80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Dwailing wrote...

Oh man, I just had a possible Fridge Horror moment. Remember how Jack gets calmer and less violent in ME3? Well, I just remembered that in ME2 her unique upgrade mentions in its description that she's suffering neural decay. I wonder if the two are connected. O_O

Yeah, neurological damage usually makes people responsible, productive members of society. And hey, did you know video games make people into killers? True story, man!

Dwailing wrote...

I don't know. I think I've heard of people changing sections of the brain to reduce aggression in, say, mental patients (Not condoning it, just the first example that popped into my head.). If the right sections of the brain were to decay...

Well as long as we're using the same premise that TV dramas use to give characters psychic powers, I'm sure you've thought this clearly through.

IsaacShep wrote...

It's not. Some Citadel/Crucible construction element shielded him from the blast so he survived. The end.

Headcanon somewhere else. Preferably somewhere near a science textbook. Any grade will do.

Vilyn117 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ah and there it is. Tell me 117 what ending did you pick?

Control, obviously. Shepard is not a "dictator", just because he controls reapers doesnt mean hes just going to become Big Brother. Synthesis is wrong on many levels. Both of those endings has shepard performing his own sacrifice. Destroy he does not sacrifice himself, he somehow "lives", while failing his mission, because a temporary win is not a real victory.

So you killed yourself because a Reaper told you it was a great idea. Isaac, could you pass this gentleman that idiotball you're holding?

[MegumiAzusa]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The Literal interpretation must involve indoctrination. Otherwise the ending is just nonsense (breath scene).

It's not. Some Citadel/Crucible construction element shielded him from the blast so he survived. The end.

The shear force of that explosion would flatten Shepard, sheild or no shield. The station would also take considerable damage from that explosion. Easily more than enough damage to ensure life support and other vital systems would fail.

As you obviously can see the structure is completely intact but the sections which exploded from the inside, presumably caused by overloads.

[Eryri]

A shameless repost of my rant from the bottom of the previous page. 

Eryri wrote...

Returning to the example of Indy in the fridge - the point Byne was making, IsaacShep, was that people DIDN'T accept it. Despite the fact that Indiana Jones is a fantasy adventure series, with no pretensions towards being realistic.

Indy had previously encountered a chest full of face-melting demons, an evil priest capable of ripping out a person's still beating heart and showing it to them, and a cup capable of making folks immortal. Yet the infamous fridge was the point were the fans drew the line in the sand. That scene was universally derided. It even became a meme, synonymous with "Jumping the Shark" to describe the moment when a series fell off a cliff.

Mass Effect is a series with a different tone altogether. It has aspirations of being, if not exactly "Hard" Sci-fi, at least reasonably "firm" sci-fi. It has well thought out explanations for it's more fanciful elements, like eezo and biotics. It even went to the trouble of explaining how we can hear explosions in space. There's a scene where Steve explains that ships are fitted with "acoustic simulators" to make explosions seem more psychologically real to pilots.

Yet at the climax of the series, the literal interpretation asks for disbelief to be suspended in ways which would raise eyebrows in Harry freaking Potter! 

First Harbinger politely waits while Shepard says goodbye to his Crew.

Then he manages to miss his arch-nemesis Shepard, despite being perfectly capable of vaporising everyone else on the beam run, and Shepard being prone on the ground after tripping over.

He then flies off leaving the Reaper's greatest weakness completely unguarded apart from 3 husks and a marauder.

The beam then conveniently drops Shepard off, a mere 5 minute's stroll from the control panel, with the entire vast expanse of the citadel to choose from.

Let's not even start on the Catalyst conversation.

Finally Shepard survives the mother of all explosions, despite having no shields, no armor, or even a bloody fridge to hide in!

There's a reason the expression "Truth is stranger than fiction" is a cliche. People will accept all manner of unlikely events with the disclaimer "based on a true story" - like the examples IsaacShep made of people surviving the September 11th attacks.

However they are, perversely, much less likely to be forgiving of works of fiction - and any competant writer knows this. It may well be possible to survive a nuclear explosion of a certain yield, at a certain distance, in a fridge with a certain thickness of lead lining it (although seriously, who makes a fridge with lead?). But you don't write it into your story unless you want it to be a laughing stock.

Bioware have previously produced some of the best writing in gaming, even in the earlier parts of ME3. They appear to be very talented, intelligent, responsible adults, allowed to do things like vote, and drive cars, and use a pair of scissors while unsupervised. I cannot believe they intended the literal end of this story to be definitive. I suppose you could call this the "argument from incredulity".

Anyway, rant over.

Modifié par Eryri, 23 décembre 2012 - 12:48 .

[dorktainian]

does this confirm IT?

[MegumiAzusa]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

The reason we advocate Destroy isn't just because Shepard survives, it's because Shepard survives in spite of everything that should by all rights and logic kill him/her.
More over, Shepard survives when the Catalyst tells him/her they won't, "You can wipe out all Synthetic life if you want, including the Geth. Even YOU are partly Synthetic." (pre-EC quote, but still basically the same post-EC).

Partly, meaning there can be a chance not to die, but it's highly assumed you do. And it takes quite a lot so you don't.

[Rifneno]

Eryri wrote...

A shameless repost of my rant from the bottom of the previous page. 

-snip-

<applause>  Well said.

[CoolioThane]

I ****ing hate people who come onto this thread saying:
"Derp is this thread still going? Herpyderpy it's obviously wrong."
"BaD wRiTiNg LoL yOu'Re ReTaRdEd FoR tHiNkInG aNyThInG eLsE"
"Control/Synthesis are the best, Destroy is ****"
"Don't tell me to read evidence/watch videos, I want to be convinced by you even though I'm not going to be convinced because I'm a **** who just thinks it's bad writing and am just going to troll you people because you think the game is better than I think it was. I want to complain and be butthurt because I'm a ****"
"IT is wrong because I said it is. You have no evidence."
"Yeah, that's not evidence, IT is wrong. I'm not going to put any evidence, I'm just going to state my opinion as fact, and act condescending to everyone stupid enough to believe in IT"

Dick heads

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

Eryri wrote...

A shameless repost of my rant from the bottom of the previous page. 

-snip-

<applause>  Well said.

Agreed.

It also shows the strange selectiveness of an audience, where they will accept one thing but not another.  The Indiana Jones examples were perfect.

Also, we should honestly start ignoring people like IsaacShep.  Someone necroed one of his threads from 9 months ago recently, and reading his OP says a lot about him.  He even described (the original!) Synthesis as 'beautiful'!

[Lokanaiya]

CoolioThane wrote...

I ****ing hate people who come onto this thread saying:
"Derp is this thread still going? Herpyderpy it's obviously wrong."
"BaD wRiTiNg LoL yOu'Re ReTaRdEd FoR tHiNkInG aNyThInG eLsE"
"Control/Synthesis are the best, Destroy is ****"
"Don't tell me to read evidence/watch videos, I want to be convinced by you even though I'm not going to be convinced because I'm a **** who just thinks it's bad writing and am just going to troll you people because you think the game is better than I think it was. I want to complain and be butthurt because I'm a ****"
"IT is wrong because I said it is. You have no evidence."
"Yeah, that's not evidence, IT is wrong. I'm not going to put any evidence, I'm just going to state my opinion as fact, and act condescending to everyone stupid enough to believe in IT"

Dick heads

Agreed. I'm really tired of having to justify OUR position, as if IT is the interpretation that requires too many leaps of logic and ignoring stuff... it was old all the way back in March.

On the plus side, at least it's pushing us towards page 3000 all the faster.

[estebanus]

Lokanaiya wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I ****ing hate people who come onto this thread saying:
"Derp is this thread still going? Herpyderpy it's obviously wrong."
"BaD wRiTiNg LoL yOu'Re ReTaRdEd FoR tHiNkInG aNyThInG eLsE"
"Control/Synthesis are the best, Destroy is ****"
"Don't tell me to read evidence/watch videos, I want to be convinced by you even though I'm not going to be convinced because I'm a **** who just thinks it's bad writing and am just going to troll you people because you think the game is better than I think it was. I want to complain and be butthurt because I'm a ****"
"IT is wrong because I said it is. You have no evidence."
"Yeah, that's not evidence, IT is wrong. I'm not going to put any evidence, I'm just going to state my opinion as fact, and act condescending to everyone stupid enough to believe in IT"

Dick heads

Agreed. I'm really tired of having to justify OUR position, as if IT is the interpretation that requires too many leaps of logic and ignoring stuff... it was old all the way back in March.

On the plus side, at least it's pushing us towards page 3000 all the faster.

B*tching about those people won't change it. The only thing that can be used effectively against them is good manners and a respectful tone. Otherwise, you'll just prove their point.

[Andromidius]

People who can't even budge on the idea that the ending was even a partial hallucination remind me a lot about people who think Total Recall (the Arnie version, obviously) was 'real'. One of my friends is one of those people.

The funny thing is, they rarely even come up with a reason for their thoughts. In Total Recall is pretty obvious that Quaid was living out his fantasy of being a super agent on Mars, the fact it all starts the moment he's plugged into the dream machine, how everyone turns against him and there's a conspiracy surrounding him and even ends with Mars being terraformed by an alien artifact.

No, they'd rather think its all real and awesome despite being being completely implausible - and not a fantasy parody of itself.

[Rifneno]

estebanus wrote...

B*tching about those people won't change it. The only thing that can be used effectively against them is good manners and a respectful tone. Otherwise, you'll just prove their point.

Getting annoyed at stupid people proves their point that IT is mental illness?  If you say so. 

[estebanus]

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

B*tching about those people won't change it. The only thing that can be used effectively against them is good manners and a respectful tone. Otherwise, you'll just prove their point.

Getting annoyed at stupid people proves their point that IT is mental illness?  If you say so. 

Not really what I meant. Most of the time (if not always) battling insults with insults won't work. If a person comes in here and insults the IT, then the wrong reacton would be to call him a weak-minded, arrogant idiot and a troll. 
It would either be best to simply ignore him or to actually argue against him in a civil manner.

[Rifneno]

estebanus wrote...

Not really what I meant. Most of the time (if not always) battling insults with insults won't work. If a person comes in here and insults the IT, then the wrong reacton would be to call him a weak-minded, arrogant idiot and a troll. 
It would either be best to simply ignore him or to actually argue against him in a civil manner.

Ignoring them is good.  Turning the other cheek is stupid.

[ivenoidea]

So i was playing through Leviathan again today and noticed a couple things.

I already pointed out shortly after release how very similar Indoctrination is to the mind control thing the Leviathans use. This makes sense because after all the reapers were built in the Leviathan's image.

There are a couple similarities between the scene where Shepard is thrown into this "alternative reality" created by the Leviathans and the last scene with Star Child.

Firstly the obvious one: The Leviathans take a shape that Shepard is familiar with, so he feels more comfortable talking. Is this not the exact thing the Star Child does? It takes the shape of the child that Shepard encountered in Vancouver and dreamt about so much.

Secondly: We can see Shepard lying there while he is in his "hallucination". At the end of it he suddenly wakes up quickly, somewhat similarily to the breath scene.

Those 2 things already tell us that Bioware are trying to draw parallels between those 2 scenes.

The third thing might need some explanation. We already established that a lot of things in the last 15 mins, after "The Run" are things Shepard has, in some form already seen.

Remember this scene? youtu.be/oRXR8oxKtBA

When i saw it first i thought it was odd, usually animations look much better, this time around it looked kinda jerky, like it didn't belong there. Well, guess what, that particular animation is just something Shepard had seen before. Check this out: youtu.be/5bt8_niKjQ8

Yep, that's Thane's loyalty mission and it's the same exact animation. It's only one of 2 cases where i noticed Bioware reuse old animation and having it look odd.

The second one is this: youtu.be/G9UkWqSG2QQ

The pose in which Shepard enters the hallucination. Seems familiar? Well it should.

youtu.be/W8WQ8bntA8g From the Star Child scene.

And guess what, in both cases where it is used it seems kinda jerky, as if to give a small hint that something is off.

Just another case of Bioware yelling "YEAH YOURE RIGHT" in the face of IT. Opinions?

Edit: As Rifneno pointed out, Shepard was in the kneeling position like that once already: youtu.be/M14Uihbb8w4

This proves further that it was not a coincidence they used that animation. They just put it in Leviathan to reinforce it.

Edit2: This was also pointed out. From "The Arrival". Remember, this dlc was made specifically to connect to ME3. youtu.be/IqoqjiBwLhA

Modifié par ivenoidea, 23 décembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[estebanus]

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Not really what I meant. Most of the time (if not always) battling insults with insults won't work. If a person comes in here and insults the IT, then the wrong reacton would be to call him a weak-minded, arrogant idiot and a troll. 
It would either be best to simply ignore him or to actually argue against him in a civil manner.

Ignoring them is good.  Turning the other cheek is stupid.

Turning the other cheek ultimately proves that you're better than them. Stooping down to their level is not.

[Rifneno]

ivenoidea wrote...

So i was playing through Leviathan again today and noticed a couple things.

I already pointed out shortly after release how very similar Indoctrination is to the mind control thing the Leviathans use. This makes sense because after all the reapers were built in the Leviathan's image.

There are a couple similarities between the scene where Shepard is thrown into this "alternative reality" created by the Leviathans and the last scene with Star Child.

Firstly the obvious one: The Leviathans take a shape that Shepard is familiar with, so he feels more comfortable talking. Is this not the exact thing the Star Child does? It takes the shape of the child that Shepard encountered in Vancouver and dreamt about so much.

Secondly: We can see Shepard lying there while he is in his "hallucination". At the end of it he suddenly wakes up quickly, somewhat similarily to the breath scene.

Those 2 things already tell us that Bioware are trying to draw parallels between those 2 scenes.

The third thing might need some explanation. We already established that a lot of things in the last 15 mins, after "The Run" are things Shepard has, in some form already seen.

Remember this scene? youtu.be/oRXR8oxKtBA

When i saw it first i thought it was odd, usually animations look much better, this time around it looked kinda jerky, like it didn't belong there. Well, guess what, that particular animation is just something Shepard had seen before. Check this out: youtu.be/5bt8_niKjQ8

Yep, that's Thane's loyalty mission and it's the same exact animation. It's only one of 2 cases where i noticed Bioware reuse old animation and having it look odd.

The second one is this: youtu.be/G9UkWqSG2QQ

The pose in which Shepard enters the hallucination. Seems familiar? Well it should.

youtu.be/W8WQ8bntA8g From the Star Child scene.

And guess what, in both cases where it is used it seems kinda jerky, as if to give a small hint that something is off.

Just another case of Bioware yelling "YEAH YOURE RIGHT" in the face of IT. Opinions?

Indeed.  Good eye.    Only thing I'd like to add is that there's only one other time in the series where Shepard's in that knees and hands pose: while getting sucked into David Archer's synthesis Hell in Overlord.  Coincidence?  ... Literalists think so, amazingly.

[ivenoidea]

Rifneno wrote...
Indeed.  Good eye.    Only thing I'd like to add is that there's only one other time in the series where Shepard's in that knees and hands pose: while getting sucked into David Archer's synthesis Hell in Overlord.  Coincidence?  ... Literalists think so, amazingly.

Thanks! While watching my brother play through the series (finally managed to force him to) i noticed some interesting story relations. Will post those later, now it's lunch time 

[MegumiAzusa]

You missed arrival.

[Rifneno]

estebanus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Not really what I meant. Most of the time (if not always) battling insults with insults won't work. If a person comes in here and insults the IT, then the wrong reacton would be to call him a weak-minded, arrogant idiot and a troll. 
It would either be best to simply ignore him or to actually argue against him in a civil manner.

Ignoring them is good.  Turning the other cheek is stupid.

Turning the other cheek ultimately proves that you're better than them. Stooping down to their level is not.

We must have different definitions of the word "better".  I don't see the point in showing respect to someone who is showing you disrespect.  If you don't want to snipe back and forth, that's fine, ignoring is definitely the better option.  But basically kissing their ass?  Nah.

[Lokanaiya]

I tend to be pretty civil, actually. I'm just letting out a little steam on how often it has to be done. I agree that we shouldn't straight out insult people, but still, there's a point where you just have to say "enough" and if your 100 previous explanations haven't satisfied them, fine. Respectfully, that's their opinion and it's their problem.

[ivenoidea]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

You missed arrival.

Who are you talking to here?

[The Heretic of Time]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

You don't need a nuclear blast to kill a human. An explosion a tenth as strong would still kill the guy. Accept it.

The creators of ME3 made Shepard survive the explosion. Accept it.

I've accepted the fact that you dont understand much about physics.

Neither do you, else you'd know that an nuclear explosion in the vacuum of space would implode rather than explode, causing an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) in the shape of a big cloud that fries all the nearby systems and electronics, but doesn't do any physical damage other than radioactive contamination.

In other words, a lot of things in the Destroy ending don't make sense, but Shepard surviving it isn't one of those things.

[Andromidius]

Ignoring that the Citadel isn't a vacuum. But then you do ignore a lot of things, so your point is invalid.

[MaximizedAction]

Don't reply to him!