80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Fair enough - but as far as I see it, confirmation of the existence of the AI and confirmation of it's motives does not actually preclude the existence of IT.

It's here I'd like to remind people that a primary point of IT is the dream being partially drawn from Shepard's memories. Being told beforehand that an AI created the reapers does not make meeting that Ai any more likely to be real.

So my first Shep never met the Leviathans. Nothing to draw on. As it's as canon as a Shep who met them your point is invalid.

The presence of a 'master of the cycle' is suggested by Vendetta. That alone could be enough.

Also, nowhere is it said that everything in an illusion must be drawn from memories. Surely it is possible for Reapers to introduce a new concept. Hinting at its existence only makes Shepard more likely to accept the idea.

Introducing a concept which happens to be exactly what the Leviathans say?

The most convincing lies are those that are solidly founded in the truth. Also, the suggestion of that presence only makes Shepard more likely to believe in it when confronted with it.

You are avoiding the question. It's not the point that there is a grain of thruth, the point is that it's exactly what the Leviathans say.

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

Ok found an interesting thing - the chatter with Garrus right after thessia mission - there is one place in his speech where sound just goes out for a moment and it is not a bug - happens everytime and the place where it happens is very telling. I'l record and post it.

Things happening every time doesn't say it can't be a bug that happens always at that point.

[demersel]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

Ok found an interesting thing - the chatter with Garrus right after thessia mission - there is one place in his speech where sound just goes out for a moment and it is not a bug - happens everytime and the place where it happens is very telling. I'l record and post it.

Things happening every time doesn't say it can't be a bug that happens always at that point.

Interesting - see how it applies to your own argument )) 

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Good point about EDI. Although she might end up betraying us after all. I would have more faith in AI if they weren't based on Reaper code.

I do want to trust synthetics, my paragon Shep always has. I just have sincere doubts about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

I take it you killed the geth then?

I've always made peace. This is my first playthrough where I will side with the Quarians.

Congrats Doomsday, you've successfully bought the kid's BS.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Good point about EDI. Although she might end up betraying us after all. I would have more faith in AI if they weren't based on Reaper code.

I do want to trust synthetics, my paragon Shep always has. I just have sincere doubts about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

I take it you killed the geth then?

I've always made peace. This is my first playthrough where I will side with the Quarians.

Congrats Doomsday, you've successfully bought the kid's BS.

Proving the Reapers point by trying to fight them

[demersel]

 Check it out people - might be a bug, sure - but the most interesting one - 
www.youtube.com/watch

[hukbum]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

There is no option for a bluff. Also Quarians have scanners. Bluffing wouldn't really work, or at least for max 10 minutes.

I doubt scanners will work. It's a software upgrade, not hardware. The Quarians didn't realize the the reaperupgrade because of scanning, but because of "change in behavior" (more efficent). And 10 min would have been enough. The war ended with words, not with upgrades.
As I said before, I let them upgrade because I've been thinking about the future, but the peace itself would have worked just fine with a bluff. All needed was for both sides to cease fire and use the brain for a moment.

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

 Check it out people - might be a bug, sure - but the most interesting one - 
www.youtube.com/watch

Happens in multiple conversations. Though I can't remember having such issues since the second last update.

[BleedingUranium]

I'm getting very tired of repeating this: Legion's "Reaper" code is no more Reaper tech than our Thanix cannons or the Prothean mass relay on Ilos. Using Reaper tech is bad, but there's nothing wrong with reverse engineering it. That's what those are.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:26 .

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

demersel wrote...

 Check it out people - might be a bug, sure - but the most interesting one - 
www.youtube.com/watch

Happens in multiple conversations. Though I can't remember having such issues since the second last update.

The Leviathan conversations are so bad for this

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Fair enough - but as far as I see it, confirmation of the existence of the AI and confirmation of it's motives does not actually preclude the existence of IT.

It's here I'd like to remind people that a primary point of IT is the dream being partially drawn from Shepard's memories. Being told beforehand that an AI created the reapers does not make meeting that Ai any more likely to be real.

So my first Shep never met the Leviathans. Nothing to draw on. As it's as canon as a Shep who met them your point is invalid.

The presence of a 'master of the cycle' is suggested by Vendetta. That alone could be enough.

Also, nowhere is it said that everything in an illusion must be drawn from memories. Surely it is possible for Reapers to introduce a new concept. Hinting at its existence only makes Shepard more likely to accept the idea.

Introducing a concept which happens to be exactly what the Leviathans say?

The most convincing lies are those that are solidly founded in the truth. Also, the suggestion of that presence only makes Shepard more likely to believe in it when confronted with it.

You are avoiding the question. It's not the point that there is a grain of thruth, the point is that it's exactly what the Leviathans say.

No, it's not exactly what they say. It's a twist on it. I already pointed that out.

Just because the Leviathans confirm that the Reaper AI exists, and that his purpose was something similar to what he claims, does not mean he is completely right and reliable. That's faulty logic.

How do you even know the Leviathans are trustworthy?

The AI could have overridden its original programming for all we know, and the Leviathans might feel it's still fulfilling its purpose 'from a certain point of view'.

Considering what we know about the Reapers, it's unwise and naive to just go along with the suggestions of the Reaper AI.

Unless the point of the game was that the Reapers were right. The only solution to the everlasting conflict is harvesting organics for all eternity, or doing away with organics altogether by 'perfecting them by fully integrating with synthetics'.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:26 .

[MegumiAzusa]

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

There is no option for a bluff. Also Quarians have scanners. Bluffing wouldn't really work, or at least for max 10 minutes.

I doubt scanners will work. It's a software upgrade, not hardware. The Quarians didn't realize the the reaperupgrade because of scanning, but because of "change in behavior" (more efficent). And 10 min would have been enough. The war ended with words, not with upgrades.
As I said before, I let them upgrade because I've been thinking about the future, but the peace itself would have worked just fine with a bluff. All needed was for both sides to cease fire and use the brain for a moment.

Uhm watching the Geth just sitting there adrift because they used their Geth countermeasure for 10 mins is no reason in your opinion to think you bluffed?

[demersel]

Blur - even then people seem to completely miss the point that we fight the reapers not because the have some code in them that are evil (like they are possed by the devil or something) - but because we don't LIKE them, and don't want the alive.
And we don't like them and don't want them alive simple because of the fact that they wish to kill everyone everywhere.

And they wish that not because they have some code in them, but because it is the thing they wish to do. 

Modifié par demersel, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:31 .

[hukbum]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

There is no option for a bluff. Also Quarians have scanners. Bluffing wouldn't really work, or at least for max 10 minutes.

I doubt scanners will work. It's a software upgrade, not hardware. The Quarians didn't realize the the reaperupgrade because of scanning, but because of "change in behavior" (more efficent). And 10 min would have been enough. The war ended with words, not with upgrades.
As I said before, I let them upgrade because I've been thinking about the future, but the peace itself would have worked just fine with a bluff. All needed was for both sides to cease fire and use the brain for a moment.

Uhm watching the Geth just sitting there adrift because they used their Geth countermeasure for 10 mins is no reason in your opinion to think you bluffed?

In case you haven't noticed: The war ended before the upgrade was complete

[DoomsdayDevice]

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'm getting very tired of repeating this: Legion's "Reaper" code is no more Reaper tech than our Thanix cannons or the Prothean mass relay on Ilos. Using Reaper tech is bad, but there's nothing wrong with reverse engineering it. That's what those are.

1. You don't really know he's reverse engineering it.
2. You can't eradicate the code completely in the consensus, the roots remain. It could rewrite itself.

I'm not saying Legion is evil, he might have the best intentions, I'm just saying I'm not so sure about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Gone for now - TTYL y'all.

[AresKeith]

Any news on the new DLC?

[MegumiAzusa]

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

There is no option for a bluff. Also Quarians have scanners. Bluffing wouldn't really work, or at least for max 10 minutes.

I doubt scanners will work. It's a software upgrade, not hardware. The Quarians didn't realize the the reaperupgrade because of scanning, but because of "change in behavior" (more efficent). And 10 min would have been enough. The war ended with words, not with upgrades.
As I said before, I let them upgrade because I've been thinking about the future, but the peace itself would have worked just fine with a bluff. All needed was for both sides to cease fire and use the brain for a moment.

Uhm watching the Geth just sitting there adrift because they used their Geth countermeasure for 10 mins is no reason in your opinion to think you bluffed?

In case you haven't noticed: The war ended before the upgrade was complete

No.

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'm getting very tired of repeating this: Legion's "Reaper" code is no more Reaper tech than our Thanix cannons or the Prothean mass relay on Ilos. Using Reaper tech is bad, but there's nothing wrong with reverse engineering it. That's what those are.

1. You don't really know he's reverse engineering it.
2. You can't eradicate the code completely in the consensus, the roots remain. It could rewrite itself.

I'm not saying Legion is evil, he might have the best intentions, I'm just saying I'm not so sure about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

1. Legion talks like Legion. He never uses the word "indoctrinated" to describe the Heretics in ME2, but that's what he is saying if you read between the lines. Similar to here.

2. You weren't trying to compeletly remove the code, just enough of it to be able to shut down that server, killing all the Geth inside, as well as the Reaper code. Legion's code overwrote the original Reaper code for the rest of the Geth.

Also, bye DD

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[Norlond]

Think of it this way:
Reaper code = poison
But it's the dose that matters. If you only take a very small amount or just some parts of the poison it can have positive effects.

[CoolioThane]

Yo yo yo i am super excited for the DLC

So stoked because I'm getting my train tickets home for THURSDAY! Get to see my family and dog for the first time in 3 months

[BleedingUranium]

Norlond wrote...

Think of it this way:
Reaper code = poison
But it's the dose that matters. If you only take a very small amount or just some parts of the poison it can have positive effects.

More like, if you make alterations to the poison it becomes positive.

[hukbum]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...
In case you haven't noticed: The war ended before the upgrade was complete

No.

Ährm ... when did the fleet stop firing?

[BleedingUranium]

CoolioThane wrote...

Yo yo yo i am super excited for the DLC

So stoked because I'm getting my train tickets home for THURSDAY! Get to see my family and dog for the first time in 3 months

Hooray!

Such a stupid top post

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[RavenEyry]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...
In case you haven't noticed: The war ended before the upgrade was complete

No.

I think he meant they stopped firing before the code was uploaded.