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[DoomsdayDevice]

Quoting myself for a moment, found something cool:

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I still love how the most often heard complaint about IT (that the implications of those 'assumptions' are that the story ends with Shepard in the rubble) can be heard in the game:

Dominic Osaba: But what I need is proof! I can't take your word for this. Those assumptions merely leave my son stranded in enemy territory. Bilal may still be alive!

So I looked up the meaning of Bilal and it is Arabic for 'Chosen one'.

http://www.baby-name...ning/bilal.html



BBL, catching up with thread.

[Darth_Acheron47]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Renegade interrupts often let you kill or damage enemies. Same principle.

That's true. Hadn't thought of that yet.

[MegumiAzusa]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

What's interesting to me about the kill vs. save Wrex thing is that you can actually get the support of both the krogan AND the salarians. All you have to do is kill Wrex, delete Maelon's genophage data, sabotage the genophage cure, and then lie about it for the rest of the game.

This is how my insanity run with my "make the wrong choices on purpose" Shepard ended up with the highest EMS score of all my plays so far.

So you actually get rewarded for being evil and heartless. Granted it's just with the more or less meaningless EMS scores, but the fact that now that's a "good thing to do" represents a real interesting ideological turn in this game from the previous two.

Yeah, turns out that being a ruthless realist tends to get you more help than a idealist. It's always been that way. The idealist may win the hearts of the people, but in the end, it's always the realist who stands there with the best resources.

Yeah, but if you kill the Council in the first game, (which seems like the practical thing to do, because you don't know if the Destiny Ascension can even be saved) that lowers your score rather than giving you additional human assets you can make use of later.

Again, I know it's just the EMS totals and they're pretty much useless anyway, I just think it's interesting because it makes you think both short term and long term and decide whether it's worth it for the "quick fix" or not. In some cases it might be, but in some it probably makes the situation on the whole a lot worse. I don't recall that happening in the first two games, so when I ended up with krogan and salarian support because Wreav never figured out that I didn't actually cure the genophage, I was surprised. It made me start looking at some of the other decisions in the game and wondering about how things would really end up.

It does not lower your score, as with the choice to rewrite or blow up the heretics the difference is 0.

[estebanus]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

What's interesting to me about the kill vs. save Wrex thing is that you can actually get the support of both the krogan AND the salarians. All you have to do is kill Wrex, delete Maelon's genophage data, sabotage the genophage cure, and then lie about it for the rest of the game.

This is how my insanity run with my "make the wrong choices on purpose" Shepard ended up with the highest EMS score of all my plays so far.

So you actually get rewarded for being evil and heartless. Granted it's just with the more or less meaningless EMS scores, but the fact that now that's a "good thing to do" represents a real interesting ideological turn in this game from the previous two.

Yeah, turns out that being a ruthless realist tends to get you more help than a idealist. It's always been that way. The idealist may win the hearts of the people, but in the end, it's always the realist who stands there with the best resources.

Yeah, but if you kill the Council in the first game, (which seems like the practical thing to do, because you don't know if the Destiny Ascension can even be saved) that lowers your score rather than giving you additional human assets you can make use of later.

Again, I know it's just the EMS totals and they're pretty much useless anyway, I just think it's interesting because it makes you think both short term and long term and decide whether it's worth it for the "quick fix" or not. In some cases it might be, but in some it probably makes the situation on the whole a lot worse. I don't recall that happening in the first two games, so when I ended up with krogan and salarian support because Wreav never figured out that I didn't actually cure the genophage, I was surprised. It made me start looking at some of the other decisions in the game and wondering about how things would really end up.

Fooling Wreav will not make the future of the galaxy any worse. He may be pissed, but he doesn't have the manpower nor the skills to lead a succesful war against the council races, even if they're weakened. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, seeing as this place( BSN, not this thread) just deleted two hours worth of my work, I'm calling it a day.

[401 Kill]

estebanus wrote..

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...
Most of the time I also wanted to see the geth dead, but I decided in the end that they were valuable resources, which is whyI let them live. 
As such, I couldn't really give a damn if Shepard only had the option to either kill the quarians or the geth. I'd still choose quarians each time.

Why do you want the geth dead? And why side with the quarians? I've never understood that.

Because I don't give a flying sh*t about them. If they're meant to be an innocent, mistreated "race" is irrelevant, they still committed genocide on their masters (even if the quarians tried killing them first, it doesn't matter. You don't see jews and eastern europeans hunting and killing all germans) and drove them into exile where they had to live for centuries with breathing masks on, and were continuously attacked by the geth whenever skirting the perseus veil. 
Also, they're machines, and they've already been hacked by the reapers. Twice. Also, I'd never be able to choose a robot to over an organic being. Wiping out a race that can't be reconstructed is quite differen than wikping out one which easily can be replaced.

Finally, someone who understands!    

[Restrider]

401 Kill wrote...

Domanese wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Promoting the IT Flavour poll. 40 votes only, it's a lot less than in the avg IT's Top Ten polls.

K is for me.

Im afraid that I cannot vote because in the spot of the picture is a "?".

Edit: Can somebody tell me what the full on IT letter is?

Try this link.
And 100% everything including Cronos Station, is H. afaik.

Modifié par Restrider, 12 décembre 2012 - 11:34 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

estebanus wrote..
Because I don't give a flying sh*t about them. If they're meant to be an innocent, mistreated "race" is irrelevant, they still committed genocide on their masters (even if the quarians tried killing them first, it doesn't matter. You don't see jews and eastern europeans hunting and killing all germans) and drove them into exile where they had to live for centuries with breathing masks on, and were continuously attacked by the geth whenever skirting the perseus veil. 
Also, they're machines, and they've already been hacked by the reapers. Twice. Also, I'd never be able to choose a robot to over an organic being. Wiping out a race that can't be reconstructed is quite differen than wikping out one which easily can be replaced.

First off, just wow.
And second, Quarians can be replaced just as easily as Geth can. The Salarians have cloning technology.

[MegumiAzusa]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

estebanus wrote..
Because I don't give a flying sh*t about them. If they're meant to be an innocent, mistreated "race" is irrelevant, they still committed genocide on their masters (even if the quarians tried killing them first, it doesn't matter. You don't see jews and eastern europeans hunting and killing all germans) and drove them into exile where they had to live for centuries with breathing masks on, and were continuously attacked by the geth whenever skirting the perseus veil. 
Also, they're machines, and they've already been hacked by the reapers. Twice. Also, I'd never be able to choose a robot to over an organic being. Wiping out a race that can't be reconstructed is quite differen than wikping out one which easily can be replaced.

First off, just wow.
And second, Quarians can be replaced just as easily as Geth can. The Salarians have cloning technology.

Never understood why they didn't just clone a few Protheans etc

[Darth_Acheron47]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

It does not lower your score, as with the choice to rewrite or blow up the heretics the difference is 0.

Oh. Okay. That's interesting. I must've done some math wrong somewhere. (Not surprising - math is not my strong suit.)

I'll have to take another look at it then. In the meantime, back to lurking.

[401 Kill]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

estebanus wrote..
Because I don't give a flying sh*t about them. If they're meant to be an innocent, mistreated "race" is irrelevant, they still committed genocide on their masters (even if the quarians tried killing them first, it doesn't matter. You don't see jews and eastern europeans hunting and killing all germans) and drove them into exile where they had to live for centuries with breathing masks on, and were continuously attacked by the geth whenever skirting the perseus veil. 
Also, they're machines, and they've already been hacked by the reapers. Twice. Also, I'd never be able to choose a robot to over an organic being. Wiping out a race that can't be reconstructed is quite differen than wikping out one which easily can be replaced.

First off, just wow.
And second, Quarians can be replaced just as easily as Geth can. The Salarians have cloning technology.

Why in the world would you destroy an organic race just to clone them, (assuming they can even clone Quarians) when they can eliminate a synthetic "race" that has directly allied with the Reapers twice? They have the knowledge to build Geth anyway.

But I really don't want to get into this.

[byne]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

It does not lower your score, as with the choice to rewrite or blow up the heretics the difference is 0.

Oh. Okay. That's interesting. I must've done some math wrong somewhere. (Not surprising - math is not my strong suit.)

I'll have to take another look at it then. In the meantime, back to lurking.

Last I checked, I was pretty certain there was indeed some difference in your EMS if you killed the council vs if you kept them alive.

[MegumiAzusa]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

It does not lower your score, as with the choice to rewrite or blow up the heretics the difference is 0.

Oh. Okay. That's interesting. I must've done some math wrong somewhere. (Not surprising - math is not my strong suit.)

I'll have to take another look at it then. In the meantime, back to lurking.

Dunno if it's exactly 0 in the case of the council, but the difference is negligible.

[umadcommander]

all this talk of quarians vs geth, the catalyst would be proud

[byne]

401 Kill wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

estebanus wrote..
Because I don't give a flying sh*t about them. If they're meant to be an innocent, mistreated "race" is irrelevant, they still committed genocide on their masters (even if the quarians tried killing them first, it doesn't matter. You don't see jews and eastern europeans hunting and killing all germans) and drove them into exile where they had to live for centuries with breathing masks on, and were continuously attacked by the geth whenever skirting the perseus veil. 
Also, they're machines, and they've already been hacked by the reapers. Twice. Also, I'd never be able to choose a robot to over an organic being. Wiping out a race that can't be reconstructed is quite differen than wikping out one which easily can be replaced.

First off, just wow.
And second, Quarians can be replaced just as easily as Geth can. The Salarians have cloning technology.

Why in the world would you destroy an organic race just to clone them, (assuming they can even clone Quarians) when they can eliminate a synthetic "race" that has directly allied with the Reapers twice? They have the knowledge to build Geth anyway.

But I really don't want to get into this.

>Why bother destroying the quarians just to bring them back
>Why not destroy the geth and bring them back

See, you're not going to bring back the race you destroy either way. Stop pretending like the fact that you can build more geth means you're actually going to do so. If you're going to kill them, own your decision, dont hide behind the fact that you might bring them back maybe someday possibly.

[Restrider]

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Most of the time I also wanted to see the geth dead, but I decided in the end that they were valuable resources, which is whyI let them live. 

As such, I couldn't really give a damn if Shepard only had the option to either kill the quarians or the geth. I'd still choose quarians each time.

Why do you want the geth dead? And why side with the quarians? I've never understood that.

Because I don't give a flying sh*t about them. If they're meant to be an innocent, mistreated "race" is irrelevant, they still committed genocide on their masters (even if the quarians tried killing them first, it doesn't matter. You don't see jews and eastern europeans hunting and killing all germans) and drove them into exile where they had to live for centuries with breathing masks on, and were continuously attacked by the geth whenever skirting the perseus veil. 

Also, they're machines, and they've already been hacked by the reapers. Twice. Also, I'd never be able to choose a robot to over an organic being. Wiping out a race that can't be reconstructed is quite differen than wikping out one which easily can be replaced.

I dont think I've ever disagreed with something you've said more than I disagree with this post. I'd argue with you but I already have a headache (as usual <_<) and would rather not make it worse.

L2 implants again?
Seriously though, if it is a constant thing, you should really go to a physician.

[Darth_Acheron47]

byne wrote...

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

It does not lower your score, as with the choice to rewrite or blow up the heretics the difference is 0.

Oh. Okay. That's interesting. I must've done some math wrong somewhere. (Not surprising - math is not my strong suit.)

I'll have to take another look at it then. In the meantime, back to lurking.

Last I checked, I was pretty certain there was indeed some difference in your EMS if you killed the council vs if you kept them alive.

That was what I thought too. It wasn't much (like 30 points) but I thought there was more if you saved them vs. if you let them die. Looking at it now, though, I can't for the life of me figure out how I came to that conclusion.

[401 Kill]

Restrider wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

Domanese wrote...

Restrider wrote...
Promoting the IT Flavour poll. 40 votes only, it's a lot less than in the avg IT's Top Ten polls.

K is for me.

Im afraid that I cannot vote because in the spot of the picture is a "?".
Edit: Can somebody tell me what the full on IT letter is?

Try this link.
And 100% everything including Cronos Station, is H. afaik.

Thanks! I voted for J.

[byne]

Restrider wrote...

L2 implants again?
Seriously though, if it is a constant thing, you should really go to a physician.

I actually did make an appointment with a doctor recently since the headaches are getting more frequent and more annoying.

[Restrider]

Anyways, I'm out.

[401 Kill]

byne wrote...


>Why bother destroying the quarians just to bring them back
>Why not destroy the geth and bring them back

See, you're not going to bring back the race you destroy either way. Stop pretending like the fact that you can build more geth means you're actually going to do so. If you're going to kill them, own your decision, dont hide behind the fact that you might bring them back maybe someday possibly.

Let me state this so there is no misunderstanding. I would not bring the Geth back after destroying them. I simply stated that they have the knowledge to build Geth. Actually building them would make destroying them moot and just repeat the same mistake again.

If you destroy the Quarians there would be no reason to bring them back either.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

byne wrote...

Last I checked, I was pretty certain there was indeed some difference in your EMS if you killed the council vs if you kept them alive.

I thought it was negligible difference, a matter of 10-50 points something like that. Since if you don't save them the Alliance fleets don't lose as many numbers and are full strength by ME3.

[byne]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

Last I checked, I was pretty certain there was indeed some difference in your EMS if you killed the council vs if you kept them alive.

I thought it was negligible difference, a matter of 10-50 points something like that. Since if you don't save them the Alliance fleets don't lose as many numbers and are full strength by ME3.

Right, I didnt say it was enough to really matter, just that there was some difference.

[Restrider]

I kind of miss the atmospheric difference between letting the Council live or die that was present in ME2.
Alien shop-owners being rude to you, random Asari hating you, Avina informing you that you should not travel alone on some parts of the Citadel as a human...
Nothing of that was implemented in ME3, at least I haven't noticed it yet.
And now I am out for real.

[estebanus]

Restrider wrote...

I kind of miss the atmospheric difference between letting the Council live or die that was present in ME2.
Alien shop-owners being rude to you, random Asari hating you, Avina informing you that you should not travel alone on some parts of the Citadel as a human...
Nothing of that was implemented in ME3, at least I haven't noticed it yet.
And now I am out for real.

It's like the entire choice was made defunct. Not only that, but in my renegade playthrough, I was pretty sure that the new council was supposed to be an all-human one, that's what Udina said, and that was also implied in ME2. Why is the council now made out of the original council, just that they have different skins? They even act the same way!