep80: Great find but a video would help all of us to comprehend its magnitude.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 décembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[CmdrShep80]

paxxton wrote...

@CmdrShep80: Great find but a video would help all of us to comprehend its magnitude.

i know. Something I have to think about. Plus it helps me at least know where they are if I do. Beats the senseless wandering around looking for things I can't find at least it gives me a purpose

[CmdrShep80]

By the way, I couldn't find the person walking around outside the ship. The only one I could find with super loud boots is that guy you can salute

Edit - ok that didn't make sense. I couldn't hear the person's boots from outside the ship. I could only hear the guy you salute

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:06 .

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The problem is that one interpretation (literal) makes people hate BioWare so much and at the same time those "fans" openly refuse the possibility of another interpretation (IT). In the end BioWare will lose.

Not really Pax.

If IT is not true, then Bioware will lose a lot more fans. Some ITers are okay with the endings, but some are not. Literalist either hate or love the endings. So Bioware if they don't do IT again will loose more fans.

If Bioware does IT, then ITers stay as their fans. ME fans that have moved on will come back, and see how it plays out. Literalist that hate the endings will see want to see if the IT dlc, or game, or expansion will play out. People that like the ending, can not down load the next dlc.

Thus in the end everyone wins.

Literalist get their ending, while we get ours. Of course some literalist will tell us " They did this to shut us up, or Shepard was not being Indoctrinated at the end, and Bioware only did this to please you whiners to shut up."

Yet again everyone wins.

So a good IT ending can defend itself when revealed and fans that are genuinely passionate about the series (ITists or Literalists) will be able to appreciate its value. Let's hope stubbornness of some Literalists won't get the better of them.

[paxxton]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

By the way, I couldn't find the person walking around outside the ship. The only one I could find with super loud boots is that guy you can salute

Edit - ok that didn't make sense. I couldn't hear the person's boots from outside the ship. I could only hear the guy you salute

There are actually to saluting soldiers on the Normandy. On the Crew's Deck and in the room with the Galaxy Map.

I think DJBare once pointed out that those sounds are simply glitches. The game doesn't unload them from memory between elevator rides.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:24 .

[Norlond]

From Psychological manipulation:

"According to Simon, successful psychological manipulation primarily involves:
- manipulator concealing aggressive intentions and behaviors"
Checked
"- manipulator knowing the psychological vulnerabilities of the victim to determine what tactics are likely to be the most effective. "
Starbrat being Starbrat: Checked
"- manipulator having a sufficient level of ruthlessness to have no qualms about causing harm to the victim if necessary."
"So be it! The cycle continues!" Checked

"Simon identified the following manipulative techniques:

- Lying
- Lying by omission (lying by withholding truth)
- Denial (has done nothing wrong)
- Rationalisation (as excuse)
- Minimization (behavior is not as harmful as others think)
- Selective inattention or selective attention (ignores anything that distracts from his agenda)
- Diversion (not giving straight answer to straight question)
- Evasion (giving irrelevant, vague responses)
- Covert intimidation (throwing victim onto defensive)
- Guilt tripping (make victim feel guilty, selfish...)
- Shaming (increase self-doubt)
- Playing the victim role ("poor me")
- Vilifying the victim (putting victim onto defensive while masking aggressive behavior)
- Playing the servant role (of a noble cause)
- Seduction (charm, praise, flattery)
- Projecting the blame (just blaming others)
- Feigning innocence (any harm done was not intentional)
- Feigning confusion (playing dumb)
- Brandishing anger (acting angry)"

Starbrat does almost everything of these things, especially the bold ones

"Manipulation strategy:
1: Assessment phase: Determining the victims potential and its weak points
2: Manipulation phase: Putting on a mask and using the above techniques
3: Abandonment phase: If victim is no longer useful. It can happen quickly and without the victim knowing the manipulators intentions"

3 kind of applies to Refuse I think

Everything is paraphrased, I didn't want to just copy everything

Modifié par Norlond, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:31 .

[CoolioThane]

Norlond wrote...

From Psychological manipulation:

"According to Simon, successful psychological manipulation primarily involves:
- manipulator concealing aggressive intentions and behaviors"
Checked
"- manipulator knowing the psychological vulnerabilities of the victim to determine what tactics are likely to be the most effective. "
Starbrat being Starbrat: Checked
"- manipulator having a sufficient level of ruthlessness to have no qualms about causing harm to the victim if necessary."
"So be it! The cycle continues!" Checked

"Simon identified the following manipulative techniques:

- Lying
- Lying by omission (lying by withholding truth)
- Denial (has done nothing wrong)
- Rationalisation (as excuse)
- Minimization (behavior is not as harmful as others think)
- Selective inattention or selective attention (ignores anything that distracts from his agenda)
- Diversion (not giving straight answer to straight question)
- Evasion (giving irrelevant, vague responses)
- Covert intimidation (throwing victim onto defensive)
- Guilt tripping (make victim feel guilty, selfish...)
- Shaming (increase self-doubt)
- Playing the victim role ("poor me")
- Vilifying the victim (putting victim onto defensive while masking aggressive behavior)
- Playing the servant role (of a noble cause)
- Seduction (charm, praise, flattery)
- Projecting the blame (just blaming others)
- Feigning innocence (any harm done was not intentional)
- Feigning confusion (playing dumb)
- Brandishing anger (acting angry)"

Starbrat does almost everything of these things, especially the bold ones

"Manipulation strategy:
1: Assessment phase: Determining the victims potential and its weak points
2: Manipulation phase: Putting on a mask and using the above techniques
3: Abandonment phase: If victim is no longer useful. It can happen quickly and without the victim knowing the manipulators intentions"

3 kind of applies to Refuse I think

Everything is paraphrased, I didn't want to just copy everything

Fantastic post. Further proof the Starkid is full of ****

[paxxton]

If the Starchild is in fact a manifestation of a Reaper in Shepard's mind, no doubt he knows his psychological vulnerabilities, as confirmed by Chris Priestly when he said back in August that the Starchild is formed from Shepard's memories. If he can access Shepard's mind, there's no reason why wouldn't he scan other areas involved in behavior or thought forming.

Modifié par paxxton, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:38 .

[RavenEyry]

Brilliant stuff. I feel rationalisation should be bolded too because of the whole "What, genocide isn't considered polite in your culture? I was just trying to help' thing.

[dorktainian]

paxxton wrote...

If the Starchild is in fact a manifestation of a Reaper in Shepard's mind, no doubt he knows his psychological vulnerabilities, as confirmed by Chris Priestly when he said back in August that the Starchild is formed from Shepard's memories. If he can access Shepard's mind, there's no reason why wouldn't he scan other areas involved in behavior or thought forming.

this could explain why TIM wanted shepard restoring exactly as he was, rather than just a puppet for cerberus.

[MaximizedAction]

RavenEyry wrote...

Brilliant stuff. I feel rationalisation should be bolded too because of the whole "What, genocide isn't considered polite in your culture? I was just trying to help' thing.

Yes! The more (proper and objective) research one does the less probably the idea becomes that the Guardian might be telling the truth. There's just too much of the pattern of deception and manipulation (as seen in Norlond's beautiful post).

EDIT:
Man, Norlond's post is even worthy of its own thread....sadly, it'd be locked down because it's IT related and we already have our own thread.
But maybe byne could link it in the OP?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:31 .

[Norlond]

Fun Fact: I used the name Norlond from 2007-2010, and (irl friends aside) noone noticed (used the name in ~3 MMOs) there's two O's and not an O and an A in the name

[Andromidius]

Nice stuff, Norlond.  Though I will underline the parts I think apply as well as the bolded ones you did.

Norlond wrote...

From Psychological manipulation:

"According to Simon, successful psychological manipulation primarily involves:
- manipulator concealing aggressive intentions and behaviors"
Checked
"- manipulator knowing the psychological vulnerabilities of the victim to determine what tactics are likely to be the most effective. "
Starbrat being Starbrat: Checked
"- manipulator having a sufficient level of ruthlessness to have no qualms about causing harm to the victim if necessary."
"So be it! The cycle continues!" Checked

- Lying
- Lying by omission (lying by withholding truth)
- Denial (has done nothing wrong)
- Rationalisation (as excuse)
- Minimization (behavior is not as harmful as others think)
- Selective inattention or selective attention (ignores anything that distracts from his agenda)
- Diversion (not giving straight answer to straight question)
- Evasion (giving irrelevant, vague responses)
- Covert intimidation (throwing victim onto defensive)
- Guilt tripping (make victim feel guilty, selfish...)
- Shaming (increase self-doubt)
- Playing the victim role ("poor me")
- Vilifying the victim (putting victim onto defensive while masking aggressive behavior)
- Playing the servant role (of a noble cause)
- Seduction (charm, praise, flattery)
- Projecting the blame (just blaming others)
- Feigning innocence (any harm done was not intentional)
- Feigning confusion (playing dumb)
- Brandishing anger (acting angry)"

[/i]Starbrat does almost everything of these things, especially the bold ones

"Manipulation strategy:
1: Assessment phase: Determining the victims potential and its weak points
2: Manipulation phase: Putting on a mask and using the above techniques
3: Abandonment phase: If victim is no longer useful. It can happen quickly and without the victim knowing the manipulators intentions"

3 kind of applies to Refuse I think

Everything is paraphrased, I didn't want to just copy everything

So pretty much all of it.  The only thing Starbinger doesn't do is play the victim card.

He does everything else, to a greater or less degree.

Modifié par Andromidius, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:56 .

[Linkforlife]

I am not sure if this was brought up before, but that pulsing disco ball thing you pick up in ME2, could that be a Leviathan artifact? If it is, it might be another piece of the puzzle. If not, it is just a useless floating disco ball.

[Jusseb]

They look awfull familiar, the same as in ME1 on that side mission when you find that huge glowing ball and you lose consciousness.

[RavenEyry]

Another possible indoc source right there. The mysterious and quite probably reaper based orb that Shepard keeps in their cabin for some reason.

[paxxton]

Linkforlife wrote...

I am not sure if this was brought up before, but that pulsing disco ball thing you pick up in ME2, could that be a Leviathan artifact? If it is, it might be another piece of the puzzle. If not, it is just a useless floating disco ball.

It sure does look similar.

[Jusseb]

I mean this one ; http://social.biowar.../index/15224788

Modifié par Jusseb, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:01 .

[paxxton]

Jusseb wrote...

I mean this one ; http://social.biowar.../index/15224788

Mind-blowing!!!

Modifié par paxxton, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[demersel]

Andromidius wrote...

Nice stuff, Norlond.  Though I will underline the parts I think apply as well as the bolded ones you did.

Norlond wrote...

From Psychological manipulation:

"According to Simon, successful psychological manipulation primarily involves:
- manipulator concealing aggressive intentions and behaviors"
Checked
"- manipulator knowing the psychological vulnerabilities of the victim to determine what tactics are likely to be the most effective. "
Starbrat being Starbrat: Checked
"- manipulator having a sufficient level of ruthlessness to have no qualms about causing harm to the victim if necessary."
"So be it! The cycle continues!" Checked

- Lying
- Lying by omission (lying by withholding truth)
- Denial (has done nothing wrong)
- Rationalisation (as excuse)
- Minimization (behavior is not as harmful as others think)
- Selective inattention or selective attention (ignores anything that distracts from his agenda)
- Diversion (not giving straight answer to straight question)
- Evasion (giving irrelevant, vague responses)
- Covert intimidation (throwing victim onto defensive)
- Guilt tripping (make victim feel guilty, selfish...)
- Shaming (increase self-doubt)
- Playing the victim role ("poor me")
- Vilifying the victim (putting victim onto defensive while masking aggressive behavior)
- Playing the servant role (of a noble cause)
- Seduction (charm, praise, flattery)
- Projecting the blame (just blaming others)
- Feigning innocence (any harm done was not intentional)
- Feigning confusion (playing dumb)
- Brandishing anger (acting angry)"

[/i]Starbrat does almost everything of these things, especially the bold ones

"Manipulation strategy:
1: Assessment phase: Determining the victims potential and its weak points
2: Manipulation phase: Putting on a mask and using the above techniques
3: Abandonment phase: If victim is no longer useful. It can happen quickly and without the victim knowing the manipulators intentions"

3 kind of applies to Refuse I think

Everything is paraphrased, I didn't want to just copy everything

So pretty much all of it.  The only thing Starbinger doesn't do is play the victim card.

He does everything else, to a greater or less degree.

He does play the victim card. First by suggesting that the reapers are controlled by him (not their fault they kill everyone) - then he says that he was created to find a solution - (he himself is a slave to logic and how the world works - not his fault)