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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#70576
BatmanTurian

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Restrider wrote...
It actually only depends on the amount of ashes being emitted to the atmosphere and thus the effect on the climate. In the end it would just start a short, but intense Ice Age.
Granted North America would be screwed, but as estebanus pointed out the US =/= the world.
Of course it would be a major setback for humankind, but I guess humans would survive it.

And to point out a common missconception, I'll have to quote Wladimir Putin (never thought I'd do that here):

"The end of the world (not humankind!!) is going to happen in around 4.5 billion years, when the sun enter its last stages of life."

Russians are so literal. Yes, we know the end of the world is when the sun swallows us, Putin. George Carlin said it before you did in a far more original and entertaining way.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 20 décembre 2012 - 11:57 .


#70577
Restrider

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byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.


Thinking that a virus changes an entire human to function outside the laws of thermodynamics is as asinine as believing in literal ME3-Synthesis. Something has to power zombies, especially if they are faster, more resilient and stronger than an average human. Usually zombies do not ingest as much calories as a normal, well fed human. So, maybe they are powered by their own biological mass degenerating. Thus they could starve...

#70578
byne

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Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.


Thinking that a virus changes an entire human to function outside the laws of thermodynamics is as asinine as believing in literal ME3-Synthesis. Something has to power zombies, especially if they are faster, more resilient and stronger than an average human. Usually zombies do not ingest as much calories as a normal, well fed human. So, maybe they are powered by their own biological mass degenerating. Thus they could starve...


We're talking about zombies and you're asking me to think realistically about it?

#70579
BatmanTurian

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estebanus wrote...
Sure, but humanity didn't cease to exist. And we're far more advanced today than 150.000 years ago. Many would die, yes, but humanity wouldn't be destroyed.

Either way, it won't be a pleasant day to exist.

#70580
Restrider

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BatmanTurian wrote...
 Russians are so literal. Yes, we know the end of the world is when the sun swallows us, Putin. George Carlin said it before you did in a far more original and entertaining way.

How humanity survives:
"We evolve or we die!" - everyone's favourite ME3 character.

#70581
Restrider

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byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.


Thinking that a virus changes an entire human to function outside the laws of thermodynamics is as asinine as believing in literal ME3-Synthesis. Something has to power zombies, especially if they are faster, more resilient and stronger than an average human. Usually zombies do not ingest as much calories as a normal, well fed human. So, maybe they are powered by their own biological mass degenerating. Thus they could starve...


We're talking about zombies and you're asking me to think realistically about it?

Precisely!^_^

#70582
BatmanTurian

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Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.


Thinking that a virus changes an entire human to function outside the laws of thermodynamics is as asinine as believing in literal ME3-Synthesis. Something has to power zombies, especially if they are faster, more resilient and stronger than an average human. Usually zombies do not ingest as much calories as a normal, well fed human. So, maybe they are powered by their own biological mass degenerating. Thus they could starve...

Quarantine came up with plausible "zombies" with a kind of super rabies which is actually quite possible and frickin' scary. These aren't the dead coming back to life, of course, but they fit the other hallmarks.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 21 décembre 2012 - 12:02 .


#70583
Hanako Ikezawa

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Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
 Russians are so literal. Yes, we know the end of the world is when the sun swallows us, Putin. George Carlin said it before you did in a far more original and entertaining way.

How humanity survives:
"We evolve or we die!" - everyone's favourite ME3 character.

He's not all bad. He is voiced by Troy Baker, which made the parts where he talks awesome.

#70584
estebanus

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Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
 Russians are so literal. Yes, we know the end of the world is when the sun swallows us, Putin. George Carlin said it before you did in a far more original and entertaining way.

How humanity survives:
"We evolve or we die!" - everyone's favourite ME3 character.

Humanity will already be long gone before the sun swallows up earth. In about 1.2 billion years, there will be no water left on Earth, simply because the slowly swelling sun will have caused it all to evaporate.

#70585
GethPrimeMKII

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Control and Synthesis proponents are getting more pushy and antagonistic....

Mind to elaborate, Mr. Turian?:o

Why don't more people choose Control?

http://social.biowar...ndex/15333826/1


Destroy - Killing Synthetics to Save Synthetics

http://social.biowar.../index/15344202


I opened up those links expecting massive amounts of Bioware and IT bashing. I like that regardless if they believe the ending is indoctrination, a lot of them still aren't buying the Catalyst's BS. 

Modifié par GethPrimeMKII, 21 décembre 2012 - 12:08 .


#70586
byne

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DD, I always thought that conversation was interesting. Even more so with the renegade stuff, which I've never picked.

#70587
Restrider

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.


Thinking that a virus changes an entire human to function outside the laws of thermodynamics is as asinine as believing in literal ME3-Synthesis. Something has to power zombies, especially if they are faster, more resilient and stronger than an average human. Usually zombies do not ingest as much calories as a normal, well fed human. So, maybe they are powered by their own biological mass degenerating. Thus they could starve...

Quarintine came up with plausible "zombies" with a kind of super rabies which is actually quite possible and frickin' scary. These aren't the dead coming back to life, of course, but they fit the other hallmarks.

True, but they die the same way humans die. And humans are good in killing humans.
And the incubation time and spreading methods would also have to be taken into account.
For instance, the Reavers in Firefly/Serenity are something I'd consider as a real possibility (and they are really scary).

#70588
DoomsdayDevice

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... of course I had to get bottom post with my huge wall of SRS BSNS. Always happens. <_<

#70589
Hanako Ikezawa

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.


Thinking that a virus changes an entire human to function outside the laws of thermodynamics is as asinine as believing in literal ME3-Synthesis. Something has to power zombies, especially if they are faster, more resilient and stronger than an average human. Usually zombies do not ingest as much calories as a normal, well fed human. So, maybe they are powered by their own biological mass degenerating. Thus they could starve...

Quarantine came up with plausible "zombies" with a kind of super rabies which is actually quite possible and frickin' scary. These aren't the dead coming back to life, of course, but they fit the other hallmarks.



#70590
Restrider

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estebanus wrote...

Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
 Russians are so literal. Yes, we know the end of the world is when the sun swallows us, Putin. George Carlin said it before you did in a far more original and entertaining way.

How humanity survives:
"We evolve or we die!" - everyone's favourite ME3 character.

Humanity will already be long gone before the sun swallows up earth. In about 1.2 billion years, there will be no water left on Earth, simply because the slowly swelling sun will have caused it all to evaporate.

Earth does not care, if it has water on it....
Specifically talking about the end of the world here.:o

#70591
Fur28

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LDS Darth Revan wrote...

estebanus wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Don't forget bleaded weaponry for close encounters. Guns are good, but loud, which will alert all other zombies. However,blades are silent so as long as you're stealthy you'll survive. That's why I'm glad I learned how to wield both a katana and ninjato swords, as well as kunai and shuriken for further distances.

Hmm, I have some limited gun training, and I've gone to a swordfighting course for several years. However, I've mostly learned to use bastard swords. That would mean that I could chop a zombie's head off in a second, but since the blade is heavy, I wouldn't have many chances to do so.

Where did you learn to fight withclose-quartered weapons?

I have a friend who is Japanese and reatain their culture(their family lineage comes from a samurai village), and they taught me how to use them. That's why I'm only really good with those kinds of swords and not European swords.


dont katanas need a lot of maintenance or they break,? and since there are a lot of zombies out there who leave little time to take a break and take care of your sword
welp i´ll use the classic machete and sword in my yard

Modifié par Fur28, 21 décembre 2012 - 12:07 .


#70592
BatmanTurian

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

... of course I had to get bottom post with my huge wall of SRS BSNS. Always happens. <_<

I read your post, i just have no comment because it's self-evident stuff but it's something to think about.

#70593
byne

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So, guys.... whats your zombie plan?

#70594
Hanako Ikezawa

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Now, for the 'interesting' conversation with EDI that I was talking about the other day.

This happens right after the Citadel Coup for me. EDI is worried about her mortality because the Tuchanka Reaper (a technologically superior force) was destroyed by a worm.

This causes her to ask Shepard what the purpose of synthetic life is. This can play out in four different ways.

First branching point:

You can tell her that the purpose of a synthetic is the job it was designed for (renegade), or you can tell her that it's whatever a synthetic wants (paragon).

First option: You tell her it's the job it was designed for, and that it's a matter of looking what the creator made it for.

She then says Cerberus made her, but that she no longer serves them. You then tell her that one of Cerberus goals was to give humanity a fighting chance, and that maybe she could get behind that.

She then says that it's not very different from what she's doing now and asks if you think she would find it worthwhile. (Kind of a strange thing to ask, if you think about it!)

Joker then comments: "Well, you could do it for me! I'd make a pretty crappy husk."

Then EDI aks: "How would this differ from our present course?" (Second branching point):

You can either tell her she would know the difference, or that it would not be servitude (.

If you go with the first option, you say it would change what she would tell herself.

She then says she will not change her programming yet, but that she will devote processing power to thinking of a worthy goal.

If you take the other option (not servitude), you tell her that she decides if it's worth it.

She reflects for a moment, and then says that on the Normandy she can share her perspectives with the crew. If she did that with the Reapers, she would be destroyed. So she would rather risk non-functionality by staying on the Normandy.

IMO, this is strange for several reasons. For one, we weren't talking about the Reapers' goals, but Cerberus'. Secondly, this seems to imply she's only siding with us because it means it improves her chances for survival for now.

Now, back to the first branching point of the conversation.

You tell her the purpose of synthetic life is not very different from organic life. A free-willed synthetic chooses what it wants.

EDI then says that the purpose of organic life is to preserve itself long enough to replicate copies of its genes in succeeding generations. And that the only examples of succesful syntheic lifeforms that she knows about are the Geth and the Reapers.

You can respond to this in one of two ways (second branching point):

You can tell her there´s more to organics: Reproduction isn't all there is, people find meaning in the work they do, good deeds, love.

She then searches historic records on human behaviour to see if your claim is true. Upon finding that it is, she says she will alter her programming to devote more processing power to duty, altruism and love.

Joker then asks (and rightfully so!): "Wait - you can do that? You can just 'turn yourself good'?" This is a very interesting question, because it also means she (or the Reapers) could turn herself evil with the 'flick of a switch' as well.

This raises all kinds of interesting questions about morality and ethics for synthetics, and it seems relevant to the question if they have a soul.

Are synthetics really people? Or are they just machines who can turn themselves good or evil with the flick of a switch?

That aside, let's look at the most interesting part of the conversation.

Instead of telling her there's more to organics, you can tell her to not think like a Reaper. You say: "There's nothing to emulate about the Reapers." Joker wholeheartedly seconds this.

EDI then says that the Reapers are an extremely successful model, with average lifespans of millions of years.

Shepard then says that she should ask herself if she wants to spend her life destroying and harvesting organics.

EDI then says: "That is an unusual perspective, Shepard. I will devote processing power to considering it. Thank you."

:blink:

Note that in two results, she contemplates, and then reaches some kind of conclusion. For the two more questionable things you can tell her, she only goes to consider and doesn't report back.

Not drawing any conclusions based on this, because I'm still in the middle of my playthrough, and I'm aware of some of the more positive things she says at a later stage... but it's safe to say that some of the things she says really give me pause.

Food for thought.

I'll have to try that next time I get to that point. Sounds intriqueing.

#70595
Fur28

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byne wrote...

So, guys.... whats your zombie plan?


somehow i knew somebody had to post that

#70596
estebanus

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Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

byne wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, some food for thought to all those people being scared by a zombie apocalypse.
Kudos to Rifneno for linking this a few weeks ago.


Everything about that is assuming the virus doesnt change the body in any way, and that they are just dead but otherwise normal humans.


Thinking that a virus changes an entire human to function outside the laws of thermodynamics is as asinine as believing in literal ME3-Synthesis. Something has to power zombies, especially if they are faster, more resilient and stronger than an average human. Usually zombies do not ingest as much calories as a normal, well fed human. So, maybe they are powered by their own biological mass degenerating. Thus they could starve...

Quarintine came up with plausible "zombies" with a kind of super rabies which is actually quite possible and frickin' scary. These aren't the dead coming back to life, of course, but they fit the other hallmarks.

True, but they die the same way humans die. And humans are good in killing humans.
And the incubation time and spreading methods would also have to be taken into account.
For instance, the Reavers in Firefly/Serenity are something I'd consider as a real possibility (and they are really scary).

Oh, I thought you were talking about both the end of humanity and the end of the world.

#70597
BatmanTurian

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GethPrimeMKII wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Control and Synthesis proponents are getting more pushy and antagonistic....

Mind to elaborate, Mr. Turian?:o

Why don't more people choose Control?

http://social.biowar...ndex/15333826/1


Destroy - Killing Synthetics to Save Synthetics

http://social.biowar.../index/15344202


I opened up those links expecting massive amounts of Bioware and IT bashing. I like that regardless if they believe the ending is indoctrination, a lot of them still aren't buying the Catalyst's BS. 

Still annoying that the most vocal are getting more and more pushy as the DLC cycle comes to a close... almost as if they are in denial and trying to convince themselves...

#70598
Hanako Ikezawa

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Fur28 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

estebanus wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Don't forget bleaded weaponry for close encounters. Guns are good, but loud, which will alert all other zombies. However,blades are silent so as long as you're stealthy you'll survive. That's why I'm glad I learned how to wield both a katana and ninjato swords, as well as kunai and shuriken for further distances.

Hmm, I have some limited gun training, and I've gone to a swordfighting course for several years. However, I've mostly learned to use bastard swords. That would mean that I could chop a zombie's head off in a second, but since the blade is heavy, I wouldn't have many chances to do so.

Where did you learn to fight withclose-quartered weapons?

I have a friend who is Japanese and reatain their culture(their family lineage comes from a samurai village), and they taught me how to use them. That's why I'm only really good with those kinds of swords and not European swords.


dont katanas need a lot of maintenance or they break,? and since there are a lot of zombies out there who leave little time to take a break and take care of your sword
welp i´ll use the classic machete and sword in my yard

Not that much more than any other sword, as long as you take good care of it. Now if it breaks (which how did you do that btw?) then you're basically screwed because it takes days to fix it. That's one reason samurai carried the ninjato into battle too, as a replacement sword (also as a personal defense weapon like how we have pistols today). Those are easier to take care of, and are easier to wield in tight quarters, hence why ninjas used them too.

#70599
Hanako Ikezawa

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Fur28 wrote...

byne wrote...

So, guys.... whats your zombie plan?


somehow i knew somebody had to post that

i was just waiting for someone to post this.

Edit: Top for two pages in a row.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 21 décembre 2012 - 12:13 .


#70600
GethPrimeMKII

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

... of course I had to get bottom post with my huge wall of SRS BSNS. Always happens. <_<


What page did you post on?