80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Because letting the quarians murder every single geth, who were NEVER the aggressors in their conflict, is clearly the better choice.

It's not about who's the agressor in this conflict. I agree that the Quarians are the bad guys.

It's about the Geth being compromised. Not about 'who do you like better'.

If they're compromised, why did Legion, clearly the most compromised of all of them, fight against the Reapers?

Legion doesn't know he's compromised. (Just like everyone else who is indoctrinated) He does everything with the best of intentions. The key here is that, once again, we're using the Reapers' gifts. It's all in the name of peace between synthetics and organics, but by using the Reaper code, we pave the road to hell with good intentions.

My theory is that the Reaper code in the Geth will rewrite itself over time. (We know that it can) At some point, the Geth who are uploaded into the suits of the Quarians, will take control of the Quarian bodies.

Right.  Completely sabotaging their own plans in Rannoch was the Reaper's own work for their dastardly master plan to assume direct control of some quarian nerve stim programs.  Seems legit.

Yeah and if the Geth are compromised (which is never even hinted at or implied, I for one have fate that Legion knows what he is doing with that code) then why did they not turn on us in the final battle above Earth. If they turned upon us there any small hope we had would be utterly and completely crushed.

The way i see the Reaper code is like the Thanix cannon. We dont use Sovereigns gun, we studied it and understood how it worked, creating our own version of it, making it our tehcnology. That is waht I think Legion did with the Reaper code.

In fact that the Geth are not instantly put under control of the Reapers in the final battle shows that the code has indeed been altered as the Reapers no longer holds any control over them. Oh and the "there will be no more compromise with the Old Machines" quote.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Because letting the quarians murder every single geth, who were NEVER the aggressors in their conflict, is clearly the better choice.

It's not about who's the agressor in this conflict. I agree that the Quarians are the bad guys.

It's about the Geth being compromised. Not about 'who do you like better'.

If they're compromised, why did Legion, clearly the most compromised of all of them, fight against the Reapers?

Legion doesn't know he's compromised. (Just like everyone else who is indoctrinated) He does everything with the best of intentions. The key here is that, once again, we're using the Reapers' gifts. It's all in the name of peace between synthetics and organics, but by using the Reaper code, we pave the road to hell with good intentions.

My theory is that the Reaper code in the Geth will rewrite itself over time. (We know that it can) At some point, the Geth who are uploaded into the suits of the Quarians, will take control of the Quarian bodies.

Right.  Completely sabotaging their own plans in Rannoch was the Reaper's own work for their dastardly master plan to assume direct control of some quarian nerve stim programs.  Seems legit.

Yeah, take out two enemy factions by turning both of them to your side, with the added surprise of being completely trusted by their allies.

But they dident, in the final battle, the final battle the Reapers forced might I add, the Quarians and Geth are utterly loyal allies.

Beyond that said "master plan" is utterly flawed in the fact that had Shepard not interferred the Quarians would have been wiped out, which would go against the entire "preserve everything" policy the Reapers supposedly has. Hell even with Shepard there the chances are good the Quarian or Geth dont walk out of there.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Yeah, take out two enemy factions by turning both of them to your side, with the added surprise of being completely trusted by their allies.

Envy would be so proud.

[Rifneno]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Yeah and if the Geth are compromised (which is never even hinted at or implied, I for one have fate that Legion knows what he is doing with that code) then why did they not turn on us in the final battle above Earth. If they turned upon us there any small hope we had would be utterly and completely crushed.

The way i see the Reaper code is like the Thanix cannon. We dont use Sovereigns gun, we studied it and understood how it worked, creating our own version of it, making it our tehcnology. That is waht I think Legion did with the Reaper code.

In fact that the Geth are not instantly put under control of the Reapers in the final battle shows that the code has indeed been altered as the Reapers no longer holds any control over them. Oh and the "there will be no more compromise with the Old Machines" quote.

QFT.  The geth are fine.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Because letting the quarians murder every single geth, who were NEVER the aggressors in their conflict, is clearly the better choice.

It's not about who's the agressor in this conflict. I agree that the Quarians are the bad guys.

It's about the Geth being compromised. Not about 'who do you like better'.

If they're compromised, why did Legion, clearly the most compromised of all of them, fight against the Reapers?

Legion doesn't know he's compromised. (Just like everyone else who is indoctrinated) He does everything with the best of intentions. The key here is that, once again, we're using the Reapers' gifts. It's all in the name of peace between synthetics and organics, but by using the Reaper code, we pave the road to hell with good intentions.

My theory is that the Reaper code in the Geth will rewrite itself over time. (We know that it can) At some point, the Geth who are uploaded into the suits of the Quarians, will take control of the Quarian bodies.

Right.  Completely sabotaging their own plans in Rannoch was the Reaper's own work for their dastardly master plan to assume direct control of some quarian nerve stim programs.  Seems legit.

Yeah and if the Geth are compromised (which is never even hinted at or implied, I for one have fate that Legion knows what he is doing with that code) then why did they not turn on us in the final battle above Earth. If they turned upon us there any small hope we had would be utterly and completely crushed.

The way i see the Reaper code is like the Thanix cannon. We dont use Sovereigns gun, we studied it and understood how it worked, creating our own version of it, making it our tehcnology. That is waht I think Legion did with the Reaper code.

In fact that the Geth are not instantly put under control of the Reapers in the final battle shows that the code has indeed been altered as the Reapers no longer holds any control over them. Oh and the "there will be no more compromise with the Old Machines" quote.

Yeah, that is what we keep telling ourselves. But Reaper code can rewrite itself.

The entire Legion using Reaper code / self-sacrifice thing has all the hallmarks of the synthesis ending. It is the same in every single way.

I love Legion just as much as the next person, but I believe Bioware left some consequences of our choices for the next game. The Reaper code rewrites itself over time, that's why nothing happens at Earth yet. It's the same thing as the Krogan genophage. Any consequences will be seen in the next game.

[Rifneno]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, that is what we keep telling ourselves. But Reaper code can rewrite itself.

lolwut.  Are you talking about during the geth consensus mission?  Where the geth were still hooked up to an actual, live Reaper?  Big mystery why the code would come back.

[Restrider]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Restrider wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
--snip--

So... what weapon do you have in the decision chamber? Is it a Predator or a Carnifex?

I know that there is some weapon swapping, but with what weapon do you shoot the Guardian to trigger Refuse?

The Carnifex. It only turns into a Predator when shooting the tube.

I've heard that a lot and checked it for myself and have to disagree here.
In this link you always see the Carnifex as far as I can tell. Though you can hear a Predator here.

Here a few images to compare:

First of all a Predator:



Second of all a Carnifex:



Now the exact scene, where the Predator shots can be heard (note the timestamp, the link above is the same video):



It is still a Carnifex though making Predator noises. There is no Predator in that scene, unless it is during the time, where we see Shepard's back and cannot really identify the weapon (unless someone fly-cammed and confirmed it).

So, in my point of view, there is only a Carnifex with strange noises there.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...


The entire Legion using Reaper code / self-sacrifice thing has all the hallmarks of the synthesis ending. It is the same in every single way.

I love Legion just as much as the next person, but I believe Bioware left some consequences of our choices for the next game. The Reaper code rewrites itself over time, that's why nothing happens at Earth yet. It's the same thing as the Krogan genophage. Any consequences will be seen in the next game.

Legion's sacrifice makes all organics cyborgs? Cool.

I agree that the next game, with both Krogan and Geth, will show the consequences for good or ill.

[Dwailing]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, that is what we keep telling ourselves. But Reaper code can rewrite itself.

lolwut.  Are you talking about during the geth consensus mission?  Where the geth were still hooked up to an actual, live Reaper?  Big mystery why the code would come back.

That IS a good point.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


But they dident, in the final battle, the final battle the Reapers forced might I add, the Quarians and Geth are utterly loyal allies.

Beyond that said "master plan" is utterly flawed in the fact that had Shepard not interferred the Quarians would have been wiped out, which would go against the entire "preserve everything" policy the Reapers supposedly has. Hell even with Shepard there the chances are good the Quarian or Geth dont walk out of there.

I thought you guys didn't believe the catalyst's motives.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Beyond that said "master plan" is utterly flawed in the fact that had Shepard not interferred the Quarians would have been wiped out, which would go against the entire "preserve everything" policy the Reapers supposedly has. Hell even with Shepard there the chances are good the Quarian or Geth dont walk out of there.

The entire 'preserve everything' policy has been shown to be nonsense in so many ways.

My point is that the so-called 'optimal solution' could very well turn out to be the worst option, just like synthesis.

Use Reaper solution to create peace between synthetics and organics? Check
Create a situation in which synthetics live in symbiotic relation with organics? Check
Take this option because you don't want to kill either of your friends? Check
Self sacrifice? Check

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 21 décembre 2012 - 11:45 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, that is what we keep telling ourselves. But Reaper code can rewrite itself.

lolwut.  Are you talking about during the geth consensus mission?  Where the geth were still hooked up to an actual, live Reaper?  Big mystery why the code would come back.

That IS a good point.

The question is if the Reaper is needed for the code to rewrite itself.

[Restrider]

On the Reaper Code topic:

What if it's not a super-nifty-secret plan?
What if the Reaper Code lingers in the Geth Consensus and slowly alters their perception and views?
Compare it to the synthetic equivalent of indoctrination that happened aboard the Derelict Reaper?
I guess it is that what DD is trying to explain.
Personally I am not of this opinion and tend more to the reverse-engineering aspect.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Restrider wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Restrider wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
--snip--

So... what weapon do you have in the decision chamber? Is it a Predator or a Carnifex?

I know that there is some weapon swapping, but with what weapon do you shoot the Guardian to trigger Refuse?

The Carnifex. It only turns into a Predator when shooting the tube.

I've heard that a lot and checked it for myself and have to disagree here.
In this link you always see the Carnifex as far as I can tell. Though you can hear a Predator here.

Here a few images to compare:

First of all a Predator:



Second of all a Carnifex:



Now the exact scene, where the Predator shots can be heard (note the timestamp, the link above is the same video):



It is still a Carnifex though making Predator noises. There is no Predator in that scene, unless it is during the time, where we see Shepard's back and cannot really identify the weapon (unless someone fly-cammed and confirmed it).

So, in my point of view, there is only a Carnifex with strange noises there.

No, it was confirmed by flycam, it turns into a Predator during the explosion.

To be more precise: it renders both models. You can see both the Carnifex AND the Predator rendered at the same time, although the Predator is more visible.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 21 décembre 2012 - 11:39 .

[Restrider]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, that is what we keep telling ourselves. But Reaper code can rewrite itself.

lolwut.  Are you talking about during the geth consensus mission?  Where the geth were still hooked up to an actual, live Reaper?  Big mystery why the code would come back.

Btw, that server was shut-down in the end of that mission, wasn't it?

[byne]

Restrider wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Restrider wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
--snip--

So... what weapon do you have in the decision chamber? Is it a Predator or a Carnifex?

I know that there is some weapon swapping, but with what weapon do you shoot the Guardian to trigger Refuse?

The Carnifex. It only turns into a Predator when shooting the tube.

I've heard that a lot and checked it for myself and have to disagree here.
In this link you always see the Carnifex as far as I can tell. Though you can hear a Predator here.

Here a few images to compare:

First of all a Predator:



Second of all a Carnifex:



Now the exact scene, where the Predator shots can be heard (note the timestamp, the link above is the same video):


It is still a Carnifex though making Predator noises. There is no Predator in that scene, unless it is during the time, where we see Shepard's back and cannot really identify the weapon (unless someone fly-cammed and confirmed it).

So, in my point of view, there is only a Carnifex with strange noises there.

It becomes a predator when the explosion happens. People have flycammed it, I believe. Plus you can tell its outline changes if you look carefully.

[Dwailing]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, that is what we keep telling ourselves. But Reaper code can rewrite itself.

lolwut.  Are you talking about during the geth consensus mission?  Where the geth were still hooked up to an actual, live Reaper?  Big mystery why the code would come back.

That IS a good point.

The question is if the Reaper is needed for the code to rewrite itself.

And that is something we never get to know.  Shepard asks that one asari he gives the code fragment to to be careful with it, but it's never said in the game whether a Reaper is necessary for Reaper code to replicate.

[Restrider]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...


No, it was confirmed by flycam, it turns into a Predator during the explosion.

To be more precise: it renders both models. You can see both the Carnifex AND the Predator rendered at the same time, although the Predator is more visible.

If that is true, I would consider it as a glitch. Let's be honest, there are glitches and not everything is IT proof.

[Rifneno]

Restrider wrote...

On the Reaper Code topic:

What if it's not a super-nifty-secret plan?
What if the Reaper Code lingers in the Geth Consensus and slowly alters their perception and views?
Compare it to the synthetic equivalent of indoctrination that happened aboard the Derelict Reaper?
I guess it is that what DD is trying to explain.
Personally I am not of this opinion and tend more to the reverse-engineering aspect.

There's people who think "what if" scenarios are an acceptable reason for genocide.  We call them "templars."

[DoomsdayDevice]

Carnifex becomes Predator

[Dwailing]

Restrider wrote...

On the Reaper Code topic:

What if it's not a super-nifty-secret plan?
What if the Reaper Code lingers in the Geth Consensus and slowly alters their perception and views?
Compare it to the synthetic equivalent of indoctrination that happened aboard the Derelict Reaper?
I guess it is that what DD is trying to explain.
Personally I am not of this opinion and tend more to the reverse-engineering aspect.

Same here.  In fact, I'm not even sure if the code was reverse-engineered.  My thoughts on the matter are that the upgrades the Reapers made to the geth were just that, upgrades.  Modifications that anyone could make that weren't exclusively Reaper in nature.  Now, I do think that they Reapers probably manipulated those upgrades while they were connected with the geth.  However, are the upgrades themselves bad?  Probably not.

[Rifneno]

Restrider wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...


No, it was confirmed by flycam, it turns into a Predator during the explosion.

To be more precise: it renders both models. You can see both the Carnifex AND the Predator rendered at the same time, although the Predator is more visible.

If that is true, I would consider it as a glitch. Let's be honest, there are glitches and not everything is IT proof.

And you'd be wrong.  The game is programmed to load the predator's model into the system RAM when you go to destroy.  Only destroy.  It's intentional.

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah, that is what we keep telling ourselves. But Reaper code can rewrite itself.

lolwut.  Are you talking about during the geth consensus mission?  Where the geth were still hooked up to an actual, live Reaper?  Big mystery why the code would come back.

That IS a good point.

The question is if the Reaper is needed for the code to rewrite itself.

Yeah.

I'm just seeing some patterns here. I know my opinion isn't popular, and I'm not 100% on it, but there's too much in the way of being completely similar to synthesis for me to ignore it.

[Dwailing]

Restrider wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...


No, it was confirmed by flycam, it turns into a Predator during the explosion.

To be more precise: it renders both models. You can see both the Carnifex AND the Predator rendered at the same time, although the Predator is more visible.

If that is true, I would consider it as a glitch. Let's be honest, there are glitches and not everything is IT proof.

It might be a glitch, but the question is, why use the Predator noise in the first place?  The Carnifex noise is awesome on it's own, it doesn't need Predator sound effects overlayed on it to give it the punch for that scene.  That would be like overlaying the sound of a Beretta on a Desert Eagle being fired.

[paxxton]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@DoomsdayDevice: Are you going to cause trouble today?

When do I ever cause trouble?

It's a joke. Based on your BSN name today seems like a perfect day to start.