80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

Eryri wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

That's the cool thing about many of these references that we're finding, you can interpret them as if the story already happened, as if the story is on some infinite loop, and Anderson is asking you if you picked destroy in the end, or got sidelined by the catalyst trying to talk you out of it.

It's the kind of foreshadowing you can't notice on a first playthrough, but when replaying, these things just stand out.

Like this one:

Turian: Listen, honey, please... This is how it has to be. Everyone is going through this.
Asari: I know, and I'm sure you'll be fine, but it's just so damn inconvenient. It's like we're pre-spaceflight all of a sudden.

(As if they just had to go through the experience of the ending - the relays getting destroyed, etcetera. It's a way of telling the players - don't worry: everybody's going through this.)

James Vega: It's... not right. It looks pretty, calm and peaceful, but it's not right. It's all just an illusion. (...)
Shepard: I can hardly believe it, myself. Like everything back on Earth was some kind of nightmare.

Back on Earth is literally referring to the beginning of the game, but you can also interpret it as if talking about the last time you played the ending - and then it becomes interesting.

This time-loop stuff is really interesting, if a bit trippy. Certainly hadn't occured to me. Do you think some sort of time paradox thing might be what Bioware really has in mind? 

No, that's not what I'm suggesting, sorry. It was just a way of explaining the concept of foreshadowing that is only apparent after completing the game once.

For example, there's also foreshadowing that's noticeable on a first playthrough.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 15 décembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[BatmanTurian]

Eryri wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

That's the cool thing about many of these references that we're finding, you can interpret them as if the story already happened, as if the story is on some infinite loop, and Anderson is asking you if you picked destroy in the end, or got sidelined by the catalyst trying to talk you out of it.

It's the kind of foreshadowing you can't notice on a first playthrough, but when replaying, these things just stand out.

Like this one:

Turian: Listen, honey, please... This is how it has to be. Everyone is going through this.
Asari: I know, and I'm sure you'll be fine, but it's just so damn inconvenient. It's like we're pre-spaceflight all of a sudden.

(As if they just had to go through the experience of the ending - the relays getting destroyed, etcetera. It's a way of telling the players - don't worry: everybody's going through this.)

James Vega: It's... not right. It looks pretty, calm and peaceful, but it's not right. It's all just an illusion. (...)
Shepard: I can hardly believe it, myself. Like everything back on Earth was some kind of nightmare.

Back on Earth is literally referring to the beginning of the game, but you can also interpret it as if talking about the last time you played the ending - and then it becomes interesting.

This time-loop stuff is really interesting, if a bit trippy. Certainly hadn't occured to me. Do you think some sort of time paradox thing might be what Bioware really has in mind? 

I don't think he means a literal timeloop. He means something like when you read a really good, deep novel over again and you start noticing all of the little things you missed the first time that connect together and allude to each other, as any good writer does with a story. It changes the context.

[spotlessvoid]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS:

I changed my mind. No pictures.

Why'd you change your mind?

The part where anime is involved. Sorry.

[Eryri]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Eryri wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

While I like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood more than the original Fullmetal Alchemist, both are amazing and i highly reccomend them both. Just remember, the two are alternate realities so they share almost nothing except enviornment and characters.

OK. Thanks for the tip.

How do you feel about spoilers, because said comparison will be full of them, at least for Brotherhood?

I wouldn't worry too much about spoiling things as long as you post warnings. I'll probably start with the original version anyway, so I'll probably have forgotten all about them if I ever get round to Brotherhood. 

[byne]

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS:

I changed my mind. No pictures.

Why'd you change your mind?

The part where anime is involved. Sorry.

If the pictures help to make his point, he should use them. I dont like anime either, but still.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS:

I changed my mind. No pictures.

Why'd you change your mind?

The part where anime is involved. Sorry.

Aww

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS:

I changed my mind. No pictures.

Why'd you change your mind?

The part where anime is involved. Sorry.

If the pictures help to make his point, he should use them. I dont like anime either, but still.

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

[Eryri]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

No, that's not what I'm suggesting, sorry. It was just a way of explaining the concept of foreshadowing that is only apparent after completing the game once.

For example, there's also foreshadowing that's noticeable on a first playthrough.

Ah, right-o.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Eryri wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Eryri wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

While I like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood more than the original Fullmetal Alchemist, both are amazing and i highly reccomend them both. Just remember, the two are alternate realities so they share almost nothing except enviornment and characters.

OK. Thanks for the tip.

How do you feel about spoilers, because said comparison will be full of them, at least for Brotherhood?

I wouldn't worry too much about spoiling things as long as you post warnings. I'll probably start with the original version anyway, so I'll probably have forgotten all about them if I ever get round to Brotherhood. 

That's a warning in the first paragraph, and with your plan you'll not be spoiled because the original doesn't have nearly as much in common, and like you said you'll see Brotherhood so far in the future that you'll still be suprised. I've seen the show many times, and I still experience the emotional impact even though I know what's happening

[DoomsdayDevice]

BT, I understand nobody outside this thread cares about the dialogue, it's just discouraging sometimes, how nobody here seems to care either.

For example, that 'coming up for air' line isn't used once.

Garrus: Don't forget to come up for air, there's a lot more war to go.

This is one of my personal favourites, this is IMO the most 4th wall breaking message in the entire game:

Batarian Preacher: Maintain, my brothers and sisters. We have faced adversity and overcome. This is but a test. Remember the pillars of strength that hold the people high. Show the galaxy our resolve. I know that your faith is weak, our government has fallen. But if you hold the pillars of strength in your hearts, please... just don't give up.

Pillars of Strength = the first two games.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me believe.

Seriously.

We WILL get that reveal.

Have faith, my brethren!

[byne]

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The only anime type thing i've ever watched was Avatar, which despite being pretty much in every way anime, is technically not, because it was made in the US.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

LDS:

I changed my mind. No pictures.

Why'd you change your mind?

The part where anime is involved. Sorry.

If the pictures help to make his point, he should use them. I dont like anime either, but still.

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The pictures help illustrate examples, so they do help.
@BatmanTurian, you have great taste, good sir.

[byne]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BT, I understand nobody outside this thread cares about the dialogue, it's just discouraging sometimes, how nobody here seems to care either.

For example, that 'coming up for air' line isn't used once.

Garrus: Don't forget to come up for air, there's a lot more war to go.

This is one of my personal favourites, this is IMO the most 4th wall breaking message in the entire game:

Batarian Preacher: Maintain, my brothers and sisters. We have faced adversity and overcome. This is but a test. Remember the pillars of strength that hold the people high. Show the galaxy our resolve. I know that your faith is weak, our government has fallen. But if you hold the pillars of strength in your hearts, please... just don't give up.

Pillars of Strength = the first two games.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me believe.

Seriously.

We WILL get that reveal.

Have faith, my brethren!

Lots of people just write such things off as coincidences, but the thing is, at this point, there are so many coincidences, that if IT wasnt intended, BioWare deserves some kind of 'unintentional coincidences that all point to one conclusion' world recod.

[spotlessvoid]

DD:
General Pete's comments at the beginning of Omega are pretty awesome too.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The only anime type thing i've ever watched was Avatar, which despite being pretty much in every way anime, is technically not, because it was made in the US.

So you don't like it because it's from Japan? I'm not picking a fight, just curious.

[BatmanTurian]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BT, I understand nobody outside this thread cares about the dialogue, it's just discouraging sometimes, how nobody here seems to care either.

For example, that 'coming up for air' line isn't used once.

Garrus: Don't forget to come up for air, there's a lot more war to go.

This is one of my personal favourites, this is IMO the most 4th wall breaking message in the entire game:

Batarian Preacher: Maintain, my brothers and sisters. We have faced adversity and overcome. This is but a test. Remember the pillars of strength that hold the people high. Show the galaxy our resolve. I know that your faith is weak, our government has fallen. But if you hold the pillars of strength in your hearts, please... just don't give up.

Pillars of Strength = the first two games.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me believe.

Seriously.

We WILL get that reveal.

Have faith, my brethren!

I'm so with you as a novelist and avid reader, man. It's funny how it just seems to fly over people's heads. But what can you do? You can lead a horse to water...

[byne]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The only anime type thing i've ever watched was Avatar, which despite being pretty much in every way anime, is technically not, because it was made in the US.

So you don't like it because it's from Japan? I'm not picking a fight, just curious.

When I say I dont like anime, I dont mean it like most people do, in the sense that they dislike it. I mostly mean I just dont have really any feelings towards it, and have never seen any anime.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BT, I understand nobody outside this thread cares about the dialogue, it's just discouraging sometimes, how nobody here seems to care either.

For example, that 'coming up for air' line isn't used once.

Garrus: Don't forget to come up for air, there's a lot more war to go.

This is one of my personal favourites, this is IMO the most 4th wall breaking message in the entire game:

Batarian Preacher: Maintain, my brothers and sisters. We have faced adversity and overcome. This is but a test. Remember the pillars of strength that hold the people high. Show the galaxy our resolve. I know that your faith is weak, our government has fallen. But if you hold the pillars of strength in your hearts, please... just don't give up.

Pillars of Strength = the first two games.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me believe.

Seriously.

We WILL get that reveal.

Have faith, my brethren!

Lots of people just write such things off as coincidences, but the thing is, at this point, there are so many coincidences, that if IT wasnt intended, BioWare deserves some kind of 'unintentional coincidences that all point to one conclusion' world recod.

"There is no coincidence, only inevitability." - Yuko Ichihara

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The only anime type thing i've ever watched was Avatar, which despite being pretty much in every way anime, is technically not, because it was made in the US.

...

This from the Katawa Shoujo fanboi?

[Eryri]

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

I've not been exposed to much anime, but I've enjoyed some of Studio Ghibli's stuff. Particularly Howl's Moving Castle. Lovely artwork and just the right amount of whimsicality.

I'm really not keen on some of the hyper violent, sexualised stuff though. I once watched a documentary about animation and they showed a brief clip of what I think is called "Hentai"?  

I wish I could unsee that stuff. If only Brain Bleach was a real product.

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The only anime type thing i've ever watched was Avatar, which despite being pretty much in every way anime, is technically not, because it was made in the US.

Yeah, that's American anime, like Teen Titans or Totally Spies. American cartoons are more made for kids, whereas anime typically deals with more mature themes and has a deeper storyline. Yes, sometimes some of them are batsh*t crazy, but they just have a different culture aesthetic.

[spotlessvoid]

Well, if you believe literal is the intended ending, then Bioware indoctrinated themselves. Would that make all the foreshadowing subconscious resistance? Whoooaaa. Lol.

[DoomsdayDevice]

spotlessvoid wrote...

DD:
General Pete's comments at the beginning of Omega are pretty awesome too.

Oh? Do tell!

I did notice the massive foreshadowing in the reactor scene though, I posted a link for that earlier. And then there's that line about Nyreen being easy to manipulate because she doesn't want to sacrifice innocents.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 15 décembre 2012 - 05:31 .

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The only anime type thing i've ever watched was Avatar, which despite being pretty much in every way anime, is technically not, because it was made in the US.

...

This from the Katawa Shoujo fanboi?

Yup. Katawa Shoujo actually did get me interested in maybe watching anime at some point though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

If you can get past the fact that it's anime, some Anime has really good stories, like Code Geass, Eureka Seven, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, etc...

The only anime type thing i've ever watched was Avatar, which despite being pretty much in every way anime, is technically not, because it was made in the US.

So you don't like it because it's from Japan? I'm not picking a fight, just curious.

When I say I dont like anime, I dont mean it like most people do, in the sense that they dislike it. I mostly mean I just dont have really any feelings towards it, and have never seen any anime.

Oh, ok. I thought you meant you disliked it.