80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Fur28]

BleedingUranium wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

For what The Protheans said
How different is reaper technology like the IFF, from the Mass relays and the Citadel?

If the Reaper tech was built with slaves and stolen resources.
Is it really that different?

How different is using parts of a Reaper to advance your race than using the Mass relay network, not very different.
They both have the same origins.

Right, it's the same.

They could try to replicate some of the reaper technology, like Liara´s dad said with the relays
But if we get rid of the reapers and their tech no longer indoctrinates, i really dont see the problem of using it

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

The comics reveal TIM was indoctrinated on Shanxi during the First Contact War. Saren is involved as well. He is also one of the first Humans to ever step foot on Palaven.

- this was taken from the Clever Noob forums, but I thought it would help here.

It is neither revealed or shown but assumed by fans.

Stop with the false info.

Tell that to Linkforlife. He's the one telling the false info. Megumi is right on this one.

[Linkforlife]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

The comics reveal TIM was indoctrinated on Shanxi during the First Contact War. Saren is involved as well. He is also one of the first Humans to ever step foot on Palaven.

- this was taken from the Clever Noob forums, but I thought it would help here.

It is neither revealed or shown but assumed by fans.

Stop with the false info.

Tell that to Linkforlife. He's the one telling the false info. Megumi is right on this one.

You realized I corrected myself a little later right?

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Using the Reapers is bad, that's the moral of that part of the story. Using Reaper tech is bad, no exceptions.

Thanix Cannons
Normandy SR-2
Mass Relays

Not Reaper tech. There's nothing wrong with reverse engineering Reaper tech, as that removes both problems with Reaper tech: indoctrination and using technology we don't understand.

Uhm the Cerby guys themselves say they don't know what happens if the hardware blocks are removed. There are original Reaper components used in the construction of the SR-2.

What? That was about unshackling EDI, of course they didn't know what would happen if they unshackle an AI.

[Leonia]

For what it's worth, we don't know for sure that reverse engineering can remove indoctrination effects from Reaper tech. If we know so little about the process and how it works, how can we expect scientists to overcome the problem? After all, technology hasn't even advanced far enough to understand the mechanisms behind relays or how to create new ones yet it's possible to prevent unknown tech from indoctrinating victims? It's probably better to stop using ALL technology even remotely derived from the Reapers, including the IFF and other components used in the SR-2.

[BleedingUranium]

Fur28 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

For what The Protheans said
How different is reaper technology like the IFF, from the Mass relays and the Citadel?

If the Reaper tech was built with slaves and stolen resources.
Is it really that different?

How different is using parts of a Reaper to advance your race than using the Mass relay network, not very different.
They both have the same origins.

Right, it's the same.

They could try to replicate some of the reaper technology, like Liara´s dad said with the relays
But if we get rid of the reapers and their tech no longer indoctrinates, i really dont see the problem of using it

Using the relays until we can build our own is fine, they couldn't indoctrinate even if they gave off an indoctrination signal.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Using the Reapers is bad, that's the moral of that part of the story. Using Reaper tech is bad, no exceptions.

Thanix Cannons
Normandy SR-2
Mass Relays

Not Reaper tech. There's nothing wrong with reverse engineering Reaper tech, as that removes both problems with Reaper tech: indoctrination and using technology we don't understand.

Uhm the Cerby guys themselves say they don't know what happens if the hardware blocks are removed. There are original Reaper components used in the construction of the SR-2.

What? That was about unshackling EDI, of course they didn't know what would happen if they unshackle an AI.

They even stressed the Reaper tech part in that discussion.

[BleedingUranium]

leonia42 wrote...

For what it's worth, we don't know for sure that reverse engineering can remove indoctrination effects from Reaper tech. If we know so little about the process and how it works, how can we expect scientists to overcome the problem? After all, technology hasn't even advanced far enough to understand the mechanisms behind relays or how to create new ones yet it's possible to prevent unknown tech from indoctrinating victims? It's probably better to stop using ALL technology even remotely derived from the Reapers, including the IFF and other components used in the SR-2.

Reverse engineering means that you understand how it works. Take something apart, figure out how it works.

[Fur28]

leonia42 wrote...

For what it's worth, we don't know for sure that reverse engineering can remove indoctrination effects from Reaper tech. If we know so little about the process and how it works, how can we expect scientists to overcome the problem? After all, technology hasn't even advanced far enough to understand the mechanisms behind relays or how to create new ones yet it's possible to prevent unknown tech from indoctrinating victims? It's probably better to stop using ALL technology even remotely derived from the Reapers, including the IFF and other components used in the SR-2.

it would be interesting seeing a ME sequel where they cant use Mass realys and such
how much would society and technlogy change

[Leonia]

But according to everyone in the MEU, we don't understand Reaper tech. Ergo, it's not as simple as "Let's RE everything!"

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

For what it's worth, we don't know for sure that reverse engineering can remove indoctrination effects from Reaper tech. If we know so little about the process and how it works, how can we expect scientists to overcome the problem? After all, technology hasn't even advanced far enough to understand the mechanisms behind relays or how to create new ones yet it's possible to prevent unknown tech from indoctrinating victims? It's probably better to stop using ALL technology even remotely derived from the Reapers, including the IFF and other components used in the SR-2.

Reverse engineering means that you understand how it works. Take something apart, figure out how it works.

Which is clearly not what happened at the construction of EDI.

[TheProtheans]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

What´s the difference between the process on being indoctrinated and being indoctrinated?
i always though indoctrinated is when your beliefs and priotities changed, can someone please explain it

Right, the point at which you are indoctrinated is the point where your beliefs, priorities, and goals change. It's the difference between dying and being dead.

There is a balance between indoctrination and usefulness.
Following that logic you would also agree Saren was in the process of being indoctrinated throughout ME1.
He believed that Organics need to work with the Reapers so that they will be saved.

[Fur28]

ok see ya, have work to do, maybe back in 2 hours

[BleedingUranium]

TheProtheans wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

What´s the difference between the process on being indoctrinated and being indoctrinated?
i always though indoctrinated is when your beliefs and priotities changed, can someone please explain it

Right, the point at which you are indoctrinated is the point where your beliefs, priorities, and goals change. It's the difference between dying and being dead.

There is a balance between indoctrination and usefulness.
Following that logic you would also agree Saren was in the process of being indoctrinated throughout ME1.
He believed that Organics need to work with the Reapers so that they will be saved.

He was indoctrinated, because he believed we needed to work with the Reapers. Another way to say someone is indoctrinated is to say that the Reapers have convinced them what the Reapers are doing is right/that they can't be stopped/that they can control them/etc.

Regardless of the specific thing they're convinced of, it all comes down to that person working to stop those who want to kill the Reapers. Saren, TIM, and Kenson (the main examples) had goals that caused them to fight anyone who wanted the Reapers destroyed.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 12 décembre 2012 - 10:52 .

[TheProtheans]

BleedingUranium wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

What´s the difference between the process on being indoctrinated and being indoctrinated?
i always though indoctrinated is when your beliefs and priotities changed, can someone please explain it

Right, the point at which you are indoctrinated is the point where your beliefs, priorities, and goals change. It's the difference between dying and being dead.

There is a balance between indoctrination and usefulness.
Following that logic you would also agree Saren was in the process of being indoctrinated throughout ME1.
He believed that Organics need to work with the Reapers so that they will be saved.

He was indoctrinated, because he believed we needed to work with the Reapers. Another way to say someone is indoctrinated is to say that the Reapers have convinced them what the Reapers are doing is right/that they can't be stopped/that they can control them/etc.

Regardless of the specific thing they're convinced of, it all comes down to that person working to stop those who want to kill the Reapers. Saren, TIM, and Kenson (the main examples) had goals that caused them to fight anyone who wanted the Reapers destroyed.

Saren didn't think it was possible to destroy the Reapers.
It's not hard to understand why he took that view on what needs to be done.
He looked at the facts and made a decision.

That's because they were working against what those people were trying to achieve, what they thought was the best for the galaxy and best for humanity.
Kenson was little more than a sleeper agent, not like TIM or Saren

[hukbum]

leonia42 wrote...

But according to everyone in the MEU, we don't understand Reaper tech. Ergo, it's not as simple as "Let's RE everything!"

That's the downside of "evolve along a path". The MEU has similar technology already (without fully understanding it ... which is ... let's better not go there ...). And this cycle had time to study reaper tech.
For RE you don't need to fully understand, but you can compare and look what the other side has done diffrent if the basic concept is the same. After that it's trail and error (see Thanix cannon).
RE ends when it comes down to material or stuff like that. You may be able to tell what something is made of, but that doesn't tell you anything about how it is produced.
But a concept is quite easy to figure out. The tricky part is to get it working with the tech/materials you have.

[dorktainian]

you have to think outside the box as it were. the reapers leave behind technology so races can develop. the races then become reliant on the technology. What if the answer is to say we're not going to use your technology? we're going to develop our way not yours. Break the cycle.    

as in the post above.  adapting technology should be fairly easy.  blueprints should be available and easy to adapt.


'Now get the hell out of our galaxy''

Modifié par dorktainian, 12 décembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[Domanese]

Huh. Fairly large battleground going on here. Absolutely insane even. I'll have to catch up on what I missed.

[Fur28]

dorktainian wrote...

you have to think outside the box as it were. the reapers leave behind technology so races can develop. the races then become reliant on the technology. What if the answer is to say we're not going to use your technology? we're going to develop our way not yours. Break the cycle.    

as in the post above.  adapting technology should be fairly easy.  blueprints should be available and easy to adapt.


'Now get the hell out of our galaxy''

I´m sure the reapers could harvest them even if a cycle doesn´t use the technology given.
Unless they dont active the relays, i dont know how they could prevent the reaper invasion

Modifié par Fur28, 12 décembre 2012 - 11:50 .

[hukbum]

Fur28 wrote...

I´m sure the reapers could harvest them even if a cycle doesn´t use the technology given.
Unless they dont active the relays, i dont know how they could prevent the reaper invasion

The thing is - the Reapers created technological stagnation for themself by doing so. They gain nothing new when reaping through the galaxy.
Using completly diffrent tech can be quite an advantage because it would force the Reaper to do something they're not used to: adapt. The cycles are not created for the harvest, they're created to ensure noone surpasses them.

[CoolioThane]

There is no way the breath scene takes place anywhere other than Earth. That is enough to prove IT imo

[dorktainian]

CoolioThane wrote...

There is no way the breath scene takes place anywhere other than Earth. That is enough to prove IT imo

[Restrider]

dorktainian wrote...

Consider it added to the list...

[dorktainian]

don't forget coates on the citadel (supposedly) hang on he's still on earth isn't he? Oh and you cannot shoot the keepers looting human corpses....which all look exactly the same?    

edit - yay top again.

Modifié par dorktainian, 12 décembre 2012 - 12:17 .

[Restrider]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

If it is established(established where) Shepard isn't indoctrinated before the ending.
That means the kid is real and a retard.
But also the Rachni thoughts on what happened to her people is worthless.

If the Reapers can put stuff into your mind to make you lose focus, you be pretty indoctrinated.
Unless you don't believe that.

Being in the process of being indoctrinated is not the same as actually being indoctrinated.

"the process of being indoctrinated" is a concept purely created by fans.

Didn't Rana and Benezia explain it as a process and not an off/on-style thing?