80611 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

Ithurael wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." -Optimus Prime

"Is the future of our race not worth a single human life?" - Megatron

"I nominate myself as new leader"- Starscream

"It is only logical." - Shockwave

"Even in death, there is no command but MINE!" - Megatron

"Why universe hate Waspinator?" - Waspinator

[TheProtheans]

masster blaster wrote...

Control is a no no. TIM Indoctrinated, Kai Leng Indoctrinated, Cerberus troops Indoctrinated, the Geth being Controled by Reaper signals Indoctrinated, and Reaper husk/zombi armys Indoctrinated.

What Brat says is law. He controls the Reapers, He tells us that he controled TIM. He made us shot Anderson. He sent Harbinger to kill our Shepard/ everyone charging at the beam. Reapers Indoctrinated world Leaders. The ******* kid told Cerberus to attack the Citadle/ killing Thane in the process.

I can go on, but you get that point.

I thought it was a hallucination.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

RavenEyry wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." -Optimus Prime

"Is the future of our race not worth a single human life?" - Megatron

"I nominate myself as new leader"- Starscream

"It is only logical." - Shockwave

"Even in death, there is no command but MINE!" - Megatron

"Why universe hate Waspinator?" - Waspinator

"Me Grimlock no bozo! Me king!" - Grimlock

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:50 .

[BansheeOwnage]

TheProtheans wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Control is a no no. TIM Indoctrinated, Kai Leng Indoctrinated, Cerberus troops Indoctrinated, the Geth being Controled by Reaper signals Indoctrinated, and Reaper husk/zombi armys Indoctrinated.

What Brat says is law. He controls the Reapers, He tells us that he controled TIM. He made us shot Anderson. He sent Harbinger to kill our Shepard/ everyone charging at the beam. Reapers Indoctrinated world Leaders. The ******* kid told Cerberus to attack the Citadle/ killing Thane in the process.

I can go on, but you get that point.

I thought it was a hallucination.

You do realize to discuss the IT we must also discuss the literal viewpoint, right?

@Revan That too. "The Protheans" does not seem to understand there can be multiple reasons for doing something.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheProtheans wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Control is a no no. TIM Indoctrinated, Kai Leng Indoctrinated, Cerberus troops Indoctrinated, the Geth being Controled by Reaper signals Indoctrinated, and Reaper husk/zombi armys Indoctrinated.

What Brat says is law. He controls the Reapers, He tells us that he controled TIM. He made us shot Anderson. He sent Harbinger to kill our Shepard/ everyone charging at the beam. Reapers Indoctrinated world Leaders. The ******* kid told Cerberus to attack the Citadle/ killing Thane in the process.

I can go on, but you get that point.

I thought it was a hallucination.

He's saying there are plenty of real world examples of why shepard shouldn't fall for it.

[401 Kill]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Control is a terrible idea for many reasons.
1. It's not Shepard who controls the Reapers, it's an AI based off his personality.
2.That resulting AI can become corrupted
3. Someone can in turn take control and replace the Shepard AI.
4. There is no way to know I ahead of time if Shepard is mentally strong enough to withstand direct contact with a Reaper's mind.
5. Who's to say that Shepard AI should be final arbiter of all things?
6. The Reapers are still there

Oooo, I love talk about control. I agree with all of the statements above. I always look to post items from my notes here, so I'm just going to say only one reason why control is not possible (there are many more!)
Repost!

 Shepard: "So, The Illusive Man was right after all."

Child: "Yes, but he could have never taken control, because we already controlled him."

Shepard cannot control the Reapers because just before that TIM was controlling Shepard and made Shepard shoot Anderson. If TIM controlled Shepard, and the Reapers controlled TIM than effectively, the Reapers controlled Shepard. (Or they are at least trying to but Shepard is resisting) Now, knowing this can there be any logical reason as to how Shepard can now control the Reapers. And it sure as hell better not be "Because the Catalyst aka the creator and leader of the Reapers said so". It is not possible, you cannot control the Reapers.

Modifié par 401 Kill, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[BansheeOwnage]

401 Kill wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Control is a terrible idea for many reasons.
1. It's not Shepard who controls the Reapers, it's an AI based off his personality.
2.That resulting AI can become corrupted
3. Someone can in turn take control and replace the Shepard AI.
4. There is no way to know I ahead of time if Shepard is mentally strong enough to withstand direct contact with a Reaper's mind.
5. Who's to say that Shepard AI should be final arbiter of all things?
6. The Reapers are still there

Oooo, I love talk about control. I agree with all of the statements above. I always look to post items from my notes here, so I'm just going to say only one reason why control is not possible (there are many more!)
Repost!

 Shepard: "So, The Illusive Man was right after all."

Child: "Yes, but he could have never taken control, because we already controlled him."

Shepard cannot control the Reapers because just before that TIM was controlling Shepard and made Shepard shoot Anderson. If TIM controlled Shepard, and the Reapers controlled TIM than effectively, the Reapers controlled Shepard. (Or they are at least trying to but Shepard is resisting) Now, knowing this can there be any logical reason as to how Shepard can now control the Reapers. And it sure as hell better not be "Because the Catalyst aka the creator and leader of the Reapers said so". It is not possible, you cannot control the Reapers.

Exactly. [/Anderson]  Love your signature 401, but it implies the ITers are indoctrinated!

[401 Kill]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Exactly. [/Anderson]  Love your signature 401, but it implies the ITers are indoctrinated!

Maybe. Maybe:o.

But remember! 
"The Illusive Man was right after all.";)

And thanks! I replayed the endings and when TIM said his earth line, it popped into my head. 

[Ageless Face]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Control is a terrible idea for many reasons.
1. It's not Shepard who controls the Reapers, it's an AI based off his personality.
2.That resulting AI can become corrupted
3. Someone can in turn take control and replace the Shepard AI.
4. There is no way to know I ahead of time if Shepard is mentally strong enough to withstand direct contact with a Reaper's mind.
5. Who's to say that Shepard AI should be final arbiter of all things?
6. The Reapers are still there

Sorry, sorry. I just couldn't resist.

1. That's not necessarily bad. An AI can be much more trustworthy than a human, if programmed based on the galaxy's needs (protecting the galaxy and help it is nice, no?)
2. True, but there is danger in anything. Destroy can lead to people starting to create their own Reapers from peices left or find a way to control the shutted down Reapers.
3. Also true, but the odds it will happen are very small. We now know of only one way to take control of the Reapers, and for that to happen people need the Crucible, and for AIShep to let the person who wants to take control an entrance, like the catalyst did with the elevator.
4. But as you said yourself, that is not Shepard, but an AI, which we can safely assume that has mental understanding of Reaper mind, otherwise I doubt it would have been able to take control.
5. No one did, and that is why (I suppose) no one would let AIShep take control of anything other than the Reapers.
6. Maybe, but AIShep is going to paint them in different colors. They'll be so pretty

Modifié par HagarIshay, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
You do realize to discuss the IT we must also discuss the literal viewpoint, right?

@Revan That too. "The Protheans" does not seem to understand there can be multiple reasons for doing something.

That's one reason I'm here.

Also, since we are friends, you can call me by my name Selim if you like.
It'll be easier on me too since therwe is someone called Raven on this thread a lot too so won't be confusing

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:06 .

[umadcommander]

401 Kill wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Exactly. [/Anderson]  Love your signature 401, but it implies the ITers are indoctrinated!

Maybe. Maybe:o.

But remember! 
"The Illusive Man was right after all.";)

And thanks! I replayed the endings and when TIM said his earth line, it popped into my head. 

no...we just....see things differently

[MaximizedAction]

Just gonna leave this...right heeere

twitter.com/GambleMike/status/278941502372188162
"Don't believe everything you read, by the way :)"

This is probably him referring to an interview posted on the Gamersyndrome website (they were doing an interview with some ellusive Mr. "Bioware" and there this person mentioned a possible release date for the next ME game).
But still, I like how he worded that statement very generally.

Sure could've used it back in the days when the literalists' main defense was "Bioware said/wrote so".

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:07 .

[dorktainian]

hooray i'm baaaaaaaaaaack.. did i miss anything worth while?

[RavenEyry]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

It'll be easier on me too since therwe is someone called Raven on this thread a lot too so won't be confusing

Booya! There's only enough space for one r...ven in this thread!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

dorktainian wrote...

hooray i'm baaaaaaaaaaack.. did i miss anything worth while?

i don't think so. I was hoping to have my project up by now but it is a lot longer than I originally thought.

[RavenEyry]

dorktainian wrote...

hooray i'm baaaaaaaaaaack.. did i miss anything worth while?

Paxxton thinks brainwashing and slavery is a good thing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

RavenEyry wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

It'll be easier on me too since therwe is someone called Raven on this thread a lot too so won't be confusing

Booya! There's only enough space for one r...ven in this thread!

You've been here longer, so it is your right. I'll just go by my name which happens to be the exact same as my favorite anime character of all time. Darn.

[Bill Casey]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Control is a terrible idea for many reasons.
1. It's not Shepard who controls the Reapers, it's an AI based off his personality.
2.That resulting AI can become corrupted
3. Someone can in turn take control and replace the Shepard AI.
4. There is no way to know I ahead of time if Shepard is mentally strong enough to withstand direct contact with a Reaper's mind.
5. Who's to say that Shepard AI should be final arbiter of all things?
6. The Reapers are still there

Control becomes hilarious if you think Shepard has PTSD...
Or that the Catalyst is shackled...

[BansheeOwnage]

HagarIshay wrote...
6. Maybe, but AIShep is going to paint them in different colors. They'll be so pretty

Hey Hagar! It's been a while. Unfortunately I have to go right about now, but good to see you again!

[spotlessvoid]

That's a lot of risk Hagar.

4.I'm saying that before choosing Shepard does not understand enough to know his mind can handle it.
5. That's a massive armada, still capable of indoctrination, still controlled by a singular entity.
6. That is exponentially more dangerous than someone rebuilding a few Reapers. We don't know the condition, and most importantly if any cognitive function (which is the true danger) remains in destroyed Reapers. With their barriers down, the Reapers can be pulverized by conventional weaponry to ensure their total elimination.

[Humakt83]

Reaper indoctrination devices on the wall of Lesuss' Monastery.

[dorktainian]

right set you lot straight..

control. NO!!! slavery is a bad idea!!
Synthesis. NO!! Huskification is not a good idea!!

(btw both these endings = reaper WIN!!!)

Destroy - The better of the three. Kill the reapers. you know they deserve it. EDIs a traitor as well. kill it with fire.

Refuse - the great unknown - my second fave. Dismiss all the choices THE REAPERS give you and make your own decisions. Go down fighting. Better dead than a slave.



Right thats out of the way....there are strange things happening on the citadel. picture evidence coming right up.

[Bill Casey]

Humakt83 wrote...

Reaper indoctrination devices on the wall of Lesuss' Monastery.

You sure you aren't looking at barrier engines?
The devices that give nearby reaper troops barriers?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:16 .

[TheProtheans]

spotlessvoid wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...
frequency of exposure, and proximity to indoctrination source are contributing factors to the effectiveness of indoctrination.

Amount of exposure is irrelevant after a certain stage(specificially the amount needed to begin the process)
Once the seeds are planted they're planted and indoctrination begins.

This depends on many factors. A subject who is strong of will and morally upright is not easily corrupted. The length and frequency of exposure definitely effect it. This is why the Cerberus scientists, Benezia, etc weren't immediately indoctrinated. Continuous prolonged exposure is not the same as repeated brief exposure.
When a valuable subject is targeted, manipulation of their emotions, instinct, and ambitions can be accomplished with less exposure if the subject is easier to manipulate. The more the Reapers force their way in to a subject psyche, the higher the risk of ending up with a babbling idiot. High value targets are not pushed to the point of mental breakdown. The Reapers are often insidious and cunning in their use of indoctrination

Many factors that you just made up in respect to Mass effect.
The Cerberus scientists had little to no use and so the Reapers made their indoctrination process more rapid so that they would become mindless husks on purpose.
Benezia had her uses and her indoctrination process was slower than most ones we know but more rapid than Shepard and Saren.
Without her being able to save a piece of her mind with her strong ability she would have been a 100% reaper agent when we met her.
Instead she was able to keep part of herself there long enough to say something and break from her changed self.
Exposure is exposure, how badly it affects you is up to the Reapers and how useful they rate you.
Take Saren and Benezia for example.
They're on Sovereign for ages, why would Saren's process be less advanced than Benezia's if he was with Sovereign longer and Benezia joined later to try and divert his path.

There is no risk of them making you a babbling idiot if they don't want, you becoming a babbling idiot depends on your usefulness.
More useful beings are not huskified or indoctrinated more to be a Reaper drone because they work better when the Reapers allow them to keep parts of themselves. 

[BleedingUranium]

Bill Casey wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Reaper indoctrination devices on the wall of Lesuss' Monastery.

You sure you aren't looking at barrier engines?
The devices that give nearby reaper troops barriers?

Half the Reaper Indoc devices in MP use the Barrier Engine model.