80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

Home run yes and let's just say Kai Leng did not see. Me pull a kal Reeger on his ***, and two new weapons are aswome.

[Home run MF]

he he, good to know hope they put them in MP soon

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Did you say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] ?! (Sorry, in joke.)

Oh god, trade chat flashbacks.

I didnt even know you played WoW, Arian.

I did, once, a looong time ago. Ran a guild on Thorium Brotherhood. Got up to over 200 members pretty quickly, organized it so that it would stay stable even without me. That didn't happen. Guild started to collapse, I felt guilty about it, left WoW not long after from boredom with the game, seeking to escape my responsibilities and decaying friendships as the guildmaster.

[Arian Dynas]

smokingotter1 wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

cdtrk65 wrote...

Wiki about A brave new world...

http://en.wikipedia....Brave_New_World

I know I cite a lot of literature... but I have not read everything... from the ahem* here is a quote from a cliff notes essay on the ending to Brave New World:

"Huxley (author) emphasizes the necessity of resisting the power of tyranny by
keeping one's mind active and free. The individual freedoms may be
limited in the modern world, Huxley admits, but they must be exercised
constantly or be lost."
(emphasis mine). Big clue here guys.

Otter - I really like all of your literature based clues to IT. I think examining themes like these might eventually be the best evidence we have. Have you written them all up somewhere or do I have to cmb through 4500+ pages to find them all?

I've been going through the last 4000 pages of IT forum looking for useful tidbits, but also bookmarking some of my best posts, I'll share them with you when I'm done

Some of the posts I've written about (Arian and Simon_says also have alot of useful stuff to add about literature)

Recommended readings:

• Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes
• Dante's Divine Comedy
• The play "the Crucible" the important part is the end message and John's trial
• Brave New World (did not read this one)
• Watch the Matrix
• Read up on Sigmued Freud's ID/EGO/Superego
• And for my personal take on IT: Overlay-Time hypothesis the movies Inception and Momento (both works by Christopher Nolan of the Dark Knight Trilogy) will help

I did my bookmarking on my other computer so I'll have to bookmark this so I can send you the links that I bookmarked.

Bookmarkception.

*Sigh*

Said it before, and I will say it again. The Crucible is not related to The Crucible, the play does not have exclusive use of the word, and having read it myself previously, there are only tangiental connections at best.

Dante's Divine Comedy, the section I am assuming you are referencing, being Inferno, is related once again, only tangientally, with the concepts you are discussing (Cerberus, Dis, Charon and several others.) being references to the Greek classics, which any well educated man in Aligheri's time knew by heart. In other words, skip Dante if you want to understand the references he is talking about, and instead, bone up on your classic Greek Myth.

Of course, if you want to discuss Hobbesian Philosophy and it's connections to the Reapers (Hobbe's Leviathan) then it would be better to grab Simon_Says, who is more familiar with Hobbes than I. (My philosophers of choice remain Diogenes of Sinope, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and Rene Descartes)

The Freudian interpretation, while apropos, is not entirely correct of course. The Id usually is baser desires, though, the connection could perhaps be made that it desires to wrest control from the Ego and Superego. (Shepard and Anderson respectively.)

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 08 août 2012 - 03:41 .

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Did you say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] ?! (Sorry, in joke.)

Oh god, trade chat flashbacks.

I didnt even know you played WoW, Arian.

I did, once, a looong time ago. Ran a guild on Thorium Brotherhood. Got up to over 200 members pretty quickly, organized it so that it would stay stable even without me. That didn't happen. Guild started to collapse, I felt guilty about it, left WoW not long after from boredom with the game, seeking to escape my responsibilities and decaying friendships as the guildmaster.

Well, if you ever start playing again, hit me up on Azjol-Nerub. It'd be nice to actually play with someone again. My guild fell apart too.

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Did you say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] ?! (Sorry, in joke.)

Oh god, trade chat flashbacks.

I didnt even know you played WoW, Arian.

I did, once, a looong time ago. Ran a guild on Thorium Brotherhood. Got up to over 200 members pretty quickly, organized it so that it would stay stable even without me. That didn't happen. Guild started to collapse, I felt guilty about it, left WoW not long after from boredom with the game, seeking to escape my responsibilities and decaying friendships as the guildmaster.

Well, if you ever start playing again, hit me up on Azjol-Nerub. It'd be nice to actually play with someone again. My guild fell apart too.

*shudder* nooooo way. I am so done with WoW I can't even describe it. Not getting sucked back into THAT black hole of infinity, no thank you!

[masster blaster]

So um what do you want to speculate now guys, and ladys?

[TheConstantOne]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Being in control of something does not mean you literally control it as a puppet or an extention of yourself. You can also control someone through brainwashing and telling him what to do. The brainwashed individual is still in control of his own body, he simply feels the desire to obey his master.

I agree.  In fact, I think we should take a moment to completely consider what this implies.

The Child AI claims to have controlled the Illusive Man just as it claims to control the Reapers.  Now, it has been stated before (I just had a chat with Salient_Archer about this actually) that the Reapers are each a nation unto themselves.  However, this doesn't preclude them from having a preprogrammed purpose that guides their collective efforts.  If the Child AI is the element of indoctrination in Shepard's mind, which I and many others believe, then this view of control makes perfect sense and makes its statements about controlling TIM and the Reapers a misleading half-truth.

But why even tell the half-truth?  Because the AI wants to make the Control option seem like literal control.  It wants to make Shepard believe that his/her resolve will dominate the Reapers.  With the knowledge of what control **actually** means in the sense of indoctrination, we can view the epilogue scene with a new lens.  The newly formed Shepard AI wants to use the Reapers to bring peace and order to the galaxy.  In other words, Reaper-Shepard wants to prevent further conflict among the species of the galaxy.  This goal is essentially identical to what the current "Catalyst" tells you the Reapers are doing: they are Reaping to establish peace between species, namely synthetics and organics." 

The Control option does not allow direct control over the Reapers.  Shepard's goal of peace is the same as the goal given by the Child AI.  So, if the child only "controls things" by giving them a purpose of peace, and the Shepard AI only controls things via suggesting a purpose nearly identical to what the Reapers already had...what problem is Shepard solving?

Nothing is being solved.  Using the Reapers to achieve peace is the same means to an end that the Child is using.  Shepard choosing the Control option is thus aligning methods and intent with the Reapers: the very consequence of indoctrination.

[smokingotter1]

Arian Dynas wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

cdtrk65 wrote...

Wiki about A brave new world...

http://en.wikipedia....Brave_New_World

I know I cite a lot of literature... but I have not read everything... from the ahem* here is a quote from a cliff notes essay on the ending to Brave New World:

"Huxley (author) emphasizes the necessity of resisting the power of tyranny by
keeping one's mind active and free. The individual freedoms may be
limited in the modern world, Huxley admits, but they must be exercised
constantly or be lost."
(emphasis mine). Big clue here guys.

Otter - I really like all of your literature based clues to IT. I think examining themes like these might eventually be the best evidence we have. Have you written them all up somewhere or do I have to cmb through 4500+ pages to find them all?

I've been going through the last 4000 pages of IT forum looking for useful tidbits, but also bookmarking some of my best posts, I'll share them with you when I'm done

Some of the posts I've written about (Arian and Simon_says also have alot of useful stuff to add about literature)

Recommended readings:

• Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes
• Dante's Divine Comedy
• The play "the Crucible" the important part is the end message and John's trial
• Brave New World (did not read this one)
• Watch the Matrix
• Read up on Sigmued Freud's ID/EGO/Superego
• And for my personal take on IT: Overlay-Time hypothesis the movies Inception and Momento (both works by Christopher Nolan of the Dark Knight Trilogy) will help

I did my bookmarking on my other computer so I'll have to bookmark this so I can send you the links that I bookmarked.

Bookmarkception.

*Sigh*

Said it before, and I will say it again. The Crucible is not related to The Crucible, the play does not have exclusive use of the word, and having read it myself previously, there are only tangiental connections at best.

Dante's Divine Comedy, the section I am assuming you are referencing, being Inferno, is related once again, only tangientally, with the concepts you are discussing (Cerberus, Dis, Charon and several others.) being references to the Greek classics, which any well educated man in Aligheri's time knew by heart. In other words, skip Dante if you want to understand the references he is talking about, and instead, bone up on your classic Greek Myth.

I disagree. The climax of The Crucible has everything to do with what happens in the decision chamber. The last time we see Shepard in reality he's about to get a point blank shot in the face by Harbinger's beam thus begins Shepard's trial.

Since the decision chamber is an overlay my opinion Shepard is given the same option that John is given in the Crucible to sacrifice his integrity or go to his death. Same thing is being offered to Shepard. Starchild heavily implies that by choosing destroy Shepard will die. Hell Shepard is carrying around a carnifex which is roman for executioner. In destroy Shepard chooses death over indoctrination in the same way John chooses to be executed over having his confession nailed to the church wall.

It's applicable.

[smokingotter1]

I killed the cricket, ok drank some sleepytime tea, about to hit the sack... happy speculating peoples.

[Home run MF]

I'm out too, good night masster

[masster blaster]

Night otter of redwall. Defender of otters, and an ITer.

[masster blaster]

Night Home run.

[Lyria]

byne wrote...



Bull****.

I know so because my old laptop played Harbinger's sound file saying "I WILL SHOW YOU TRUE POWER" whenever I plugged it in.

How did you make your computer do that? That is awesome.

[byne]

protognosis wrote...

byne wrote...



Bull****.

I know so because my old laptop played Harbinger's sound file saying "I WILL SHOW YOU TRUE POWER" whenever I plugged it in.

How did you make your computer do that? That is awesome.

Just dowloaded all of Harby's sound files and messed with the sound preferences.

Anyhow, I'm going to bed. Super tired.

[TJBartlemus]

protognosis wrote...

byne wrote...



Bull****.

I know so because my old laptop played Harbinger's sound file saying "I WILL SHOW YOU TRUE POWER" whenever I plugged it in.

How did you make your computer do that? That is awesome.

It's cause he practices the arts of space magic. Beware his awesome power. 

[TJBartlemus]

 Why everyone going to bed? Going to sleep is overrated.  For those interested in speculations...check this out.

http://social.biowar.../index/13474338

[masster blaster]

I am still here, and I posted alot of post that help IT/ prove IT a bit.

[masster blaster]

Night byne.

[masster blaster]

Okay everyone Blaster is going to go lie down. Oh and if you are lukinh here feel free to post things that we can speculate on, and questions.

Also if you are new to BSN/IT, then go to the front page and check out what byne has on his post.

And if you want to play catch if you have missed anything. I advice you to go 5 pages back and read from there, but that's up to you to decide.

[Simon_Says]

So I'm back. Caught up with the thread.

I got to say. I'm glad that Heretic isn't being an ass any more. I'm not glad that he has a lot of his facts wrong. Look...

-The reapers have a fluid sense of identity similar to the geth. Harbinger switches between singular and plural first person plenty of times. Compare Legion to the geth as a whole. It's probably a similar deal with the reapers.
-The Morning War does not validate the Starbrat's argument, the geth say the quarians struck first (plausible) and yet when given the opportunity the geth didn't wipe our their creators, instead opting for an isolationist policy and academic study of organics rather than war. It was directly the reapers' influence that the Heretic Geth began their campaigns against organic life.
-You have no actual evidence that the catalyst's creators created the Citadel. It's not an impossibility but there's no evidence for or against it. It's also largely irrelevant. Also, a group of protheans successfully modified the Citadel's systems before, what to say previous cycles didn't make other modifications?
-The reaper cycles are not natural selection. It's artificial selection. And considering the way the genophage and the treatment of synthetic life in the ME galaxy were framed, it looks to me that Bioware is trying to tell us that enforcing artificial selection is wrong when intorducing responsible natural seleciton is available.
-The Catalyst does make sense, from a particular point of view. Not that it's moral or correct in its judgement, just that it makes sense. Please check the Selfish Meme Theory in my sig for my explanation how.
-Paul Grayson was a reaper puppet. He was fully aware of what was going on but couldn't effectively resist since the reapers had essentially hijacked his nervous system. Honestly, that couldn't have been classical indoctrination a la Saren/Benezia/TIM etc. That was huskification.
-IT wouldn't be 'resetting' the ending. The events that occur in Shepard's head still matter. IT is not about how the ending was a dream. There are variations where dreams aren't even involved. No, IT is about how the ending of ME3 is Shepard facing their most important battle not in a physical battlefield but a mental one, with what's at stake being Shepard's soul, and the souls of every free thinking lifeform in the galaxy now and forever. Post-ending DLC would be great, but with IT our Shepards would have already won or failed the most important battle in the war.


Also, Arian, why did you say I'm an authority on Hobbes? Cause no sir I aint. I just once brought up how Thane referenced Hobbes in ME2 to explain Rakhana's Malthusian Catastrophe. Hell I even thought he was misattributing the quote when I brought it up.

Oh, and something weird to view and ponder.

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

There is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy weakness in falling for your enemy's propaganda.

My Shepard didn't fall for any propaganda. He just became the new god of the galaxy.

"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent one." - VoltraireVoltaire

I preffered the New Dark Age ending myself.

Kahlil Gibran said...

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors, But today we kneel only to truth"

Modifié par Simon_Says, 08 août 2012 - 05:47 .

[plfranke]

what server are you on byne? I'm about to hit my first 85 on kiljaden

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Where is the weird part in the video Simon? Besides the part where the soldiers are half-asked running towards the beam, the mako exploding, Shepard asking for an evac, the lack of reinforcements coming off the Normandy, Harbinger speaking, Shepard getting shot...Why do I even bother. Is there anything significantly weird about that scene when Javik is in it? I didn't really notice anything.

[Simon_Says]

It's in the title what you should be looking at: Javik. Makes me start to understand why people think the Beam Run was also part of a dream.

[BlazingZephyr]

Simon_Says wrote...

It's in the title what you should be looking at: Javik. Makes me start to understand why people think the Beam Run was also part of a dream.

Dammit, now I'm gonna keep watching this over and over. Is it because he even gives a sh*t about his injuries? I'd imagine that he would stand up and unload a clip or two at Harby.