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[zigamortis]

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Restrider wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Control and Synthesis proponents are getting more pushy and antagonistic....

Mind to elaborate, Mr. Turian?

Why don't more people choose Control?

http://social.biowar...ndex/15333826/1


Destroy - Killing Synthetics to Save Synthetics

http://social.biowar.../index/15344202

I opened up those links expecting massive amounts of Bioware and IT bashing. I like that regardless if they believe the ending is indoctrination, a lot of them still aren't buying the Catalyst's BS. 

Still annoying that the most vocal are getting more and more pushy as the DLC cycle comes to a close... almost as if they are in denial and trying to convince themselves...

Please understand that my intent is not to be antagonistic. I simply care too much about the legitimacy of synthetic life to choose Destroy and ignore the other choices. I don't wish to make any enemies. I just have different priorities.

And the same for me, even if I took the endings literally, so we will never agree. I'm certain a large amount of people would say the same thing. This all simply promotes a cycle of controllers, synthesizers, and destroyers fighting over philisophical and moral dilemmas that are not cut and dry and depend on your own point-of-view, morals, and understanding of the universe's lore.

An authentic katana wouldn't break from use and it would get too dull either. a real katana from japan and from the era of samurai are very durable and don't really lose there edge.

[CosmicGnosis]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Please understand that my intent is not to be antagonistic. I simply care too much about the legitimacy of synthetic life to choose Destroy and ignore the other choices. I don't wish to make any enemies. I just have different priorities.

No worries.

I'd like you to consider the following, though:

IMO, the Reapers are simply exploiting the human weakness of always wanting to save everyone.

The dreams prepare you for this. In the dreams, you're hearing voices of dead companions, and you're chasing a child who, no matter how hard you try to help him, will always burn before your eyes. It's about reminding you of, and making you feel guilty for the people you couldn't save.

All of this is preparing you for the ending, where the Reapers are trying to sway you from the option that is least favourable to them, by telling you that your friends will die.

What's the number one reason non-destroyers pick their endings? They don't want to sacrifice EDI and the Geth. They want to save everyone. The Reapers are simply exploiting the human weakness of always wanting to save everyone (or at least as many as possible).

But the game (through dialogues with your squadmates) teaches you time and again that that is not always the best course of action.

The key is understanding that you can't always win and save everyone at the same time. As a military leader, sometimes you need to make the hard choices and sacrifice the few to save the many.

Garrus: If just one survivor is left standing at the end of the war, then the fight was worth it. But humans want to save everyone. In this war, that's not going to happen.

Shepard: If you'd saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one.

(Also: implying there are right and wrong choices!)

Salarian councilor: Sometimes Spectres have to make sacrifices. I hope you're ready to do that when the time comes.

Omega even made a point to explain this even better. It's a huge clue for understanding the ending:

Aria: Nyreen's code of ethics won't let her sit by if civilians are exposed. It's what makes her utterly predictable and easy to manipulate.

I think you should remember that the Reapers are extremely cunning and manipulative. They have brainwashed countless cycles' leaders into begging to be harvested. They do this by twisting your perception. They know how to manipulate organics, and humans are easy to manipulate either by a promise of power or by a promise of eternal peace and no more dead pals.

And that's how Bioware manipulates the player. They condition us to care for these characters, they reward us all throughout three games for choosing paragon options that create peace and harmony and ensure everybody survives. The whole point of the suicide mission was to keep as many people alive as possible. Even Omega rewards us for taking the paragon route at the reactor: even though we are prepared to sacrifice Aria and Nyreen for the many people of Omega, we can save everyone!

And then we come at the end, and it's a whole different ball game. These guys are ancient, savagely intelligent. They can influence the way our brains work in ways we don't even know. Don't even think to underestimate them. Go along with their suggestions, and you'll be in for a hell of a surprise:

Soldier:  But converting other life forms into Reapers... I can't wrap my head around that.
Garrus: Makes sense to me.  It ensures you never run out of cannon fodder. Eliminates any local resistance. And for every soldier you add, your enemy loses two: the one you converted, and his buddy on the other side who can't pull the trigger on a friend. (...)
Soldier: But the Reapers want to destroy us.
Garrus: And I have no intention of letting them. But If you don't respect your enemy's capabilities, you're in for one nasty surprise after another.

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 21 décembre 2012 - 01:13 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

zigamortis wrote...

An authentic katana wouldn't break from use and it would get too dull either. a real katana from japan and from the era of samurai are very durable and don't really lose there edge.

you quoted the wrong pyramid, but exactly.

[BatmanTurian]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

[CosmicGnosis]

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

It could also be irony. He meant it as a joke, but it actually can become reality.

[BatmanTurian]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

Reapers are as good as rabid dogs. You can't parley with a rabid dog.

[Rifneno]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

Me too.  And then, as soon as he turned his back, I'd stick a hydrogen bomb up his emergency induction port.

[BatmanTurian]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

It could also be irony. He meant it as a joke, but it actually can become reality.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[DoomsdayDevice]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

No, not immune, because power hungry people might go for control.

Nice line from Garrus. He's consistently convinced throughout the game that you can't aways save everyone, though. It comes up when you talk with him about the Citadel Coup, when you talk with him about the ruthless calculus of war, etcetera.

I kind of liked this one. (And IMO it touches upon the ridiculousness of the Reapers wanting peace)

Javik: The Sinril claimed to have found the path to eternal peace.
Garrus: So what happened?
Javik: The Dittakar preferred war, and wiped them out.
Garrus: I hope you guys had alcohol.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

Reapers are as good as rabid dogs. You can't parley with a rabid dog.

I was thinking more like Star Wars: Return of the Jedi with Shepard=Luke, Catalyst=Emperor, and Harbinger=Vader

[spotlessvoid]

Control and synthesis leave the Reapers and therefore endanger all organic life. Synthesis straight butchers organic life. So no offense, but I'm not risking all organic races for one synthetic race. I hear so much anti-humanist crap coming from the synthesis crowd, and so much egomaniacal hubris from the control thread, it's unnerving.
Destroy is the ONLY choice that permanently ends the Reaper threat. It also doesn't create an god emperor or rape all natural life.

I'd kill each Geth by hand if that's what it took. And I sided with Legion not knowing if the Quarians would survive. But dammit, it's one race of computers for the freedom of the galaxy. Out the ****ing proverbial airlock with them

[Fur28]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

only possible with enough Renegade/Paragon points..... Harby Squadmate:O

[Rifneno]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

It could also be irony. He meant it as a joke, but it actually can become reality.

Gonna need verification on that.  Sten?



Thanks, Sten.

[BansheeOwnage]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Control and synthesis leave the Reapers and therefore endanger all organic life. Synthesis straight butchers organic life. So no offense, but I'm not risking all organic races for one synthetic race. I hear so much anti-humanist crap coming from the synthesis crowd, and so much egomaniacal hubris from the control thread, it's unnerving.
Destroy is the ONLY choice that permanently ends the Reaper threat. It also doesn't create an god emperor or rape all natural life.

I'd kill each Geth by hand if that's what it took. And I sided with Legion not knowing if the Quarians would survive. But dammit, it's one race of computers for the freedom of the galaxy. Out the ****ing proverbial airlock with them

Not saying you forgot, but keep in mind the reapers also wipe out synthetic life every cycle.

[Bill Casey]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

Garrus: I'm starting to understand why the galaxy needs coldhearted dictators every now and then.

Shepard: They get things done?

Garrus: They don't give a damn about the consequences.

[DoomsdayDevice]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

Reapers are as good as rabid dogs. You can't parley with a rabid dog.

I was thinking more like Star Wars: Return of the Jedi with Shepard=Luke, Catalyst=Emperor, and Harbinger=Vader

Vader had once good in him. Harbinger, not so much. Especially not if he's made from Leviathans.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fur28 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

only possible with enough Renegade/Paragon points..... Harby Squadmate:O

And specific conditions like Geth-Quarian peace.

[zigamortis]

St. Shepard does have an awe-full nice ring to it.....

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

Gonna need verification on that.  Sten?



Thanks, Sten.

For someone who hates his way of life and everything his people stand for, you sure seem to like Sten a lot.

[spotlessvoid]

You don't risk the entire galaxy because you don't want to have to feel guilt. Anyone who sides with a robot race over the human race can start with themselves

[Hanako Ikezawa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Vader had once good in him. Harbinger, not so much. Especially not if he's made from Leviathans.

You know what I mean, Harbinger sacrifices himself to cripple the Catalyst, like *SPOILER ALERT* Greed does to Father at the end of FMA:B

[BatmanTurian]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

Reapers are as good as rabid dogs. You can't parley with a rabid dog.

I was thinking more like Star Wars: Return of the Jedi with Shepard=Luke, Catalyst=Emperor, and Harbinger=Vader

Interesting metaphor, but I prefer something you are familiar with.
Shepard=Edward  
Catalyst= Hoenheim
Harbinger= King Bradley
Reapers = the rest of the Homunculi

[Fur28]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This only works if you actually care about synthetics. There are people who don't. So does that mean that they are immune to the Reapers' influence?

Also, here's another line from Garrus:

"You're a peacemaker Shepard, a rare thing these days. Now if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

That was a joke you're using out of context. Garrus overwhelmingly supports destroy as do all of your crew-mates and your superiors.

I don't know. If I could legitimately talk Harbinger into being an ally by showing him the errors in the Catalyst's logic, I'd do it.

only possible with enough Renegade/Paragon points..... Harby Squadmate:O

And specific conditions like Geth-Quarian peace.

there where specific conditions?
i just did everything and always got peace
edit: Top

Modifié par Fur28, 21 décembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Gonna need verification on that.  Sten?



Thanks, Sten.

For someone who hates his way of life and everything his people stand for, you sure seem to like Sten a lot.

What, because I thought that would be a good time for the Sten-No meme?  I leave that qunari douchebag to starve to death in his cage usually.