80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Dam0299]

Hrothdane wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Bioware just had a power outage thanks to being hit by lightning.

Thor wants Bioware to stop acting like his brother and get its **** together.

Thor the god of thunder demands they bring out more IT related stuff .

[byne]

Hrothdane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


Do you consider me a low-level troll or a high-level troll?


I think I'm at least a lvl. 58 troll.

That hasn't been high-level since vanilla, and especially not since the cap is going up to 90. Level 58 trolls still have to slog through Outland and Hellfire Peninsula.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a level 67 troll. Step it up.

[TSA_383]

Some people have messed up logic:

http://social.biowar...ndex/13557262/1

Catalyst = Reaper AI
Catalyst trying to pressure you into synthesis.

Therefore

SHEPARD CAN'T BE INDOCTRINATED IT'S BAD WRITING.

Not...enough...facepalm.

[Hrothdane]

smokingotter1 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

IT is a valid possibility for the game.

In my opinion it is true.

This might inspire you from "The Empire Strikes Back" wiki:

"During production, great secrecy surrounded the fact that Darth Vader
was Luke's father. Like the rest of the crew, Prowse—who spoke all of
Vader's lines during filming—was given a false page that contained
dialogue with the revelatory line being "Obi-Wan killed your father."[13][20][21]
Hamill did not learn of the plot point until just before the scene was
filmed, astounding the actor; Kershner advised him to ignore Prowse's
dialogue and "use your own rhythm"."

I've been saying it again and again I do not believe most of the BW are in on the ending. Mac and Casey wrote the ending alone for a reason, there is a strong possibility that Priestly, Merizan, hell even Gamble are in the dark. There is absolutely no reason for even them to know the reveal. As long as Mac and Casey ensure the thematic elements are there they can trust that fans will start putting 2 and 2 together.

Just because you're an employee at Bioware and working on the ME3 project does not guarentee that you will see the forrest through the trees.

IT is a valid possibility? More like IT is the ending, I otter know.

Excellent point! Large cooperative productions like films and television shows have used such techniques in the past because of the greatly increased chance of leaks with so many production staff and crew. Fox did something similar with the Who Killed Mr. Burns? two parter on The Simpsons.

[The Heretic of Time]

Hrothdane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
You would have me deign to that level? Trolls like that would darwin themselves out of the thread without any help from anyone if people would stop bringing them kindling and lighter fluid. 

It's not your average one-time "mumbo-jumbo" troll. He's recurring.

They need fuel to keep trolling, and people are providing it. Did you ever see what happened on the rare occassions when SubAstris's infamous "I have a question" posts were ignored? He went away. No troll is going to allow themselves to be counter-trolled by talking to themselves for pages on end. 

But arguing with trolls is so much fun. :innocent: If its a low level troll attacking, I consider it trolling a troll. High level trolls are a bit more frustrating however. Probably best just to hope that they leave to go back to their caves.

Do you consider me a low-level troll or a high-level troll?


I think I'm at least a lvl. 58 troll.

That hasn't been high-level since vanilla, and especially not since the cap is going up to 90. Level 58 trolls still have to slog through Outland and Hellfire Peninsula.

Damn! I guess I'll have to get myself in shape again!

Anyone in for some Molten Core raiding?

[Hrothdane]

byne wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


Do you consider me a low-level troll or a high-level troll?


I think I'm at least a lvl. 58 troll.

That hasn't been high-level since vanilla, and especially not since the cap is going up to 90. Level 58 trolls still have to slog through Outland and Hellfire Peninsula.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a level 67 troll. Step it up.

Heck, even I have an 85 troll, and I suck at trolling.

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

Some people have messed up logic:

http://social.biowar...ndex/13557262/1

Catalyst = Reaper AI
Catalyst trying to pressure you into synthesis.

Therefore

SHEPARD CAN'T BE INDOCTRINATED IT'S BAD WRITING.

Not...enough...facepalm.

I must say, TSA, your new avatar does suit you. Although, I found that you brought great honor and respectability to the Chicken avatar community, similar to how people felt about my representation of the Batarian avatar. Now the thread is lacking in respectable chickens. Sad panda. 

[byne]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

That hasn't been high-level since vanilla, and especially not since the cap is going up to 90. Level 58 trolls still have to slog through Outland and Hellfire Peninsula.

Damn! I guess I'll have to get myself in shape again!

Anyone in for some Molten Core raiding?

That reminds me that I need to solo Molten Core again.

Ragnaros wil drop his eye one of these days, and then I'll have Sulfuras AND Thunderfury!

...what were we talking about?

[MegumiAzusa]

Hrothdane wrote...

byne wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


Do you consider me a low-level troll or a high-level troll?


I think I'm at least a lvl. 58 troll.

That hasn't been high-level since vanilla, and especially not since the cap is going up to 90. Level 58 trolls still have to slog through Outland and Hellfire Peninsula.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a level 67 troll. Step it up.

Heck, even I have an 85 troll, and I suck at trolling.

So each of you is trolling like a baws?

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 07 août 2012 - 11:10 .

[TJBartlemus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Do you consider me a low-level troll or a high-level troll?


I think I'm at least a lvl. 58 troll.

What you're a troll? My BS and troll radar weren't telling me there was a troll in the vicinity. Wow. So low in level it doesn't even process on the troll scale. 

Seriously though, I really don't care. You don't frustrate me or have even got my attention. Now don't even take it as a challenge cause if someone doesn't in the first place, there is no way they will ever. Sorry. 

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

That hasn't been high-level since vanilla, and especially not since the cap is going up to 90. Level 58 trolls still have to slog through Outland and Hellfire Peninsula.

Damn! I guess I'll have to get myself in shape again!

Anyone in for some Molten Core raiding?

That reminds me that I need to solo Molten Core again.

Ragnaros wil drop his eye one of these days, and then I'll have Sulfuras AND Thunderfury!

...what were we talking about?

Same question.

[The Heretic of Time]

byne wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


Do you consider me a low-level troll or a high-level troll?


I think I'm at least a lvl. 58 troll.

That hasn't been high-level since vanilla, and especially not since the cap is going up to 90. Level 58 trolls still have to slog through Outland and Hellfire Peninsula.

Yeah, I mean, I'm a level 67 troll. Step it up.

This troll hasn't been active since vanila WoW. He did have a blood elf buddy who know all about the Burning Crusade. He was a lvl 70 blood elf.

The troll didn't feel much for raiding, he decided that he rather stalks the BSN under the nickname Heretic_Hanar.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Someone refresh me quick. Does a Shepard that picks control become a random AI that controls the reapers? Or does it become Harbinger?

Shepard becomes the new Catalyst when he picks control. He's not a reaper himself.

Allow me to ask this from a literal perspective:

What's the point in offering Shepard the keys to his own fleet of monster-starships? The catalyst obviously seems convinced that the cycles are the correct path. So why turn over controls to someone who will immediately end the cycles for good? 

If he's just handing over control so casually, it must have been something he could have done on his own, right? I mean, we aren't seriously going to buy the "the crucible changed me and created new possibilities" line, when the crucible is just a giant battery, are we?

So if stopping the cycles was an acceptable solution, because its obvious to the catalyst and everyone that this is what Shepard will do, why then couldnt the Catalyst do that himself? Why does it have to be Shepard that becomes the new Catalyst? What's so special about Shepard? 

[paxxton]

What's up with everybody admitting they are trolls?

[The Heretic of Time]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Do you consider me a low-level troll or a high-level troll?


I think I'm at least a lvl. 58 troll.

What you're a troll? My BS and troll radar weren't telling me there was a troll in the vicinity. Wow. So low in level it doesn't even process on the troll scale. 

Seriously though, I really don't care. You don't frustrate me or have even got my attention. Now don't even take it as a challenge cause if someone doesn't in the first place, there is no way they will ever. Sorry. 

Usually when I troll this place you're not online, or so it seems. I'm also not really the rude kind of troll, more the annoying and presistent kind of troll. 

[The Heretic of Time]

paxxton wrote...

What's up with everybody admitting they are trolls?

My mommy has told me to come to terms with who and what I am. She said I shouldn't be ashamed for myself. So I follow up on her advice.

Yes, I'm a troll, and I'm proud of it damnit! 

[GethPrimeMKII]

paxxton wrote...

What's up with everybody admitting they are trolls?

What's up with the troll not answering my question? I genuinely wanted to know his opinion this time.

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

What's up with everybody admitting they are trolls?

I'm no troll, no trolls in GW, everything is serious business.

[paxxton]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What's up with everybody admitting they are trolls?

My mommy has told me to come to terms with who and what I am. She said I shouldn't be ashamed for myself. So I follow up on her advice.

Yes, I'm a troll, and I'm proud of it damnit! 

Of course. Just thought you and others were talking about some RPG with levels for trolls. Even thought (dunno why) it was SW:TOR.

[The Heretic of Time]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What's up with everybody admitting they are trolls?

What's up with the troll not answering my question? I genuinely wanted to know his opinion this time.

Gomen Nasai!

I shall answer your question, right about... NOW!

[paxxton]

By the BY, do you know that SW:TOR is free to play until level 50?

[paxxton]

All: Yay! Thanks paxx!

Since the thread seems to be dead maybe I should improvise.

Modifié par paxxton, 07 août 2012 - 11:33 .

[Starbuck8]

paxxton wrote...

All: Yay! Thanks paxx!

Since the thread seems to be dead maybe I should improvise.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

[The Heretic of Time]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Allow me to ask this from a literal perspective:

What's the point in offering Shepard the keys to his own fleet of monster-starships? The catalyst obviously seems convinced that the cycles are the correct path. So why turn over controls to someone who will immediately end the cycles for good? 

Because the Catalyst isn't convinced that the cycles are the correct path, not any more after the Crucible is docked.

Why? Hell if I know. There are so many things in ME3 that needs clarification (not just the endings), but we never get that clarification. Yeah, speculation for everyone I suppose. 

If he's just handing over control so casually, it must have been something he could have done on his own, right? I mean, we aren't seriously going to buy the "the crucible changed me and created new possibilities" line, when the crucible is just a giant battery, are we?

Perhaps. This is my take on it though:

Notice that control switch on the left? It's actually part of the Citadel, not the Crucible. That means that whoever build the Citadel must have also build the control switch.

Could it be that the creators of the Catalyst also created the control switch that allows an organic to take over control of the Catalyst? Yes, yes I think it could.

Since the control switch is part of the Citadel, the Catalyst obviously knew about it for like... his entire life. He also knew that he himself is created by organics. He also knew he was created to protect organics, to find a solution.

The Catalyst wants to find a solution, but at the same time it also wants to protect organics. It's tragic really, because the only solution he could come up with to protect organics is to hurt them and turn them into Reapers against their will. It is a perverse solution, but it's the only solution the Catalyst could come up with to preserve organics.

Now, several billion years later, a pissed-off organic finally manages to build the Crucible and deliver it to the Citadel. This pissed-off organic is not happy with the solution.

Is it really that weird that since the Catalyst is created by organics for organics to protect organics, that he maybe realizes his solution is not so great after all once he sees Shepard desperately trying to stop him? Coult it be that after seeing Shepard, the Catalyst only now understands the full extend of the suffering these organics go through because of his "solution"? These organics, that he is supposed to protect? Could it be that the Catalyst therefor decides to put the fate of organics back in the hands of an organic?

This is just my idea of course. I don't think my idea is definetly true, but I think this could be true. I think it is a pretty water-tight explanation for the Catalyst's strange behavior.

So if stopping the cycles was an acceptable solution, because its obvious to the catalyst and everyone that this is what Shepard will do, why then couldnt the Catalyst do that himself? Why does it have to be Shepard that becomes the new Catalyst? What's so special about Shepard? 

Because Shepard is the first organic to unite the galaxy and succesfully dock the Crucible to the Citadel. Why the Catalyst gives Shepard the power to decide the fate of the galaxy is something I just explained in this same comment.

[masster blaster]

I don't own the game buy I have played all 3 mass effect games with my friend, we chip in the money and he payed the higher portion so he keeps the origin ID. Hence why I cant post in your threads.

Been following your posts though.

While there are various theories put forward by many, I think we can all agree the last part is a hallucination of sorts, whether its a waking nightmare or plain "in his mind" indoctrination attempt. When it starts and when it ends it still debatable. It will continue to be so until Bioware shows us the missing episodes in that battle.

But the focus has to be that even the best theories out there have big flaws when it comes to explaining away how reject/refuse gets added in the EC. Yeah, yeah I have read the Shepard "is being indecisive" argument, plus several others. They all still don't explain why he is unable to break free if he has the strong will power to at-least refuse. you'd think he would try to look for a way out anyway. He said it himself 'I will know I died fighting'. Well then where is that fight? We don't see it. If he dies or not is besides the point, we just didn't see the great speech followed through with actions, correct?

It came to my mind, after reading YOUR posts the answer is very simple and will confirm many other's suspicions about the conduit beam device's true purpose.

Remember how Anderson kept saying "Shepard something big is going to happen here at London" The reaper forces have been mobilizing in strength, they are preparing for something, I can feel it." Or something to that effect well before you even start your mission to take back earth. Somewhere midway in the game when Anderson files his personal reports of the war front situations thats when he says those details. And when you finally reach earth, lo and behold you see the conduit being set up by the reapers. That right there is the 'big thing'.

Now why should it be such a big thing for the reapers? What do reapers exist to do? Reapers reap and indoctrinate, hence that huge contraption has to be an indoctrination device.

So with that premise lets move forward.

Control Synthesis and Destroy options in pre-EC

Control and synthesis you/Shepard are essentially standing in-front of the beam and getting indoctrinated plain and simple when your character buys into that nonsense. Destroy, you are actually firing your weapon right into that conduit beam. And you destroy it, letting you break 'free'.

Now anyone's going to ask how can such a big thing be destroyed, how is that possible?. We are ofcourse playing a game and the story is of commander shepard as the savior of the galaxy, he can be afforded some plot convenience to achieve this. There could be some area of the device that's sensitive to gun fire no matter how large a device it is. Exactly why the reaper leader habinger himself comes in to ensure no one got through. And on the way to the conduit run, things were never smooth anyway, hordes of attacks wave after wave to stop you from getting close, plus that destroyer you had to deal with thanix missiles. Some may say thats too cheesy, well think about it what Shepard has achieved is not really practical in real life. Its fiction, its a game. It has to have some impractical cliches to get through, thats what makes the game experience memorable. Nobody plays games to taste realities of daily life, we play games to escape reality.

Now lets think of refuse, at first it really does look like Bioware is giving the fans who complained the proverbial middle finger. But objectively thinking they don't have the balls to do that. Just think for a second, they survive because we buy their games, we have the wallet power no matter how mighty and heighty they may think of themselves. So we must set it in our head this is not a FU from them to us. So coming back to our problem, we why can't Shepard break free?

Exactly! he hasn't done anything to destroy that device right in-front of him that is making him see unreal visions of his surroundings. To end his hallucination he needs to destroy that conduit beam. Starbinger gets pissed and says 'So be it' because Shepard shows his resolve to not choose their preferred options, this means their indoctrination attempt failed totally. Hardly being indecisive. Thats an illogical and unsubstantiated theory. It also doesn't mean Shepard is weak, it just means their final attempts simply failed. And what happens to Shepard after that is immaterial to the reapers.

Now another argument that comes almost always is why will this starbinger entity even propose the 'destroy' option? It pretty obvious. Shepard 'made it all the way' so to speak to this delusional environment, he can might as well start firing and destroying things to try anything desperately. Shepard a while back heard hackket come on the radio saying the crucible isn't firing. Shepard did what he thought was enough, dock the damn contraption and it should do whatever the heck it was supposed to do. That didn't work. The destroy tube also looks very much like the tubes he shot at the collector base. Hiding this option is now pointless because of that. Starbinger in a last ditch attempt tries his luck (but not his best) to down play that option.

Recall how starbinger kept saying how 'There is "little" time but I will try to explain things'? Them reapers sure were in a hurry. Now we can speculate what the reasons maybe but Bioware has to reveal more for that. We don't have enough material to really speculate even to a worthwhile degree what all the hurry was for.

We still don't know what crucible really does anyway. Whether its a threat to the reapers or if its even supposed to be weapon of sorts. What is apparent is that until Shepard got close to the indoctrination beam they were protective of that conduit device, now that he has the chance to 'destroy' it, the repears don't have a priority on saving that device anymore. Another reason why the focus was more on betting Shepard to take control or synth instead of destroy, but if he didn't fall for it and took destroy, then that's fine too because by that point reapers had other plans in mind. The loss of the conduit was no more that big a concern to them. Also explains why they just leave Shepard to rot in refuse. Priorities have changed by then. We just don't know why. You speculators mid find something in time am pretty sure.

This whole plot also tells us Bioware hasn't shown the rest of the war. What really happened etc. We saw "some" forward looking endings, they can might as well be in shepard's head, or infact be real but what happened between shepard's choices and the depicted endings are not revealed to us by bioware.

Assuming that the whole conduit device is an indoctrination device is the only way refuse can make any sense. Again keep in mind that 'Time was also short'. Whatever starbinger was in a hurry for also affected shepard and the entire galaxy, as we know when shepard fails and the cycle continues, be it in his head or for real.

The rest of the aspects are fully open to debate, cant say who is right at the moment, especially post EC. But without a doubt there was a dream/hallucination sequence of some kind for whatever duration that might have been.

If this was already discussed then you can ignore my suggestions and I apologize for wasting your time, but i think so far no one has really seen Refuse in this fashion considering what the conduit can truly be.

Take care.

This was from windsurfing an IT supporter that wishes us for the best of luck.