80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

dorktainian wrote...

ok then now for the  big question.   

When shep is staggering through the 'citadel' he goes past several structures on an as yet undiscovered part of the citadel.....  including areas of the citadel apparently 'changing' for some unknown reason.  on his way 'up the ramp' there are clearly 'human' structures on a part of the citadel that no living creature (apart from the keepers) has (as far as we know because he is 'underneath' the presidium tower in a secret chamber) ever visited.  How did it get there?  There is no way any human has been there before (unless they are corpses) so what gives then?

Bad riting lulz

[MegumiAzusa]

Criddle wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

its clearly reinforced concrete in the breathe seen, the citadel is made of an unknown nearly indestructable material

The citadel is, but the buildings aren't.

yep i'm sure all those technologically advanced races built the citadel using rebar and concrete /facepalm.

The buildings on the Citadel are made by the races, and there is nothing suggesting a different material from what they usually use. The "concrete" and rebar is even used and seen on multiple planets.

But there aren't any buildings nearby, and how is Shepard supposed to survive if the concrete flies from somewhere on the Citadel directly on him. Not even considering the explosion that would be needed.
No way Shep could survive that explosions if he was on the Citadel.

As said the texture of the concrete is used in the very same room where you make your choice.

[dorktainian]

lol she dodged the question....ftw   

oh and these are not a part of the crudible.  they are underneath the citadel.

Modifié par dorktainian, 12 décembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[hukbum]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

As said the texture of the concrete is used in the very same room where you make your choice.

Missed my post about textures?
And - it's a rendered scene, how can you be certain it's the same texture?


Please people, stop using this "but texture"-argument ...

[GethPrimeMKII]

Still debating the breathe scene location I see.

[Samtheman63]

dorktainian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

its clearly reinforced concrete in the breathe seen, the citadel is made of an unknown nearly indestructable material

The citadel is, but the buildings aren't.

yep i'm sure all those technologically advanced races built the citadel using rebar and concrete /facepalm.

exactly

rofl

[MegumiAzusa]

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

its clearly reinforced concrete in the breathe seen, the citadel is made of an unknown nearly indestructable material

The citadel is, but the buildings aren't.

yep i'm sure all those technologically advanced races built the citadel using rebar and concrete /facepalm.

The buildings on the Citadel are made by the races, and there is nothing suggesting a different material from what they usually use. The "concrete" and rebar is even used and seen on multiple planets.

ok then now for the  big question.   

When shep is staggering through the 'citadel' he goes past several structures on an as yet undiscovered part of the citadel.....  including areas of the citadel apparently 'changing' for some unknown reason.  on his way 'up the ramp' there are clearly 'human' structures on a part of the citadel that no living creature (apart from the keepers) has (as far as we know because he is 'underneath' the presidium tower in a secret chamber) ever visited.  How did it get there?  There is no way any human has been there before (unless they are corpses) so what gives then?

You answered your question yourself: the walls are shifting and changing. It rearranges itself. This means the new structure was not there, but I see no issue with tech from other races placed at the spot, which can also have been moved by the rearrangement.
I didn't dodge the question (as you obviously see now) but I'm also not posting here 24/7

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 12 décembre 2012 - 03:49 .

[MegumiAzusa]

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

As said the texture of the concrete is used in the very same room where you make your choice.

Missed my post about textures?
And - it's a rendered scene, how can you be certain it's the same texture?


Please people, stop using this "but texture"-argument ...

Your post was about the naming. Obviously the devs were fine with "concrete" textures on the Citadel, regardless of name, which also means the devs are fine with the implications.

[dorktainian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

its clearly reinforced concrete in the breathe seen, the citadel is made of an unknown nearly indestructable material

The citadel is, but the buildings aren't.

yep i'm sure all those technologically advanced races built the citadel using rebar and concrete /facepalm.

The buildings on the Citadel are made by the races, and there is nothing suggesting a different material from what they usually use. The "concrete" and rebar is even used and seen on multiple planets.

ok then now for the  big question.   

When shep is staggering through the 'citadel' he goes past several structures on an as yet undiscovered part of the citadel.....  including areas of the citadel apparently 'changing' for some unknown reason.  on his way 'up the ramp' there are clearly 'human' structures on a part of the citadel that no living creature (apart from the keepers) has (as far as we know because he is 'underneath' the presidium tower in a secret chamber) ever visited.  How did it get there?  There is no way any human has been there before (unless they are corpses) so what gives then?

You answered your question yourself: the walls are shifting and changing. It rearranges itself. This means the new structure was not there, but I see no issue with tech from other races placed at the spot, which can also have been moved by the rearrangement.
I didn't dodge the question (as you obviously see now) but I'm also not posting here 24/7

oh dear you really dodged the question.  Human artifacts should not be there.  why are they?  No human has ever been there before ..........ever..............you know like forever?

[MegumiAzusa]

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

its clearly reinforced concrete in the breathe seen, the citadel is made of an unknown nearly indestructable material

The citadel is, but the buildings aren't.

yep i'm sure all those technologically advanced races built the citadel using rebar and concrete /facepalm.

The buildings on the Citadel are made by the races, and there is nothing suggesting a different material from what they usually use. The "concrete" and rebar is even used and seen on multiple planets.

ok then now for the  big question.   

When shep is staggering through the 'citadel' he goes past several structures on an as yet undiscovered part of the citadel.....  including areas of the citadel apparently 'changing' for some unknown reason.  on his way 'up the ramp' there are clearly 'human' structures on a part of the citadel that no living creature (apart from the keepers) has (as far as we know because he is 'underneath' the presidium tower in a secret chamber) ever visited.  How did it get there?  There is no way any human has been there before (unless they are corpses) so what gives then?

You answered your question yourself: the walls are shifting and changing. It rearranges itself. This means the new structure was not there, but I see no issue with tech from other races placed at the spot, which can also have been moved by the rearrangement.
I didn't dodge the question (as you obviously see now) but I'm also not posting here 24/7

oh dear you really dodged the question.  Human artifacts should not be there.  why are they?  No human has ever been there before ..........ever..............you know like forever?

Why do you say so? There is nothing to suggest that. And even if true, as said it's rearranging itself. The parts could come from any other place. It's merely you ignoring the obvious.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:00 .

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

You answered your question yourself: the walls are shifting and changing. It rearranges itself. This means the new structure was not there, but I see no issue with tech from other races placed at the spot, which can also have been moved by the rearrangement.
I didn't dodge the question (as you obviously see now) but I'm also not posting here 24/7

Now you're just saying what the ending tells you like it makes sense or something. Next you're going to say that jumping into a beam of energy can alter everything in the galaxy at the most basic level, just because that's what's said.

If you want to defend a position other than IT, you must do it without using space magic.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:02 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

It makes no sense for the breathe scene to be on the Citadel. The explosion is far beyond what any human being can survive. Even if Shepard was somehow protected from being turned to ash, the force alone would reduce her to paste.

[BleedingUranium]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

It makes no sense for the breathe scene to be on the Citadel. The explosion is far beyond what any human being can survive. Even if Shepard was somehow protected from being turned to ash, the force alone would reduce her to paste.

Exactly, we proved long ago that the breath scene cannot possibly take place on the Citadel. So unless Megumi or the others have something new to counter this, there's no point discussing it.

[hukbum]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hukbum wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

As said the texture of the concrete is used in the very same room where you make your choice.

Missed my post about textures?
And - it's a rendered scene, how can you be certain it's the same texture?


Please people, stop using this "but texture"-argument ...

Your post was about the naming. Obviously the devs were fine with "concrete" textures on the Citadel, regardless of name, which also means the devs are fine with the implications.

No, my post was not only about naming ...
Anyway - when I look at the picture of the breath scene, I see things that remind me of the beamrun, but I see NOTHING that remind me of the citadel without some serious braintwisting.
Maybe, after I looked at it about 25 times I'll realize that there are some textures also used at the citadel, but my fist thought was "Hä? Earth? WTF is going on here?" and not "That's the rubbled citadel".
That's why I don't give a damn about the textures used in this scene. The scene speaks for itself. It's just much more possible that this scene is rendered from the rubblepile in the beamrun than it is a citadel scene.

[DoomsdayDevice]

What is this nonsense about TIM not being indoctrinated for wanting to control the Reapers?

The Protheans were brought down from within by a splinter group who thought they should control the Reapers. This group turned out to be indoctrinated.

Cerberus is entirely analogous to that.

It's all about pattern recognition, people.

As for making sense of IT, it doesn't make sense as long as you go by the assumption that the ending was an illusion but the Reapers were still defeated somehow.

The only way IT makes sense is if this simply isn't the end of the story. Shepard beat indoctrination or succumbed to it. That's where this game ends. The Reapers still need to be defeated.

If you're not willing to accept that this is going to be the case simply because EC and because you think it's unlikely Bioware will pull this stunt after so much time has passed, consider this:

If you were going to blow people's minds with a reveal, wouldn't it make perfect sense to reveal it as the very last thing, and not somewhere in the beginning or middle of the DLC cycle? Wouldn't it make perfect sense to deny everything and say "No more Shepard."?

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:39 .

[MaximizedAction]

So one can arguing in favor of a 'literal' interpretation of the ending.
Duh, much?

[dorktainian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

its clearly reinforced concrete in the breathe seen, the citadel is made of an unknown nearly indestructable material

The citadel is, but the buildings aren't.

yep i'm sure all those technologically advanced races built the citadel using rebar and concrete /facepalm.

The buildings on the Citadel are made by the races, and there is nothing suggesting a different material from what they usually use. The "concrete" and rebar is even used and seen on multiple planets.

ok then now for the  big question.   

When shep is staggering through the 'citadel' he goes past several structures on an as yet undiscovered part of the citadel.....  including areas of the citadel apparently 'changing' for some unknown reason.  on his way 'up the ramp' there are clearly 'human' structures on a part of the citadel that no living creature (apart from the keepers) has (as far as we know because he is 'underneath' the presidium tower in a secret chamber) ever visited.  How did it get there?  There is no way any human has been there before (unless they are corpses) so what gives then?

You answered your question yourself: the walls are shifting and changing. It rearranges itself. This means the new structure was not there, but I see no issue with tech from other races placed at the spot, which can also have been moved by the rearrangement.
I didn't dodge the question (as you obviously see now) but I'm also not posting here 24/7

oh dear you really dodged the question.  Human artifacts should not be there.  why are they?  No human has ever been there before ..........ever..............you know like forever?

Why do you say so? There is nothing to suggest that. And even if true, as said it's rearranging itself. The parts could come from any other place.

honestly it's a serious question.  No human has been there before (by star brats admission) so therefore - as a matter of scientific fact - there should not be any human structures in the secret chamber area underneath the citadel.  This is a fact.  The only reason human structures are visible is if it is not what it appears.  Also (you might wanna look into this) when shep 'wakes up' the lighting (or lack of) is the same as when he charged the beam in london (it's dark.... fire glow can be seen through the rubble)  Smoke (that would be a major no-no on the citadel because it would signify fire - and to have fire you must have plenty of oxygen - and to have enough oxygen you need to be out in the open (see where i'm going here?) Fire would use up any oxygen on the citadel quickly as it is a 'limited resource' in space.  'Plus' if shep had really been in that area when it went 'boom' he would have been spaced, without an oxygen supply and his lungs would have exploded due to the change in pressure and the vacumm..   


anyways logging off now for a few hours.  enjoy the debate.

Modifié par dorktainian, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:08 .

[ElSuperGecko]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
As for making sense of IT, it doesn't make sense as long as you go by the assumption that the ending was an illusion but the Reapers were still defeated somehow.

The only way IT makes sense is if this simply isn't the end of the story. Shepard beat indoctrination or succumbed to it. That's where this game ends. The Reapers still need to be defeated.

Disagree with this statement, Doomsday.  But of course, that's the beauty of an ending that's left open to interpretation! 

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

What is this nonsense about TIM not being indoctrinated for wanting to control the Reapers?

The Protheans were brought down from within by a splinter group who thought they should control the Reapers. This group turned out to be indoctrinated.

Cerberus is entirely analogous to that.

It's all about pattern recognition, people.

The rest of the post was important too, but this is one of the biggest problems people seem to have.

Like saying there was no foreshadowing of Synethsis, and the denial of all the many examples of it throughout the series. Control is a bad idea because every single example of it in the series failed, and because a significant number of those who tried were indoctrinated.


I'll be back later

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[RavenEyry]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

What is this nonsense about TIM not being indoctrinated for wanting to control the Reapers?

And Mr. Sparkle blatantly says the reapers control TIM so any literalist argument cannot include him not being indoctrinated.

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

You answered your question yourself: the walls are shifting and changing. It rearranges itself. This means the new structure was not there, but I see no issue with tech from other races placed at the spot, which can also have been moved by the rearrangement.
I didn't dodge the question (as you obviously see now) but I'm also not posting here 24/7

Now you're just saying what the ending tells you like it makes sense or something. Next you're going to say that jumping into a beam of energy can alter everything in the galaxy at the most basic level, just because that's what's said.

If you want to defend a position other than IT, you must do it without using space magic.

What? Where is something getting rearranged by a program space magic? It's even the same principle the weapons use when unfolding, which seems to work without space magic.

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

What is this nonsense about TIM not being indoctrinated for wanting to control the Reapers?

The Protheans were brought down from within by a splinter group who thought they should control the Reapers. This group turned out to be indoctrinated.

Cerberus is entirely analogous to that.

It's all about pattern recognition, people.

As for making sense of IT, it doesn't make sense as long as you go by the assumption that the ending was an illusion but the Reapers were still defeated somehow.

The only way IT makes sense is if this simply isn't the end of the story. Shepard beat indoctrination or succumbed to it. That's where this game ends. The Reapers still need to be defeated.

If you're not willing to accept that this is going to be the case simply because EC and because you think it's unlikely Bioware will pull this stunt after so much time has passed, consider this:

If you were going to blow people's minds with a reveal, wouldn't it make perfect sense to reveal it as the very last thing, and not somewhere in the beginning or middle of the DLC cycle?

It is BioWare and everything in the game that says the Reaper thread has ended because of Shepard.

[MegumiAzusa]

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

its clearly reinforced concrete in the breathe seen, the citadel is made of an unknown nearly indestructable material

The citadel is, but the buildings aren't.

yep i'm sure all those technologically advanced races built the citadel using rebar and concrete /facepalm.

The buildings on the Citadel are made by the races, and there is nothing suggesting a different material from what they usually use. The "concrete" and rebar is even used and seen on multiple planets.

ok then now for the  big question.   

When shep is staggering through the 'citadel' he goes past several structures on an as yet undiscovered part of the citadel.....  including areas of the citadel apparently 'changing' for some unknown reason.  on his way 'up the ramp' there are clearly 'human' structures on a part of the citadel that no living creature (apart from the keepers) has (as far as we know because he is 'underneath' the presidium tower in a secret chamber) ever visited.  How did it get there?  There is no way any human has been there before (unless they are corpses) so what gives then?

You answered your question yourself: the walls are shifting and changing. It rearranges itself. This means the new structure was not there, but I see no issue with tech from other races placed at the spot, which can also have been moved by the rearrangement.
I didn't dodge the question (as you obviously see now) but I'm also not posting here 24/7

oh dear you really dodged the question.  Human artifacts should not be there.  why are they?  No human has ever been there before ..........ever..............you know like forever?

Why do you say so? There is nothing to suggest that. And even if true, as said it's rearranging itself. The parts could come from any other place.

honestly it's a serious question.  No human has been there before (by star brats admission) so therefore - as a matter of scientific fact - there should not be any human structures in the secret chamber area underneath the citadel.  This is a fact.  The only reason human structures are visible is if it is not what it appears.  Also (you might wanna look into this) when shep 'wakes up' the lighting (or lack of) is the same as when he charged the beam in london (it's dark.... fire glow can be seen through the rubble)  Smoke (that would be a major no-no on the citadel because it would signify fire - and to have fire you must have plenty of oxygen - and to have enough oxygen you need to be out in the open (see where i'm going here?) Fire would use up any oxygen on the citadel quickly as it is a 'limited resource' in space.  'Plus' if shep had really been in that area when it went 'boom' he would have been spaced, without an oxygen supply and his lungs would have exploded due to the change in pressure and the vacumm..   


anyways logging off now for a few hours.  enjoy the debate.

"The Guardian says so" you know it hasn't have to mean Shepard standing on that exact spot on the Citadel but the organics about to be victorious against the Reapers?
Also to the fire part: there are lots of them while the Citadel Coup mission and when Saren attacks. Doesn't seem like it ran out at that point, does it?

[DoomsdayDevice]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
As for making sense of IT, it doesn't make sense as long as you go by the assumption that the ending was an illusion but the Reapers were still defeated somehow.

The only way IT makes sense is if this simply isn't the end of the story. Shepard beat indoctrination or succumbed to it. That's where this game ends. The Reapers still need to be defeated.

Disagree with this statement, Doomsday.  But of course, that's the beauty of an ending that's left open to interpretation! 

You know, for the longest time I believed Bioware would leave it open to interpretation forever, but having spent so much time analyzing the hints in the dialogue has convinced me otherwise. (Click my sig if you're interested)

Explain to me how the Reapers can be defeated in IT...

The only possibility is IT-Con (Deception Theory) which IMO does not make any sense, because that would mean Shep survives the explosion on the Citadel.

Sure, you could believe your victory is implied, I suppose. It's not very satisfying for most.

I still love how the most often heard complaint about IT (that the implications of those 'assumptions' are that the story ends with Shepard in the rubble) can be heard in the game:

Dominic Osaba: But what I need is proof! I can't take your word for this. Those assumptions merely leave my son stranded in enemy territory. Bilal may still be alive!

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:29 .

[MegumiAzusa]

RavenEyry wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

What is this nonsense about TIM not being indoctrinated for wanting to control the Reapers?

And Mr. Sparkle blatantly says the reapers control TIM so any literalist argument cannot include him not being indoctrinated.

Read the posts again. There was no denial about that. The question was when did it start.