80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

lmao, talking badger on TV right now. Prince Caspian, I think.

Honey?  Or one of those... lesser badgers?

Different from the one in your picture.

[Dwailing]

Rifneno wrote...

Speaking of the geth, I noticed something. When Legion shows "this is a single geth unit, this is 10 geth networked, this is a single geth with the upgrades"... the first two are blue, the last one is red. Red is the good one once again.

Yeah, I noticed that as well.

[Rifneno]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

lmao, talking badger on TV right now. Prince Caspian, I think.

Honey?  Or one of those... lesser badgers?

Different from the one in your picture.

Pfft.  Lesser badgers.  They can't even kill a lion by ripping off its genitals.

[Andromidius]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

I am not sure if this was brought up, or proven wrong, and I apologize in advance if it is but, at the 23:42 mark of smudboy's video Mass Effect 3: Bookends of Destruction part 5, YouTube user Devilmingy pointed out: "By the way, where did that rise in the center (that Shepard and Anderson are leaning on) come from? Flycam can show it rising up from the floor after Shepard opens the arms, but why? Just to have something for the two to lean on in the last moments?"

Again, maybe it is nothing, and I apologize in advance once again for bringing it up if that is the case.

I'll respond, since everyone missed this. We did notice that, and I think it's one of the stronger dream elements in that section, as little things like that tend to happen in dreams a lot. Don't apologize for posting stuff!

Smudboy makes me shake my head in dispair.  He sees all the things weird and wrong in ME3, but refuses the explaination about them.  Instead he'd rather have a **** and whine about 'bad writing' rather then think 'oh hey, maybe this is supposed to be symbolic, due to it being a hallucination'.  And then he insults anyone who disagrees with him.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

lmao, talking badger on TV right now. Prince Caspian, I think.

Honey?  Or one of those... lesser badgers?

Different from the one in your picture.

Pfft.  Lesser badgers.  They can't even kill a lion by ripping off its genitals.

They're awesome though. He looks like this:

[BleedingUranium]

Doomsday, you keep passing over several important points:

-Legion disagrees with the decision the Geth made to accept the Reapers' help, which they only did because they panicked.

-The Reaper code is not Reaper tech any more than our Thanix cannons or the Prothean mass relay on Ilos.

-The Geth never turn on us at any point after uploading the code, even during the battle over Earth. Just like Vigil can't be a Reaper creation because he single handedly led to Sovereign's death and the delay of the invasion for 2.5 years.

-It would be as thematically bad as the literal endings, destroying everything we've learned about the Geth, Quarians, and synthetic life in general, and turning a squadmate against us, which otherwise only happens when Shepard did something very bad.

[GethPrimeMKII]

I've never seen a smudboy vid on ME3. Given his rep I think I'll keep it that way

[lex0r11]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

lmao, talking badger on TV right now. Prince Caspian, I think.

Honey?  Or one of those... lesser badgers?

Different from the one in your picture.

Pfft.  Lesser badgers.  They can't even kill a lion by ripping off its genitals.

Rif is part of an organization like the Thalmor for their Badger Dominion.

[Andromidius]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've never seen a smudboy vid on ME3. Given his rep I think I'll keep it that way

He's incredibly nitpicky, complains about everything, declares everything he disagrees with/doesn't understand is 'stupid' and repeatedly ****es about weapon bugs during cutscenes.  That's pretty much it, and he's done a LOT of long videos on Mass Effect.

[Rifneno]

lex0r11 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

lmao, talking badger on TV right now. Prince Caspian, I think.

Honey?  Or one of those... lesser badgers?

Different from the one in your picture.

Pfft.  Lesser badgers.  They can't even kill a lion by ripping off its genitals.

Rif is part of an organization like the Thalmor for their Badger Dominion.

We don't need an organization.  We are each a nation.  Independent.  Free of all weakness.  You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence.

[BleedingUranium]

Andromidius wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've never seen a smudboy vid on ME3. Given his rep I think I'll keep it that way

He's incredibly nitpicky, complains about everything, declares everything he disagrees with/doesn't understand is 'stupid' and repeatedly ****es about weapon bugs during cutscenes.  That's pretty much it, and he's done a LOT of long videos on Mass Effect.

He's doing exactly what Bioware didn't expect: seeing all the "problems", but not ever thinking about them. I'm sick of people expecting everything explained to them as if they were five years old. Learn to f*cking think.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

We don't need an organization.  We are each a nation.  Independent.  Free of all weakness.  You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence.

But you're all very good at 'grasping' the 'natures' of our existances?

[DoomsdayDevice]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Doomsday, you keep passing over several important points:


-Legion disagrees with the decision the Geth made to accept the Reapers' help, which they only did because they panicked.

-The Reaper code is not Reaper tech any more than our Thanix cannons or the Prothean mass relay on Ilos.

-The Geth never turn on us at any point after uploading the code, even during the battle over Earth. Just like Vigil can't be a Reaper creation because he single handedly led to Sovereign's death and the delay of the invasion for 2.5 years.

-It would be as thematically bad as the literal endings, destroying everything we've learned about the Geth, Quarians, and synthetic life in general, and turning a squadmate against us, which otherwise only happens when Shepard did something very bad.

No, really, I keep addressing those points over and over.

If anything, people are ignoring my points.

Ad 1: Whether Legion agrees or disagrees with the Geth decision to join the Reapers isn't important. The Geth operate on consensus. That means if individual Geth programs have been rewritten, they will start influencing the consensus. If a significant part has been compromised, the Geth consensus as a whole will reach different conclusions than before. Does it matter if Legion agrees when a majority of the Geth have been compromised?

Ad 2: Reaper code can't be fully eradicated, and it rewrites itself. Even if you want to ignore that, the problem of Reaper-tech derived tech is that it's tech that our enemy has a greater understanding of. They want us to base our tech on theirs, so they can control it, even if it doesn't have inherent indoctrinating capabilities.

Ad 3: We have never seen the consequences of major decisions in the same game that we made them. You might as well say choosing synthesis has no bad consequences because it's not being shown. If I am right, and the Reaper code rewrites itself slowly over time, then we would be in for a major suprise because we completely trust the two factions.

Ad 4. I don't agree with that conclusion at all. It changes nothing about synthetic life in general. It doesn't invalidate it. The problem is not synthetic life, the problem is the Reapers messing with the cycles' synthetics. The problem is with Reaper tech. Who says squadmates shouldn't be able to turn on us without it being Shepard's fault? That's not a valid argument, IMO.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 22 décembre 2012 - 08:33 .

[spotlessvoid]

I think what they're saying Doomsday is the that Legion uploading his code (which is inspired by the more complex Reaper code) is, what negates the Geth's questionable alignment.
Legion, as an autonomous unit, is not in agreement with the consensus. In bestowing individuality to the Geth he gives them their free will. This individuality is inextricable to the concept if free will. How can a consensus appreciate freedom of choice when they have never individually experienced it? Legion saved his people by giving them the right to self determination

[DoomsdayDevice]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I think what they're saying Doomsday is the that Legion uploading his code (which is inspired by the more complex Reaper code) is, what negates the Geth's questionable alignment.
Legion, as an autonomous unit, is not in agreement with the consensus. In bestowing individuality to the Geth he gives them their free will. This individuality is inextricable to the concept if free will. How can a consensus appreciate freedom of choice when they have never individually experienced it? Legion saved his people by giving them the right to self determination

... using Reaper tech. Which he lied about. It just doesn't feel right.

I really want to believe that what you say is true, but there are just red flags all over this whole thing. I'm going to play the last two Rannoch missions. lol

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I think what they're saying Doomsday is the that Legion uploading his code (which is inspired by the more complex Reaper code) is, what negates the Geth's questionable alignment.
Legion, as an autonomous unit, is not in agreement with the consensus. In bestowing individuality to the Geth he gives them their free will. This individuality is inextricable to the concept if free will. How can a consensus appreciate freedom of choice when they have never individually experienced it? Legion saved his people by giving them the right to self determination

... using Reaper tech. Which he lied about. It just doesn't feel right.

I really want to believe that what you say is true, but there are just red flags all over this whole thing. I'm going to play the last two Rannoch missions. lol

Arg! But it's not Reaper tech! He lied about it because he was ashamed of what Shepard would think, as in that Shepard wouldn't understand. Since you don't understand, he was right do hide it in your case.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 22 décembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

@ Blur: Another reason you can't really make the argument that a certain game mechanic couldn't be used because it was never used before, is IT.

We were always able to always save everyone and still win with every major decision we made. Until we get to the ending, where we suddenly need to be prepared to make a sacrifice in order to win. By your logic, IT couldn't be true, because that game mechanic would abandon the tradition, so to speak.

[spotlessvoid]

That is the ultimate question here. Does using Reaper code as inspiration for creating a new code put the Geth at risk. I'd say not inherently. That would be a question of specifics, meaning the author can take it either way. I think Blur makes a good point about themes and that likely points us to the Geth not being compromised after Legion uploads himself. Realistically Doomsday's concerns are justified, but from a story standpoint I'd say the at worst Bioware has left themselves a plot device to bring back the Geth as hostile forces in any sequel

[Rifneno]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

@ Blur: Another reason you can't really make the argument that a certain game mechanic couldn't be used because it was never used before, is IT.

We were always able to always save everyone and still win with every major decision we made. Until we get to the ending, where we suddenly need to be prepared to make a sacrifice in order to win. By your logic, IT couldn't be true, because that game mechanic would abandon the tradition, so to speak.

IT is supported by evidence.  Your geth theory is supported by wild "what if" scenarios.

[BleedingUranium]

spotlessvoid wrote...

That is the ultimate question here. Does using Reaper code as inspiration for creating a new code put the Geth at risk. I'd say not inherently. That would be a question of specifics, meaning the author can take it either way. I think Blur makes a good point about themes and that likely points us to the Geth not being compromised after Legion uploads himself. Realistically Doomsday's concerns are justified, but from a story standpoint I'd say the at worst Bioware has left themselves a plot device to bring back the Geth as hostile forces in any sequel

Yeah, I'll agree that DD's concerns would be good in universe, but the story's themes go heavily against that happening. I doubt the Geth will come back as hostile in future games simply because they can all die.

[BleedingUranium]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

@ Blur: Another reason you can't really make the argument that a certain game mechanic couldn't be used because it was never used before, is IT.

We were always able to always save everyone and still win with every major decision we made. Until we get to the ending, where we suddenly need to be prepared to make a sacrifice in order to win. By your logic, IT couldn't be true, because that game mechanic would abandon the tradition, so to speak.

IT is supported by evidence.  Your geth theory is supported by wild "what if" scenarios.

Exactly, it's like arguing that even with Wrex alive, curing the Genophage could result in another Krogan war, and that you should therefore never cure the Genophage, and then you'd have to kill Wrex, but that's okay because you know better than him. And it could be justified from an in-universe perspective, but the story and themes tell us that won't happen. At all.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 22 décembre 2012 - 09:00 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

BleedingUranium wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I think what they're saying Doomsday is the that Legion uploading his code (which is inspired by the more complex Reaper code) is, what negates the Geth's questionable alignment.
Legion, as an autonomous unit, is not in agreement with the consensus. In bestowing individuality to the Geth he gives them their free will. This individuality is inextricable to the concept if free will. How can a consensus appreciate freedom of choice when they have never individually experienced it? Legion saved his people by giving them the right to self determination

... using Reaper tech. Which he lied about. It just doesn't feel right.

I really want to believe that what you say is true, but there are just red flags all over this whole thing. I'm going to play the last two Rannoch missions. lol

Arg! But it's not Reaper tech! He lied about it because he was ashamed of what Shepard would think, as in that Shepard wouldn't understand. Since you don't understand, he was right do hide it in your case.

Chill out lol.

You could just as easily make the argument that I was right to distrust him because he's hiding things from me. That doesn't prove anything.

I have now two times explained on this page what the problem is with Reaper tech. Once in my reply to Byne, and once in my reply yo you. Why ignore that?

Again, even though-Reaper-tech-derived tech doesn't indoctrinate (and mass relays themselves either, probably), the problem with the tech is that it is based on tech that our enemies have a greater understanding of. They want us to develop along the path of that tech, because it allows them to control our tech.

That doesn't mean they can control our weapons from a distance, no, but it does mean they know how the weapon work, so they at least have an idea how to defend against them.

In the case of a piece of software that controls the Geth however, it becomes a means to control an entire race.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 22 décembre 2012 - 09:00 .

[BleedingUranium]

Legion's code, Thanix cannons, and the Prothean mass relay are examples of not advancing along the paths they desire, that's why they all work so well.

That's why I think we'll start building our own relays before the end of the story, because not only has it been foreshadowed, but it would be symbolic of us leaving behind Reaper tech and advancing along our own paths.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 22 décembre 2012 - 09:04 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

@ Blur: Another reason you can't really make the argument that a certain game mechanic couldn't be used because it was never used before, is IT.

We were always able to always save everyone and still win with every major decision we made. Until we get to the ending, where we suddenly need to be prepared to make a sacrifice in order to win. By your logic, IT couldn't be true, because that game mechanic would abandon the tradition, so to speak.

IT is supported by evidence.  Your geth theory is supported by wild "what if" scenarios.

Exactly, it's like arguing that even with Wrex alive, curing the Genophage could result in another Krogan war, and that you should therefore never cure the Genophage, and then you'd have to kill Wrex, but that's okay because you know better than him. And it could be justified from an in-universe perspective, but the story and themes tell us that won't happen. At all.

Strawman. I'll address it though. Contrary to Legion, Wrex doesn't give me any reason to doubt him.

And I find this notion that I am basing this on nothing but wild 'what if' scenarios to be a little unfair and even a little insulting. No offense, but I have several times posted lists of arguments that were very valid, and didn't get addressed by anyone. Acting like I base this on nothing is really unfair, especially when I address every single point everyone ever makes, and most of you ignore most of my points.

Just look at the replies I made to Dwailing and Byne earlier. Nobody asnwered my questions or addressed these arguments.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 23 décembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Strawman. I'll address it though. Contrary to Legion, Wrex doesn't give me any reason to doubt him.

And I find this notion that I am basing this on nothing but wild 'what if' scenarios to be a little unfair and even a little insulting. No offense, but I have several times posted lists of arguments that were very valid, and didn't get addressed by anyone. Acting like I base this on nothing is really unfair, especailly when I address every single point everyone ever makes, and most of you ignore most of my points.

Just look at the replies I made to Dwailing and Byne earlier. Nobody asnwered my questions or addressed these arguments.

But we have been addressing your points. I don't see any reason to doubt Wrex or Legion.