80611 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

RavenEyry wrote...

byne wrote...

Before the EC, I was kind of leaning towards the hallucination starting at the transport crash. The EC pushed me completely over to believing that.

I'm with the crash aswell because it's never explained (whatever caused the crash apparently isn't there anymore when they get out, bad driving maybe?) and causes sudden unconsciousness.

I think there's a lot to like about that starting point

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I actual quite liked the EC. While left open-ended in the "where the future lies" slideshow, I always thought they did that on purpose for the players to use their imagination on how they wanted their MEU to end (at least until ME4).
*activate Ultimate Shield*
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...327789&pid=15.1

[MaximizedAction]

Technically, they wouldn't have to retcon the slides and the other EC stuff, because it's not clear whether they're canon or not. And without the codex or Bioware explaining it somewhere it remains that way.

[Andromidius]

FirstBlood XL wrote...

TL;DR --- It's tough to look at IT as a legit, BW-intended ending in the final product. Though it's obvious that some form of indoctrination attempt was meant to be used (duh, they've admitted as much), and by removing it, the ending became broken in a way that BW didn't have the time and/or talent to fix.

Couldn't disagree more.  But thanks for being thoughtful, we apprieciate these sorts of posts.

The main reason I disagree is because of the attention to detail throughout the whole game, the subtle hints that reality is being teased at, that things aren't quite right, people are acting strangely, patterns keep appearing in each section of the story...  And then the total disconnect that is the ending, which makes no sense in context.

No-one could drop the ball like that and be arrogantly proud of it.  Let alone an entire team. 

It was intentional to make people think "Hey, what the hell was that?" 
And I think it was also intentional to make some people think "Hey, Synthesis must be best because it has the (second) highest requirement and this new character says its great!" 
And I also think it was intentional to make people think "Hey, that was smart.  None of that is real, and its a hallucination."

[dorktainian]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I'VE GOT IT! I Think I remember who I was confusing Dorktanian with; I don't have a clue why, but I think it was Fingertip.

Isnt he the former IT zealot turned literalist troll? He sucks hard.

That would be the one yes.

No, don't ask me how I got "Dorktanian" out of "Fingertip".

i've always been dork. got the name thinking about cartoons back in the day and one in particular popped into my head.  dogtainian and the three muskahounds.  now obviously dogtainain aint that relevant, but i thought dorktainian might be ok.. so there you go.  just to clarify.

keep up the good work folks.

[Xd2delo]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I actual quite liked the EC. While left open-ended in the "where the future lies" slideshow, I always thought they did that on purpose for the players to use their imagination on how they wanted their MEU to end (at least until ME4).
*activate Ultimate Shield*

Yeah, I don't think that the open-endedness was necessarily what folks had a problem with.  More sort of the failure to wrap up plot threads in an entirely satisfactory manner, and, because I apparently can't stop myself from bringing it up again, the complete fail that was the Normandy Evac scene.  And thousand other little things.  If you liked it, I'm happy for you, I genuinely am.  But I don't understand and cannot concur, unfortunately.  I was more frustrated by the EC than the original ending.  The extended Catalyst dialogue was inconclusive on major points (to whit, such basic questions as "if conflict between synthetics and organics really is inevitable, why not just use your super-duper army of killer robots to, y'know stop synthetics from eradicating organics, esp. since, yknow, THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT THE CONTROL ENDING COMES DOWN TO").  And the slide shows, after all that build up, just completely blew my exasperation gasket.  No more playable content, not even a cut scene, to flesh out the complete non sequitur that was the ending, no, instead, we get powerpoint to the rescue. 

And again, I should mention as a caveat, that BW's IPs are pretty much my favorite; I think they are probably the most creative guys out there in terms of storytelling in games.  Which just makes this all the more vexing.

Modifié par Xd2delo, 17 décembre 2012 - 07:05 .

[zigamortis]

RavenEyry wrote...


EDIT:

Does that message still appear every playthrough after the end?

[RavenEyry]

Andromidius wrote...

And I think it was also intentional to make some people think "Hey, Synthesis must be best because it has the (second) highest requirement and this new character says its great!" 

Choice based games have conditioned us to think taking a third option is always best.

[Andromidius]

RavenEyry wrote...

byne wrote...

Before the EC, I was kind of leaning towards the hallucination starting at the transport crash. The EC pushed me completely over to believing that.

I'm with the crash aswell because it's never explained (whatever caused the crash apparently isn't there anymore when they get out, bad driving maybe?) and causes sudden unconsciousness.

Ditto.  There's a similar crash on Tunchunka, which is explained instantly as "the road was blown up by the Reapers."  And then there was the 'crash' in ME1 when the Mako goes through the Prothean Relay.

Not explaining the crash = something weird is going on.  There was nothing stopping them getting to the Conduit at that time, the Destroyer was taken out and Harbinger hadn't arrived yet.  So unless Harbinger can snipe vehicles while making an orbital descent without killing anyone...

[RavenEyry]

zigamortis wrote...

Does that message still appear every playthrough after the end?

Not the foggiest. I've not seen anyone discuss datapad since like a week after release.

[Andromidius]

Eryri wrote...

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the EC is striken from canon in future. You don't need it now to get the extended Bratalyst conversation, if you have Leviathan installed. And if there is an IT reveal, then the meagre amount of "closure" we get from the EC will be superfluous.

I think they said the EC will only bef ree to download for a year or two? I suspect they will quietly delete it from the servers, due to the embarrasment that is the Normandy pick up scene, and never speak of it again.

Actually, that's a damn good point.  Why is the EC on a limited download timer?  No other DLC is treated that way, even the free stuff or the critically panned stuff.  The only time DLC becomes unavailable is if the company goes bust and the website goes down!

[Xd2delo]

Andromidius wrote...

Eryri wrote...

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the EC is striken from canon in future. You don't need it now to get the extended Bratalyst conversation, if you have Leviathan installed. And if there is an IT reveal, then the meagre amount of "closure" we get from the EC will be superfluous.

I think they said the EC will only bef ree to download for a year or two? I suspect they will quietly delete it from the servers, due to the embarrasment that is the Normandy pick up scene, and never speak of it again.

Actually, that's a damn good point.  Why is the EC on a limited download timer?  No other DLC is treated that way, even the free stuff or the critically panned stuff.  The only time DLC becomes unavailable is if the company goes bust and the website goes down!

Second the motion.

[zigamortis]

RavenEyry wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

Does that message still appear every playthrough after the end?

Not the foggiest. I've not seen anyone discuss datapad since like a week after release.

Was about to say if they're still sending that message after the end than that's odd as hell unless indoctrination is in fact true.

[masster blaster]

Harbinger: Commander Shepard welcome back we missed you.

Shepard: It ends tonight.

Harbinger: I know it does I have seen it.

Okay so I have been thinking what if we will play as Anderson? I mean if Bioware says no Shepard in ME4, but what if we play Anderson from his point of view. Yes I know gender is only male, but man would it be awsome.

Anderson: The Reapers have arrived and now the battle for Earth begains. Every man woman and child must do their part in the war against the Reapers, or die trying. The Earth is ours, and if they want it, then they are going to have to go through us to take our Earth.

[Xd2delo]

zigamortis wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

Does that message still appear every playthrough after the end?

Not the foggiest. I've not seen anyone discuss datapad since like a week after release.

Was about to say if they're still sending that message after the end than that's odd as hell unless indoctrination is in fact true.

Not sure when the message gets sent (i.e. under what conditions), but the literalist argument would be, under EC Destroy high EMS, it's strongly implied that Shepard survives, and the Normandy is coming back for him.  So under that set of conditions, it's quite possible that the VS is visiting him after that happens.  But I agree, highly irregular.   But then,it's just as odd that Shepard should be in a hospital after an indoctrination attempt.  I mean, by that time, the battle of Earth is either won or lost.  So I suspect that it's of no consequence either way.

[demersel]

There is actually a better quastion. Why is Normandy's SR2 reactor core has holes into outer space in ME3? I checked - in ME2 the core room HAD the elements that are missing in ME3 - so whe building a level you would have to actually remove them, to leave the level incomplete, and it wasn't fixed by the patches or DLCs.

[CoolioThane]

Xd2delo wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

Does that message still appear every playthrough after the end?

Not the foggiest. I've not seen anyone discuss datapad since like a week after release.

Was about to say if they're still sending that message after the end than that's odd as hell unless indoctrination is in fact true.

Not sure when the message gets sent (i.e. under what conditions), but the literalist argument would be, under EC Destroy high EMS, it's strongly implied that Shepard survives, and the Normandy is coming back for him.  So under that set of conditions, it's quite possible that the VS is visiting him after that happens.  But I agree, highly irregular.   But then,it's just as odd that Shepard should be in a hospital after an indoctrination attempt.  I mean, by that time, the battle of Earth is either won or lost.  So I suspect that it's of no consequence either way.

But as the explosion in Destroy would kill Shepard and the breath scene takes place on Earth...it basically suggests there was no destroy explosion and Shepard is still on Earth

[masster blaster]

Okay one last thing.

What if the story of Shepard was a lie. What if literal thinking here, that the stargazar has miss informatiom, and the Reapers are still out there. Remember nobody in each cycle knew about the Reapers, well as myths, but what if.

[dorktainian]

demersel wrote...

There is actually a better quastion. Why is Normandy's SR2 reactor core has holes into outer space in ME3? I checked - in ME2 the core room HAD the elements that are missing in ME3 - so whe building a level you would have to actually remove them, to leave the level incomplete, and it wasn't fixed by the patches or DLCs.

  

[RavenEyry]

Either a window or an honest error in map design.

[BansheeOwnage]

Hi!

[Xd2delo]

CoolioThane wrote...

Xd2delo wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

Does that message still appear every playthrough after the end?

Not the foggiest. I've not seen anyone discuss datapad since like a week after release.

Was about to say if they're still sending that message after the end than that's odd as hell unless indoctrination is in fact true.

Not sure when the message gets sent (i.e. under what conditions), but the literalist argument would be, under EC Destroy high EMS, it's strongly implied that Shepard survives, and the Normandy is coming back for him.  So under that set of conditions, it's quite possible that the VS is visiting him after that happens.  But I agree, highly irregular.   But then,it's just as odd that Shepard should be in a hospital after an indoctrination attempt.  I mean, by that time, the battle of Earth is either won or lost.  So I suspect that it's of no consequence either way.

But as the explosion in Destroy would kill Shepard and the breath scene takes place on Earth...it basically suggests there was no destroy explosion and Shepard is still on Earth

How Shep survives the explosion is not one I can explain (nor can I imagine how it reasonably could be), but it's a separate issue I think.      But the message itself remains of no consequence I think. 

Either the literalist argument is correct, and it occurs after Shepard's retrieval from whever he was, OR IT is correct and the Anti-reaper forces are (1) holding out for a ridiculously long period of time, as presumably from retrieval forward Shep has been in a coma-like state, and I'm assuming for more than just a little while or else why is the VS sending this, or (2) you're all in full retreat and Shep is on a medical frigate or some such. 

The balance of the probabilities, to my mind, leans towards the first explanation, at least for puposes of the message.

[demersel]

RavenEyry wrote...

Either a window or an honest error in map design.

That same area was covered by the exact plates that are missing here, and it can't be space there since it used to have windows into Mordin's lab, and jacob's Armory. 

Same thing as with holes into space at cronos - they can't be actually holes into space since they open up to the side from where we came from - there is supposed to be a lot of station that way. 

[GethPrimeMKII]

RavenEyry wrote...

Either a window or an honest error in map design.

Those aren't holes into space. Theyre windows from the upper floor crew bed rooms.

[CoolioThane]

Fair play delo!

I honestly think the biggest physical evidence of IT is Shepard breathing on Earth. IT is the only explanation!