80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Masster, you should also bold the bottom of your codex quote that says:

"An asari matriarch was once quoted to have suggested creating new relays, but the potential for current era technology to do so is unknown."

Done.

[DextroDNA]

I still believe that all future DLCs will reveal little bits of info about the Reapers, the Citadel/Catalyst, the Crucible and... Indoctrination.

All the DLCs are jigsaw pieces that, when put together, make the true ending. I really like this idea, but it would be very moneywhorish on Bioware's part.

[masster blaster]

You can ask questions and get a lot of valuable information from Vigil so it’s worth staying. Asking the first question about who it is it will provide a background to its creation and having inputs from Ksad Ishan the chief researcher at the Ilos facility. When you ask why it stopped the Mako, Vigil will say that the cycle must be broken, as it has gone on for millions of years. Vigil however needs the squad to understand so they can avoid making the same mistakes. It tells how the Citadel is really an enormous Mass Relay and a huge trap. When the relay is activated the Reapers come through from Dark Space and destroy all organic civilization in the galaxy before disappearing again. If you investigate then you will get some guesses on why the Reapers operate the way they do however no one knows why.

After responding, Vigil will confirm the fears about the Citadel Fleet and the Council and that is what happened with the Protheans. Their leaders were dead before anyone knew what was happening. Because the Reapers had access to all the maps and census data on the Protheans, they went systematically and wiped out their civilization. Colonies were isolated and picked off one by one and indoctrinated “refugees” were taken in by other Protheans only to have them turn on their own people when the Reapers showed up.

Respond to Vigil and it will explain about how the Conduit is a prototype mass relay and that it links to the Citadel, bypassing defenses. The Protheans were on the verge of unlocking the technology when the Reapers invaded. When you ask, Vigil will give the story behind how Ilos survived because all records of the project were destroyed in the initial attack so the Reapers had no knowledge of the planet. They went into cryostasis and eventually the facility went dark. However as the power failed, Vigil eventually had to deactivate the pods and even when the Reapers finally retreated, only the top researchers were still alive, all twelve of them. You can comment about that, but Vigil defends its actions.

Further investigation reveals the scientists knew their race was doomed however they labored for years to stop the cycle. They found a way to alter the signals from the Citadel to the keepers to prevent them from activating the relay. They used the Conduit to travel to the Citadel and thus preventing Sovereign from signaling the keepers. Vigil, if asked describes that their fate, trapped on the station, probably wasn’t pleasant.

Before you leave Vigil gives you a file that temporarily will give full access to the Citadel and its resources. However you must find the Master Control Terminal to get that access, however again Vigil says to follow Saren as he knows where to go. As you leave, if Liara is in your party she will ask to stay because they will probably never have another chance like this. You can either say to go and she will understand either way. When you do leave Vigil gives one last beacon of hope, Saren hasn’t reached the conduit yet and therefore Shepard still has time.

Modifié par masster blaster, 08 août 2012 - 01:19 .

[BlazingZephyr]

Hanar...

-- If the Reaper-makers made the citadel, then why does it have a Dark Space Mass Relay?

-- Masster is not talking about the Morning war, but the Heretics' (and Saren's) attacks on organics.

-- Unfortunately I agree with the "bad writing" part.

-- In Refuse, the Kid shuts off the Rainbow options, so he must control the Citadel. He could have just... shut off the elevator/sent it back down.

-- Not sure I want to go into the "clean slate" thing. Too much nonsense (logically, not just emotionally).

-- If he saw the error of his ways, he wouldn't continue the harvest in Refuse.

I mean, I completely get where your coming from. A LOT of ME3 was horribly written, I agree. I just want Mac'n'friends to see the potential greatness the IT could bring.

EDIT: minor spelling corrections.

Modifié par BlazingZephyr, 08 août 2012 - 01:14 .

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So Heretic Hanar do you think it's possible for the other races in Destroy to rebuild the Mass relays?

Yes, why wouldn't I believe that? It's said/shown clearly in the EC of Destroy that both the Citadel and the mass relays are being rebuild in the Destroy ending. It just takes a lot longer than it takes Reaper-God Shepard to rebuild them with his reaper forces.

Now tell me after reading this, is it possible that they can't really fix the separation of the systems, and remember most of the recourse's are depleted, because of the Crucible.

The Extended Cut of the Destroy ending clearly states we can rebuild the relays. So we can, as is stated by the game itself. Period.

[BlazingZephyr]

Yes, Hanar; what the game tells us is COMPLETELY reliable.

Modifié par BlazingZephyr, 08 août 2012 - 01:17 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

"Bad writing" is nothing more than personal opinion and really shouldn't be used as an explanation for anything ever.

Hanar, I engaged you in debate to once again prove one has to completely throw logic out the window to explain the ending using the literal perspective.

[masster blaster]

t is unknown who initially began the development of the Crucible. Countless different species obtained and made contributions to the design over the course of millions of years, but none successfully deployed it before being wiped out by the Reapers. The latest species to try, the Protheans, were able to construct the Crucible, but before they could deploy it, infighting broke out between those who wanted to use it to destroy the Reapers and a faction that believed they could use it to control the Reapers; these separatists were later discovered to be indoctrinated. While the Protheans never had the chance to activate the Crucible, its schematics survived in a Prothean archive on Mars for the next 50,000 years.
Modern Construction Edit

While examining the archives in 2186, Liara T'Soni found the Crucible's schematics and recognized their significance as a potential means to defeat the Reapers. Commander Shepard obtained them for the Alliance, which immediately began construction, a massive undertaking drawing on resources throughout the galaxy. Staggering financial costs were disregarded in the common effort to create something, anything, that could stop the Reapers.
The Crucible under construction

Despite the Crucible's elegant design, modern scientists could only determine that the device exploited the technology of mass relays, and were left to speculate on how it would ultimately function. More importantly, before the device could be activated it required one final component: the Catalyst. As revealed by the Prothean VI Vendetta, the Catalyst was the Citadel, the central control hub of the entire mass relay network. At some point in the past, contributors to the Crucible's design realized that it required a means to massively amplify its energy in order to be effective. The Citadel possessed this capability, and so was incorporated into the schematics.

Before the galaxy could combine the Crucible with the Catalyst, however, the Illusive Man fled to the Citadel and alerted the Reapers to the plan. The Reapers then moved the Citadel to the heart of their occupied territory, in orbit around Earth. With no other option, Admiral Hackett marshals the galaxy's fleets and proceeds to Sol with the Crucible.

Modifié par masster blaster, 08 août 2012 - 01:24 .

[ThisOneIsPunny]

RussianZombeh wrote...

I still believe that all future DLCs will reveal little bits of info about the Reapers, the Citadel/Catalyst, the Crucible and... Indoctrination.

All the DLCs are jigsaw pieces that, when put together, make the true ending. I really like this idea, but it would be very moneywhorish on Bioware's part.

Not moneywhorish, just a good idea when you're dealing with the final game of a trilogy. I mean, come on they're not Halo, CoD, or Gears. MP isn't going to keep people invested forever, and because there's no expected sequel(..yet), not very many people are going to want to buy DLC that doesn't have some affect on the story or the end game. Leviathan doesn't even have a release date yet and Bioware already has to deal with IGN feeding into the lingering anger from the fanbase by asking if the dlc is worth buying.

Because you know, the endings aren't going to change so hurdur why at all buy dlc that isn't post-ending.(Bioware knows why.)

[TJBartlemus]

masster blaster wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Masster, you should also bold the bottom of your codex quote that says:

"An asari matriarch was once quoted to have suggested creating new relays, but the potential for current era technology to do so is unknown."

Done.

You know who that matriarch is? Liara's "father". She was the bartender in ME2 on Illium. She even in a discussion with Shepard in ME2 confirms that she was the one who suggested the new relays. Only in ME3 do we learn that she is Liara's parent. It's pretty mindblowing. 

[DextroDNA]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

I still believe that all future DLCs will reveal little bits of info about the Reapers, the Citadel/Catalyst, the Crucible and... Indoctrination.

All the DLCs are jigsaw pieces that, when put together, make the true ending. I really like this idea, but it would be very moneywhorish on Bioware's part.

Not moneywhorish, just a good idea when you're dealing with the final game of a trilogy. I mean, come on they're not Halo, CoD, or Gears. MP isn't going to keep people invested forever, and because there's no expected sequel(..yet), not very many people are going to want to buy DLC that doesn't have some affect on the story or the end game. Leviathan doesn't even have a release date yet and Bioware already has to deal with IGN feeding into the lingering anger from the fanbase by asking if the dlc is worth buying.

Because you know, the endings aren't going to change so hurdur why at all buy dlc that isn't post-ending.(Bioware knows why.)

They've already said that there WILL be more Mass Effect games, and the movie is confirmed - they're still going to be making plenty of money. Making you pay for the "true" ending to a game IS moneywhorish.

Also, Leviathan does have a release date. Summer. Summer ends in 23 days, so some time in the next 3 weeks.

[The Heretic of Time]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

-- If the Reaper-makers made the citadel, then why does it have a Dark Space Mass Relay?

The same reason the Citadel has a relay to the Conduit on Ilos.

If the Protheans can build a relay linked with the Citadel, than the Reapers should have no problem doing it too.

-- Masster is not talking about the Morning war, but the Heretics' (and Saren's) attacks on organics.

He said all geth attacks are the fault of the reapers. This is not true, as I pointed out by mentioning the Morning War.

-- Unfortunately I agree with the "bad writing" part.

There is no shame in admitting that BioWare screwed up by not planning their trilogy ahead.

-- In Refuse, the Kid shuts off the Rainbow options, so he must control the Citadel. He could have just... shut off the elevator/sent it back down.

No, the Kid doesn't shut off anything. The Crucible is shut down because it's being destroyed by the reapers attacking it.

This is nothing new, this allready happened before the Refuse decision was added int he EC. If you refused to pick any of the 3 options in the original ending (e.g. if you did nothing), after a while, the Crucible shuts down and you get a Game Over screen saying "the Crucible is destroyed".

-- If he saw the error of his ways, he wouldn't continue the harvest in Refuse.

Of course he would! His solution still works, it just isn't the optimal solution. A not-optimal solution is still better than no solution at all!

I mean, I completely get where your coming from. A LOT of ME3 was horribly written, I agree. I just want Mac'n'friends to see the potential greatness the IT could bring.

I don't see the potential in the IT, other than that the IT is a fancy way of resetting the whole ending fiasco and giving the writers a second chance to write a better ending.

I don't think it is possible however to write a better ending to ME3, not with the silly and crappy Crucible plot.

Honestly, I think the EC endings are the best endings we can possibly hope to get. It just isn't possible to write a better ending for such a crappy plot.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 08 août 2012 - 01:26 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Shepard becomes the new Catalyst when he picks control. He's not a reaper himself.

Er... the game data says otherwise:

enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

[BlazingZephyr]

TJBartlemus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Masster, you should also bold the bottom of your codex quote that says:

"An asari matriarch was once quoted to have suggested creating new relays, but the potential for current era technology to do so is unknown."

Done.

You know who that matriarch is? Liara's "father". She was the bartender in ME2 on Illium. She even in a discussion with Shepard in ME2 confirms that she was the one who suggested the new relays. Only in ME3 do we learn that she is Liara's parent. It's pretty mindblowing. 

*Resists saying "Duh"*

Yes, Aethyta (think that's spelled right). And actually, you learn it in LotSB, if you look in the right places.

[byne]

TJBartlemus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Masster, you should also bold the bottom of your codex quote that says:

"An asari matriarch was once quoted to have suggested creating new relays, but the potential for current era technology to do so is unknown."

Done.

You know who that matriarch is? Liara's "father". She was the bartender in ME2 on Illium. She even in a discussion with Shepard in ME2 confirms that she was the one who suggested the new relays. Only in ME3 do we learn that she is Liara's parent. It's pretty mindblowing. 

I knew that before ME3.

It was pretty obvious from talking with her, plus theres a video log at the Shadow Broker base of her staring at a picture of Liara.

If you saw that video log, Shep even mentions it to Aethyta in ME3.

[byne]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Shepard becomes the new Catalyst when he picks control. He's not a reaper himself.

Er... the game data says otherwise:

enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

I think the guide book also says you become a Reaper.

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

-- If the Reaper-makers made the citadel, then why does it have a Dark Space Mass Relay?

The same reason the Citadel has a relay to the Conduit on Ilos.

If the Protheans can build a relay linked with the Citadel, than the Reapers should have no problem doing it too.

-- Masster is not talking about the Morning war, but the Heretics' (and Saren's) attacks on organics.

He said all geth attacks are the fault of the reapers. This is not true, as I pointed out by mentioning the Morning War.

-- Unfortunately I agree with the "bad writing" part.

There is no shame in admitting that BioWare screwed up by not planning their trilogy ahead.

-- In Refuse, the Kid shuts off the Rainbow options, so he must control the Citadel. He could have just... shut off the elevator/sent it back down.

No, the Kid doesn't shut off anything. The Crucible is shut down because it's being destroyed by the reapers attacking it.

This is nothing new, this allready happened before the Refuse decision was added int he EC. If you refused to pick any of the 3 options in the original ending (e.g. if you did nothing), after a while, the Crucible shuts down and you get a Game Over screen saying "the Crucible is destroyed".

-- If he saw the error of his ways, he wouldn't continue the harvest in Refuse.

Of course he would! His solution still works, it just isn't the optimal solution. A not-optimal solution is still better than no solution at all!

I mean, I completely get where your coming from. A LOT of ME3 was horribly written, I agree. I just want Mac'n'friends to see the potential greatness the IT could bring.

I don't see the potential in the IT, other than that the IT is a fancy way of resetting the whole ending fiasco and giving the writers a second chance to write a better ending.

I don't think it is possible however to write a better ending to ME3, not with the silly and crappy Crucible plot.

Honestly, I think the EC endings are the best endings we can possibly hope to get. It just isn't possible to write a better ending for such a crappy plot.

I didn't say the geth at all, and I didn't even mention that at all.

[The Heretic of Time]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Shepard becomes the new Catalyst when he picks control. He's not a reaper himself.

Er... the game data says otherwise:

enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

LOL that's just a variable label in the game-data. It's an easy way of putting "Shepard becomes the new overlord of the Reapers in form of a new Catalyst AI".

You shouldn't put too much weight on labels like that, trust me, this is coming from a game-designer. I often give my own variables much sillier labels when I'm programming myself.

If you look at the data of my own video-games, you'll find lots of things like 'DerpDestroyed' and 'CreateNewDerp' and stuff like that.

[DoomsdayDevice]

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Shepard becomes the new Catalyst when he picks control. He's not a reaper himself.

Er... the game data says otherwise:

enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

I think the guide book also says you become a Reaper.

Yes! Now that you mention it. I noticed that when thumbing through my friend's copy. =)

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

I didn't say the geth at all, and I didn't even mention that at all.

Yeah BlazingZephyr mistakenly thought you said that. It was someone else though who said it.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

-- If the Reaper-makers made the citadel, then why does it have a Dark Space Mass Relay?

The same reason the Citadel has a relay to the Conduit on Ilos.

If the Protheans can build a relay linked with the Citadel, than the Reapers should have no problem doing it too.

-- Masster is not talking about the Morning war, but the Heretics' (and Saren's) attacks on organics.

He said all geth attacks are the fault of the reapers. This is not true, as I pointed out by mentioning the Morning War.

-- Unfortunately I agree with the "bad writing" part.

There is no shame in admitting that BioWare screwed up by not planning their trilogy ahead.

-- In Refuse, the Kid shuts off the Rainbow options, so he must control the Citadel. He could have just... shut off the elevator/sent it back down.

No, the Kid doesn't shut off anything. The Crucible is shut down because it's being destroyed by the reapers attacking it.

This is nothing new, this allready happened before the Refuse decision was added int he EC. If you refused to pick any of the 3 options in the original ending (e.g. if you did nothing), after a while, the Crucible shuts down and you get a Game Over screen saying "the Crucible is destroyed".

-- If he saw the error of his ways, he wouldn't continue the harvest in Refuse.

Of course he would! His solution still works, it just isn't the optimal solution. A not-optimal solution is still better than no solution at all!

I mean, I completely get where your coming from. A LOT of ME3 was horribly written, I agree. I just want Mac'n'friends to see the potential greatness the IT could bring.

I don't see the potential in the IT, other than that the IT is a fancy way of resetting the whole ending fiasco and giving the writers a second chance to write a better ending.

I don't think it is possible however to write a better ending to ME3, not with the silly and crappy Crucible plot.

Honestly, I think the EC endings are the best endings we can possibly hope to get. It just isn't possible to write a better ending for such a crappy plot.

I get the sense from reading your posts that you have a rather poor understanding of the story you insist on criticizing. 

Btw I left out the morning war intentionally. That war was the quarians fault. No rebellion on the geths' part. Just quarians deciding to massacre the geth and the geth defending themselves. 

Modifié par GethPrimeMKII, 08 août 2012 - 01:33 .

[Arian Dynas]

TJBartlemus wrote...

byne wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...


The end of ME2 has been bothering me lately. The BioWare team goes into great detail that there is this variety of Reapers in that scene, and even in the collector base mission we are told that Reapers shapes are made from each species. So where is the variety? Where are all the species? The only reapers in ME3 we see are the sovereign class, destroyer, hades cannon and Harbinger. The pic that Riot gives is the only variety we have seen in ME3 so far, and as that we haven't seen that type yet anywhere else it is entirely possible that is what Leviathan looks like. Why not? BioWare has been giving hints throughout the game about it...why not one more? OR It also be a hint that the Catalyst is lying in saying that all the species are preserved. If that was true, and that each species in Reaper form looks similar to the organic version where are all the different types? 

PS. Welcome back Riot!! I've missed your speculation filled pictures lately. :happy:

I'm pretty sure that only the core of the Reaper resembles the species they made the Reaper from, and the core gets covered in the cuttlefish armor, which is why most Reapers look the same.

How would that work with the Human Reaper? Besides over the thousands of cycles and even in this cycle, there is a lot of variety. So I don't think that idea would be practical.... 

You want the real reason for that tidbit?

Bioware bit off more than they could chew, found they didn't have the time to design all new entirely unique Reaper chassis, and gave that as a excuse.

In other words, retcon.

[byne]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Shepard becomes the new Catalyst when he picks control. He's not a reaper himself.

Er... the game data says otherwise:

enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

LOL that's just a variable label in the game-data. It's an easy way of putting "Shepard becomes the new overlord of the Reapers in form of a new Catalyst AI".

You shouldn't put too much weight on labels like that, trust me, this is coming from a game-designer. I often give my own variables much sillier labels when I'm programming myself.

If you look at the data of my own video-games, you'll find lots of things like 'DerpDestroyed' and 'CreateNewDerp' and stuff like that.

So what about the fact that its also what the guide book says happens?

[The Heretic of Time]

The leaked script also says you become a Reaper. Whatever.

The EC makes it perfecly clear that the new Shepard AI is much more than that.


In order to create a reaper, you need to harvest an entire civilisation. That obviously didn't happen in the Control ending, so Shepard did not turn into a Reaper, period. He became the new Catalyst.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 08 août 2012 - 01:33 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Shepard becomes the new Catalyst when he picks control. He's not a reaper himself.

Er... the game data says otherwise:

enum EEndGameOption
{
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDestroyed,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthDevastated,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOk,
EGO_ReapersDestroyedEarthOkShepardAlive,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthDestroyedAndReapersLeave,
EGO_BecomeAReaperAndEarthOkAndReapersLeave,
EGO_HarmonyOfManAndMachine,
EGO_Demo,
EGO_None,
EGO_MAX,
}

LOL that's just a variable label in the game-data. It's an easy way of putting "Shepard becomes the new overlord of the Reapers in form of a new Catalyst AI".

You shouldn't put too much weight on labels like that, trust me, this is coming from a game-designer. I often give my own variables much sillier labels when I'm programming myself.

If you look at the data of my own video-games, you'll find lots of things like 'DerpDestroyed' and 'CreateNewDerp' and stuff like that.

I'm aware of that, but it's also mentioned in the guide book.

But I guess 'ShepardAlive' doesn't mean anything either, it actually means 'ShowShepardLastBreathBeforeDying' according to "some" people.