80611 réponses à ce sujet

[FirstBlood XL]

Just to reiterate my logic from 6 months ago ---

I'd love to believe BW has plans for an IT style ending dlc... but I just can't.

IMHO, indoctrination was meant to serve a much larger role in the ending (the memos from the app, TiM 'forcing' Shep to shoot Anderson, etc) but at the last minute decided it was too difficult to implement and went about scurrying to erase all the indoc references... yet failed miserably. Nothing about the ending makes sense from a literal standpoint.

How does the Starbrat appear as he does, without being in Shep's head to begin with? Why all the foreshadowing and indoc-matching dreams/hallucinations with no payoff? Why is James hearing 'humming' for no ****ing reason (story wise)? Why doesn't Harby shoot down the Normandy at the end? Why can TiM force Shep to shoot Anderson, when several ****ing times in the series it's been mentioned that Shep was 'rebuilt' without any kind of control chips? Why are two of the four ending choices the exact same goals of the major villains from the first two games (Indoctrinated villians at that)? Among many other points...

On the other hand, if IT was legit... why no payoff with destroy or refuse endings? Why no big 'you mess up!" ending if you picked Control or Synthesis? If you Refuse, why can't your 'war assets', aka the entire galaxy that you go to impossible odds to (possibly) unit for the first time ever in any cycle, fight back against the Reapers and win? I mean, all the mechanics for stockpiling war assets are in place, yet the never matter? WTF?

It's all so messy.... NOTHING fits. The BW team most probably ran into self doubt regarding indoctrination and how to implement it into the ending (which is a big 'lol fail' considering it's been at the forefront of the entire ****ing trilogy)... and decided to make the ending as simple as possible at the very last minute. Problem was, they were past the point of no return in the development cycle, and couldn't manage to get everything to mesh together.

TL;DR --- It's tough to look at IT as a legit, BW-intended ending in the final product. Though it's obvious that some form of indoctrination attempt was meant to be used (duh, they've admitted as much), and by removing it, the ending became broken in a way that BW didn't have the time and/or talent to fix.

Modifié par FirstBlood XL, 17 décembre 2012 - 05:51 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm back. Have I missed anything of note the last few days?

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I think Bioware invalidated synthesis as an ending the moment they wrote it. Because putting circuitry on random **** was the best way to legitimize synthesis.

I know, right?  I honestly think the message with circuitry on leaves and **** was "this isn't real, this is too stupid to be real, you get that don't you?"

The fact that even literal synthesis shows that there are no more pure organics left should be a red flag.

Its basically doing everything but coming out and telling you that organics lost the war. There arent any left.

[spotlessvoid]

First blood

Or maybe they decided to go meta and indoctrinate the player.

[MassEffecter132]

RavenEyry wrote...

KneeTheCap wrote...

Did they offer any explanation why that message appears after the game? Or did they just brush it off as a bug? And what was the other one that does not fit?

If it's a bug I can't fathom when it was actually supposed to appear because it makes no sense anywhere. And no, I don't recall seeing any comment whatsoever from Bioware.

Wait...what message?

[CoolioThane]

FirstBlood XL wrote...

Just to reiterate my logic from 6 months ago ---

I'd love to believe BW has plans for an IT style ending dlc... but I just can't.

IMHO, indoctrination was meant to serve a much larger role in the ending (the memos from the app, TiM 'forcing' Shep to shoot Anderson, etc) but at the last minute decided it was too difficult to implement and went about scurrying to erase all the indoc references... yet failed miserably. Nothing about the ending makes sense from a literal standpoint.

How does the Starbrat appear as he does, without being in Shep's head to begin with? Why all the foreshadowing and indoc-matching dreams/hallucinations with no payoff? Why is James hearing 'humming' for no ****ing reason (story wise)? Why doesn't Harby shoot down the Normandy at the end? Why can TiM force Shep to shoot Anderson, when several ****ing times in the series it's been mentioned that Shep was 'rebuilt' without any kind of control chips? Why are two of the four ending choices the exact same goals of the major villains from the first two games (Indoctrinated villians at that)? Among many other points...

On the other hand, if IT was legit... why no payoff with destroy or refuse endings? Why no big 'you mess up!" ending if you picked Control or Synthesis? If you Refuse, why can't your 'war assets', aka the entire galaxy that you go to impossible odds to (possibly) unit for the first time ever in any cycle, fight back against the Reapers and win? I mean, all the mechanics for stockpiling war assets are in place, yet the never matter? WTF?

It's all so messy.... NOTHING fits. The BW team most probably ran into self doubt regarding indoctrination and how to implement it into the ending (which is a big 'lol fail' considering it's been at the forefront of the entire ****ing trilogy)... and decided to make the ending as simple as possible at the very last minute. Problem was, they were past the point of no return in the development cycle, and couldn't manage to get everything to mesh together.

TL;DR --- It's tough to look at IT as a legit, BW-intended ending in the final product. Though it's obvious that some form of indoctrination attempt was meant to be used (duh, they've admitted as much), and by removing it, the ending became broken in a way that BW didn't have the time and/or talent to fix.

Yeah, that's where DLC comes in

[FirstBlood XL]

spotlessvoid wrote...

First blood

Or maybe they decided to go meta and indoctrinate the player.

I wish I could have the faith to believe that.  They would have been smart to implement it back in the EC, but failed.

You can look at it in a RGB choice kind of way: 

BLUE: The hopeless romantic -- has faith that BW will show incredible guts and brainpower by proving IT down the road in DLC, and that this whole 9-12 moths of 'speculation' has been their plan all along.

RED: Hardcore pecimist --- BW is so incompetent that they just screwed the ending with flat-out horrible writing and didn't even realize it.

GREEN: Realist -- BW wanted indoctrination to factor much more into the story but tripped themselves up with self-doubt and completely botched the whole thing... and they refuse to admit it.



ADDED:

Don't get me wrong --- I hope the BLUE option comes to pass, I really do.  But I'm more in the green camp on this one (even though I 'destroy' every time in the game.) 

Modifié par FirstBlood XL, 17 décembre 2012 - 06:04 .

[RavenEyry]

MassEffecter132 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

KneeTheCap wrote...

Did they offer any explanation why that message appears after the game? Or did they just brush it off as a bug? And what was the other one that does not fit?

If it's a bug I can't fathom when it was actually supposed to appear because it makes no sense anywhere. And no, I don't recall seeing any comment whatsoever from Bioware.

Wait...what message?

The message app thingumy sends one from the VS about them coming to see you AFTER the game. No one seems to know why.

EDIT:

Modifié par RavenEyry, 17 décembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

FirstBlood XL wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

First blood

Or maybe they decided to go meta and indoctrinate the player.

I wish I could have the faith to believe that.  They would have been smart to implement it back in the EC, but failed.

You can look at it in a RGB choice kind of way: 

BLUE: The hopeless romantic -- has faith that BW will show incredible guts and brainpower by proving IT down the road in DLC, and that this whole 9-12 moths of 'speculation' has been their plan all along.

RED: Hardcore pecimist --- BW is so incompetent that they just screwed the ending with flat-out horrible writing and didn't even realize it.

GREEN: Realist -- BW wanted indoctrination to factor much more into the story but tripped themselves up with self-doubt and completely botched the whole thing... and they refuse to admit it.



ADDED:

Don't get me wrong --- I hope the BLUE option comes to pass, I really do.  But I'm more in the green camp on this one (even though I 'destroy' every time in the game.) 

I'm in the Cyan, or fence, camp. Basically, I'm willing to accept either the green or blue options.

[spotlessvoid]

Why would Bioware blow one of the greatest twists in gaming history by doing a reveal through a craptacular slide show?

Your RGB comparison is terrible. No offense really, just think you totally botched it when green equaled realist

Seriously though. The EC was a joke in content and effort. They probably let the interns make it.

[Rifneno]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why would Bioware blow one of the greatest twists in gaming history by doing a reveal through a craptacular slide show?

Your RGB comparison is terrible. No offense really, just think you totally botched it when green equaled realist

Seriously though. The EC was a joke in content and effort. They probably let the interns make it.

QFT.

[Eryri]

FirstBlood XL wrote...

They would have been smart to implement it back in the EC, but failed.

You can look at it in a RGB choice kind of way: 

BLUE: The hopeless romantic -- has faith that BW will show incredible guts and brainpower by proving IT down the road in DLC, and that this whole 9-12 moths of 'speculation' has been their plan all along.

RED: Hardcore pecimist --- BW is so incompetent that they just screwed the ending with flat-out horrible writing and didn't even realize it.

GREEN: Realist -- BW wanted indoctrination to factor much more into the story but tripped themselves up with self-doubt and completely botched the whole thing... and they refuse to admit it.



ADDED:

Don't get me wrong --- I hope the BLUE option comes to pass, I really do.  But I'm more in the green camp on this one (even though I 'destroy' every time in the game.) 

:lol:He-He. That's a good way of putting it. I'd put myself in the blue camp, but I'd be lying if I said a tinge of sickly green had never come into my mind in my darker moments.

Regarding the smartness of implementing it in the EC - that rather depends on their plans. I really feel that was an emergency measure. They had to get it out as quickly as possible to quell the furore, and as cheaply as possible as it had to be free.

If they were intending an indoctrination reveal in some epic expansion-pack sized piece of dlc, then rushing it out too soon would have been disastrous. There just wouldn't have been time to polish it and iron out the bugs. The EC bought them that time.

Now they can create whatever post end content they like, and charge whatever they like (within reason).

Modifié par Eryri, 17 décembre 2012 - 06:29 .

[RavenEyry]

I'm still amazed at how the slides managed to give less closure than the game.
"Wrex's pregnant wife has a baby"
"Zaeed wears armour on holiday"
"Jacob is a person who exists apparently"

[byne]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Why would Bioware blow one of the greatest twists in gaming history by doing a reveal through a craptacular slide show?

Your RGB comparison is terrible. No offense really, just think you totally botched it when green equaled realist

Seriously though. The EC was a joke in content and effort. They probably let the interns make it.

If they really wanted the slideshow to provide some closure, why not do it like the DA:O slideshow and at least have text that provides information. Imagine seeing the DA:O slides without any text to give them context. It'd be like "Heres a picture of the Circle Tower. What happened to it? Who knows?!"

Sure, like Rif said earlier, they retconned the slides away, but they at least did the slides correctly.

[Xd2delo]

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm still amazed at how the slides managed to give less closure than the game.
"Wrex's pregnant wife has a baby"
"Zaeed wears armour on holiday"
"Jacob is a person who exists apparently"

What blew my mind were all the people who said "Oh this totally fixes all the problems I had with the ending!  yay, thanks BW!  Really?  REALLY?  The Normandy evac scene was just... ugh.  And I love BW, their writing is USUALLY head and shoulders above almost any other studio's... it has to be a ruse, right?

[CoolioThane]

Jack can be happy or maybe sad.
WHAT THE **** HAPPENED TO GARRUS AND THE REST OF OUR SQUAD WHO WE CARE ABOUT THE MOST FOR GOD SAKE?

The EC was ******

[byne]

Xd2delo wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm still amazed at how the slides managed to give less closure than the game.
"Wrex's pregnant wife has a baby"
"Zaeed wears armour on holiday"
"Jacob is a person who exists apparently"

What blew my mind were all the people who said "Oh this totally fixes all the problems I had with the ending!  yay, thanks BW!  Really?  REALLY?  The Normandy evac scene was just... ugh.  And I love BW, their writing is USUALLY head and shoulders above almost any other studio's... it has to be a ruse, right?

If the Normandy evac scene is meant to be really happening... I just dont know. "Its like, lets replace magically teleporting squadmates with something even more ridiculous!"

Before the EC, I was kind of leaning towards the hallucination starting at the transport crash. The EC pushed me completely over to believing that.

Plus, happening at the transport crash means Anderson is no longer getting his battle plans from Sarge.

Modifié par byne, 17 décembre 2012 - 06:37 .

[RavenEyry]

Xd2delo wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm still amazed at how the slides managed to give less closure than the game.
"Wrex's pregnant wife has a baby"
"Zaeed wears armour on holiday"
"Jacob is a person who exists apparently"

What blew my mind were all the people who said "Oh this totally fixes all the problems I had with the ending!  yay, thanks BW!  Really?  REALLY?  The Normandy evac scene was just... ugh.  And I love BW, their writing is USUALLY head and shoulders above almost any other studio's... it has to be a ruse, right?

Any company that promises clarity and closure but makes everything more confusing and gives no more closure is either hilariously incompetent or trolling.

[dirtdiver32318]

Trolling defiantly trolling

[RavenEyry]

byne wrote...

Before the EC, I was kind of leaning towards the hallucination starting at the transport crash. The EC pushed me completely over to believing that.

I'm with the crash aswell because it's never explained (whatever caused the crash apparently isn't there anymore when they get out, bad driving maybe?) and causes sudden unconsciousness.

[Eryri]

Xd2delo wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm still amazed at how the slides managed to give less closure than the game.
"Wrex's pregnant wife has a baby"
"Zaeed wears armour on holiday"
"Jacob is a person who exists apparently"

What blew my mind were all the people who said "Oh this totally fixes all the problems I had with the ending!  yay, thanks BW!  Really?  REALLY?  The Normandy evac scene was just... ugh.  And I love BW, their writing is USUALLY head and shoulders above almost any other studio's... it has to be a ruse, right?

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the EC is striken from canon in future. You don't need it now to get the extended Bratalyst conversation, if you have Leviathan installed. And if there is an IT reveal, then the meagre amount of "closure" we get from the EC will be superfluous.

I think they said the EC will only bef ree to download for a year or two? I suspect they will quietly delete it from the servers, due to the embarrasment that is the Normandy pick up scene, and never speak of it again.

[demersel]

Indeed. What happed to Tali? Or Liara? The two most popular characters?

[Xd2delo]

Eryri wrote...



I actually wouldn't be surprised if the EC is striken from canon in future. You don't need it now to get the extended Bratalyst conversation, if you have Leviathan installed. And if there is an IT reveal, then the meagre amount of "closure" we get from the EC will be superfluous.

I think they said the EC will only bef ree to download for a year or two? I suspect they will quietly delete it from the servers, due to the embarrasment that is the Normandy pick up scene, and never speak of it again.

Definitely on the only downloadable for a year or two.... which is odd when you think about it, no?  I mean, why get rid of it?  You can still get the paid DLC for ME1, and ME2.  And presumably the free MP DLC for ME3 will be available for more than a year or two as well, no?  And the paid SP DLC for ME3 too?  So why is the EC going to go away?  

(If it's just shame over bad writing, I understand.  Because SHAME.)

Hoping it's because it'll be superfluous. 

[MassEffecter132]

RavenEyry wrote...

MassEffecter132 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

KneeTheCap wrote...

Did they offer any explanation why that message appears after the game? Or did they just brush it off as a bug? And what was the other one that does not fit?

If it's a bug I can't fathom when it was actually supposed to appear because it makes no sense anywhere. And no, I don't recall seeing any comment whatsoever from Bioware.

Wait...what message?

The message app thingumy sends one from the VS about them coming to see you AFTER the game. No one seems to know why.

EDIT:

WTF! Do you only get that if you destory high EMS?

[spotlessvoid]

The EC is hilarious if you think it's Bioware grudgingly pacifying fans.

Things like Javik's pouty face in synthesis, or Shepard still in rubble.... it's even more laughably moronic than the original ending.