80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

It's not headcanon that if you've never experienced something, you don't know what it's truly like. The entire Legion story was based on that concept.

Except every time you have one of those talks with Legion, he goes out of his way to say that he understands the concepts even if he doesn't experience them.

True, though that doesn't mean he truly knows what it's like. For example, I've never drunken alcohol, but I understand the concept of geting drunk. But since I will never drink, I will never actually experience it. Same goes with Catalyst towards pain: he knows it's a function of the nervous system, yet having none, will never know what pain truly is.

So I have to birth a child to understand/care that it's painful?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

*sigh* I miss the days when this thread was free from people actually believing starbinger's bull****...

And i miss the days people actually followed the rule "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

That's never been a good rule. Ever.

How about: treat others the way you want to be treated. That's a great rule that i hope Rifneno will follow.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

*sigh* I miss the days when this thread was free from people actually believing starbinger's bull****...

But Starbinger is bull****!

...oh wait

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

It's not headcanon that if you've never experienced something, you don't know what it's truly like. The entire Legion story was based on that concept.

Except every time you have one of those talks with Legion, he goes out of his way to say that he understands the concepts even if he doesn't experience them.

True, though that doesn't mean he truly knows what it's like. For example, I've never drunken alcohol, but I understand the concept of geting drunk. But since I will never drink, I will never actually experience it. Same goes with Catalyst towards pain: he knows it's a function of the nervous system, yet having none, will never know what pain truly is.

So I have to birth a child to understand/care that it's painful?

To truly know, yes. To know in the sense of it's one of the most painful things ever, no. However, you have experienced pain so can relate while the world's smartest supercomputer cannot. It can only theorize but never experience.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

*sigh* I miss the days when this thread was free from people actually believing starbinger's bull****...

But Starbinger is bull****!

...oh wait

He meant that it was free of people supporting him, which i have yet to do.

[Andromidius]

Shameless self bump.  Basically another form of your mind being screwed with in a video game - shooting game even!

Andromidius wrote...

Was playing Metro 2033. Really atmospheric game, really tense.

But my point here is this. There's a part where you're walking down a tunnel, and you bend down to listen to the pipes. You hear the echoy laughter of a child. Its exactly the same sound as the laugh you hear from the Child at the start of ME3.

Further reinforcement that the Child isn't real, and is a 'ghost' in Shepard's mind? It certainly joins up the dots for me, even if its not 'concrete proof'.

[Rifneno]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

*sigh* I miss the days when this thread was free from people actually believing starbinger's bull****...

But Starbinger is bull****!

...oh wait

He meant that it was free of people supporting him, which i have yet to do.

Don't speak for me.  I meant exactly what I said.  Free of people believing his asinine story about saving everyone by killing everyone.  The entire story is dumber than a Pauly Shore movie and it blows my mind that anyone believes it, or believes that he believes it.  The whole thing is a trick to get Shepard indoctrinated.  That's the point of this thread.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Schachmatt wrote...
if each Reaper retained the memories of the harvested  species, the Reapers would turn on the Catalyst. By memories, they mean the essance, or what that species was, are preserved in each Reaper.

For all we know, they are billions of minds: Legion on the reapers nature

I guess a mind contains memories?

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

We're both right, but just by seeing it in different ways.

Sorry, no. I don't headcanon and ignore the simple meaning of words in our discussion.

Memories can be of the race. For example: the asari are a mammalian race that valued democracy, ran with a system of city states, and believed everything to be connected by some unknown force.
That's a memory of the race, not the individuals, and since Catalyst is trying to preserve the races, not individuals, it's not headcanon to go with my interpretation of a word that can mean more than one thing.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 24 décembre 2012 - 06:43 .

[Schachmatt123]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

It's not headcanon that if you've never experienced something, you don't know what it's truly like. The entire Legion story was based on that concept.

Except every time you have one of those talks with Legion, he goes out of his way to say that he understands the concepts even if he doesn't experience them.

True, though that doesn't mean he truly knows what it's like. For example, I've never drunken alcohol, but I understand the concept of geting drunk. But since I will never drink, I will never actually experience it. Same goes with Catalyst towards pain: he knows it's a function of the nervous system, yet having none, will never know what pain truly is.

So I have to birth a child to understand/care that it's painful?

To truly know, yes. To know in the sense of it's one of the most painful things ever, no. However, you have experienced pain so can relate while the world's smartest supercomputer cannot. It can only theorize but never experience.

I've never experienced being steamrolled by a steamroller. But I know that I would not want it ... By your logic, I'm a fool because I've never experienced it. How can I say I wouldn't like it?

Yes, exactely. By the expirience from other people who had witnessed such accidents. The billions of minds inside each reaper (as I have proven with ingame evidence earlier) has witnessed the pain and suffering of the organics and that it is not pleasant. So that's how the catalyst does know. That he knows is a fact.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

*sigh* I miss the days when this thread was free from people actually believing starbinger's bull****...

But Starbinger is bull****!

...oh wait

He meant that it was free of people supporting him, which i have yet to do.

Don't speak for me.  I meant exactly what I said.  Free of people believing his asinine story about saving everyone by killing everyone.  The entire story is dumber than a Pauly Shore movie and it blows my mind that anyone believes it, or believes that he believes it.  The whole thing is a trick to get Shepard indoctrinated.  That's the point of this thread.

I concur, I did presume that's what you ment.  I was just being silly, while also agreeing with you.

Another reason why the 'Catalyst' is a child?  Children are avid liars, and not very good at hiding their tall tales either.  And yet adults will often believe a child, even after being repeatedly stung in the past, due to some instinct to protect the young.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Rifneno wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

*sigh* I miss the days when this thread was free from people actually believing starbinger's bull****...

But Starbinger is bull****!

...oh wait

He meant that it was free of people supporting him, which i have yet to do.

Don't speak for me.  I meant exactly what I said.  Free of people believing his asinine story about saving everyone by killing everyone.  The entire story is dumber than a Pauly Shore movie and it blows my mind that anyone believes it, or believes that he believes it.  The whole thing is a trick to get Shepard indoctrinated.  That's the point of this thread.

You seem to be missing the point where I do not agree with his logic, but can simply see his POV. In order to destroy your enemy, you must undersatand them. Not go "Everything he says is bonkers."

[BleedingUranium]

Andromidius wrote...

Another reason why the 'Catalyst' is a child?  Children are avid liars, and not very good at hiding their tall tales either.  And yet adults will often believe a child, even after being repeatedly stung in the past, due to some instinct to protect the young.

That's a great point, I'd never realized that!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Schachmatt wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

It's not headcanon that if you've never experienced something, you don't know what it's truly like. The entire Legion story was based on that concept.

Except every time you have one of those talks with Legion, he goes out of his way to say that he understands the concepts even if he doesn't experience them.

True, though that doesn't mean he truly knows what it's like. For example, I've never drunken alcohol, but I understand the concept of geting drunk. But since I will never drink, I will never actually experience it. Same goes with Catalyst towards pain: he knows it's a function of the nervous system, yet having none, will never know what pain truly is.

So I have to birth a child to understand/care that it's painful?

To truly know, yes. To know in the sense of it's one of the most painful things ever, no. However, you have experienced pain so can relate while the world's smartest supercomputer cannot. It can only theorize but never experience.

I've never experienced being steamrolled by a steamroller. But I know that I would not want it ... By your logic, I'm a fool because I've never experienced it. How can I say I wouldn't like it?

Yes, exactely. By the expirience from other people who had witnessed such accidents. The billions of minds inside each reaper (as I have proven with ingame evidence earlier) has witnessed the pain and suffering of the organics and that it is not pleasant. So that's how the catalyst does know. That he knows is a fact.

Again, you've felt pain, and you've seen what a steamroller can do. Your mind, experiencing both events, maskes the connection that it would not be pleasant. And I believe I've changed my statement to "Even if he does know, he doesn't care because it's for the greater good." (His logic, not mine)

[HellishFiend]

Andromidius wrote...

Shameless self bump.  Basically another form of your mind being screwed with in a video game - shooting game even!

Andromidius wrote...

Was playing Metro 2033. Really atmospheric game, really tense.

But my point here is this. There's a part where you're walking down a tunnel, and you bend down to listen to the pipes. You hear the echoy laughter of a child. Its exactly the same sound as the laugh you hear from the Child at the start of ME3.

Further reinforcement that the Child isn't real, and is a 'ghost' in Shepard's mind? It certainly joins up the dots for me, even if its not 'concrete proof'.

Something a bit more applicable to the subject matter would be the fact that in Arrival, Kenson lets out a faded, echoey scream after she blows herself to bits. Kenson's scream is symmetrical in every way to the child's scream after his shuttle blows up in the prologue. 

[Andromidius]

That too, yeah.

[Schachmatt123]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Schachmatt wrote...
if each Reaper retained the memories of the harvested  species, the Reapers would turn on the Catalyst. By memories, they mean the essance, or what that species was, are preserved in each Reaper.

For all we know, they are billions of minds: Legion on the reapers nature

I guess a mind contains memories?

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

We're both right, but just by seeing it in different ways.

Sorry, no. I don't headcanon and ignore the simple meaning of words in our discussion.

Memories can be of the race. For example: the asari are a mammalian race that valued democracy, ran with a system of city states, and believed everything to be connected by some unknown force.
That's a memory of the race, not the individuals, and since Catalyst is trying to preserve the races, not individuals, it's not headcanon to go with my interpretation of a word that can mean more than one thing.

Yes, it is headcanon. You deliberately exclude several meanings of a simple word that don't fit your headcanon.

Anyway, I'm done with you. Enjoy your headcanon, I'll stick to facts (e.g. deliberately causing pain and suffering while it could be easely avoided) and established lore.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Schachmatt wrote...
Yes, it is headcanon. You deliberately exclude several meanings of a simple word that don't fit your headcanon.

Anyway, I'm done with you. Enjoy your headcanon, I'll stick to facts (e.g. deliberately causing pain and suffering while it could be easely avoided) and established lore.

Before you usher me a way, one  thing:
1) How is memory of a race headcanon yet memory of individual isn't? Please explain it without using "it just is" or "your ignoring lore" because the answer to both is no.

[demersel]

HellishFiend wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Shameless self bump.  Basically another form of your mind being screwed with in a video game - shooting game even!

Andromidius wrote...

Was playing Metro 2033. Really atmospheric game, really tense.

But my point here is this. There's a part where you're walking down a tunnel, and you bend down to listen to the pipes. You hear the echoy laughter of a child. Its exactly the same sound as the laugh you hear from the Child at the start of ME3.

Further reinforcement that the Child isn't real, and is a 'ghost' in Shepard's mind? It certainly joins up the dots for me, even if its not 'concrete proof'.

Something a bit more applicable to the subject matter would be the fact that in Arrival, Kenson lets out a faded, echoey scream after she blows herself to bits. Kenson's scream is symmetrical in every way to the child's scream after his shuttle blows up in the prologue. 

Kenson doesn't scream if you shoot her. The moral here is clear - when unsure - always shoot it. 

Modifié par demersel, 24 décembre 2012 - 06:58 .

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

Kenson doesn't scream if you shoot her. The moral here is clear - when unsure - always shoot it. 

I've never not shot her.  Even with my most paragon characters.  It's one of those lawful-stupid choices.

[BleedingUranium]

Schachmatt wrote...

Anyway, I'm done with you. Enjoy your headcanon, I'll stick to facts (e.g. deliberately causing pain and suffering while it could be easely avoided) and established lore.

Just like, if organic/synthetic conflict was truly the problem, why don't the Reapers just come in an kill all synthetics every so often? Or come in force and tell the galaxy they'll get Reaped if they build synthetics? Why make it much more complicated, ineffective, and harder to do? It's worse for everyone involved.

Because it's a lie, that problem doesn't exist, and it's not what they Reapers goals are.

[demersel]

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

Kenson doesn't scream if you shoot her. The moral here is clear - when unsure - always shoot it. 

I've never not shot her.  Even with my most paragon characters.  It's one of those lawful-stupid choices.

Exacltly. Me neither. 

Omage DLC - where being lawfull-stupid clealry ends well. )))

Modifié par demersel, 24 décembre 2012 - 07:02 .

[HellishFiend]

demersel wrote...


Kenson doesn't scream if you shoot her. The moral here is clear - when unsure - always shoot it. 

Check your facts; the scream occurs regardless. It's even more suspect that she still screams after being shot (and ostensibly killed) and blown into nothingness on top of that. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Rifneno wrote...

demersel wrote...

Kenson doesn't scream if you shoot her. The moral here is clear - when unsure - always shoot it. 

I've never not shot her.  Even with my most paragon characters.  It's one of those lawful-stupid choices.

I'm not suprised. You'd shoot anything that disagrees with you.
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...909893&pid=15.1

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 24 décembre 2012 - 07:03 .

[demersel]

Rifneno wrote...
I've never not shot her.  Even with my most paragon characters.  It's one of those lawful-stupid choices.

It is also something a Nolan's batman would do. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

demersel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
I've never not shot her.  Even with my most paragon characters.  It's one of those lawful-stupid choices.

It is also something a Nolan's batman would do. 

Um, his one rule was don't kill anybody. That's what made the criminals more afraid of Joker than him.