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[MaximizedAction]

Andromidius wrote...

I do feel that Bioware 'have' to release some form of DLC to fix ME3's ending. Why?

Because of the backlash they are still feeling. People are still talking about how bad it was! No proper clarification = Bioware's credibility ruined forever.

I still think this is their intention, however. They didn't expect such a backlash, but to instantly cave in and admit they were playng mind tricks would make them look worse. Better to take your time, take the punishment, then say "Hey, look. You gave us a hard time, we accept that. We understand. But here's why we did this."

And then all the haters can apologise, and we can all enjoy ME4.

Absolutely agree! Though I'm not so optimistic about all the haters apologising. It'll probably all depend heavily on how good the conclusion will be and how the reveal will be presented -- if at all. Here's hoping!

[dorktainian]

and if they stick their necks out and defend the endings?

[Andromidius]

dorktainian wrote...

and if they stick their necks out and defend the endings?

They already did.  Didn't turn out well.

I think its all a big showcase for them.  If you get people REALLY MAD then when things get better everything seems so much better.  Like makeup sex after having an argument with the girlfriend.

[MaximizedAction]

dorktainian wrote...

and if they stick their necks out and defend the endings?

A defence is only as good as it can convice the other party. And up until now, Bioware's defence has yet to deliver a serious punch.

[ElSuperGecko]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Andromidius wrote...
I do feel that Bioware 'have' to release some form of DLC to fix ME3's ending. Why?

Because of the backlash they are still feeling. People are still talking about how bad it was! No proper clarification = Bioware's credibility ruined forever.

I still think this is their intention, however. They didn't expect such a backlash, but to instantly cave in and admit they were playng mind tricks would make them look worse. Better to take your time, take the punishment, then say "Hey, look. You gave us a hard time, we accept that. We understand. But here's why we did this."

And then all the haters can apologise, and we can all enjoy ME4.

Absolutely agree! Though I'm not so optimistic about all the haters apologising. It'll probably all depend heavily on how good the conclusion will be and how the reveal will be presented -- if at all. Here's hoping!

Actually, Bioware don't "have" to do anything else with the endings.  And I personally don't think they will.

That doesn't rule out the possibility of them revealing more about the endings in future DLC, of course, or changing people's perceptions of what the available ending choices actually mean.

Say for example they release DLC which proves beyond a doubt that IT was intentional, that gives us evidence that Control will lead to Shepard becoming the governing intelligence of a human Reaper but the cycle of extinction doesn't end, or that Synthesis will end up as the nightmare predicted by the Prothean visions.  Suddenly people's thoughts turn more and more to Destroy... and the high EMS breath scene becomes a bridge to ME4.  The endings themselves haven't changed, but people's perceptions have.

I wouldn't rule out a shock twist in the tale coming in future DLC that sets up how the series will progress on the next generation of games - in fact, I expect it.  But I wouldn't imagine another "new" ending will be revealed in a future DLC either, because not everyone that buys ME3 will end up playing it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ElSuperGecko wrote...
Actually, Bioware don't "have" to do anything else with the endings.  And I personally don't think they will.

That doesn't rule out the possibility of them revealing more about the endings in future DLC, of course, or changing people's perceptions of what the available ending choices actually mean.

Say for example they release DLC which proves beyond a doubt that IT was intentional, that gives us evidence that Control will lead to Shepard becoming the governing intelligence of a human Reaper but the cycle of extinction doesn't end, or that Synthesis will end up as the nightmare predicted by the Prothean visions.  Suddenly people's thoughts turn more and more to Destroy... and the high EMS breath scene becomes a bridge to ME4.  The endings themselves haven't changed, but people's perceptions have.

I wouldn't rule out a shock twist in the tale coming in future DLC that sets up how the series will progress on the next generation of games - in fact, I expect it.  But I wouldn't imagine another "new" ending will be revealed in a future DLC either, because not everyone that buys ME3 will end up playing it.

So you're saying that instead of wrapping up Shepard's story by defeating the Reapers in ME3, that a new protagonist will pick up the mantle to finish off the Reapers?

[Rifneno]

Andromidius wrote...

I do feel that Bioware 'have' to release some form of DLC to fix ME3's ending. Why?

Because of the backlash they are still feeling. People are still talking about how bad it was! No proper clarification = Bioware's credibility ruined forever.

I still think this is their intention, however. They didn't expect such a backlash, but to instantly cave in and admit they were playng mind tricks would make them look worse. Better to take your time, take the punishment, then say "Hey, look. You gave us a hard time, we accept that. We understand. But here's why we did this."

And then all the haters can apologise scoff and claim that BW never intended IT and stole the idea from us and continue badmouthing them, and we can all enjoy ME4.

Fixed for accuracy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

masster blaster wrote...

Okay guys I already have a list on what to get you all for X mas. Will post them on Tuseday. Your going to love it.

You're getting me a present?!? Thank you so much, masster blaster! I am now eageerly awaiting you to come back on.
http://ts3.mm.bing.n...529802&pid=15.1

[Rifneno]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...
Actually, Bioware don't "have" to do anything else with the endings.  And I personally don't think they will.

That doesn't rule out the possibility of them revealing more about the endings in future DLC, of course, or changing people's perceptions of what the available ending choices actually mean.

Say for example they release DLC which proves beyond a doubt that IT was intentional, that gives us evidence that Control will lead to Shepard becoming the governing intelligence of a human Reaper but the cycle of extinction doesn't end, or that Synthesis will end up as the nightmare predicted by the Prothean visions.  Suddenly people's thoughts turn more and more to Destroy... and the high EMS breath scene becomes a bridge to ME4.  The endings themselves haven't changed, but people's perceptions have.

I wouldn't rule out a shock twist in the tale coming in future DLC that sets up how the series will progress on the next generation of games - in fact, I expect it.  But I wouldn't imagine another "new" ending will be revealed in a future DLC either, because not everyone that buys ME3 will end up playing it.

So you're saying that instead of wrapping up Shepard's story by defeating the Reapers in ME3, that a new protagonist will pick up the mantle to finish off the Reapers?

A lot of people feel that way.  I certainly hope it's not true, though.  This was designed to be a trilogy.  We were supposed to have an end to the Reapers here.  If they drag it out just to milk the cash cow... well, you can figure out the rest of that sentence.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Rifneno wrote...
A lot of people feel that way.  I certainly hope it's not true, though.  This was designed to be a trilogy.  We were supposed to have an end to the Reapers here.  If they drag it out just to milk the cash cow... well, you can figure out the rest of that sentence.

I actually agree with you, Rifneno. The Reaper threat should be Shepard's story, not Mass Effect's

[dorktainian]

Andromidius wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

and if they stick their necks out and defend the endings?

They already did.  Didn't turn out well.

I think its all a big showcase for them.  If you get people REALLY MAD then when things get better everything seems so much better.  Like makeup sex after having an argument with the girlfriend.

or in my case my wife of 21 years.  jeez that sounds nasty.  

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

I do feel that Bioware 'have' to release some form of DLC to fix ME3's ending. Why?

Because of the backlash they are still feeling. People are still talking about how bad it was! No proper clarification = Bioware's credibility ruined forever.

I still think this is their intention, however. They didn't expect such a backlash, but to instantly cave in and admit they were playng mind tricks would make them look worse. Better to take your time, take the punishment, then say "Hey, look. You gave us a hard time, we accept that. We understand. But here's why we did this."

And then all the haters can apologise scoff and claim that BW never intended IT and stole the idea from us and continue badmouthing them, and we can all enjoy ME4.

Fixed for accuracy.

You're probably right.

Though at least with Bioware waiting and taking the flak shows they weren't grasping for the easy solution.

Besides, its not like they have to even use the term "Indoctrination Theory" anywhere.  Just show that Shepard was being mindscrewed, then wrap things up a bit and bridge into ME4.

[Dysjong]

I will be taking a good look on the IT Theory the next couple of days, just to see what it is about. Until then, i really can't accept or deny it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Dysjong wrote...

I will be taking a good look on the IT Theory the next couple of days, just to see what it is about. Until then, i really can't accept or deny it.

That's what I said too, and it has now been... about 3 months. Here, sit on the fence with me.

[Andromidius]

Infact, okay. Here we go. My ideas for how we can bridge into ME4 effectively.

Set it 10-20 years afterwards, Shepard takes the role of Anderson as the war hero mentor for the new protagonist. More minor events can be scrubed out to make the narrative easier to program (i.e. would it really matter 20 years on whether or not you saved a colony when the entire Galaxy is burning?).

The Reapers can still be around. ME3's final DLC can show how the Reapers were pushed back temporarily, and there's a brief respite in the war where the Galaxy tries to rebuild and prepare for another invasion.

During this time, the Yahg achieve intersteller spaceflight. Bad times ahoy.

As for how the Reapers are beaten back? Well, perhaps the Citadel Relay is used to slingshot the fleet around Earth back into dark space. With the bulk of their forces cut off and in danger of being overwhelmed by superior numbers, the remaining Reapers retreat and regroup.

[ElSuperGecko]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
So you're saying that instead of wrapping up Shepard's story by defeating the Reapers in ME3, that a new protagonist will pick up the mantle to finish off the Reapers?

Possibly.  After hearing from Javik how long the Reaper war went on for in his cycle, doesn't ME3 seem a little bit shallow of an experience for a full-scale galactic invasion?  We spend more time fighting Cerberus than we do the Reapers.  For me at least, ME3 feels more like the opening battles of the war than an actual conclusion.

Or they be lying about the whole "concluding Shepard's story" thing, do an IT reveal, make the high EMS breath scene canon and have Shepard continue the fight in a position of increasing desperation.

I suppose it depends where exactly they want to take us with the announced ME4, and how big a departure they want to take from the universe they've already created.

[Andromidius]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Possibly.  After hearing from Javik how long the Reaper war went on for in his cycle, doesn't ME3 seem a little bit shallow of an experience for a full-scale galactic invasion?  We spend more time fighting Cerberus than we do the Reapers.  For me at least, ME3 feels more like the opening battles of the war than an actual conclusion.

The Prothean war was different in many ways, though.  The Reapers took their time with the Protheans due to being able to control their movements (holding the Citadel).  This time they can't, and they have to strike everywhere at once to keep the pressure up.

Heck, I imagine there were some Protheans near the end of the war who didn't even know a war was going on!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
So you're saying that instead of wrapping up Shepard's story by defeating the Reapers in ME3, that a new protagonist will pick up the mantle to finish off the Reapers?

Possibly.  After hearing from Javik how long the Reaper war went on for in his cycle, doesn't ME3 seem a little bit shallow of an experience for a full-scale galactic invasion?  We spend more time fighting Cerberus than we do the Reapers.  For me at least, ME3 feels more like the opening battles of the war than an actual conclusion.

Or they be lying about the whole "concluding Shepard's story" thing, do an IT reveal, make the high EMS breath scene canon and have Shepard continue the fight in a position of increasing desperation.

I suppose it depends where exactly they want to take us with the announced ME4, and how big a departure they want to take from the universe they've already created.

Isn't that the point of the Crucible, being a superweapon to defeat the Reapers quickly and effectively? The Prothean harvest took so long because a) the Prothean Empire was very extensive and because they fought a war of attrition against the Reapers.

As for them lying about Shepard's story being a trilogy, I don't think they'd lie for over five years now since after ME1 ended they were talking about Shepard's story being only a trilogy. That's how they planned everything out to begin with.

ME4, as I see it, will take place either during the galactic reconstruction or closely afterwords, giving them time to introduce new races who became spacefarers after the Reaper War.

[Andromidius]

Well like I've said before, it doesn't have to be Shepard's story to include Shepard as a secondary character.

And yeah, let's not get started on the Crucible again. The best thing I can say about it is that its a giant battery. Nothing else.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Andromidius wrote...

Well like I've said before, it doesn't have to be Shepard's story to include Shepard as a secondary character.

And yeah, let's not get started on the Crucible again. The best thing I can say about it is that its a giant battery. Nothing else.

I have no problem with Shepard appearing in a future Mass effect game. My problem is having the Reapers, Shepard's enemy, as the new protagonist's enemy as well.

[ElSuperGecko]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Isn't that the point of the Crucible, being a superweapon to defeat the Reapers quickly and effectively?

 
Well, that was the hope, at least.  Even now we still don't really know that much about it, or who originally designed it...

The Prothean harvest took so long because a) the Prothean Empire was very extensive and because they fought a war of attrition against the Reapers.

And yet, the Protheans had their entire central government wiped out at once by the Repaers use of the Citadel trap and the relay shut down.  We managed to avoid that particular fate.  The Reapers hold the Citadel at the end of ME3 however, and by drawing the allied fleets to them it appears to be functioning as a trap once again...

ME4, as I see it, will take place either during the galactic reconstruction or closely afterwords, giving them time to introduce new races who became spacefarers after the Reaper War.

I imagine that would be the case.  The introduction of the Leviathan could see a new enemy, and with the council races in disarray and their fleets decimated there's the opportunity for other races to step forward... civil war, maybe?  But I'm having a hard time seeing a ME4 without some kind of Reaper involvement...

[Norlond]

ElSuperGecko wrote...
 But I'm having a hard time seeing a ME4 without some kind of Reaper involvement...

The Reaper War acts as introduction into the ME Universe, just like the Blight did in DA:O (see everything the universe has to offer, like different places, races and potential conflicts). Future games will focus on one aspect of the established universe, like DA2 and 3 focus on the Mage-Templar War and the Qunari invasion

So ME4 may involve Reapers, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't

[Demarco09]

Merry Christmas Eve all,

I have been away from the forums for a while but just finished up another play through and am still being ate away about the ending. I have sort of gotten past the whole "ending" mishap, it still is wound that hasn't healed BUT now what is eating at me is how the hell are they going to bridge all of this together for ME4?
I understand that it is quite open ended at the moment but if the IT theory doesn't pan out, how is this going to work? I ask this because it has been shep's story for the entire Trilogy, you can't just scrub him out... it would just be a brand new game if that was the case. I don't mind that shep is no longer the players character, but I would at least want to see this story have some type of shepard legacy tied in some how. Just curious, there may be a thread about this but I haven't been on a while.

Modifié par Demarco09, 24 décembre 2012 - 12:53 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

demersel wrote...

@Gecko, what about discussion with engineer Adams about whether or not a synthetic is truly alive or not?

I'm not sure what you want to know, but in that discussion, Chakwas believes that synthetics aren't really alive, she believes they only emulate life.

[Rifneno]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

demersel wrote...

@Gecko, what about discussion with engineer Adams about whether or not a synthetic is truly alive or not?

I'm not sure what you want to know, but in that discussion, Chakwas believes that synthetics aren't really alive, she believes they only emulate life.

I wanted to backhand her after listening to her stupidity.