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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#70551
estebanus

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CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Meeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh, you know what I mean - like an 'Undead Nightmare' type dealio.

Husks are a bit different - Zombies are all to do with viruses and infections imo


And Thorian Creepers?


Spores and mind control. Close, but not exactly zombie in that they don't try to eat your braaaaains?

Maybe they do, and we just haven't seen it? Also, isn't that how the solanum virus turns people undead? According to the zombie survival guide, the virus manifests inside the brain and forms some kinda fungus that controls the most basic actions of the person's body. My memory's a bit hazy though, so I don't remember quite rightly.


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P

Uhm, not really, no. Seeing friends, neighbours and loved ones getting turned into monsters would be horrible. Not only that, but I'd have nothing to defend myself with, and I only have a little combat training. 

Now, if my sister were fighting together with me, it'd be quite a different story. We'd just go to the closest military base and stock up on weapons and ammo :lol:

#70552
byne

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fur if he was created out of her memorys, then why doesn't Shepard's LI think about Shepard so much he/she comes back as a ghost, or what ever?

Kasumi has a greybox of her own which retains her memories of Kejii, while Shepard's LI doesn't. With the new Synthesized greybox, Kasumi is able to connect with him in a new way in the form of a fully sentient hologram version of Kejii, while the LI still has to rely on just their memories (or buy the Shepard VI).


Except that scene doesnt care if you destroy the graybox or not. It always happens. Even when she doesnt have it.

#70553
CoolioThane

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Fur28 wrote...


i would very much like that, but i know i wont be the awesome guy with a shotgun who gets the girl, i´ll most likely be a decapitated zombie


We've all decided when it happens we stick together and just roam about. No point trying to settle a new society; it'd be boring. We're just planning on moving about, seeing the sights, scavenging from local shops and supermarkets etc until we die.

I don't know how I'd react to the situation where a zombie was in the way between a and b. I know it's easy to say "Yeah, I'd smash his ****ing head in" but I think if you're actually in that situation it'd be a bit trickier. 

Oh one can dream


@estebanus: Only if you don't stay holed up in the base! It's cheating if you do :P

Modifié par CoolioThane, 20 décembre 2012 - 11:46 .


#70554
BatmanTurian

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Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P


Secretly, everyone yearns for the day the zombies rise up.


Sure, because that is the most likely scenario for life turning into survival...
You are more likely going to live through earthquakes, floods, famines, pandemic deseases (that do not turn you into a zombie), nuclear meltdowns and/or any kind of war.

Yellowstone supervolcano will be the one that ends civilization. That or the resurgence of the Ice Age since we're in a temporary interglacial.

#70555
Fur28

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fur if he was created out of her memorys, then why doesn't Shepard's LI think about Shepard so much he/she comes back as a ghost, or what ever?

Kasumi has a greybox of her own which retains her memories of Kejii, while Shepard's LI doesn't. With the new Synthesized greybox, Kasumi is able to connect with him in a new way in the form of a fully sentient hologram version of Kejii, while the LI still has to rely on just their memories (or buy the Shepard VI).


yeah but keiji´s ghost also appears with the greybox destroyed and thats why i said my brain thingy

#70556
Restrider

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byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fur if he was created out of her memorys, then why doesn't Shepard's LI think about Shepard so much he/she comes back as a ghost, or what ever?

Kasumi has a greybox of her own which retains her memories of Kejii, while Shepard's LI doesn't. With the new Synthesized greybox, Kasumi is able to connect with him in a new way in the form of a fully sentient hologram version of Kejii, while the LI still has to rely on just their memories (or buy the Shepard VI).


Except that scene doesnt care if you destroy the graybox or not. It always happens. Even when she doesnt have it.

I guess Revan is referring to Kasumi's graybox that supposedly is always intact in ME3.

#70557
Hanako Ikezawa

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estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Meeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh, you know what I mean - like an 'Undead Nightmare' type dealio.

Husks are a bit different - Zombies are all to do with viruses and infections imo


And Thorian Creepers?


Spores and mind control. Close, but not exactly zombie in that they don't try to eat your braaaaains?

Maybe they do, and we just haven't seen it? Also, isn't that how the solanum virus turns people undead? According to the zombie survival guide, the virus manifests inside the brain and forms some kinda fungus that controls the most basic actions of the person's body. My memory's a bit hazy though, so I don't remember quite rightly.


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P

Uhm, not really, no. Seeing friends, neighbours and loved ones getting turned into monsters would be horrible. Not only that, but I'd have nothing to defend myself with, and I only have a little combat training. 

Now, if my sister were fighting together with me, it'd be quite a different story. We'd just go to the closest military base and stock up on weapons and ammo :lol:

Don't forget bleaded weaponry for close encounters. Guns are good, but loud, which will alert all other zombies. However,blades are silent so as long as you're stealthy you'll survive. That's why I'm glad I learned how to wield both a katana and ninjato swords, as well as kunai and shuriken for further distances.

#70558
Restrider

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P


Secretly, everyone yearns for the day the zombies rise up.


Sure, because that is the most likely scenario for life turning into survival...
You are more likely going to live through earthquakes, floods, famines, pandemic deseases (that do not turn you into a zombie), nuclear meltdowns and/or any kind of war.

Yellowstone supervolcano will be the one that ends civilization. That or the resurgence of the Ice Age since we're in a temporary interglacial.

Probably that, if humankind does not reach a certain technological level to prevent these scenarios from either happening at all or having a huge impact on society.

#70559
Fur28

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CoolioThane wrote...

Fur28 wrote...


i would very much like that, but i know i wont be the awesome guy with a shotgun who gets the girl, i´ll most likely be a decapitated zombie


We've all decided when it happens we stick together and just roam about. No point trying to settle a new society; it'd be boring. We're just planning on moving about, seeing the sights, scavenging from local shops and supermarkets etc until we die.

I don't know how I'd react to the situation where a zombie was in the way between a and b. I know it's easy to say "Yeah, I'd smash his ****ing head in" but I think if you're actually in that situation it'd be a bit trickier. 

Oh one can dream


my plan is to used the gun my grandpa left me, for when i´m 21, the rest is to improvise
everything we learned in movies and games is worth sh!t, silenzisers dont work, katanas break easily...

#70560
Hanako Ikezawa

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Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fur if he was created out of her memorys, then why doesn't Shepard's LI think about Shepard so much he/she comes back as a ghost, or what ever?

Kasumi has a greybox of her own which retains her memories of Kejii, while Shepard's LI doesn't. With the new Synthesized greybox, Kasumi is able to connect with him in a new way in the form of a fully sentient hologram version of Kejii, while the LI still has to rely on just their memories (or buy the Shepard VI).


Except that scene doesnt care if you destroy the graybox or not. It always happens. Even when she doesnt have it.

I guess Revan is referring to Kasumi's graybox that supposedly is always intact in ME3.

Kejii's graybox, the one that you go to get in ME2, can be destroyed. Kasumi never offers to destroy her own and always has it with her.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 20 décembre 2012 - 11:48 .


#70561
CoolioThane

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I would not want to mess with you Revan :P Wanna stick with my crew in the apocalypse? haha

#70562
byne

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Don't forget bleaded weaponry for close encounters. Guns are good, but loud, which will alert all other zombies. However,blades are silent so as long as you're stealthy you'll survive. That's why I'm glad I learned how to wield both a katana and ninjato swords, as well as kunai and shuriken for further distances.


If we're talking WWZ style zombies, blades arent gonna be much help. You can cut off the head, but unless you destroy the brain, its gonna keep moaning and alert other zombies. Plus, you need to keep blades sharp.

The best bet is to get some sort of blunt weapon.

#70563
CoolioThane

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CRICKET BATTTTTT

#70564
estebanus

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P


Secretly, everyone yearns for the day the zombies rise up.


Sure, because that is the most likely scenario for life turning into survival...
You are more likely going to live through earthquakes, floods, famines, pandemic deseases (that do not turn you into a zombie), nuclear meltdowns and/or any kind of war.

Yellowstone supervolcano will be the one that ends civilization. That or the resurgence of the Ice Age since we're in a temporary interglacial.

Yellowstone will most likely not lead to the total end of the world. True, large parts of the USA would be destroyed, possibly killing the nation, and the volcanic ashes will blot out the sun for years to come, but it'll most likely not kill everyone. The explosion simply wouldn't be large enough to destroy humanity. 

#70565
Restrider

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Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.
Edit: And with these words, Restrider out.

Modifié par Restrider, 20 décembre 2012 - 11:51 .


#70566
BatmanTurian

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Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P


Secretly, everyone yearns for the day the zombies rise up.


Sure, because that is the most likely scenario for life turning into survival...
You are more likely going to live through earthquakes, floods, famines, pandemic deseases (that do not turn you into a zombie), nuclear meltdowns and/or any kind of war.

Yellowstone supervolcano will be the one that ends civilization. That or the resurgence of the Ice Age since we're in a temporary interglacial.

Probably that, if humankind does not reach a certain technological level to prevent these scenarios from either happening at all or having a huge impact on society.

I'm not sure how you would stop a supervolcano without somehow shunting off massive amounts of built-up heat and pressure. Ice Age we could adapt to (we lived through one with primitive tech) but a Super Volcano is an extinction event.

#70567
Hanako Ikezawa

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CoolioThane wrote...

I would not want to mess with you Revan :P Wanna stick with my crew in the apocalypse? haha

I don't know. I'll have to look at my busy schedule ...*looks at schedule book*... well, it seems that everyone else cancelled their appointments, so sure why not. You always stick with a group in a zombie apocalypse.

#70568
BatmanTurian

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estebanus wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P


Secretly, everyone yearns for the day the zombies rise up.


Sure, because that is the most likely scenario for life turning into survival...
You are more likely going to live through earthquakes, floods, famines, pandemic deseases (that do not turn you into a zombie), nuclear meltdowns and/or any kind of war.

Yellowstone supervolcano will be the one that ends civilization. That or the resurgence of the Ice Age since we're in a temporary interglacial.

Yellowstone will most likely not lead to the total end of the world. True, large parts of the USA would be destroyed, possibly killing the nation, and the volcanic ashes will blot out the sun for years to come, but it'll most likely not kill everyone. The explosion simply wouldn't be large enough to destroy humanity. 



A similar one happened 150,000 years ago in Sumatra that reduced the human race down to a few thousand individuals world-wide. That's why we have less diversity in our genes than other animals.
EDIT: destroying the US would destroy the world economy so yeah... some kind of dystopian apocolypse would happen.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 20 décembre 2012 - 11:53 .


#70569
byne

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Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.

#70570
estebanus

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Meeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh, you know what I mean - like an 'Undead Nightmare' type dealio.

Husks are a bit different - Zombies are all to do with viruses and infections imo


And Thorian Creepers?


Spores and mind control. Close, but not exactly zombie in that they don't try to eat your braaaaains?

Maybe they do, and we just haven't seen it? Also, isn't that how the solanum virus turns people undead? According to the zombie survival guide, the virus manifests inside the brain and forms some kinda fungus that controls the most basic actions of the person's body. My memory's a bit hazy though, so I don't remember quite rightly.


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P

Uhm, not really, no. Seeing friends, neighbours and loved ones getting turned into monsters would be horrible. Not only that, but I'd have nothing to defend myself with, and I only have a little combat training. 

Now, if my sister were fighting together with me, it'd be quite a different story. We'd just go to the closest military base and stock up on weapons and ammo :lol:

Don't forget bleaded weaponry for close encounters. Guns are good, but loud, which will alert all other zombies. However,blades are silent so as long as you're stealthy you'll survive. That's why I'm glad I learned how to wield both a katana and ninjato swords, as well as kunai and shuriken for further distances.

Hmm, I have some limited gun training, and I've gone to a swordfighting course for several years. However, I've mostly learned to use bastard swords. That would mean that I could chop a zombie's head off in a second, but since the blade is heavy, I wouldn't have many chances to do so.

Where did you learn to fight withclose-quartered weapons?

#70571
Hanako Ikezawa

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byne wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Don't forget bleaded weaponry for close encounters. Guns are good, but loud, which will alert all other zombies. However,blades are silent so as long as you're stealthy you'll survive. That's why I'm glad I learned how to wield both a katana and ninjato swords, as well as kunai and shuriken for further distances.


If we're talking WWZ style zombies, blades arent gonna be much help. You can cut off the head, but unless you destroy the brain, its gonna keep moaning and alert other zombies. Plus, you need to keep blades sharp.

The best bet is to get some sort of blunt weapon.

I have sharpening stones, so I'm not worried about that. Also, just decapitate then stab the helpless head. Simple

#70572
Restrider

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P


Secretly, everyone yearns for the day the zombies rise up.


Sure, because that is the most likely scenario for life turning into survival...
You are more likely going to live through earthquakes, floods, famines, pandemic deseases (that do not turn you into a zombie), nuclear meltdowns and/or any kind of war.

Yellowstone supervolcano will be the one that ends civilization. That or the resurgence of the Ice Age since we're in a temporary interglacial.

Probably that, if humankind does not reach a certain technological level to prevent these scenarios from either happening at all or having a huge impact on society.

I'm not sure how you would stop a supervolcano without somehow shunting off massive amounts of built-up heat and pressure. Ice Age we could adapt to (we lived through one with primitive tech) but a Super Volcano is an extinction event.

It actually only depends on the amount of ashes being emitted to the atmosphere and thus the effect on the climate. In the end it would just start a short, but intense Ice Age.
Granted North America would be screwed, but as estebanus pointed out the US =/= the world.
Of course it would be a major setback for humankind, but I guess humans would survive it.

And to point out a common missconception, I'll have to quote Wladimir Putin (never thought I'd do that here):

"The end of the world (not humankind!!) is going to happen in around 4.5 billion years, when the sun enter its last stages of life."

#70573
DoomsdayDevice

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Now, for the 'interesting' conversation with EDI that I was talking about the other day.

This happens right after the Citadel Coup for me. EDI is worried about her mortality because the Tuchanka Reaper (a technologically superior force) was destroyed by a worm.

This causes her to ask Shepard what the purpose of synthetic life is. This can play out in four different ways.

First branching point:

You can tell her that the purpose of a synthetic is the job it was designed for (renegade), or you can tell her that it's whatever a synthetic wants (paragon).

First option: You tell her it's the job it was designed for, and that it's a matter of looking what the creator made it for.

She then says Cerberus made her, but that she no longer serves them. You then tell her that one of Cerberus goals was to give humanity a fighting chance, and that maybe she could get behind that.

She then says that it's not very different from what she's doing now and asks if you think she would find it worthwhile. (Kind of a strange thing to ask, if you think about it!)

Joker then comments: "Well, you could do it for me! I'd make a pretty crappy husk."

Then EDI aks: "How would this differ from our present course?" (Second branching point):

You can either tell her she would know the difference, or that it would not be servitude.

If you go with the first option, you say it would change what she would tell herself.

She then says she will not change her programming yet, but that she will devote processing power to thinking of a worthy goal.

If you take the other option (not servitude), you tell her that she decides if it's worth it.

She reflects for a moment, and then says that on the Normandy she can share her perspectives with the crew. If she did that with the Reapers, she would be destroyed. So she would rather risk non-functionality by staying on the Normandy.

IMO, this is strange for several reasons. For one, we weren't talking about the Reapers' goals, but Cerberus'. Secondly, this seems to imply she's only siding with us because it means it improves her chances for survival for now.

Now, back to the first branching point of the conversation.

You tell her the purpose of synthetic life is not very different from organic life. A free-willed synthetic chooses what it wants.

EDI then says that the purpose of organic life is to preserve itself long enough to replicate copies of its genes in succeeding generations. And that the only examples of succesful synthetic lifeforms that she knows about are the Geth and the Reapers.

You can respond to this in one of two ways (second branching point):

You can tell her there´s more to organics: Reproduction isn't all there is, people find meaning in the work they do, good deeds, love.

She then searches historic records on human behaviour to see if your claim is true. Upon finding that it is, she says she will alter her programming to devote more processing power to duty, altruism and love.

Joker then asks (and rightfully so!): "Wait - you can do that? You can just 'turn yourself good'?" This is a very interesting question, because it also means she (or the Reapers) could turn herself evil with the 'flick of a switch' as well.

This raises all kinds of interesting questions about morality and ethics for synthetics, and it seems relevant to the question if they have a soul.

Are synthetics really people? Or are they just machines who can turn themselves good or evil with the flick of a switch?

That aside, let's look at the most interesting part of the conversation.

Instead of telling her there's more to organics, you can tell her to not think like a Reaper. You say: "There's nothing to emulate about the Reapers." Joker wholeheartedly seconds this.

EDI then says that the Reapers are an extremely successful model, with average lifespans of millions of years.

Shepard then says that she should ask herself if she wants to spend her life destroying and harvesting organics.

EDI then says: "That is an unusual perspective, Shepard. I will devote processing power to considering it. Thank you."

:blink:

Not drawing any conclusions based on this, because I'm still in the middle of my playthrough, and I'm aware of some of the more positive things she says at a later stage... but it's safe to say that some of the things she says really give me pause.

Food for thought.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 21 décembre 2012 - 12:12 .


#70574
Hanako Ikezawa

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estebanus wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Don't forget bleaded weaponry for close encounters. Guns are good, but loud, which will alert all other zombies. However,blades are silent so as long as you're stealthy you'll survive. That's why I'm glad I learned how to wield both a katana and ninjato swords, as well as kunai and shuriken for further distances.

Hmm, I have some limited gun training, and I've gone to a swordfighting course for several years. However, I've mostly learned to use bastard swords. That would mean that I could chop a zombie's head off in a second, but since the blade is heavy, I wouldn't have many chances to do so.

Where did you learn to fight withclose-quartered weapons?

I have a friend who is Japanese and reatain their culture(their family lineage comes from a samurai village), and they taught me how to use them. That's why I'm only really good with those kinds of swords and not European swords.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 20 décembre 2012 - 11:57 .


#70575
estebanus

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BatmanTurian wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...


No idea! By zombies I mean the Romero ones!

Does anyone else kinda wish there would be a REAL LIFE zombie outbreak and life turns into survival rather than boring consumerist bull****? I know my housemates and I want it to happen :P


Secretly, everyone yearns for the day the zombies rise up.


Sure, because that is the most likely scenario for life turning into survival...
You are more likely going to live through earthquakes, floods, famines, pandemic deseases (that do not turn you into a zombie), nuclear meltdowns and/or any kind of war.

Yellowstone supervolcano will be the one that ends civilization. That or the resurgence of the Ice Age since we're in a temporary interglacial.

Yellowstone will most likely not lead to the total end of the world. True, large parts of the USA would be destroyed, possibly killing the nation, and the volcanic ashes will blot out the sun for years to come, but it'll most likely not kill everyone. The explosion simply wouldn't be large enough to destroy humanity. 



A similar one happened 150,000 years ago in Sumatra that reduced the human race down to a few thousand individuals world-wide. That's why we have less diversity in our genes than other animals.
EDIT: destroying the US would destroy the world economy so yeah... some kind of dystopian apocolypse would happen.

Sure, but humanity didn't cease to exist. And we're far more advanced today than 150.000 years ago. Many would die, yes, but humanity wouldn't be destroyed.