80611 réponses à ce sujet

[jojon2se]

I could easily imagine the cost of a belated true finale for ME3, being (all along) calculated as part of what we paid for the game to begin with, which, if my guesstimates (based on half-recalled timeframes) hold any water, would bring both total turnaround- and play time, for the complete title (Base+finale, not intermediate DLC), up to those of previous installments. Should be perfectly economically feasable, I believe, provided I'm not off on the times.

I.e: Free for all - everybody get The Beginning, The Middle and (at long last) The End. ...and they work fine as a standalone work, but if you have all other DLC, you'll have better context -- 'might even make some, who chose not to purchase it before, reconsider and get it after all, maybe made available as a discount pack.
(There'd still be quite a bit of growling, mind; piecemeal marketing turns my stomach too. :7)

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

L2 implants again?
Seriously though, if it is a constant thing, you should really go to a physician.

I actually did make an appointment with a doctor recently since the headaches are getting more frequent and more annoying.

Harby acting up again? I would recommend you should go and visit the nearest C-SEC office.

[byne]

estebanus wrote...

Restrider wrote...

I kind of miss the atmospheric difference between letting the Council live or die that was present in ME2.
Alien shop-owners being rude to you, random Asari hating you, Avina informing you that you should not travel alone on some parts of the Citadel as a human...
Nothing of that was implemented in ME3, at least I haven't noticed it yet.
And now I am out for real.

It's like the entire choice was made defunct. Not only that, but in my renegade playthrough, I was pretty sure that the new council was supposed to be an all-human one, that's what Udina said, and that was also implied in ME2. Why is the council now made out of the original council, just that they have different skins? They even act the same way!

My renegade character also wanted an all human council at the end of ME1, but I'm fairly sure even ME2 implied there were still aliens on the council.

Modifié par byne, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:01 .

[Big_Boss9]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

Last I checked, I was pretty certain there was indeed some difference in your EMS if you killed the council vs if you kept them alive.

I thought it was negligible difference, a matter of 10-50 points something like that. Since if you don't save them the Alliance fleets don't lose as many numbers and are full strength by ME3.

Correct. If you let the Council die, you will end up with a net gain of 30 points.

[MegumiAzusa]

estebanus wrote...

Restrider wrote...

I kind of miss the atmospheric difference between letting the Council live or die that was present in ME2.
Alien shop-owners being rude to you, random Asari hating you, Avina informing you that you should not travel alone on some parts of the Citadel as a human...
Nothing of that was implemented in ME3, at least I haven't noticed it yet.
And now I am out for real.

It's like the entire choice was made defunct. Not only that, but in my renegade playthrough, I was pretty sure that the new council was supposed to be an all-human one, that's what Udina said, and that was also implied in ME2. Why is the council now made out of the original council, just that they have different skins? They even act the same way!

They actually act completely different in ME3 but come to the same conclusions. And for the changes in attitude: indoctrination

[MaximizedAction]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Quoting myself for a moment, found something cool:

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I still love how the most often heard complaint about IT (that the implications of those 'assumptions' are that the story ends with Shepard in the rubble) can be heard in the game:

Dominic Osaba: But what I need is proof! I can't take your word for this. Those assumptions merely leave my son stranded in enemy territory. Bilal may still be alive!

So I looked up the meaning of Bilal and it is Arabic for 'Chosen one'.

http://www.baby-name...ning/bilal.html



BBL, catching up with thread.

What else is there to say than: simply mind blowing, as usual.

[Home run MF]

Big_Boss9 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

Last I checked, I was pretty certain there was indeed some difference in your EMS if you killed the council vs if you kept them alive.

I thought it was negligible difference, a matter of 10-50 points something like that. Since if you don't save them the Alliance fleets don't lose as many numbers and are full strength by ME3.

Correct. If you let the Council die, you will end up with a net gain of 30 points.

I was under the impression that if you save the council and save Valern in ME3 you get more war assets.

[jojon2se]

Big_Boss9 wrote...
Correct. If you let the Council die, you will end up with a net gain of 30 points.

I seem to recall seeing comparisons that conclude the immediate difference is such a net gain, but if you include playing your ME3 cards right, regarding a few matters which are circumstantial to the decision, the scale tips a little bit the other way. Wrong?

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Quoting myself for a moment, found something cool:

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I still love how the most often heard complaint about IT (that the implications of those 'assumptions' are that the story ends with Shepard in the rubble) can be heard in the game:

Dominic Osaba: But what I need is proof! I can't take your word for this. Those assumptions merely leave my son stranded in enemy territory. Bilal may still be alive!

So I looked up the meaning of Bilal and it is Arabic for 'Chosen one'.

http://www.baby-name...ning/bilal.html



BBL, catching up with thread.

What else is there to say than: simply mind blowing, as usual.

Yes. Just like Matrix >.>

[DoomsdayDevice]

This is an older thing I still wanted to respond to;

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

 I would have more faith in AI if they weren't based on Reaper code.

I do want to trust synthetics, my paragon Shep always has. I just have sincere doubts about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

I take it you killed the geth then?

I've always made peace. This is my first playthrough where I will side with the Quarians.

Congrats Doomsday, you've successfully bought the kid's BS.

Proving the Reapers point by trying to fight them

I'm not sure what you guys are getting at here, but let me clarify my standpoint on this.

First off, I'm still playing through the game, and I might actually end up changing my mind about this, depending on how I'll experience the whole thing this time.

If I will be siding with the Quarians, it will not be because I agree with the Starbinger BS that synthetics will always turn on organics.

Several reasons:

- My Shepard trusts synthetics, but the problem I'm having with this case is the whole Reaper code thing.

We were talking about pattern recognition earlier, well, in this case I'd like to point to several things. If you have read the topic in my signature, you may be aware that I am of the opinion that Javik (and From Ashes in general) has some important things to say in the foreshadowing department. The following thing is foreshadowing synthesis IMO, but there's more to it.

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

We're talking about a race that can't live on their homeworld any more. Sound like Quarians? Coincidence? If you let Legion use the Reaper code, and you make peace, the Geth will start uploading themselves into the suits of the Quarians to boost their immune systems and such.

That's not everything though, the Reapers were involved as well.

Javik: "In my cycle, a race called the Zha used machines, the Zha'til, as synthetic symbiotes. The Reapers subjugated the Zha'til as they have the geth. Their mechanical swarms blotted out the sky. They were brutal,
merciless."

Tali: "Keelah. What did you do?"

Javik: "We sent their star into supernova. I believe the Zha would have thanked us."

That's two times that he explicitly draws the parallel to the Geth, not to mention the creepy similarities between the Zha and the Quarians.

And then, of course, there's Legion betraying his own ideals:

Legion: an interesting choice, Shepard Commander. Your species was offered everything Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms. You are more like us than we thought.

I hope you understand it is not because I don't trust synthetics. It's that I don't trust Legion's sudden enthusiasm for a free Reaper upgrade. Whatever happened to achieving our own future, on our own terms?

I think it resembles a really devious trap in which Legion simply can't pass up instant ascension, and Shepard goes along because he doesn't want to kill either of his friends, all in the name of everlasting peace between synthetics and organics. Throw in Legion's sacrifice and we've got ourselves a beautiful case of synthesis foreshadowing.

It isn't for nothing that synthesis supporters always bring up this argument when debating IT-ers.

Think about it, it would be so devious. We think we're making peace between synthetics and organics, the Geth think they ascend to true AI status, the Quarians think they'll all benefit from this, but the Reapers have the last laugh.

By once again not being able to withstand the temptation to use their 'gifts', we pave the road to hell with good intentions. The Reaper code may take over the Geth, the AI will then seize control of the Quarians and we could have ourselves a new generation of Collectors.

Once again, it's not because I don't want to trust synthetics, I want to. But either I have my confirmation bias and my pattern recognition mixed up, or you guys are way too sure of yourselves that the writers would never pull such a devious trick on us, in which case I ask you: why do you believe in IT again?

I had another quote that was relevant, but I forgot what it was. I'll post it later if I can remember what it was.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:14 .

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Yes. Just like Matrix >.>

Well....yes but...hm

[Bill Casey]

Big_Boss9 wrote...

Correct. If you let the Council die, you will end up with a net gain of 30 points.

You get bigger net gain by saving the council in ME1 and then saving the salarian councilor from Kai Leng...
If it's the old salarian councilor, you get more war assets overall...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:20 .

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

This is an older thing I still wanted to respond to;

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

 I would have more faith in AI if they weren't based on Reaper code.

I do want to trust synthetics, my paragon Shep always has. I just have sincere doubts about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

I take it you killed the geth then?

I've always made peace. This is my first playthrough where I will side with the Quarians.

Congrats Doomsday, you've successfully bought the kid's BS.

Proving the Reapers point by trying to fight them

I'm not sure what you guys are getting at here, but let me clarify my standpoint on this.

First off, I'm still playing through the game, and I might actually end up changing my mind about this, depending on how I'll experience the whole thing this time.

If I will be siding with the Quarians, it will not be because I agree with the Starbinger BS that synthetics will always turn on organics.

Several reasons:

- My Shepard trusts synthetics, but the problem I'm having with this case is the whole Reaper code thing.

We were talking about pattern recognition earlier, well, in this case I'd like to point to several things. If you have read the topic in my signature, you may be aware that I am of the opinion that Javik (and From Ashes in general) has some important things to say in the foreshadowing department. The following thing is foreshadowing synthesis IMO, but there's more to it.

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

We're talking about a race that can't live on their homeworld any more. Sound like Quarians? Coincidence? If you let Legion use the Reaper code, and you make peace, the Geth will start uploading themselves into the suits of the Quarians to boost their immune systems and such.

That's not everything though, the Reapers were involved as well.

Javik: "In my cycle, a race called the Zha used machines, the Zha'til, as synthetic symbiotes. The Reapers subjugated the Zha'til as they have the geth. Their mechanical swarms blotted out the sky. They were brutal,
merciless."

Tali: "Keelah. What did you do?"

Javik: "We sent their star into supernova. I believe the Zha would have thanked us."

That's two times that he explicitly draws the parallel to the Geth, not to mention the creepy similarities between the Zha and the Quarians.

And then, of course, there's Legion betraying his own ideals:

Legion: an interesting choice, Shepard Commander. Your species was offered everything Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms. You are more like us than we thought.

I hope you understand it is not because I don't trust synthetics. It's that I don't trust Legion's sudden enthusiasm for a free Reaper upgrade. Whatever happened to achieving our own future, on our own terms?

I think it resembles a really devious trap in which Legion simply can't pass up instant ascension, and Shepard goes along because he doesn't want to kill either of his friends, all in the name of everlasting peace between synthetics and organics. Throw in Legion's sacrifice and we've got ourselves a beautiful case of synthesis foreshadowing.

It isn't for nothing that synthesis supporters always bring up this argument when debating IT-ers.

Think about it, it would be so devious. We think we're making peace between synthetics and organics, the Geth think they ascend to true AI status, the Quarians think they'll all benefit from this, but the Reapers have the last laugh.

By once again not being able to withstand the temptation to use their 'gifts', we pave the road to hell with good intentions. The Reaper code may take over the Geth, the AI will then seize control of the Quarians and we could have ourselves a new generation of Collectors.

Once again, it's not because I don't want to trust synthetics, I want to. But either I have my confirmation bias and my pattern recognition mixed up, or you guys are way too sure of yourselves that the writers would never pull such a devious trick on us, in which case I ask you: why do you believe in IT again?

I had another quote that was relevant, but I forgot what it was. I'll post it later if I can remember what it was.

Point is that the Geth count indeed as positive. It also doesn't get subtracted like with the Rachni Queen. Sure it's possible, but nothing to indicate it as the truth.

[Big_Boss9]

Bill Casey wrote...

Big_Boss9 wrote...

Correct. If you let the Council die, you will end up with a net gain of 30 points.

You get bigger net gain by saving the council in ME1 and then saving the salarian councilor from Kai Leng...
If it's the old salarian councilor, you get more war assets overall...

True, I was just referring to the short term effect at the start of ME3. The other way (the path you and a couple others have mentioned) nets you around 55 more points (plus some more if you do the heating stabilizers sidequest) after Citadel II.

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

This is an older thing I still wanted to respond to;

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

 I would have more faith in AI if they weren't based on Reaper code.

I do want to trust synthetics, my paragon Shep always has. I just have sincere doubts about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

I take it you killed the geth then?

I've always made peace. This is my first playthrough where I will side with the Quarians.

Congrats Doomsday, you've successfully bought the kid's BS.

Proving the Reapers point by trying to fight them

I'm not sure what you guys are getting at here, but let me clarify my standpoint on this.

First off, I'm still playing through the game, and I might actually end up changing my mind about this, depending on how I'll experience the whole thing this time.

If I will be siding with the Quarians, it will not be because I agree with the Starbinger BS that synthetics will always turn on organics.

Several reasons:

- My Shepard trusts synthetics, but the problem I'm having with this case is the whole Reaper code thing.

We were talking about pattern recognition earlier, well, in this case I'd like to point to several things. If you have read the topic in my signature, you may be aware that I am of the opinion that Javik (and From Ashes in general) has some important things to say in the foreshadowing department. The following thing is foreshadowing synthesis IMO, but there's more to it.

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

We're talking about a race that can't live on their homeworld any more. Sound like Quarians? Coincidence? If you let Legion use the Reaper code, and you make peace, the Geth will start uploading themselves into the suits of the Quarians to boost their immune systems and such.

That's not everything though, the Reapers were involved as well.

Javik: "In my cycle, a race called the Zha used machines, the Zha'til, as synthetic symbiotes. The Reapers subjugated the Zha'til as they have the geth. Their mechanical swarms blotted out the sky. They were brutal,
merciless."

Tali: "Keelah. What did you do?"

Javik: "We sent their star into supernova. I believe the Zha would have thanked us."

That's two times that he explicitly draws the parallel to the Geth, not to mention the creepy similarities between the Zha and the Quarians.

And then, of course, there's Legion betraying his own ideals:

Legion: an interesting choice, Shepard Commander. Your species was offered everything Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms. You are more like us than we thought.

I hope you understand it is not because I don't trust synthetics. It's that I don't trust Legion's sudden enthusiasm for a free Reaper upgrade. Whatever happened to achieving our own future, on our own terms?

I think it resembles a really devious trap in which Legion simply can't pass up instant ascension, and Shepard goes along because he doesn't want to kill either of his friends, all in the name of everlasting peace between synthetics and organics. Throw in Legion's sacrifice and we've got ourselves a beautiful case of synthesis foreshadowing.

It isn't for nothing that synthesis supporters always bring up this argument when debating IT-ers.

Think about it, it would be so devious. We think we're making peace between synthetics and organics, the Geth think they ascend to true AI status, the Quarians think they'll all benefit from this, but the Reapers have the last laugh.

By once again not being able to withstand the temptation to use their 'gifts', we pave the road to hell with good intentions. The Reaper code may take over the Geth, the AI will then seize control of the Quarians and we could have ourselves a new generation of Collectors.

Once again, it's not because I don't want to trust synthetics, I want to. But either I have my confirmation bias and my pattern recognition mixed up, or you guys are way too sure of yourselves that the writers would never pull such a devious trick on us, in which case I ask you: why do you believe in IT again?

I had another quote that was relevant, but I forgot what it was. I'll post it later if I can remember what it was.

Point is that the Geth count indeed as positive. It also doesn't get subtracted like with the Rachni Queen. Sure it's possible, but nothing to indicate it as the truth.

Sure, the Geth and the Quarians are still on your side, so they count as war assets in this game.

What I'm saying is, if we get a sequel (like I think we will), we could be screwed.

Also, I think I posted several quotes in there that indicate it could be truth. Don't act like I base this on nothing. Surely you must be able to see the parallels I'm drawing.

[CoolioThane]

Just seen Seven Psychopaths. Great film.

Need to pack now, as I'm back home tomorrow after a fecking tutorial at 9am.

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

This is an older thing I still wanted to respond to;

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

estebanus wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

 I would have more faith in AI if they weren't based on Reaper code.

I do want to trust synthetics, my paragon Shep always has. I just have sincere doubts about 'repurposing Reaper code'.

I take it you killed the geth then?

I've always made peace. This is my first playthrough where I will side with the Quarians.

Congrats Doomsday, you've successfully bought the kid's BS.

Proving the Reapers point by trying to fight them

I'm not sure what you guys are getting at here, but let me clarify my standpoint on this.

First off, I'm still playing through the game, and I might actually end up changing my mind about this, depending on how I'll experience the whole thing this time.

If I will be siding with the Quarians, it will not be because I agree with the Starbinger BS that synthetics will always turn on organics.

Several reasons:

- My Shepard trusts synthetics, but the problem I'm having with this case is the whole Reaper code thing.

We were talking about pattern recognition earlier, well, in this case I'd like to point to several things. If you have read the topic in my signature, you may be aware that I am of the opinion that Javik (and From Ashes in general) has some important things to say in the foreshadowing department. The following thing is foreshadowing synthesis IMO, but there's more to it.

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

We're talking about a race that can't live on their homeworld any more. Sound like Quarians? Coincidence? If you let Legion use the Reaper code, and you make peace, the Geth will start uploading themselves into the suits of the Quarians to boost their immune systems and such.

That's not everything though, the Reapers were involved as well.

Javik: "In my cycle, a race called the Zha used machines, the Zha'til, as synthetic symbiotes. The Reapers subjugated the Zha'til as they have the geth. Their mechanical swarms blotted out the sky. They were brutal,
merciless."

Tali: "Keelah. What did you do?"

Javik: "We sent their star into supernova. I believe the Zha would have thanked us."

That's two times that he explicitly draws the parallel to the Geth, not to mention the creepy similarities between the Zha and the Quarians.

And then, of course, there's Legion betraying his own ideals:

Legion: an interesting choice, Shepard Commander. Your species was offered everything Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms. You are more like us than we thought.

I hope you understand it is not because I don't trust synthetics. It's that I don't trust Legion's sudden enthusiasm for a free Reaper upgrade. Whatever happened to achieving our own future, on our own terms?

I think it resembles a really devious trap in which Legion simply can't pass up instant ascension, and Shepard goes along because he doesn't want to kill either of his friends, all in the name of everlasting peace between synthetics and organics. Throw in Legion's sacrifice and we've got ourselves a beautiful case of synthesis foreshadowing.

It isn't for nothing that synthesis supporters always bring up this argument when debating IT-ers.

Think about it, it would be so devious. We think we're making peace between synthetics and organics, the Geth think they ascend to true AI status, the Quarians think they'll all benefit from this, but the Reapers have the last laugh.

By once again not being able to withstand the temptation to use their 'gifts', we pave the road to hell with good intentions. The Reaper code may take over the Geth, the AI will then seize control of the Quarians and we could have ourselves a new generation of Collectors.

Once again, it's not because I don't want to trust synthetics, I want to. But either I have my confirmation bias and my pattern recognition mixed up, or you guys are way too sure of yourselves that the writers would never pull such a devious trick on us, in which case I ask you: why do you believe in IT again?

I had another quote that was relevant, but I forgot what it was. I'll post it later if I can remember what it was.

Point is that the Geth count indeed as positive. It also doesn't get subtracted like with the Rachni Queen. Sure it's possible, but nothing to indicate it as the truth.

Sure, the Geth and the Quarians are still on your side, so they count as war assets in this game.

What I'm saying is, if we get a sequel (like I think we will), we could be screwed.

Also, I think I posted several quotes in there that indicate it could be truth. Don't act like I base this on nothing. Surely you must be able to see the parallels I'm drawing.

Of course there are parallels, but wouldn't it make more sense having the Geth backstabbing Sword instead of Geth shooting the Reapers if they were under control? There is just no reason for this behavior if they were controlled.

[Humakt83]

Glad I'm not the only one who has discovered the parallels between Zha'til and Geth. Makes forging the peace a more interesting choice.

But having effects in ME 4? I doubt we'll have a chance to import our saves.

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Of course there are parallels, but wouldn't it make more sense having the Geth backstabbing Sword instead of Geth shooting the Reapers if they were under control? There is just no reason for this behavior if they were controlled.

Or Reapers could themselves backstab the sword and shield fleet by having the rest of the Reapers from the galaxy to enter the sol system.

Modifié par Humakt83, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:40 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@estebanus

I apologize if my last post seemed offensive towards your point of view of the Geth v Quarian situation. I just lost two hours worth of hard work on my computer so I was angry and I took it out on your post. I'm sorry.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[MegumiAzusa]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

@MegumiAzusa

I apologize if my last post seemed offensive towards your point of view of the Geth v Quarian situation. I just lost two hours worth of hard work on my computer so I was angry and I took it out on your post. I'm sorry.

Uh I think you mean estebanus.

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

This is an older thing I still wanted to respond to;

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Congrats Doomsday, you've successfully bought the kid's BS.

Proving the Reapers point by trying to fight them

I'm not sure what you guys are getting at here, but let me clarify my standpoint on this.

First off, I'm still playing through the game, and I might actually end up changing my mind about this, depending on how I'll experience the whole thing this time.

If I will be siding with the Quarians, it will not be because I agree with the Starbinger BS that synthetics will always turn on organics.

Several reasons:

- My Shepard trusts synthetics, but the problem I'm having with this case is the whole Reaper code thing.

We were talking about pattern recognition earlier, well, in this case I'd like to point to several things. If you have read the topic in my signature, you may be aware that I am of the opinion that Javik (and From Ashes in general) has some important things to say in the foreshadowing department. The following thing is foreshadowing synthesis IMO, but there's more to it.

Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.

We're talking about a race that can't live on their homeworld any more. Sound like Quarians? Coincidence? If you let Legion use the Reaper code, and you make peace, the Geth will start uploading themselves into the suits of the Quarians to boost their immune systems and such.

That's not everything though, the Reapers were involved as well.

Javik: "In my cycle, a race called the Zha used machines, the Zha'til, as synthetic symbiotes. The Reapers subjugated the Zha'til as they have the geth. Their mechanical swarms blotted out the sky. They were brutal,
merciless."

Tali: "Keelah. What did you do?"

Javik: "We sent their star into supernova. I believe the Zha would have thanked us."

That's two times that he explicitly draws the parallel to the Geth, not to mention the creepy similarities between the Zha and the Quarians.

And then, of course, there's Legion betraying his own ideals:

Legion: an interesting choice, Shepard Commander. Your species was offered everything Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms. You are more like us than we thought.

I hope you understand it is not because I don't trust synthetics. It's that I don't trust Legion's sudden enthusiasm for a free Reaper upgrade. Whatever happened to achieving our own future, on our own terms?

I think it resembles a really devious trap in which Legion simply can't pass up instant ascension, and Shepard goes along because he doesn't want to kill either of his friends, all in the name of everlasting peace between synthetics and organics. Throw in Legion's sacrifice and we've got ourselves a beautiful case of synthesis foreshadowing.

It isn't for nothing that synthesis supporters always bring up this argument when debating IT-ers.

Think about it, it would be so devious. We think we're making peace between synthetics and organics, the Geth think they ascend to true AI status, the Quarians think they'll all benefit from this, but the Reapers have the last laugh.

By once again not being able to withstand the temptation to use their 'gifts', we pave the road to hell with good intentions. The Reaper code may take over the Geth, the AI will then seize control of the Quarians and we could have ourselves a new generation of Collectors.

Once again, it's not because I don't want to trust synthetics, I want to. But either I have my confirmation bias and my pattern recognition mixed up, or you guys are way too sure of yourselves that the writers would never pull such a devious trick on us, in which case I ask you: why do you believe in IT again?

I had another quote that was relevant, but I forgot what it was. I'll post it later if I can remember what it was.

Point is that the Geth count indeed as positive. It also doesn't get subtracted like with the Rachni Queen. Sure it's possible, but nothing to indicate it as the truth.

Sure, the Geth and the Quarians are still on your side, so they count as war assets in this game.

What I'm saying is, if we get a sequel (like I think we will), we could be screwed.

Also, I think I posted several quotes in there that indicate it could be truth. Don't act like I base this on nothing. Surely you must be able to see the parallels I'm drawing.

Of course there are parallels, but wouldn't it make more sense having the Geth backstabbing Sword instead of Geth shooting the Reapers if they were under control? There is just no reason for this behavior if they were controlled.

They may not be controlled yet. They could be like a walking time bomb. The Reaper code could be slowly rewriting itself (like we know it can do), and at the opportune moment the transformation may take place.

Sure, the Reapers are taking a little more fire for now, but in the end they'll have lost two enemy factions and gained one ally. That's a net win of three. Makes all the sense in the world to me.

Also, if that happens at a later time, the effect of the betrayal will be all the more devastating and surprising, since everybody trusts the Geth & Quarians now.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

@MegumiAzusa

I apologize if my last post seemed offensive towards your point of view of the Geth v Quarian situation. I just lost two hours worth of hard work on my computer so I was angry and I took it out on your post. I'm sorry.

Uh I think you mean estebanus.

Oops, why did I say you. Yes, i meant estebanus. Thanks for correcting me.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:46 .

[TSA_383]

So have I missed any news of any type at all whilst my finals were ongoing?

[DoomsdayDevice]

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'm replaying Omega and found something interesting to add to Doomsday's comparison of the reactor scene and the ending. Not only is the reactor scene like the decision chamber, so is the part leading up to it.

Once you're within view of the main elevator Nyreen comments it's odd there are no enemies, to which Aria says it means we should be ready for anything. You then go straight down a narrow catwalk to the elevator, which you take up to the reactor room, where the aforementioned ending like scene takes place.

Nice!

I'll add the link for those who missed it:

Omega Reactor - Ending Foreshadowing

[spotlessvoid]

TSA_383 wrote...

So have I missed any news of any type at all whilst my finals were ongoing?

At the VGAs Mike Gamble yelled "IT confirmed ****es" then threw down the mic and swagged off stage. At least that's how I remember it.