80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

Hanar in a word: Hubris.

[BatmanTurian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

You can't argue with someone who thinks there is nothing to this series but bad writing. 

And you can't argue with someone who's apologetic to bad writing and simply justifies any inconsistent or non-sensical part of Mass Effect as "omg indoctrination".

"Mass Effect is an inconistent mess? IMPOSSIBRU! It's probably just more clues for IT." 

It's either that, or you guys simply resort to: "nah that's just your opinion man".

See, dreamgazer? I wasn't wrong in the slightest. It's impossible to debate this.

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

"But in the end, our beliefs are simply too disparate. I believe Mass Effect 3's ending is the worst mistake ever made. And nothing you can say will ever convince me otherwise."

Being a mistake doesn't mean that the idea doesn't have merits that the poster might like to discuss. Of course, I'm speaking generally here, and I might be pointlessly doing so.

I think there's something to the interpretation myself, but I also strongly doubt that any kind of prolonged performance-art debate was a "good idea" for the trilogy's conclusion. What'll be left amongst the rubble of philosophical and qualitative battle?

Given that a lot of non-ITers are that because they believe bad writing, if Bioware does do an awesome reveal, then they'll happily enjoy it, I expect. It's the anti-ITers, controllers, and synthesizers that'll be unhappy, but they're a minority. A loud minority, but still a minority.

Wrong. I think ME3 is badly written, but I would absolutely HATE an IT reveal, as in my opinion it's a complete cop-out and not an example of good writing at all. If IT is true it would be terrible writing. If IT would be confirmed, I would definitely leave BioWare and its forums and never buy any of their games ever again.

At the moment I still have hope that BioWare might possibly see the errors of their ways and redeem themselves with their next games, but if IT is confirms, that tiny bit of hope will be completely lost.

[BatmanTurian]

Domanese wrote...

Hello people, especially BT and Arcian, I see we are still talking maybe 9 months later into the games life.

Yup, the division is as strong as ever. Most people are entrenched with a few on the fence.

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hanar (most) ITers in a word: Hubris.

Fixed.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:32 .

[BleedingUranium]

Arcian wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I'm less concerned with the validity of the IT in itself, and more concerned with the fact that it would have to be added through paid DLC. Jade Empire and NWN2 both came with their twist endings in the full package. ME3 didn't. Why? Just to f**k with the fans?

I had to pay for ME2 and 3 to get the full story, how is this (or any DLC) different?

Because each installment has a self-contained story arc with a clear beginning and a clear end. If we are to believe that the IT is real, it means ME3 was sold without its proper ending. Would you have been cool with Mass Effect 1 ending right after going through the Conduit, requiring paid DLC for the sections leading up to the confrontation with Saren? Or Mass Effect 2 ending right after going through the Omega 4 Relay, requiring paid DLC for the Suicide Mission?

If IT is true, then ME3's story arc is Shepard's indoctrinaton, and that arc is resolved with the breath scene and is then complete. The Reaper arc is still open, just like the other two games.

[BleedingUranium]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Wrong. I think ME3 is badly written, but I would absolutely HATE an IT reveal, as in my opinion it's a complete cop-out and not an example of good writing at all. If IT is true it would be terrible writing. If IT would be confirmed, I would definitely leave BioWare and its forums and never buy any of their games ever again.

At the moment I still have hope that BioWare might possibly see the errors of their ways and redeem themselves with their next games, but if IT is confirms, that tiny bit of hope will be completely lost.

I'm absolutely dying to know how IT is bad writing.

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Hanar (most) ITers in a word: Hubris.

Fixed.

Nope. You're the one stating you opinions as facts.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:34 .

[archangel1996]

So, i am curious, who, the first time, went with Control or Synthesis?

[The Heretic of Time]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

You can't argue with someone who thinks there is nothing to this series but bad writing. 

And you can't argue with someone who's apologetic to bad writing and simply justifies any inconsistent or non-sensical part of Mass Effect as "omg indoctrination".

"Mass Effect is an inconistent mess? IMPOSSIBRU! It's probably just more clues for IT." 

It's either that, or you guys simply resort to: "nah that's just your opinion man".

See, dreamgazer? I wasn't wrong in the slightest. It's impossible to debate this.

You got it backwards son. It's rather impossible to debate something like the IT, especially with the mindset that some of the IT supporters have.

[BleedingUranium]

archangel1996 wrote...

So, i am curious, who, the first time, went with Control or Synthesis?

I didn't, but I know quite a number of ITers did.

[umadcommander]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

You can't argue with someone who thinks there is nothing to this series but bad writing. 

And you can't argue with someone who's apologetic to bad writing and simply justifies any inconsistent or non-sensical part of Mass Effect as "omg indoctrination".

"Mass Effect is an inconistent mess? IMPOSSIBRU! It's probably just more clues for IT." 

It's either that, or you guys simply resort to: "nah that's just your opinion man".

See, dreamgazer? I wasn't wrong in the slightest. It's impossible to debate this.

You got it backwards son. It's rather impossible to debate something like the IT, especially with the mindset that some of the IT supporters have.

then why are you here

[CoolioThane]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

One way or another Bioware have to confirm/deny IT so we're just waiting for that, really.

You can probably wait until the end of times, it's not gonna happen. BioWare will probably never confirm nor deny IT. It's best for you and your mental health to just give up now and move on.

Lol no.

[BatmanTurian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

You can't argue with someone who thinks there is nothing to this series but bad writing. 

And you can't argue with someone who's apologetic to bad writing and simply justifies any inconsistent or non-sensical part of Mass Effect as "omg indoctrination".

"Mass Effect is an inconistent mess? IMPOSSIBRU! It's probably just more clues for IT." 

It's either that, or you guys simply resort to: "nah that's just your opinion man".

See, dreamgazer? I wasn't wrong in the slightest. It's impossible to debate this.

You got it backwards son. It's rather impossible to debate something like the IT, especially with the mindset that some of the IT supporters have.

Keep proving my point for me. It helps. Thanks, Hanar.

[jojon2se]

Arcian wrote...
Because each installment has a self-contained story arc with a clear beginning and a clear end. If we are to believe that the IT is real, it means ME3 was sold without its proper ending. Would you have been cool with Mass Effect 1 ending right after going through the Conduit, requiring paid DLC for the sections leading up to the confrontation with Saren? Or Mass Effect 2 ending right after going through the Omega 4 Relay, requiring paid DLC for the Suicide Mission?

We have yet to see whether the last act, if one is in the pipeline, will come at additional cost, or not.

[RavenEyry]

archangel1996 wrote...

So, i am curious, who, the first time, went with Control or Synthesis?

I went for synthesis, but mostly because I wanted to see what the hybrids looked like. I was dissapointed.

[BatmanTurian]

archangel1996 wrote...

So, i am curious, who, the first time, went with Control or Synthesis?

I looked at them in disgust and never looked bad. Destroy only ever made sense because it was exactly what your enemy didn't want. I don't compromise with a deceptive enemy. Destroy could, admittedly, be reverse-psychology in action but I doubt it, since it seemed Starbinger was trying to push you towards Synthesis, which is exactly what Reaper forces, collectors, and Reapers themselves are.

[archangel1996]

BleedingUranium wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

So, i am curious, who, the first time, went with Control or Synthesis?

I didn't, but I know quite a number of ITers did.

I went with Destroy too, i don'0t even rember why, i guess it just seemed right

Modifié par archangel1996, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:38 .

[The Heretic of Time]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Wrong. I think ME3 is badly written, but I would absolutely HATE an IT reveal, as in my opinion it's a complete cop-out and not an example of good writing at all. If IT is true it would be terrible writing. If IT would be confirmed, I would definitely leave BioWare and its forums and never buy any of their games ever again.

At the moment I still have hope that BioWare might possibly see the errors of their ways and redeem themselves with their next games, but if IT is confirms, that tiny bit of hope will be completely lost.

I'm absolutely dying to know how IT is bad writing.

1) An 'All Just A Dream' retcon is ******-poor writing. And don't say "but IT has consequences, therefor It's not 'All Just a Dream'. The 'All Just a Dream' is not limited to dreams without consequences.

2) The IT is inconsistent writing. It does not add up to what we know about indoctrination, especially not if you've read Mass Effect: Retribution

3) Indoctrinating Shepard doesn't make any sense at this point. Going through all the trouble to indoctrinate him just isn't worth it at the end of ME3. If the reapers wanted to indoctirnate him, they should have done so earlier, preferably during ME2.

4) The IT makes 3 of the 4 choices redundant and worthless. In turn, it would ****** off the majority of the fanbase that actually chose and/or support these 3 choices. Not a smart idea at all.

[BatmanTurian]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Wrong. I think ME3 is badly written, but I would absolutely HATE an IT reveal, as in my opinion it's a complete cop-out and not an example of good writing at all. If IT is true it would be terrible writing. If IT would be confirmed, I would definitely leave BioWare and its forums and never buy any of their games ever again.

At the moment I still have hope that BioWare might possibly see the errors of their ways and redeem themselves with their next games, but if IT is confirms, that tiny bit of hope will be completely lost.

I'm absolutely dying to know how IT is bad writing.

1) An 'All Just A Dream' retcon is ******-poor writing. And don't say "but IT has consequences, therefor It's not 'All Just a Dream'. The 'All Just a Dream' is not limited to dreams without consequences.

2) The IT is inconsistent writing. It does not add up to what we know about indoctrination, especially not if you've read Mass Effect: Retribution

3) Indoctrinating Shepard doesn't make any sense at this point. Going through all the trouble to indoctrinate him just isn't worth it at the end of ME3. If the reapers wanted to indoctirnate him, they should have done so earlier, preferably during ME2.

4) The IT makes 3 of the 4 choices redundant and worthless. In turn, it would ****** off the majority of the fanbase that actually chose and/or support these 3 choices. Not a smart idea at all.

And we've responded to and debunked all of these 4 points but you continue to bring them up as if they've never been addressed or explained to you.

[BleedingUranium]

BatmanTurian wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

So, i am curious, who, the first time, went with Control or Synthesis?

I looked at them in disgust and never looked bad. Destroy only ever made sense because it was exactly what your enemy didn't want. I don't compromise with a deceptive enemy. Destroy could, admittedly, be reverse-psychology in action but I doubt it, since it seemed Starbinger was trying to push you towards Synthesis, which is exactly what Reaper forces, collectors, and Reapers themselves are.

Harbinger sums up exactly what the Reapers do in the Retaliation trailer. "They will succumb and ascend, or they will be annihilated." I can't make text colours work, but that's Control, Synthesis, or Refuse. Being destroyed is not something the Reapers consider possible, and that's why choosing to want that is how you beat them.

Side note, the last three or four times I've Googled bits of these quotes to find the proper full verison, I've found it in some part of the IT threads, at the top of the results

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:45 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

archangel1996 wrote...

So, i am curious, who, the first time, went with Control or Synthesis?

I did on the basis of not destroying the future for everyone else.

Basicly as I stood in the decision chamber I ruled out Control immediately, Cerberus had shown with all clarity what happened to those who pusued that path.

Synthesis however was tempting, but then i recalled a conversation with Legion from ME2 where he stated the Geth would achieve their own future without the aid of the Old Machines. In essence I then put that into context with the rets of the galaxy, how I was forcing a future upon every single living thing out there without their consent.

At that moment I turned towards Destroy and I never looked back.

[Andromidius]

BatmanTurian wrote...
And we've responded to and debunked all of these 4 points but you continue to bring them up as if they've never been addressed or explained to you.

Ignore him.  He's blatantly trolling with his complete disregard for what we say - repeatedly claiming IT is a '"it was all a dream" rewrite.

Seriously, we've said it too many times already.  If he can't get it into his head, then he doesn't want to and never will.

[BleedingUranium]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

1) An 'All Just A Dream' retcon is ******-poor writing. And don't say "but IT has consequences, therefor It's not 'All Just a Dream'. The 'All Just a Dream' is not limited to dreams without consequences.

2) The IT is inconsistent writing. It does not add up to what we know about indoctrination, especially not if you've read Mass Effect: Retribution

3) Indoctrinating Shepard doesn't make any sense at this point. Going through all the trouble to indoctrinate him just isn't worth it at the end of ME3. If the reapers wanted to indoctirnate him, they should have done so earlier, preferably during ME2.

4) The IT makes 3 of the 4 choices redundant and worthless. In turn, it would ****** off the majority of the fanbase that actually chose and/or support these 3 choices. Not a smart idea at all.

1) I guess Inception was a terrible movie.

2) Wrong.

3) Misinformed.

4) You don't understand what IT is, do you?

[archangel1996]

Rubber is kind of sad, and i mean really really sad

Modifié par archangel1996, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:48 .