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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#71701
estebanus

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Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wow, this thread has become freaking enormous since I last was here!

How's it going, guys? It's been a while. It was pretty awesome in Cyprus. A bit hot though!

Oh, I suppose the newcomers may not know who I am, so let me reintroduce myself: I'm estebanus' sister.


I knew it!  I knew it the moment I saw the change in profile pic!  Welcome back.  I just wish you could have come back to a, heh, slightly nicer thread.  What can I say?  It's been an interesting couple of weeks.

Months, more like :P


Heh, yeah, you're right.  Maybe I just wish it had only been a couple of weeks.

Missed me that much, did ya? ^_^

#71702
BleedingUranium

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Dwailing wrote...

Hey Blur, I just had a thought. Does the Composer in Halo 4 remind you of anything in the ME universe? You know, any other devices that tried to preserve millions of organic minds and failed?


There was soooo much Mass Effect/IT in Halo 4, and not just the Composer!

It also made me realize exactly where ME3 is right now, there's even a breath scene, but it keeps going.

This is what we're missing! It's tied with ME2's suicide mission as the most epic part of any game ever!

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 22 décembre 2012 - 11:43 .


#71703
Dwailing

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estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wow, this thread has become freaking enormous since I last was here!

How's it going, guys? It's been a while. It was pretty awesome in Cyprus. A bit hot though!

Oh, I suppose the newcomers may not know who I am, so let me reintroduce myself: I'm estebanus' sister.


I knew it!  I knew it the moment I saw the change in profile pic!  Welcome back.  I just wish you could have come back to a, heh, slightly nicer thread.  What can I say?  It's been an interesting couple of weeks.

Months, more like :P


Heh, yeah, you're right.  Maybe I just wish it had only been a couple of weeks.

Missed me that much, did ya? ^_^


Well, TBH, there HAVE been some moments recently where I've liked you more than your brother... :whistle:

#71704
demersel

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 Ok, Eezo Core is an Eezo Core, and Element Zero is a naturally accuring elemement. 

But look me in the eye and say that these two are not identical. 

Derelict Reaper's core.
Posted Image

Project Base's reactor.
Posted Image

#71705
Raistlin Majare 1992

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cyrexwingblade wrote...

I do find the argument that Shepalyst validly copying Shepard is a violation of the Heisenberg principle a bit silly when we're saying the Reapers retain the knowledge and memories of their respective races after *reducing them to protein paste*.

The game-world is clear that Reaper tech can extrapolate organic mental processes in ways real science would either scream about or hide in a corner and cry over.

Using too much RL approach for a fictional and fringe-science scenario at best is just going to give you an anuerism. Much safer to just examine it literarily, and see about author-intent.


Sorry, but the Reapers are never stated, not by them or others, to preserve the memories of the species they are created from. It is only stated they preserve the species.

As such any thought that they can perfectly copy a mind is purely guesswork, guesswork with alot of counter arguments shown in game.

Like Overlord. Last time a Organic mind was hooked up to a VI (not even an AI) it broke under the data flow through its brain and sent both itself and the VI into a berserk frenzy as they became some sort of terrible single entity.

And then there is EDI who states that even if you copied her data to another blue box she would not be the same anymore. Nothing suggests doing this to a Organic would have any difference in consequence.

#71706
Dwailing

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Hey Blur, I just had a thought. Does the Composer in Halo 4 remind you of anything in the ME universe? You know, any other devices that tried to preserve millions of organic minds and failed?


There was soooo much Mass Effect/IT in Halo 4, and not just the Composer!


Nothing new under the sun, right?  Anyway, I agree.  That game is SO awesome.

#71707
CoolioThane

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estebanus wrote...

Wow, this thread has become freaking enormous since I last was here!

How's it going, guys? It's been a while. It was pretty awesome in Cyprus. A bit hot though!

Oh, I suppose the newcomers may not know who I am, so let me reintroduce myself: I'm estebanus' sister.


Hey este's sister! how's the leg?

#71708
Dwailing

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demersel wrote...

 Ok, Eezo Core is an Eezo Core, and Element Zero is a naturally accuring elemement. 

But look me in the eye and say that these two are not identical. 

Derelict Reaper's core.
Posted Image

Project Base's reactor.
Posted Image


They are identical... probably because they're both eezo cores.

#71709
estebanus

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Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wow, this thread has become freaking enormous since I last was here!

How's it going, guys? It's been a while. It was pretty awesome in Cyprus. A bit hot though!

Oh, I suppose the newcomers may not know who I am, so let me reintroduce myself: I'm estebanus' sister.


I knew it!  I knew it the moment I saw the change in profile pic!  Welcome back.  I just wish you could have come back to a, heh, slightly nicer thread.  What can I say?  It's been an interesting couple of weeks.

Months, more like :P


Heh, yeah, you're right.  Maybe I just wish it had only been a couple of weeks.

Missed me that much, did ya? ^_^


Well, TBH, there HAVE been some moments recently where I've liked you more than your brother... :whistle:

Yeah, he did tell me earlier today that there was a bit of a fallout between him and the IT community. I really wouldn't like to discuss it, though. He's still family after all, and I don't want to come into a fight here while defending him.

Modifié par estebanus, 22 décembre 2012 - 11:45 .


#71710
MegumiAzusa

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[quote]Restrider wrote...

But he's not having anymore visions! :whistle:[/quote]
On this note:
What do people think about Sovereign's "YOU TOUCH MY MIND"?
It appeared to be normal holo-communication back on Virmire, but so did the discussion with Harbinger on that remote landing pad...[/quote]
Every frame from a vision is in MEvisionSEQ3 (the full vision you get thanks to the prothean cipher, but the first 3 and last 2 frames of Jug_70_Beacon_CUT (the vision you get from the beacon on Virmire)
All 5 frames show Sovereign.
The first 3 look like you are pulled in "slowly", the last 2 look like it noticed you and purposely severed the connection.

#71711
BleedingUranium

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Repost because edit:

Dwailing wrote...

Hey Blur, I just had a thought. Does the Composer in Halo 4 remind you of anything in the ME universe? You know, any other devices that tried to preserve millions of organic minds and failed?


There was soooo much Mass Effect/IT in Halo 4, and not just the Composer!

It also made me realize exactly where ME3 is right now, there's even a breath scene, but it keeps going.

This is what we're missing! It's tied with ME2's suicide mission as the most epic part of any game ever!

#71712
CmdrShep80

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@ restrider

So compare the menu sounds with the breath scene sound.  Breath Scene sound starts 8 seconds into it.  Menu sounds occur at 4 seconds, 22 seconds, 55 seconds, 1:21, and 1:43.  There's a few more but they're rather faint

Like I said earlier, play the menu sounds and let it roll, then play the breath scene sound and listen to them together, you'll hear they are similar in sound.  Plus you'll need really good headphones at a loud enough volume to hear the background menu sounds.  They don't sound like much on speakers. 

I can recommend a good set Posted ImagePosted Image

Like I said the other day I didn't notice it because I wasn't using headphones till I got these and have been using them when all of a sudden yesterday after I finished my mp bouts I was like WTF OMG!

#71713
estebanus

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CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wow, this thread has become freaking enormous since I last was here!

How's it going, guys? It's been a while. It was pretty awesome in Cyprus. A bit hot though!

Oh, I suppose the newcomers may not know who I am, so let me reintroduce myself: I'm estebanus' sister.


Hey este's sister! how's the leg?

Oh, the leg's fine, don't you worry! I can partake in training exercizes without problem again!

#71714
Dwailing

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estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...
Missed me that much, did ya? ^_^


Well, TBH, there HAVE been some moments recently where I've liked you more than your brother... :whistle:

Yeah, he did tell me earlier today that there was a bit of a fallout between the him and the IT community. I really wouldn't like to discuss it, though. He's still family after all, and I don't want to come into a fight here while defending him.


No problem.  Look, I still like him, don't get me wrong.  It's just... well, let's just say we've had our ups and downs and leave it at that, shall we? :)

#71715
byne

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Dwailing wrote...

No problem.  Look, I still like him, don't get me wrong.  It's just... well, let's just say we've had our ups and downs and leave it at that, shall we? :)


I must have missed whatever you're talking about, since I still like estebanus as much as I did even back when he was an IT'er.

#71716
CmdrShep80

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Rifneno wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Well, my computer wants to install an update first


Windows Update.  IT IS THE HARBINGER OF YOUR PERFECTION.


One of these days if I'm techninolically savvy I ought to do a video of Harbinger's speeches with Windows hehe.  Though it reminds me of the transformers video, mac vs PC.  The acting sucks frankly but when it gets to the great music and the CGI omg it's awesome!

EDIT - watches again...the good stuff starts at around 1:10 till the end

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 22 décembre 2012 - 11:48 .


#71717
Restrider

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...
On this note:
What do people think about Sovereign's "YOU TOUCH MY MIND"?
It appeared to be normal holo-communication back on Virmire, but so did the discussion with Harbinger on that remote landing pad...

Every frame from a vision is in MEvisionSEQ3 (the full vision you get thanks to the prothean cipher, but the first 3 and last 2 frames of Jug_70_Beacon_CUT (the vision you get from the beacon on Virmire)
All 5 frames show Sovereign.
The first 3 look like you are pulled in "slowly", the last 2 look like it noticed you and purposely severed the connection.


That would imply that Sovereign was doing something with the beacon. But we already discussed this. Didn't some sort of Reaper image appear in the vision even before Virmire?

#71718
demersel

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 Peeka-boo! Leviathan watches you watching the galaxy masturbating -
Posted Image 
:D

#71719
gunslinger_ruiz

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Dwailing wrote...

demersel wrote...

 Ok, Eezo Core is an Eezo Core, and Element Zero is a naturally accuring elemement. 

But look me in the eye and say that these two are not identical. 

Derelict Reaper's core.
Posted Image

Project Base's reactor.
Posted Image


They are identical... probably because they're both eezo cores.


The difference in Reaper cores and our Eezo cores doesn't have to come from difference in size, but could be in how they compress/harness/deploy the energy.

#71720
CoolioThane

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estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Wow, this thread has become freaking enormous since I last was here!

How's it going, guys? It's been a while. It was pretty awesome in Cyprus. A bit hot though!

Oh, I suppose the newcomers may not know who I am, so let me reintroduce myself: I'm estebanus' sister.


Hey este's sister! how's the leg?

Oh, the leg's fine, don't you worry! I can partake in training exercizes without problem again!


Well that's swell! Good to have you back. Hope you have a nice christmas with your family!

#71721
Dwailing

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demersel wrote...

 Peeka-boo! Leviathan watches you watching the galaxy masturbating -
Posted Image 
:D


HOLY!  WHAT THE?!  HUH?!  WHERE THE FRAK IS THAT???!!! :blink::blink::blink:

#71722
Bill Casey

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demersel wrote...

 Peeka-boo! Leviathan watches you watching the galaxy masturbating -
Posted Image 
:D


1. Is that a photoshop?
2. If not, where in the game is that?

#71723
Dwailing

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Repost because edit:

Dwailing wrote...

Hey Blur, I just had a thought. Does the Composer in Halo 4 remind you of anything in the ME universe? You know, any other devices that tried to preserve millions of organic minds and failed?


There was soooo much Mass Effect/IT in Halo 4, and not just the Composer!

It also made me realize exactly where ME3 is right now, there's even a breath scene, but it keeps going.

This is what we're missing! It's tied with ME2's suicide mission as the most epic part of any game ever!


Oh man, I just noticed.  After the bomb goes off, Chief wakes up in front of Cortana in almost the exact same position that Shepard wakes up in front of the "Catalyst" in.

#71724
Eryri

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Restrider wrote...

Interesting.
I have a different take on it though.
Here is a thought experiment. If you would take your brain on three different occasions on the same day, you would still have a lot of changes on a molecular - let alone atomic level.
However I guess you would not be able to tell the difference between these three individuals, unless you asked them what time of the day it is. You would perceive them as the same person.
The big question here is, what is self-awareness and what makes you an individual?
Usually you'd say all your experiences stored in the neural network, the way your brain recieves input, the features of your brain chemistry etc.

The point I am trying to say is the following:
If your individuality/self-awareness/soul/conscience/personality - or however you want to call it - is determined by the subatomic position of all the particles your brain is comprised of, why is there always some sort of core-identity that prevails throughout your life (ignoring heavy traumata/turning-points that change a personality)?
And don't tell me that the matter your brain consists of is in a fixed state...

I do not really have an answer and I would really like more information on that topic (I guess some others are more adept on this kind of topic than I am).
I am not trying to defend Synthesis or Control here, I am just genuinely interested on this topic.


I find this kind of thing interesting too, but I'm afraid I know next to nothing about neurology. I do remember a little from some of my courses at uni. Something about the amount of times a particular synapse is stimulated to fire, progressively makes it more sensitive to subsequent activation by causing it to express more receptor sites in its cell membrane.

This change in a neuron's sensitivity is one of the ways in which we aquire memories, along with neurones growing, or pruning dendritic connections to each other. So to copy Shepard's personality and memories accurately, the catalyst would have to scan all his neurones, and note the number and sites of the individual receptor proteins on their surfaces... which seems a bit of a tall order in the 10 seconds or so it took to reduce him to ash. 

Maybe it's a bit like compressing an MP3? Maybe there's extraneous or redundant information you could ignore or "compress" when scanning a brain and still get something that was recognisably "Shepard"? 

It's all a bit beyond my pay grade to be honest. Spotlessvoid seems to know quite a bit about this sort of thing though.

Modifié par Eryri, 22 décembre 2012 - 11:55 .


#71725
Rifneno

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It looks like the Shadow Broker's ship if I had to guess.