80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Restrider wrote...

Yeah, and you totally forget the dialogue where Mordin states that he ran the clinic on Omega as a way to atone to his doings - showing that he has an internal struggle to justify his actions for himself.
Followed by the dialogue in his loyalty mission.

Edit: To say it short:

BleedingUranium wrote...
Someone wasn't paying attention...

And if you paid attention you would have noticed he also said he was the one who checked if it's still working every time. There is some minor struggle but there is no development. Before and after he stands by his decisions and it was the only way because "someone else might have gotten it wrong". Which is basically a lame excuse to justify his actions. He never second guessed that until ME3 where he actually said "I was wrong!" which is also why these words are so strong.

[BleedingUranium]

Xd2delo wrote...

Jacob is useful in that he fleshes out the background, true, but maybe what everyone was responding to is that there wasn't really a great deal of depth to his character.  He appears to have no flaws (for example: Jack has her anger, Miranda has her ruthlessness, Thane his willingness to act as a hired killer), and he's mainly interesting in terms of how he gives depth to other characters.  The plotline with his father pretty much pops up and is just there.  He doesn't express any particular angst about his father's absence prior to that moment.  He's just there to be nice and answer questions.  You rarely have any conflict with him, so there's zero dramatic tension.

Huh, that never occurred to me as the problem.

[Arian Dynas]

Also, Megumi, Raven, Coolio, stop fighting. Now. I mean it.

[BleedingUranium]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Yeah, and you totally forget the dialogue where Mordin states that he ran the clinic on Omega as a way to atone to his doings - showing that he has an internal struggle to justify his actions for himself.
Followed by the dialogue in his loyalty mission.

Edit: To say it short:

BleedingUranium wrote...
Someone wasn't paying attention...

And if you paid attention you would have noticed he also said he was the one who checked if it's still working every time. There is some minor struggle but there is no development. Before and after he stands by his decisions and it was the only way because "someone else might have gotten it wrong". Which is basically a lame excuse to justify his actions. He never second guessed that until ME3 where he actually said "I was wrong!" which is also why these words are so strong.

You don't seem to understand that his character arc spans both ME2 and 3, so of course he didn't have the full change of heart until the end, that's how stories work.

[BleedingUranium]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, Megumi, Raven, Coolio, stop fighting. Now. I mean it.

I'll stop too.


I had stopped playing to type my last post, and it resulted in Shepard staring blankly at the kid for a very long time right after he "explained" Synthesis. So perfect

[masster blaster]

Hello Arian.

[Restrider]

So, what's Jacob's development then (focusing on ME2 here)?

A former Alliance soldier, who was fed up with the red tape so that he joined Cerberus, though still mistrusting TIM. He had a few adventures (as Corsair in the Alliance; the biological agent mission with Miranda -> possible fling) and comments on a few squadmates. Then there is the story of his father. Jacob does not even talk about it after the mission.
In ME3, we learn more about him and he decides to stay with people he cares for.

And to add to my reasoning:
Just read the SB's dossiers on the different squadmates. Guess whose is the most bland, boring and stupid entry? Even the SB agrees with my assertions.
Edit: The most interesting thing about Jacob is Kasumi having a crush on him.

Modifié par Restrider, 14 décembre 2012 - 02:58 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Xd2delo wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Restrider well to be Honest Jacob is just there.

You could say that goes for a few other squadmates, but his story was just meh. I think Jacob is okay, but really he just sucks in combat, and for Fem Shepard story wise ya.... He really hit the low for Fem Shepard. Not to mention he is useless, well almost useless in the suicide mission.

Just there? From a ME2 standpoint He is often used to establish connections, but so is Mordin. Jacob has his sense of morality because of his father and all that is crashing down when he learns the truth. Also his connection to Miranda and other minor details is often shown. Mordin instead, who is loved by many, is just "I reinvented the Genophage, if you don't like it we have nothing else to discuss". It is ME3 where he for the first time shows that he thought about the Genophage and decided it was a mistake. He never did that in ME2. You only needed one conversation with him to basically know everything there is to know.

Jacob is useful in that he fleshes out the background, true, but maybe what everyone was responding to is that there wasn't really a great deal of depth to his character.  He appears to have no flaws (for example: Jack has her anger, Miranda has her ruthlessness, Thane his willingness to act as a hired killer), and he's mainly interesting in terms of how he gives depth to other characters.  The plotline with his father pretty much pops up and is just there.  He doesn't express any particular angst about his father's absence prior to that moment.  He's just there to be nice and answer questions.  You rarely have any conflict with him, so there's zero dramatic tension.

You missed that he is the guy who stands up for his beliefs. That joining Cerberus wasn't an easy decision, but one he made in the end because it's where he thought he could do the most good. His struggle is not as obvious but it's clearly there. Also Jacob grows with any mission that is involving Cerberus because of exactly that. He hasn't seen much more of Cerberus then the cell he is in, and that is the one which reconstructed Shepard. He himself only knew about other things through reputation. Add to that his sense of loyalty. He cannot just quit because he doesn't like some parts when in the greater picture for him it is the greater good.
As a person he could never have worked in other cells, but in the bigger picture he is still working with Cerberus, even if these cells exist, because it's what he thinks is the most useful thing to help people.
This is also the struggle the player has to endure and because of that he is mostly pushed in the background by players and thought of that he just gives exposition.

[Xd2delo]

Restrider wrote...

So, what's Jacob's development then (focusing on ME2 here)?

A former Alliance soldier, who was fed up with the red tape so that he joined Cerberus, though still mistrusting TIM. He had a few adventures (as Corsair in the Alliance; the biological agent mission with Miranda -> possible fling) and comments on a few squadmates. Then there is the story of his father. Jacob does not even talk about it after the mission.
In ME3, we learn more about him and he decides to stay with people he cares for.

And to add to my reasoning:
Just read the SB's dossiers on the different squadmates. Guess whose is the most bland, boring and stupid entry? Even the SB agrees with my assertions.
Edit: The most interesting thing about Jacob is Kasumi having a crush on him.

But most of that happens offscreen.  His onscreen development, and especially his interactions with Shepard (unless you pursue a romance), are pretty limited.  And, again, you have very little conflict with him.   There's almost no dramatic tension in your interactions.  It's all "hey we're both soldiers who don't really trust this organization but they seem to be doing the right thing, so I guess, ok, whatever."  Glad that's out of the way.

edit: I suppose if you are more openly pro-Cerberus maybe you have SOME conflict.  But even then you don't really fight about it.

Modifié par Xd2delo, 14 décembre 2012 - 03:04 .

[CoolioThane]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Never denied it and can't say if it's true or not without you pointing me to where I did it.
It wasn't insults you said I did, just check the pages for yesterday or the day before where I commented on and you nicely ignored it.

Yeah, cos I was still pissed and thought ignoring you would be better than getting in another argument.

Being pissed at someone doesn't mean you need to invent something to badmouth that person.
At any point where I was here in the last 3 days I saw only one liners from CT that all came down to "I love IT and it's the only thing for me" without any base, often, like his last, completely without connection to anything else. I didn't invent anything here.

Whoah, braaa. I even put the "haha" in there to indicate it was a joke.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them, love 

I like your posts because they remind me how lucky I am to have a positive, optimistic persona. They do make me feel a bit sad though, as it's hard thinking what it must be like being you 

EDIT: Okay Arian, though you know how I feel about people

Modifié par CoolioThane, 14 décembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[MegumiAzusa]

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Never denied it and can't say if it's true or not without you pointing me to where I did it.
It wasn't insults you said I did, just check the pages for yesterday or the day before where I commented on and you nicely ignored it.

Yeah, cos I was still pissed and thought ignoring you would be better than getting in another argument.

Being pissed at someone doesn't mean you need to invent something to badmouth that person.
At any point where I was here in the last 3 days I saw only one liners from CT that all came down to "I love IT and it's the only thing for me" without any base, often, like his last, completely without connection to anything else. I didn't invent anything here.

I've never invented anything to badmouth you.

Yes you did.

[demersel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

It took me 30 minutes, but I just finished reading The Wall, and I think it's my favourite so far! Very well written!

O.o it was?

Wow, and here I thought I was rambling like a maniac.

be the time you finish telling about mass effect 1 - you kind of are one. Grammar and sentance structure and general coherance goes out of the window completely - but it is still very interesting to read. just becomes difficult - if I wasn't aware of  Mass Effect, it's lore and themes and plot - i would have lost you I think. 

But still I really like your work, and think that it is fantastic. 
Can I steal it from you and post it on my page in VK.com social network? (with copyright of course)

Modifié par demersel, 14 décembre 2012 - 03:04 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Yeah, and you totally forget the dialogue where Mordin states that he ran the clinic on Omega as a way to atone to his doings - showing that he has an internal struggle to justify his actions for himself.
Followed by the dialogue in his loyalty mission.

Edit: To say it short:

BleedingUranium wrote...
Someone wasn't paying attention...

And if you paid attention you would have noticed he also said he was the one who checked if it's still working every time. There is some minor struggle but there is no development. Before and after he stands by his decisions and it was the only way because "someone else might have gotten it wrong". Which is basically a lame excuse to justify his actions. He never second guessed that until ME3 where he actually said "I was wrong!" which is also why these words are so strong.

You don't seem to understand that his character arc spans both ME2 and 3, so of course he didn't have the full change of heart until the end, that's how stories work.

I was just making a point as Mordin was already liked in ME2 while having 0 growth, while Jacob was not while having much more.

[RavenEyry]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I've never invented anything to badmouth you.

Yes you did.

Saying that doesn't make it true. The only things I've badmouthed you for are your constant hostility, your pretentiousness and your hypocrisy. None of those were invented.

If I did say something stupid and wrong I've forgotten, point it out and I'll apologise for it.

[Xd2delo]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Yeah, and you totally forget the dialogue where Mordin states that he ran the clinic on Omega as a way to atone to his doings - showing that he has an internal struggle to justify his actions for himself.
Followed by the dialogue in his loyalty mission.

Edit: To say it short:

BleedingUranium wrote...
Someone wasn't paying attention...

And if you paid attention you would have noticed he also said he was the one who checked if it's still working every time. There is some minor struggle but there is no development. Before and after he stands by his decisions and it was the only way because "someone else might have gotten it wrong". Which is basically a lame excuse to justify his actions. He never second guessed that until ME3 where he actually said "I was wrong!" which is also why these words are so strong.

You don't seem to understand that his character arc spans both ME2 and 3, so of course he didn't have the full change of heart until the end, that's how stories work.

I was just making a point as Mordin was already liked in ME2 while having 0 growth, while Jacob was not while having much more.

Because growth isn't necessarily what people like about a character? 

[Restrider]

Xd2delo wrote...

Restrider wrote...

So, what's Jacob's development then (focusing on ME2 here)?

A former Alliance soldier, who was fed up with the red tape so that he joined Cerberus, though still mistrusting TIM. He had a few adventures (as Corsair in the Alliance; the biological agent mission with Miranda -> possible fling) and comments on a few squadmates. Then there is the story of his father. Jacob does not even talk about it after the mission.
In ME3, we learn more about him and he decides to stay with people he cares for.

And to add to my reasoning:
Just read the SB's dossiers on the different squadmates. Guess whose is the most bland, boring and stupid entry? Even the SB agrees with my assertions.
Edit: The most interesting thing about Jacob is Kasumi having a crush on him.

But most of that happens offscreen.  His onscreen development, and especially his interactions with Shepard (unless you pursue a romance), are pretty limited.  And, again, you have very little conflict with him.   There's almost no dramatic tension in your interactions.  It's all "hey we're both soldiers who don't really trust this organization but they seem to be doing the right thing, so I guess, ok, whatever."  Glad that's out of the way.

No argument here.
Next to these reasons, people dislike his character for his sucky-ness in combat, his somewhat rude attitude towards Thane and Tali, the way Shepard (esp. femShep) acts while having a discussion with him (highschool girl anyone?), the nature of his romance being nothing more than  fling (and turning out to not be the only woman in his life at that time) and his uninspired one-liners.

[masster blaster]

Look can we stop arguing with Eachother. Honest this has been going on for about 2 weeks already, and I am pretty much done with this. If you want to argue PM eachother. Other wise act like adults, shake hands, and make up. Heck I am younger than most of you, and I am acting more mature than you.

[demersel]

Btw, Arian, I've got a thing i want to discuss with you, an idea about Mass Effect certain character - really curious to know what you'd think.

[BleedingUranium]

The primary background sound in the breath scene is definitely wind whistling.

[MegumiAzusa]

RavenEyry wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I've never invented anything to badmouth you.

Yes you did.

Saying that doesn't make it true. The only things I've badmouthed you for are your constant hostility, your pretentiousness and your hypocrisy. None of those were invented.

If I did say something stupid and wrong I've forgotten, point it out and I'll apologise for it.

As you don't want to search for the posts where I just insulted you without any reason I am too lazy to search the posts from yesterday and the day before to find the post.

[hukbum]

Gnah ...

[masster blaster]

So what was this about the Synthesis thread debuncking myths about Synthesis?

[Xd2delo]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The primary background sound in the breath scene is definitely wind whistling.

Perhaps it's from reentry. 

[KyreneZA]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Kyrene wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Don't mind him, it's what he does.

And what is it that you do (apart from being miserable and often beligerent, grinding axes, and generally negative) here these days, Megumi? I used to see you as one of the checks and balances in this thread, but I have to really wonder nowadays...

Well let me think, I point out a flaw, get immediately called names and being negative. Trying to explain my points, same arguments and insults 24/7.
It's not just one side creating these bad vibes here.

So, if you think you're the one side to this 'two sides of hostility, arguments and insults,' remove your part in it. "Don't mind him, it's what he does." is you firing the first shot (regardles of the veracity of your statement), not being the victim. You can only play the victim card when you're never at fault.

Take a break. You're pretty much a self-appointed policeman here. Bad IT stinks so badly that it doesn't need correcting, moreso if that correcting is making you miserable. As mostly an outsider here, it just seems like you are disagreeing with everyone for the sake of disagreeing nowadays. This leads to all the other negative things you've just mentioned.

[Arian Dynas]

demersel wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

It took me 30 minutes, but I just finished reading The Wall, and I think it's my favourite so far! Very well written!

O.o it was?

Wow, and here I thought I was rambling like a maniac.

be the time you finish telling about mass effect 1 - you kind of are one. Grammar and sentance structure and general coherance goes out of the window completely - but it is still very interesting to read. just becomes difficult - if I wasn't aware of  Mass Effect, it's lore and themes and plot - i would have lost you I think. 

But still I really like your work, and think that it is fantastic. 
Can I steal it from you and post it on my page in VK.com social network? (with copyright of course)

Shore, and shoot me a PM about that question you got.