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[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

There is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy weakness in falling for your enemy's propaganda.

My Shepard didn't fall for any propaganda. He just became the new god of the galaxy.


"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent one." - Voltraire

I don't know if I like Shepard the Reaper telling everyone to follow his/her rules or else be harvested, or Indoctrinated.

My Shepard-Reaper-God doesn't care if you like him or not. Organics are flawed, a force to be controlled. Our government knows this. That's why we have such a thing as a government and the law. It keeps us organics in line.

Wherher Reaper-God Shepard keeps you in line or the Council, it doesn't make a difference for you. In fact, there are many benefits to a galaxy being kept in line by Reaper-God Shepard as opposed to the Council. For starters, my Reaper-God Shepard isn't a complete incompetent ignorant fool.

This is not your Shepard, but an Ai of the dead Shepard, so it can do what it want's without your Control over Shepard.

This is my Reaper-God Shepard AI, because I created it. It's created through my Shepard's mind. This is a direct copy of my Shepard with the same thoughts and same ideologies of my Shepard. This AI will do exactly what my Shepard would have done himself, as is evident in the epilogue slides.

What about the Leviathan. may I remind you if Shepard can't Control the Leviathan, if this is the real deal at the end, then it's possible it will pretend to obye Shepard and well Shepard could die.

[TJBartlemus]

Home run MF wrote...

byne do you keep in touch with the indoctrination thread on the french forum?
The have a pretty neat OP and make good points.

They have an IT thread in the french forum? Interesting...I would comment in there but I really only know basic french. Not enough to get a lot of my points down well. Maybe I could try using Google translate.... 

[Hrothdane]

byne wrote...

Anyhow, since the WoW talk earlier reminded me I needed to solo Molten Core, I just finished doing that.

Rag didnt drop his eye.

I am a sad panda. One of these days I'll have your eye, Rag!

He did drop an orb of deception though.

I already have like four of them, but its nice to have another, I suppose.

[/endWoWtalk]

I have Sulfuras on my paladin, but I have yet to see even one of the bindings for Thunderfury. Ever. I have two characters almost at exalted with Hydraxian Waterlords, too. My DK is still waiting for the main hand warglaive in BT to drop.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Allow me to ask this from a literal perspective:

What's the point in offering Shepard the keys to his own fleet of monster-starships? The catalyst obviously seems convinced that the cycles are the correct path. So why turn over controls to someone who will immediately end the cycles for good? 

Because the Catalyst isn't convinced that the cycles are the correct path, not any more after the Crucible is docked.

I don't know if that cuts it for an explanation. The Catalyst has commanded the reapers to purge organics for billions of years and a giant battery shoved up his back side forces an epiphany that makes him reconsider everything? 

Why? Hell if I know. There are so many things in ME3 that needs clarification (not just the endings), but we never get that clarification. Yeah, speculation for everyone I suppose. 

If he's just handing over control so casually, it must have been something he could have done on his own, right? I mean, we aren't seriously going to buy the "the crucible changed me and created new possibilities" line, when the crucible is just a giant battery, are we?

Perhaps. This is my take on it though:

Notice that control switch on the left? It's actually part of the Citadel, not the Crucible. That means that whoever build the Citadel must have also build the control switch.

The Reapers built the Citadel. How much sense does it make for the reapers to install the tools of their demise inside their own structure?

Could it be that the creators of the Catalyst also created the control switch that allows an organic to take over control of the Catalyst? Yes, yes I think it could.

Since the control switch is part of the Citadel, the Catalyst obviously knew about it for like... his entire life. He also knew that he himself is created by organics. He also knew he was created to protect organics, to find a solution.

Funny thing about the Catalyst and his solution. The reapers create the problems they are created to fix. If the Catalyst exists to broker peace between synthetics and organics he's certainly doing a ****** poor job at it. The only documented cases of synthetics attacking organics were CAUSED by the reapers. The Catalyst's very existence is based on a faulty logic. Synthetics are just as capable of determining their path as organics are. The geth prove the Catalyst's assertions wrong. 

The Catalyst wants to find a solution, but at the same time it also wants to protect organics. It's tragic really, because the only solution he could come up with to protect organics is to hurt them and turn them into Reapers against their will. It is a perverse solution, but it's the only solution the Catalyst could come up with to preserve organics.

His solution is pretty stupid for a logical trillion year old AI dont you think? It's like a fire fighter wanting to protect you from fire by setting you on fire. Why not command the reapers to attack other synthetics? That seems a whole lot more logical than sending synthetic beings to attack beings he wishes to protect from synthetics. Why have reapers at all? The destroy ending proved the Citadel + easily contructed power source can purge an entire galaxy of synthetics in hours. Why spend centuries manually purging a galaxy with Reapers when the aformentioned tools can do it and not miss a spot?

Now, several billion years later, a pissed-off organic finally manages to build the Crucible and deliver it to the Citadel. This pissed-off organic is not happy with the solution.

[b]Shepard would never have arrived at the decision chamber were it not for the Catalyst transporting him there. Had he remained silent and done nothing, Shepard would not have known about him or the choices. The Catalyst just up and invites Shepard upstairs for a chat and without putting up a fight, gives him three ways to pacify the reapers. Does that make any sense?

Can you imagine how that'd play out in a James Bond movie?  "Bond. You have found my hidden lair that I myself went out of my way to reveal to you. I will now present you with three ways to completely unravel my plans and not put up the slightest resistance despite the fact that you may very well drop dead from blood loss at any minute. You have the option of controlling my diabolical device, destroying it, or we could join forces and do some good I guess."[/b]

Is it really that weird that since the Catalyst is created by organics for organics to protect organics, that he maybe realizes his solution is not so great after all once he sees Shepard desperately trying to stop him? Coult it be that after seeing Shepard, the Catalyst only now understands the full extend of the suffering these organics go through because of his "solution"? These organics, that he is supposed to protect? Could it be that the Catalyst therefor decides to put the fate of organics back in the hands of an organic?

It took him trillions of years to realize he was operating with rediculous circular logic? His solution is not that of a logical advanced AI. Its utterly retarded. His actions go against the very meaning of the word protect. 

This is just my idea of course. I don't think my idea is definetly true, but I think this could be true. I think it is a pretty water-tight explanation for the Catalyst's strange behavior.

So if stopping the cycles was an acceptable solution, because its obvious to the catalyst and everyone that this is what Shepard will do, why then couldnt the Catalyst do that himself? Why does it have to be Shepard that becomes the new Catalyst? What's so special about Shepard? 

Because Shepard is the first organic to unite the galaxy and succesfully dock the Crucible to the Citadel. Why the Catalyst gives Shepard the power to decide the fate of the galaxy is something I just explained in this same comment.
It wouldnt matter if Shepard was the first. It still doesnt make any sense for the reapers to surrender to the organics because a half dead soldier managed to defy the odds and make it to the citadel. Allowing a cycle that has existed for billions of years to be undone because a half dead trooper managed to break into the head honcho's office is just insane. 

Just some counter responses.

Modifié par GethPrimeMKII, 08 août 2012 - 12:33 .

[byne]

Hrothdane wrote...



I have Sulfuras on my paladin, but I have yet to see even one of the bindings for Thunderfury. Ever. I have two characters almost at exalted with Hydraxian Waterlords, too. My DK is still waiting for the main hand warglaive in BT to drop.

I have Thundefury on my warrior, as well as both bindings on my main (pally) and my hunter.

Once when I was soloing MC on my hunter, both bindings dropped, but I already had them, so I had to leave them there.

I think the game is taunting me at this point.

My pally is exalted with the waterlords, since I actually raided MC regularly in vanilla.



That hat kinda looks like a prothean, and the screenshot is taken in a place called the Crucible.

That makes this post technically on topic.

Modifié par byne, 08 août 2012 - 12:34 .

[masster blaster]

Hrothdane wrote...

While this probably came up before, has anyone noticed the parallel between the ending choice and the pills in The Matrix? The blue pill lets Neo delude himself ("believe whatever you want to believe") and stops him from looking deeper. The red pill offers deeper truth and reality, but with a great deal of danger ("see how far down the rabbit hole goes"). The "believe whatever you want to believe" line also fits with Bioware's stance of "interpret things whichever way you want."

Also worth mention is that Wikipedia says that Arnold takes a red pill in Total Recall that brings him out of a delusion (along with some other connections that seem dubious or tangentially related to the current issue). Obviously, there is no green choice in either situation, but red's strong association with reality seems worthy of consideration.

Considering we already know via Word of God that the first game was inspired by 80s sci-fi, and ME2 and ME3 have parallels with later periods of sci-fi, the connection might be intentional. The whole "what is real?" issue has become such a standard theme in so many classic and popular sci-fi stories (Blade Runner, Total Recall, The Matrix, Inception, etc...) that I can't help but think the self-professed sci-fi fans at Bioware must have noticed the connection, if not intended it. Why bother color-coding the endings at all unless there was some reason? We already have two strong parallels with The Matrix in the geth storyline, and Starbrat's similarities to The Architect.

Ya i just watched the Matrix  the first one and ya this remined me of ME3's endings, green is just BS.

[masster blaster]

So Heretic Hanar do you think it's possible for the other races in Destroy to rebuild the Mass relays?

[TJBartlemus]

Hrothdane wrote...

While this probably came up before, has anyone noticed the parallel between the ending choice and the pills in The Matrix? The blue pill lets Neo delude himself ("believe whatever you want to believe") and stops him from looking deeper. The red pill offers deeper truth and reality, but with a great deal of danger ("see how far down the rabbit hole goes"). The "believe whatever you want to believe" line also fits with Bioware's stance of "interpret things whichever way you want."

Also worth mention is that Wikipedia says that Arnold takes a red pill in Total Recall that brings him out of a delusion (along with some other connections that seem dubious or tangentially related to the current issue). Obviously, there is no green choice in either situation, but red's strong association with reality seems worthy of consideration.

Considering we already know via Word of God that the first game was inspired by 80s sci-fi, and ME2 and ME3 have parallels with later periods of sci-fi, the connection might be intentional. The whole "what is real?" issue has become such a standard theme in so many classic and popular sci-fi stories (Blade Runner, Total Recall, The Matrix, Inception, etc...) that I can't help but think the self-professed sci-fi fans at Bioware must have noticed the connection, if not intended it. Why bother color-coding the endings at all unless there was some reason? We already have two strong parallels with The Matrix in the geth storyline, and Starbrat's similarities to The Architect.

That's actually pretty interesting. More symbolism and connections to outside media from BioWare...clever....regarding the pills though, I still believe they are just placebos.

[Hrothdane]

byne wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...



I have Sulfuras on my paladin, but I have yet to see even one of the bindings for Thunderfury. Ever. I have two characters almost at exalted with Hydraxian Waterlords, too. My DK is still waiting for the main hand warglaive in BT to drop.

I have Thundefury on my warrior, as well as both bindings on my main (pally) and my hunter.

Once when I was soloing MC on my hunter, both bindings dropped, but I already had them, so I had to leave them there.

I think the game is taunting me at this point.

My pally is exalted with the waterlords, since I actually raided MC regularly in vanilla.

My shaman (source of this name btw) used to raid MC regularly in vanilla as well, but I got so disgusted with drama and being forced to healbot that I quit raiding until WotLK (with the exception of Kara). It took until Cataclysm for me to feel like going back to MC.

[Home run MF]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

byne do you keep in touch with the indoctrination thread on the french forum?
The have a pretty neat OP and make good points.

They have an IT thread in the french forum? Interesting...I would comment in there but I really only know basic french. Not enough to get a lot of my points down well. Maybe I could try using Google translate.... 

They have a ton of pictures explaining every point. 

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

So Heretic Hanar do you think it's possible for the other races in Destroy to rebuild the Mass relays?

Yes, why wouldn't I believe that? It's said/shown clearly in the EC of Destroy that both the Citadel and the mass relays are being rebuild in the Destroy ending. It just takes a lot longer than it takes Reaper-God Shepard to rebuild them with his reaper forces.

[byne]

Hrothdane wrote...

My shaman (source of this name btw) used to raid MC regularly in vanilla as well, but I got so disgusted with drama and being forced to healbot that I quit raiding until WotLK (with the exception of Kara). It took until Cataclysm for me to feel like going back to MC.

My pally is also the source of my name!

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So Heretic Hanar do you think it's possible for the other races in Destroy to rebuild the Mass relays?

Yes, why wouldn't I believe that? It's said/shown clearly in the EC of Destroy that both the Citadel and the mass relays are being rebuild in the Destroy ending. It just takes a lot longer than it takes Reaper-God Shepard to rebuild them with his reaper forces.

Mass relays are built with two long, curved metal "arms" with a set
of revolving rings in between them, containing a massive, blue-glowing element zero core. The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel
is built from, and are protected by a quantum shield that renders them
nearly impervious to damage by locking their structure in place at the
subatomic level. They are even capable of surviving a supernova's wake
without being damaged. They are "cold" objects that don't emit heat or
radiation, unlike starships, making them difficult to find if their
position changes. Some relays, like the Charon Relay, are "gravitationally anchored" to planets; others appear to be out in space and are carefully tracked.


Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of
space-time between each other. This can propel a starship across
enormous distances that would take centuries to traverse, even at FTL
speeds. Before a vessel can travel, the relay must be given the amount
of mass to transit by the ship's pilot before it is moved into the
approach corridor. When a relay is activated, it aligns itself with the
corresponding relay before propelling the ship across space.
There are two kinds of mass relay, primary and secondary. Primary
relays can propel a ship thousands of light years but only link to one
other relay, its "partner". Secondary relays can link to any other relay
over shorter distances, only a few hundred light years. After the Rachni Wars,
space faring species won't open a primary relay without knowing where
it links to, in case they run into another powerful and hostile species
like the rachni. This caused a rift when the turians found human pioneers, ignorant of this Citadel Council prohibition, trying to open any mass relay they could find while exploring the relay network, eventually leading to the First Contact War.
Many mass relays are currently dormant for unknown reasons,
though they can be easily reactivated. A Prothean data cache found on Mars led humans to a mass relay encased in ice and orbiting Pluto, previously thought to be a moon called Charon, which the Charon Relay was eventually named after.
A piece of Prothean artwork depicting a mass relay, the Relay Monument, can be found on the Citadel Presidium.
It has been interpreted as either a symbol of Prothean vanity,
expressing the relays as their means to build a galaxy-wide empire, or
possibly as a symbol of galactic unity, which the relay network also
embodies. Tali'Zorah nar Rayya claims that after their long voyage through the galaxy, the quarians have also come to appreciate the aesthetic value of the mass relays.
An asari matriarch was once quoted to have suggested creating new
Relays, but the potential for current era technology to do so is
unknown.

Now tell me after reading this, is it possible that they can't really fix the separation of the systems, and remember most of the recourse's are depleted, because of the Crucible.
http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Mass_Relay

Outwardly the Alpha Relay appears to be a standard mass relay, differing
little, if at all, from the rest of the mass relays scattered
throughout the galaxy. However, it is unusual in its potential range and
versatility. Alpha usually sends and receives mass at the range of a
normal secondary relay, but if certain controls are adjusted, it becomes
powered by an unprecedented amount of dark energy that could send cargo
to sixteen other relays and even across a great distance to the Citadel. The Batarian Hegemony
has long been aware of Alpha's capabilities, but has covered them up to
avoid retaliation by other races who would view the relay as a direct
threat to their territories.


Doesn't this remind you of the endings, when you see the relays blowing up, but not at Earth, but a nother system.

Modifié par masster blaster, 08 août 2012 - 01:06 .

[TJBartlemus]

Home run MF wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

byne do you keep in touch with the indoctrination thread on the french forum?
The have a pretty neat OP and make good points.

They have an IT thread in the french forum? Interesting...I would comment in there but I really only know basic french. Not enough to get a lot of my points down well. Maybe I could try using Google translate.... 

They have a ton of pictures explaining every point. 

Well I am currently using Google translate for the post. It's rough but it works. Didn't really expect a perfect translation anyway though. So far there is nothing new. If there is I will bring it over here. 

[Home run MF]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

byne do you keep in touch with the indoctrination thread on the french forum?
The have a pretty neat OP and make good points.

They have an IT thread in the french forum? Interesting...I would comment in there but I really only know basic french. Not enough to get a lot of my points down well. Maybe I could try using Google translate.... 

They have a ton of pictures explaining every point. 

Well I am currently using Google translate for the post. It's rough but it works. Didn't really expect a perfect translation anyway though. So far there is nothing new. If there is I will bring it over here. 

Yeah, I'm reading it too.
Have you seen the pic with starbrat with the lol face 

[EpyonX3]

Is there a release date for Leviathan yet?

[masster blaster]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Is there a release date for Leviathan yet?

No Chris said when they are ready, then they will tell us.

[TJBartlemus]

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">Dans la fin ]:[/color]


Synthèse :


Ça ne vous rappelle rien ?

I found this post in the French forum interesting. It reminded me of how each way Shep disintegrated. Seeing the comparison pics now I do believe that BioWare intended that each choice made Shepard look like the person who would have chosen that choice. In Control Shepard starts to look similart to TIM. In Synthesis Shep starts to look like Saren. (notice the mouths and shape/direction cheek bones are similar)

Anyway. I just found that odd/interesting. 

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 08 août 2012 - 12:56 .

[MegumiAzusa]

As I see it the Guardian doesn't have direct control over all the Reapers, maybe a few to guide the others but not over all.
The same thing is to say about direct control by a Reaper over one of its servants. Harbinger is only directly controlling the Collector General and from what we see 1 other Collector at a time which it uses to relay voiced orders to the other Collector forces. This is established in the game and comics.
Therefor I think we should let go from the thought indoctrination is the direct control of a huge amount of drones. It isn't even described as such.
The words used are "corrupting organic minds", "physical and psychological conditioning", "the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions".

Now from these I pick "psychological conditioning" and apply it to the ending.
First we have "TIM" trying to convince us that control is the only solution, it's easy to see what is happening and reject. Then while this happens or afterwards Anderson dies. This is quite heavy psychological stress and opens up an array of ways to attack the so weakened mind. Then the final conditioning occurs: the Guardian tells Shepard that the Reapers aren't evil and just misunderstood. It goes on about how the Reapers are their only hope etc now if we remember back to Arrival how Kenson viewed the Reapers we have something quite similar. She was all about how the Reapers are their salvation, which is also the last thing Harbinger tells Shepard in ME2: "That what you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

Why is he holding a mass relay?

[DJBare]

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar...ndex/13557262/8
Sometimes I wonder if we all played the same game...

I don't think I've ever closed a thread so fast, don't know how I've managed it so far but I've avoided Leviathen spoilers(even in this thread), warning next time please.

[The Heretic of Time]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I don't know if that cuts it for an explanation. The Catalyst has commanded the reapers to purge organics for billions of years and a giant battery shoved up his back side forces an epiphany that makes him reconsider everything? 

The Reapers built the Citadel. How much sense does it make for the reapers to install the tools of their demise inside their own structure?

Not true. The first organic species who created the Catalyst, created the Citadel.

Because the organics created the Catalyst on the Citadel, they probably also created the control switch and the destroy switch.

Funny thing about the Catalyst and his solution. The reapers create the problems they are created to fix. If the Catalyst exists to broker peace between synthetics and organics he's certainly doing a ****** poor job at it. The only documented cases of synthetics attacking organics were CAUSED by the reapers. The Catalyst's very existence is based on a faulty logic. Synthetics are just as capable of determining their path as organics are. The geth prove the Catalyst's assertions wrong. 

The Morning War was not caused by the reapers, so what you say is not true.

Keep in mind that the Catalyst is created by organics who didn't understand synthetics. It explains why the Catalyst is not perfect and why his own views might also be flawed.

Yes, the geth prove the Catalyst wrong, no doubt about that. They also proved him right though, during the Morning War.

His solution is pretty stupid for a logical trillion year old AI dont you think? It's like a fire fighter wanting to protect you from fire by setting you on fire. Why not command the reapers to attack other synthetics? That seems a whole lot more logical than sending synthetic beings to attack beings he wishes to protect from synthetics. Why have reapers at all? The destroy ending proved the Citadel + easily contructed power source can purge an entire galaxy of synthetics in hours. Why spend centuries manually purging a galaxy with Reapers when the aformentioned tools can do it and not miss a spot?

Ask that to Mac Walters. I mean I desperately try to fill all the gabs he left with his ******-poor writing for Mass Effect 3, but some gabs I just can't fill, no matter how many hoops I jump through.

Mass Effect 3 is just badly written, that's my only explanation I have for this. I'm sorry if that dissapoints you.

Shepard would never have arrived at the decision chamber were it not for the Catalyst transporting him there. Had he remained silent and done nothing, Shepard would not have known about him or the choices.
The Catalyst just up and invites Shepard upstairs for a chat and without putting up a fight, gives him three ways to pacify the reapers. Does that make any sense? 

How do you know that? It might have been something else that started the elevator up. Is it ever specifically mentioned in ME3 that it is the Catalyst that starts up the elevator? I don't think so.


I think it's not the Catalyst that started the elevator, but the Citadel itself, which is probably programmed to respond to the Crucible. Who programmed the Citadel to respond to the Crucible? Who knows. Probably the creators of the Citadel, or the original creators of the Crucible.

Perhaps the original creators of the Crucible are the same species as that created the Citadel and the Catalyst?

It took him trillions of years to realize he was operating with rediculous circular logic? His solution is not that of a logical advanced AI. Its utterly retarded. His actions go against the very meaning of the word protect. 

From a pragmatic point of view, it doesn't. The Catalyst indeed does preserve organic life, it doesn't destroy younger species, it even provides a clean slate every 50.000 to give new, younger species a chance to flourish, until their time has come and have to make way for new life.

You know, this happens on our planet all the time. It's called natural selection. Species rise up, flourish, and die out because of nature and natural selection. The Catalyst just took matters into own hands when it comes ot this in order to prevent a technological singularity.

From a pragmatic point of view, this makes perfect sense. From our emotional point of view however, it is horrible and total utter crap. We don't want to die. Our survival instinct goes directly against what the Catalyst has in mind for us (ascension to reaperhood).

[b]It wouldnt matter if Shepard was the first. It still doesnt make any sense for the reapers to surrender to the organics because a half dead soldier managed to defy the odds and make it to the citadel. Allowing a cycle that has existed for billions of years to be undone because a half dead trooper managed to break into the head honcho's office is just insane. 

It is not insane. It simply means the Catalyst "woke up", as in, it finally realized his solution isn't as good as he thought it was and decided to put the faith of the galaxy back into the hands of an organic.

Again, this is just me desperately trying to fix Mac Walter's stupid writing by filling all the plotholes up with my own ideas, just like you guys are desperately trying to fix Mac Walter's ****** poor writing job with your Indoctrination Theory.

[BlazingZephyr]

Masster, you should also bold the bottom of your codex quote that says:

"An asari matriarch was once quoted to have suggested creating new relays, but the potential for current era technology to do so is unknown."

[byne]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Why is he holding a mass relay?

Because sometimes the best way to defeat an enemy is by sending them hurtling thousands of lightyears through space!

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I don't know if that cuts it for an explanation. The Catalyst has commanded the reapers to purge organics for billions of years and a giant battery shoved up his back side forces an epiphany that makes him reconsider everything? 

The Reapers built the Citadel. How much sense does it make for the reapers to install the tools of their demise inside their own structure?

Not true. The first organic species who created the Catalyst, created the Citadel.

Because the organics created the Catalyst on the Citadel, they probably also created the control switch and the destroy switch.

Funny thing about the Catalyst and his solution. The reapers create the problems they are created to fix. If the Catalyst exists to broker peace between synthetics and organics he's certainly doing a ****** poor job at it. The only documented cases of synthetics attacking organics were CAUSED by the reapers. The Catalyst's very existence is based on a faulty logic. Synthetics are just as capable of determining their path as organics are. The geth prove the Catalyst's assertions wrong. 

The Morning War was not caused by the reapers, so what you say is not true.

Keep in mind that the Catalyst is created by organics who didn't understand synthetics. It explains why the Catalyst is not perfect and why his own views might also be flawed.

Yes, the geth prove the Catalyst wrong, no doubt about that. They also proved him right though, during the Morning War.

His solution is pretty stupid for a logical trillion year old AI dont you think? It's like a fire fighter wanting to protect you from fire by setting you on fire. Why not command the reapers to attack other synthetics? That seems a whole lot more logical than sending synthetic beings to attack beings he wishes to protect from synthetics. Why have reapers at all? The destroy ending proved the Citadel + easily contructed power source can purge an entire galaxy of synthetics in hours. Why spend centuries manually purging a galaxy with Reapers when the aformentioned tools can do it and not miss a spot?

Ask that to Mac Walters. I mean I desperately try to fill all the gabs he left with his ******-poor writing for Mass Effect 3, but some gabs I just can't fill, no matter how many hoops I jump through.

Mass Effect 3 is just badly written, that's my only explanation I have for this. I'm sorry if that dissapoints you.

Shepard would never have arrived at the decision chamber were it not for the Catalyst transporting him there. Had he remained silent and done nothing, Shepard would not have known about him or the choices.
The Catalyst just up and invites Shepard upstairs for a chat and without putting up a fight, gives him three ways to pacify the reapers. Does that make any sense? 

How do you know that? It might have been something else that started the elevator up. Is it ever specifically mentioned in ME3 that it is the Catalyst that starts up the elevator? I don't think so.


I think it's not the Catalyst that started the elevator, but the Citadel itself, which is probably programmed to respond to the Crucible. Who programmed the Citadel to respond to the Crucible? Who knows. Probably the creators of the Citadel, or the original creators of the Crucible.

Perhaps the original creators of the Crucible are the same species as that created the Citadel and the Catalyst?

It took him trillions of years to realize he was operating with rediculous circular logic? His solution is not that of a logical advanced AI. Its utterly retarded. His actions go against the very meaning of the word protect. 

From a pragmatic point of view, it doesn't. The Catalyst indeed does preserve organic life, it doesn't destroy younger species, it even provides a clean slate every 50.000 to give new, younger species a chance to flourish, until their time has come and have to make way for new life.

You know, this happens on our planet all the time. It's called natural selection. Species rise up, flourish, and die out because of nature and natural selection. The Catalyst just took matters into own hands when it comes ot this in order to prevent a technological singularity.

From a pragmatic point of view, this makes perfect sense. From our emotional point of view however, it is horrible and total utter crap. We don't want to die. Our survival instinct goes directly against what the Catalyst has in mind for us (ascension to reaperhood).

[b]It wouldnt matter if Shepard was the first. It still doesnt make any sense for the reapers to surrender to the organics because a half dead soldier managed to defy the odds and make it to the citadel. Allowing a cycle that has existed for billions of years to be undone because a half dead trooper managed to break into the head honcho's office is just insane. 

It is not insane. It simply means the Catalyst "woke up", as in, it finally realized his solution isn't as good as he thought it was and decided to put the faith of the galaxy back into the hands of an organic.

Again, this is just me desperately trying to fix Mac Walter's stupid writing by filling all the plotholes up with my own ideas, just like you guys are desperately trying to fix Mac Walter's ****** poor writing job with your Indoctrination Theory.

You know I can't believe Bioware has to put up with you, and the people that call me bad writing.

No wonder they don"t want us to go off topic because they are hoping that we can prove you all wrong about their so called bad writing.

So they will add hints to IT in future dlc, and once the pieces off the puzzle are all together the truth will be revealed.