80611 réponses à ce sujet

[FifthBeatle]

I only asked about Saren and the Beacon because the fact that so few people knew about it (mostly Humans) combined with the fact Udina is indoctrinated, makes me wonder if he was the mole that told Saren/the Reapers. And that's not to mention the part in the codex about "well placed political figures..."

I'm really enjoying replaying the trilogy.

[Krimzie]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Krimzie wrote...


Maybe, but I kind of feel like the sound engineers are far from lazy, according to the comment on this article.

Very well spotted! You're correct... there's actually a few other places we used elements of Vigil in both ME2 and ME3. In fact, we laced the entire game with a lot of audio Easter eggs... some fun, some tied to the narrative and some that go pretty far down the psychology rabbit hole
Rob Blake 
Audio Lead - Mass Effect franchise 
Bioware - EA

Hey Krimzie, you reading my Words of Awesome, or did you just stumble across that?

Hi Banshee! I have been reading the Words of Awesome, but I didn't see this on there! Someone made a passing reference to it a couple hundred pages back so I went Google-crazy with "rabbit hole" and "sounds" and "ME3" and eventually found what they were talking about. Sigh, if only everyone embedded links all the time.

Oh, PS bytheway, did you catch my obsessively nerdy neuron imagery post two pages back? Do you think it's a stretch, or do you think the art designers had brains in mind during the dream design?

Modifié par Krimzie, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:55 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

paxxton wrote...

Look! An improved version of ME3.


LOL. DJHarbinger is awesome.

I like the Batarian DJ.
"Ain't seen **** that brutal since the Skyllian Blitz!!"

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:58 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Krimzie wrote...

 Hey thread. So I am procrastinating instead of writing, but I was researching neural decay and something hit me. I know that people have mentioned that the trees in Shepard's dreams look more like neurons than trees, but then I always wondered what was with the flakes in the air, the clumpy leaf piles, and the fact that some of the trees have more roots than branches. Seriously, those root tangles are odd -- like the end of a double pyramidal neuron cell. 

Anyway, threw these together (because it's more fun than writing and makes me appear productive), so I'll just leave 'em here. It's fun for the art-interested! And if you like cell stuff, google cell-based jewlery! Coolest thing ever. 

Interesting. Reminds me a lot of Jade's post. I'll link it in a sec. Also, the flakes, according to the leaked script, are ash. Shepard (copy) and the kid would burn as usual but they would also turn to ash and reveal that the "snow" in the dreams is ash. At least, that's what Bioware said. Totally agree with the roots/branches/neurons though!

Edit: Ha I didn't even see your above post!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:59 .

[FifthBeatle]

Also, I feel like Udina's story is incomplete: There is that comic with Bailey, the fact that its never really explained how he is indoctrinated, the weird video of him and Anderson fighting in the Shadow Broker's archive...

Maybe it will be explained in the upcoming DLC, like how Aria's story was.

[byne]

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, I feel like Udina's story is incomplete: There is that comic with Bailey, the fact that its never really explained how he is indoctrinated, the weird video of him and Anderson fighting in the Shadow Broker's archive...

Maybe it will be explained in the upcoming DLC, like how Aria's story was.

I still dont know if I buy that Udina was actually indoctrinated and not just power-hungry.

I feel like he's just following through on his ME1 speech, and is using Cerberus as the means to take control of the Council.

[BansheeOwnage]

Krimzie wrote...

Oh, PS bytheway, did you catch my obsessively nerdy neuron imagery post two pages back? Do you think it's a stretch, or do you think the art designers had brains in mind during the dream design?

I definitely think they had brains in mind (minds in mind? Brains on the brain? )
Also, being obsessively nerdy is just being very passionate! And there's certainly nothing wrong with passion.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, I feel like Udina's story is incomplete: There is that comic with Bailey, the fact that its never really explained how he is indoctrinated, the weird video of him and Anderson fighting in the Shadow Broker's archive...

Maybe it will be explained in the upcoming DLC, like how Aria's story was.

I still dont know if I buy that Udina was actually indoctrinated and not just power-hungry.

I feel like he's just following through on his ME1 speech, and is using Cerberus as the means to take control of the Council.

According to the leaked script, he was indoctrinated.

[BansheeOwnage]

Here you go Krimzie, and everyone else. Just some more food for thought. Where better to think that a dream?

Jade8aby88 wrote...


Just thought I'd drop off some thoughts..

I'm currently doing my certificate III in non-emergency patient transport and this entire week we've been looking at brain function and deterioration. Mostly to do with Alzhiemer's and Dementia.

What I found most interesting is that Brain Neuro patterns look amazingly similiar to this...



And, in fact.. Act to work together by "synthesizing" with each other to gain logical throught processes and movements. Now, this is the first dream sequence...

Now, notice the second dream sequence.




They are significantly blurred and distorted...

Now look at what happens with proper brain function..




And now with a dementia affected neurological Pathway




Some "circuits" are greyed out as the dementia deteriorates the brain function. Now compare this to the "trees" from the dream sequences....


Now, lastly, in the 3rd dream sequence it starts off with the kid and no trees. Which could only stand to reason (according to this theory) that the "indoctrinated" part of the brain has totally taken over and started burning holes in Shepard's actual brain... Evidenced by this...




Oh and, for the record, this is what the "synthesis" refers to between neurological co-operation.



Which you can also see occuring in the previous picture of normal brain function also.

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, I feel like Udina's story is incomplete: There is that comic with Bailey, the fact that its never really explained how he is indoctrinated, the weird video of him and Anderson fighting in the Shadow Broker's archive...

Maybe it will be explained in the upcoming DLC, like how Aria's story was.

I still dont know if I buy that Udina was actually indoctrinated and not just power-hungry.

I feel like he's just following through on his ME1 speech, and is using Cerberus as the means to take control of the Council.

According to the leaked script, he was indoctrinated.

Oh? Does it ever explain how he became indoctrinated?

Its interesting that yet again, the bad guy isnt just being a dick becaus he feels like it, as usual, we're fighting against indoctrinated agents.

[Lokanaiya]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, I feel like Udina's story is incomplete: There is that comic with Bailey, the fact that its never really explained how he is indoctrinated, the weird video of him and Anderson fighting in the Shadow Broker's archive...

Maybe it will be explained in the upcoming DLC, like how Aria's story was.

I still dont know if I buy that Udina was actually indoctrinated and not just power-hungry.

I feel like he's just following through on his ME1 speech, and is using Cerberus as the means to take control of the Council.

According to the leaked script, he was indoctrinated.

It's still just speculation, and he wouldn't have to be indoctrinated to help Cerberus with the coup.

[FifthBeatle]

Either way, it is never dirextly explained why Udina Cerberus.

[BansheeOwnage]

Lokanaiya wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

Also, I feel like Udina's story is incomplete: There is that comic with Bailey, the fact that its never really explained how he is indoctrinated, the weird video of him and Anderson fighting in the Shadow Broker's archive...

Maybe it will be explained in the upcoming DLC, like how Aria's story was.

I still dont know if I buy that Udina was actually indoctrinated and not just power-hungry.

I feel like he's just following through on his ME1 speech, and is using Cerberus as the means to take control of the Council.

According to the leaked script, he was indoctrinated.

It's still just speculation, and he wouldn't have to be indoctrinated to help Cerberus with the coup.

I get your point, but it's not speculation in the leaked script.

@Byne Quote from leaked script:
You get in to C-SEC HQ, and finds the evidence being destroyed by a Cerberus double agent. Extracting the information from him, you discover that Udina is indoctrinated and will soon launch a coup d'état to overthrow the Citadel Council.

It doesn't say exactly how though. The leaked script is basically writers' notes.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:16 .

[Krimzie]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Here you go Krimzie, and everyone else. Just some more food for thought. Where better to think that a dream?

Jade8aby88 wrote...
*snip*

Whoa! We're brain twins! Thanks for the repost, Banshee. I always feel cowed when I bring up old discussion, but this is too cool to me to pass up.

I figured someone else had at least caught the neuron shaped trees, so it's good to know I'm not nuts! The neural plaque aspect reflected in the chunky leaves was new to me and kinda adds to Jade's exploration, so that's pretty awesome.

Now the question is this... do the brain art allusions merely reference the fact that Shepard's having a dream, or do they allude to the degradation of her brain, a la indoctrination? The neuron trees alone don't seem to feed the IT, but the possible flaking dead cells, and the possible neural plaque and tangles, seem to hint at something actually breaking down Shep's brain. Add that to the infrasound and Reaper chortles, and you've got a little more than a stress nighmare...

[masster blaster]

Udina....um now that is an intresting question was he Indoctrinated? I see no hints/ clues that he was Indoctrinated. However Udina played it very well until the end. Why did Udina try to blow his cover, if he knew Shepard was now with him?

Also when did Udina have ties with Cerberus? Oh...OH MY..


Okay crazy idea, what if Udina was going to let Cerberus use the Citadle as a base of operations/ take power of the galaxy's council systems. You see with Udina telling everyone that the Reapers attacked the Citadle, and would have won, if not for Cerberus.

The way I see it is that. Udina was a figure head for Cerberus. Udina get's Cerberus to help humanity win this war, while Cerberus get's fresh new supplys of test subjects.

[BansheeOwnage]

Krimzie wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Here you go Krimzie, and everyone else. Just some more food for thought. Where better to think that a dream?

Jade8aby88 wrote...
*snip*

Whoa! We're brain twins! Thanks for the repost, Banshee. I always feel cowed when I bring up old discussion, but this is too cool to me to pass up.

I figured someone else had at least caught the neuron shaped trees, so it's good to know I'm not nuts! The neural plaque aspect reflected in the chunky leaves was new to me and kinda adds to Jade's exploration, so that's pretty awesome.

Now the question is this... do the brain art allusions merely reference the fact that Shepard's having a dream, or do they allude to the degradation of her brain, a la indoctrination? The neuron trees alone don't seem to feed the IT, but the possible flaking dead cells, and the possible neural plaque and tangles, seem to hint at something actually breaking down Shep's brain. Add that to the infrasound and Reaper chortles, and you've got a little more than a stress nighmare...

Certainly something more. You don't just put in all that plus oily shadows and indestinguishable whispers (both confirmed signs of indoctrination) as well as the kid you see in the end and have it be a grand coincidence. Especially if the only way the "Catalyst" could appear like that is if it was in your head on some level.

IT because - well... what else could it be?

And because of this.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:30 .

[paxxton]

Remember that if those are dreams, they take place in Shepard's mind. He is literally in his inner world. It fuels the idea that the forest is a representation for the nerve cells and the connections between the neurons in his head. The trees' roots probably touch underground forming a representation of neural synapses.

[BansheeOwnage]

paxxton wrote...

Remember that if those are dreams, they take place in Shepard's mind. He is literally in his inner world. It fuels the idea that the forest is a representation for the nerve cells and the connections between the neurons in his head. The trees' roots probably touch underground forming a representation of neural synapses.

But like most IT evidence, you could argue that it means nothing. It doesn't have to be indoctrination, it could be just the fact that it's in her head. Not that that is a good argument, it just goes to show why we can't "prove" IT. We have way more than enough evidence for me though!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:45 .

[masster blaster]

Okay I have a crazy idea. Byne/ anyone that has played AC. I think we need to make a list of the most important Indoctrinated agents/ Reaper leaders, to the minor Indoctrinated agents/ Reapers. Under neath each name we will write why did this person, or Reaper does this, or how did he, or she became Indoctrinated. We could have draw lines and connect the people/ Reapers that were involved with eachother. Also Leviathans are going to be on the list too.

So what I am going to do is go to the IT group page, and create a list of people that are Indoctrinated, under going Indoctrination, Reapers, Leviathans, and other people/ Synthetics that were in leage, or suspected of helping the following list of Indoctrinated agents, people under going Indoctrinated agents, and Reapers/ Leviathans.

[Lokanaiya]

I had always thought that was Udina was going to work with Cerberus to seize the Citadel and kill the Council at first, then turn on Cerberus, drive them off the Citadel, and be hailed as a hero. After that, with the other Council members killed, he would take charge with Shepard and actually get stuff DONE. (In fact, at the beginning of ME3 was probably the only time he didn't act as much like a jerkass. He genuinely wanted to help the people back on Earth and was infuriated that the Council wasn't doing anything) With him as the sole leader of the Citadel Council and with Shepard as the icon and leader that he is, he would take the fight to Earth earlier and be more proactive in fighting against the Reapers. The only problem was, Shepard got back to Citadel sooner than expected and heard from the Salarian councilor what Udina's plan was. Hence why he panicked at the sight of Shepard. His plans were all crumbling around him.

Meh, this is really just supposition and speculation... I just prefer to think that Udina actually had a brain and plans and a little moral gray area, not just "INDOCTRINATION LOL" as the only reason for his actions.

[masster blaster]

Okay the new topic on the IT theoristgroupe page is called....

The list of the Indoctrinated. I was going to call it " The consipracy of a Reaper plot", but meh.

[BansheeOwnage]

Lokanaiya wrote...

I had always thought that was Udina was going to work with Cerberus to seize the Citadel and kill the Council at first, then turn on Cerberus, drive them off the Citadel, and be hailed as a hero. After that, with the other Council members killed, he would take charge with Shepard and actually get stuff DONE. (In fact, at the beginning of ME3 was probably the only time he didn't act as much like a jerkass. He genuinely wanted to help the people back on Earth and was infuriated that the Council wasn't doing anything) With him as the sole leader of the Citadel Council and with Shepard as the icon and leader that he is, he would take the fight to Earth earlier and be more proactive in fighting against the Reapers. The only problem was, Shepard got back to Citadel sooner than expected and heard from the Salarian councilor what Udina's plan was. Hence why he panicked at the sight of Shepard. His plans were all crumbling around him.

Meh, this is really just supposition and speculation... I just prefer to think that Udina actually had a brain and plans and a little moral gray area, not just "INDOCTRINATION LOL" as the only reason for his actions.

Cool idea, but I think that's exactly the point. It also supports IT. Basically, the only thing you're fighting the entire game is indoctrination. It's so devious and clever. It's a worthy opponent, especially considering the reapers (with the probably exception of Harbinger) could be indoctrinated themselves! Indoctrination is its own will. You have an epic mind-off at the end. You beat its will with your own, and the will of the galaxy!

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Remember that if those are dreams, they take place in Shepard's mind. He is literally in his inner world. It fuels the idea that the forest is a representation for the nerve cells and the connections between the neurons in his head. The trees' roots probably touch underground forming a representation of neural synapses.

But like most IT evidence, you could argue that it means nothing. It doesn't have to be indoctrination, it could be just the fact that it's in her head. Not that that is a good argument, it just goes to show why we can't "prove" IT. We have way more that enough evidence for me though!

Well, I guess that tree-as-a-neuron representation is quite coherent in this case of a scene happening in Shepard's mind (and specifically inside his brain which is made of neurons). Since there are no trees, flakes, glades, benches or little boys in a human brain, all those things exist in his mind. They are figurative representations of physical phenomena and structures. The kid is a representation of an outside influence on Shepard (and that influence already manifests itself within the structure ofhis brain). Flakes are proteins used to harm neurons. Glades are places in the brain where connections are scarcer. The bench - I dunno - help me out with this one. 

Modifié par paxxton, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:52 .

[Lokanaiya]

I've got to get off guys, it's almost midnight here. G'night!

[Big_Boss9]

Lokanaiya wrote...

I had always thought that was Udina was going to work with Cerberus to seize the Citadel and kill the Council at first, then turn on Cerberus, drive them off the Citadel, and be hailed as a hero. After that, with the other Council members killed, he would take charge with Shepard and actually get stuff DONE. (In fact, at the beginning of ME3 was probably the only time he didn't act as much like a jerkass. He genuinely wanted to help the people back on Earth and was infuriated that the Council wasn't doing anything) With him as the sole leader of the Citadel Council and with Shepard as the icon and leader that he is, he would take the fight to Earth earlier and be more proactive in fighting against the Reapers. The only problem was, Shepard got back to Citadel sooner than expected and heard from the Salarian councilor what Udina's plan was. Hence why he panicked at the sight of Shepard. His plans were all crumbling around him.

Meh, this is really just supposition and speculation... I just prefer to think that Udina actually had a brain and plans and a little moral gray area, not just "INDOCTRINATION LOL" as the only reason for his actions.

I agree. Indoctrination is a clever story device, but it needn't be a catch-all for every single character in the game to explain away their less than altruistic motives. There's certainly a richness of story to explore for certain characters behaving in ways that may counter the protagonist's goals that have absolutely nothing to do with indoctrination and everything to do with their own pride, greed, etc.

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:54 .