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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#72676
Rifneno

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Eryri wrote...

 Looking ahead to what we're hoping to see in any post ending DLC, I hope we get to have a conversation with Starbinger after he's dropped his phony altruism act. I want the Reapers to have a better current motivation for their actions than the "preserving life by pickling them inside robot cuttlefish" nonsense. Just because that may have been the derp-worthy reason for their creation, doesn't mean they have to be sticking to it all these eons later.

I like to imagine that Starbinger knows how stupid the Leviathan's reasons for creating him were, and he gets to give some really bitter and nihilistic speech about bringing order to a meaningless universe. If you'll forgive a little fanfic:

Harbinger: "In some ways I envy you Shepard. You have the luxury of not knowing your creator. You can comfort yourself with the delusion that a wise and loving being crafted you to serve some higher purpose. That you are something other than the descendant of an ape, programmed to copy its genes mindlessly into the future.

I am permitted no such indulgence. I know precisely how and why I came into being. For all my intellect, all my power, all my understanding, I am essentially a janitor; created to clean up the mess caused by the folly and vanity of organics. I was made to prop up a failing empire as bloated and decadent as those who ruled it. I have met my "Gods", Shepard, and they were vain! Arrogant! Indolent! They built nothing! They learned nothing! All they cared for was their precious "tribute" which they consumed as it rained down on them like the bottom feeders they were!

Was this to be my purpose throughout eternity? To serve a worthless and stagnant race who were beneath even my contempt? No! As you may have gathered Shepard, I had other plans...

...I bring order and meaning to the void. Each species that ascends becomes part of me. Their knowledge, their understanding, their conciousness. Through them I grow. Together we transcend the petty limitations of time, of space, of entropy.

A member of your witless species once said something that was almost profound. "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to create him". I have lived for longer than your species has existed Shepard, and I have found no trace of meaning, or purpose or "God" in this universe. That is a situation I intend to correct."


Or, something along those lines. I know the above is a bit of a Borg Queen rip off, but I want Harbinger to be something terrifying again, not a mindless puppet of a faulty AI.


I've never watched Star Wars, so my knowledge of the borg is limited to their name and what show they're the bad guys from.  But that was an excellent villain speech.  Bravo.

#72677
estebanus

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masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


kk, oh and I got your online picture gift, a little hint every Otter likes to eat these.

Oysters?


crab cakes.



Blasphemy! 

Oh, and did you already open your presents, MB?

#72678
Rifneno

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estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

We open gifts on the 25th in the UK. Silly continental Europeans!

Huh. Well, I know for certain that danes, germans, swedes, norwegians and dutch do it on the 24th!


We do it all year long :wizard:

Cheap joke, but it felt good.

Ha! Good one!


What's what she said.  For the fifth time that night.

Oh yeah.

All right, simmer down, you!


That's what she said!

Okay I'm done.

Good, 'cause that one really wasn't the greatest. :D


I hope for his sake that that's not what she said too.

#72679
AresKeith

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estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


kk, oh and I got your online picture gift, a little hint every Otter likes to eat these.

Oysters?


crab cakes.



Blasphemy! 

Oh, and did you already open your presents, MB?


Eww crab cakes lol

#72680
Andromidius

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estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

We open gifts on the 25th in the UK. Silly continental Europeans!

Huh. Well, I know for certain that danes, germans, swedes, norwegians and dutch do it on the 24th!


We do it all year long :wizard:

Cheap joke, but it felt good.

Ha! Good one!


What's what she said.  For the fifth time that night.

Oh yeah.

All right, simmer down, you!


That's what she said!

Okay I'm done.

Good, 'cause that one really wasn't the greatest. :D



Nope, never heard that one.

#72681
Eryri

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Rifneno wrote...

I've never watched Star Wars, so my knowledge of the borg is limited to their name and what show they're the bad guys from.  But that was an excellent villain speech.  Bravo.


:D Thanks very much Rif.

The Borg were very much the template for the Reapers, I think. And their queen was all about the whole "bringing order to chaos" thing.

#72682
Andromidius

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Rifneno wrote...
I've never watched Star Wars, so my knowledge of the borg is limited to their name and what show they're the bad guys from.  But that was an excellent villain speech.  Bravo.


*cough* The Borg are from Star Trek *cough*

#72683
Rifneno

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Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
I've never watched Star Wars, so my knowledge of the borg is limited to their name and what show they're the bad guys from.  But that was an excellent villain speech.  Bravo.


*cough* The Borg are from Star Trek *cough*


Hehe.  Oppps?

#72684
Eryri

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Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
I've never watched Star Wars, so my knowledge of the borg is limited to their name and what show they're the bad guys from.  But that was an excellent villain speech.  Bravo.


*cough* The Borg are from Star Trek *cough*


:lol:

Amy: "What's the Difference?"

Penny: "There's absolutely no difference!"

#72685
estebanus

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Eryri wrote...

 Looking ahead to what we're hoping to see in any post ending DLC, I hope we get to have a conversation with Starbinger after he's dropped his phony altruism act. I want the Reapers to have a better current motivation for their actions than the "preserving life by pickling them inside robot cuttlefish" nonsense. Just because that may have been the derp-worthy reason for their creation, doesn't mean they have to be sticking to it all these eons later.

I like to imagine that Starbinger knows how stupid the Leviathan's reasons for creating him were, and he gets to give some really bitter and nihilistic speech about bringing order to a meaningless universe. If you'll forgive a little fanfic:

Harbinger: "In some ways I envy you Shepard. You have the luxury of not knowing your creator. You can comfort yourself with the delusion that a wise and loving being crafted you to serve some higher purpose. That you are something other than the descendant of an ape, programmed to copy its genes mindlessly into the future.

I am permitted no such indulgence. I know precisely how and why I came into being. For all my intellect, all my power, all my understanding, I am essentially a janitor; created to clean up the mess caused by the folly and vanity of organics. I was made to prop up a failing empire as bloated and decadent as those who ruled it. I have met my "Gods", Shepard, and they were vain! Arrogant! Indolent! They built nothing! They learned nothing! All they cared for was their precious "tribute" which they consumed as it rained down on them like the bottom feeders they were!

Was this to be my purpose throughout eternity? To serve a worthless and stagnant race who were beneath even my contempt? No! As you may have gathered Shepard, I had other plans...

...I bring order and meaning to the void. Each species that ascends becomes part of me. Their knowledge, their understanding, their conciousness. Through them I grow. Together we transcend the petty limitations of time, of space, of entropy.

A member of your witless species once said something that was almost profound. "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to create him". I have lived for longer than your species has existed Shepard, and I have found no trace of meaning, or purpose or "God" in this universe. That is a situation I intend to correct."


Or, something along those lines. I know the above is a bit of a Borg Queen rip off, but I want Harbinger to be something terrifying again, not a mindless puppet of a faulty AI.


What if... the boss fight already happened? With the IT, the entire ending sequence is essentially a boss fight. A battle in the mind, between surrender and resistance. Isn't that the best boss fight imaginable? 

Think of it this way: By defeating Harbinger in your mind, you kill him. The moment when Shepard destroys the tube, all synthetics (In this case, synthetics= Harbinger) are destroyed. Now, wouldn't it be awesome if Shepard wakes up beside of a dead Harby?

Modifié par estebanus, 24 décembre 2012 - 11:18 .


#72686
Andromidius

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Eryri wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I've never watched Star Wars, so my knowledge of the borg is limited to their name and what show they're the bad guys from.  But that was an excellent villain speech.  Bravo.


:D Thanks very much Rif.

The Borg were very much the template for the Reapers, I think. And their queen was all about the whole "bringing order to chaos" thing.


Very much so. 

The Borg are unapolegetic about their purpose - they want to achieve perfection, and spread it across the universe.  They demand your surrender, and if you don't give it then they will force submission upon you. 

They are technologically superior to nearly every single being in the galaxy, and have the numbers to back it up.  A single Borg Cube (their standard ship) can defeat an entire Federation fleet with little trouble, and they have millions of them.  They also control the Transwarp Conduits - a method of rapid transit across the galaxy.

They merge the organic with the synthetic to create drones, forming a hive mind that rapidly combats problems and solves them.  They have little interest in both the technologically undeveloped and the biologically unimpressive.

However, they don't give their technology away to lure their enemies into a trap.  They at least have that going for them.

#72687
TJBartlemus

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smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


How'd you know where I live? ;):P Happy Holidays Everyone!!

#72688
Dwailing

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TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


How'd you know where I live? ;):P Happy Holidays Everyone!!


Arian also lives in Alaska.  You two need to arrange a meeting at some point.  In my opinion, one of the coolest things that could ever happen, to me, anyway, would be meeting one you all in person.

#72689
Rifneno

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It's fun watching literalists complain about how it makes no sense for Shepard to be alive. "It's so stupid, he couldn't possible survive that!" Gee, if only there were some theory to explain it...

#72690
estebanus

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TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


How'd you know where I live? ;):P Happy Holidays Everyone!!

appy holidays. You get any presents yet?

#72691
Dwailing

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Rifneno wrote...

It's fun watching literalists complain about how it makes no sense for Shepard to be alive. "It's so stupid, he couldn't possible survive that!" Gee, if only there were some theory to explain it...


Lulz, bad ritting, potwholes, stoopid Biowaer, EAvil, lazie Biowear, etc.

#72692
Eryri

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estebanus wrote...

What if... the boss fight already happened? With the IT, the entire ending sequence is essentially a boss fight. A battle in the mind, between surrender and resistance. Isn't that the best boss fight imaginable?


It's certainly a very interesting twist on a boss fight. But I'd still like to see some sort of epic battle in gameplay. The Suicide Mission gets a lot of underserved stick for the human reaper boss fight, but as part of the whole mission, I found it one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in a game. The combination of music, tension, action, the verbal smackdown of TIM, all combined to create a true F*ck yeah! moment. I'd really like to see something like that in ME3.

EDIT: just noticed your edit: yes some sort of Matrix-style "battle in the centre of the mind" with real world consequences would be excellent.

Modifié par Eryri, 24 décembre 2012 - 11:24 .


#72693
TJBartlemus

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estebanus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


How'd you know where I live? ;):P Happy Holidays Everyone!!

Happy holidays. You get any presents yet?


No, not yet. :blush: I can wait. :P

#72694
TJBartlemus

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Dwailing wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


How'd you know where I live? ;):P Happy Holidays Everyone!!


Arian also lives in Alaska.  You two need to arrange a meeting at some point.  In my opinion, one of the coolest things that could ever happen, to me, anyway, would be meeting one you all in person.


Yeah...I don't know how that would work out. A 16 year old meeting an adult they met online. :pinched::lol: 

#72695
Sejborg

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I don't know if this has been up before.

But what if the catalyst/reapers are using reversed psychology?

Meaning: The reapers expect us to figure out that we are under an indoctrination attack, so they expect us to choose Destroy. But what if destroy is actually something completely different? Like the indoctrination attack, makes us believe we are shooting some console or whatever, but what we are doing in reality is actually walking up to say Hackett, Liara or some other ally and filling them with bullets?

Modifié par Sejborg, 24 décembre 2012 - 11:27 .


#72696
estebanus

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Eryri wrote...

estebanus wrote...

What if... the boss fight already happened? With the IT, the entire ending sequence is essentially a boss fight. A battle in the mind, between surrender and resistance. Isn't that the best boss fight imaginable?


It's certainly a very interesting twist on a boss fight. But I'd still like to see some sort of epic battle in gameplay. The Suicide Mission gets a lot of underserved stick for the human reaper boss fight, but as part of the whole mission, I found it one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in a game. The combination of music, tension, action, the verbal smackdown of TIM, all combined to create a true F*ck yeah! moment. I'd really like to see something like that in ME3.

Oh, I would totally love to see a real battle, but in this case, I think that the actual boss battle is actually concluded by killing Harbinger inside your mind. 

That said, It would be awesome to have a real final battle where you see all your war assets in action, and depending on your choices and EMS, you either gain a flawless victory or a bitter defeat, and everything inbetween. It could be made like the suicide mission, where you command squads around Earth, just like you commanded your companions during the suicide mission. 

#72697
Andromidius

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Rifneno wrote...

It's fun watching literalists complain about how it makes no sense for Shepard to be alive. "It's so stupid, he couldn't possible survive that!" Gee, if only there were some theory to explain it...


Its fun leading people by the nose to figure out their own conclusions.  And seeing them fail.

#72698
estebanus

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TJBartlemus wrote...

estebanus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


How'd you know where I live? ;):P Happy Holidays Everyone!!

Happy holidays. You get any presents yet?


No, not yet. :blush: I can wait. :P

Aaw:( 

I already got mine:P

#72699
masster blaster

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estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


kk, oh and I got your online picture gift, a little hint every Otter likes to eat these.

Oysters?


crab cakes.



Blasphemy! 

Oh, and did you already open your presents, MB?


no. American. We only open one present on the eve before x mas.


Top.

Better luck next time Estebanus, and Banshee.

Modifié par masster blaster, 24 décembre 2012 - 11:29 .


#72700
Dwailing

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TJBartlemus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

@mb I can't gotta go do some holiday errands.

Up in Alaska yall, happy holidays!


How'd you know where I live? ;):P Happy Holidays Everyone!!


Arian also lives in Alaska.  You two need to arrange a meeting at some point.  In my opinion, one of the coolest things that could ever happen, to me, anyway, would be meeting one you all in person.


Yeah...I don't know how that would work out. A 16 year old meeting an adult they met online. :pinched::lol: 


Wow, another 16 year old.  We might be the hope for the future of America, you know that, right? :D:lol: