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[Home run MF]

Rifneno wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

KneeTheCap wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

The Reapers want test subjects to analize a species and use that knowledge in their ground forces.
Remember when in ME2 TIM says the Collectors where abducting special subjects?
If you wanna get the best banshee would you rather have the powerfull Aria T'Loak or an inexperienced asari maiden?

You mean....analyze? 

 Sorry I'm not a native English speaker

Also can I add this to my point Your worlds will become our laboratories - Harby

That was a mistranslation.  It was supposed to be "Your endings will become our lavatories."

Does that make the starbrat an a**wipe?

[MaximizedAction]

protognosis wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

protognosis wrote...

That's all I can think of. Maybe Biotic brains have something different than normal brains that could influence indoctrination attempts.

I would be disappointed if that were the explaination: I thought biotic powers didn't appear the first time with the Protheans. Therefore, if biotic brains had a potential to withstand indoc. attempts, then over all these cycles, some cycle should've managed to defeat the Reapers. After all, with every cycle there then should've been more and more survivors, so that at some point those folks could've built a strong enough force.

I meant that there could be something in biotic brains that could be exploited to make TIMs indoctrination attempts better and it doesn't show up except in really strong buotic users.

Oh, sorry then, I misunderstood.

That would be an easy question to answer if the final confrontation with TIM were real. Because then Adept Shep's should've been able to resist TIM. But with that maybe being a hallucination, I don't know from the in-game material.

So much about TIM and Cerberus remained unclear...hope they tackle that in the DLC.

[Lyria]

Tell me about it.
There is so much Bioware could clear up about Cerberus that would fill in so many story blanks. More information on their motives, leadership, etc would help us understand why they are doing what they are doing. Could just be they want the Biotics to make phantoms, Phoenix adepts, etc. I hope its something more than forced conscription.

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

protognosis wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

protognosis wrote...

That's all I can think of. Maybe Biotic brains have something different than normal brains that could influence indoctrination attempts.

I would be disappointed if that were the explaination: I thought biotic powers didn't appear the first time with the Protheans. Therefore, if biotic brains had a potential to withstand indoc. attempts, then over all these cycles, some cycle should've managed to defeat the Reapers. After all, with every cycle there then should've been more and more survivors, so that at some point those folks could've built a strong enough force.

I meant that there could be something in biotic brains that could be exploited to make TIMs indoctrination attempts better and it doesn't show up except in really strong buotic users.

Oh, sorry then, I misunderstood.

That would be an easy question to answer if the final confrontation with TIM were real. Because then Adept Shep's should've been able to resist TIM. But with that maybe being a hallucination, I don't know from the in-game material.

So much about TIM and Cerberus remained unclear...hope they tackle that in the DLC.

I would rather suggest that TIM is interested in the biotic powers themselves. In ME2 it was pretty clear most of the "accidents" were caused by Cerberus to ensure humans get more and more biotic abilities.
When Harbinger assumes direct control it uses only biotic abilities, and Aria even one shots one of these in one of the comics.
In invasion it's said one of the Generals didn't thought she would be that strong and they give her biotic inhibitors around her hands and legs. But can escape when they tried to apply a mental inhibitor as she was able to incapacitate them while hanging from the ceiling.

[KneeTheCap]

You guys read that thread I made, asking why one doesn't believe in IT ? It's kinda interesting to read the answers, and it has remained remarkably civil, too.

[Macross]

The whole biotic Aria thing, well here's another explanation. Firstly, who plays Aria, Carrie Anne Moss of course. Now who is she best known for playing. Trinity from Matrix of course and the dev team did state that the end of the Matrix was a big influence... So this is my reasoning.

TIM (and by extension the Reapers and their evil over lord the Architect) is afraid that if Aria gets to Earth she'll end up kissing Shepard while his lying under the rubble and then Shepard will wake up and (ala Matrix) jump into Harbinger, deleting his programming and thus making all the Reaper run away in fear....

So obvious.

[Rifneno]

Macross wrote...

The whole biotic Aria thing, well here's another explanation. Firstly, who plays Aria, Carrie Anne Moss of course. Now who is she best known for playing. Trinity from Matrix of course and the dev team did state that the end of the Matrix was a big influence... So this is my reasoning.

TIM (and by extension the Reapers and their evil over lord the Architect) is afraid that if Aria gets to Earth she'll end up kissing Shepard while his lying under the rubble and then Shepard will wake up and (ala Matrix) jump into Harbinger, deleting his programming and thus making all the Reaper run away in fear....

So obvious.

Makes more sense than the literalist ending.

[RavenEyry]

KneeTheCap wrote...

You guys read that thread I made, asking why one doesn't believe in IT ? It's kinda interesting to read the answers, and it has remained remarkably civil, too.

There appears to be the usual circular logic of 'It must be bad writing cos Bioware are bad writers. I know they're bad writers because of the ending.' Always annoys me.

And also a healthy crop of people who basically say 'It doesn't make sense to me so everyone who agrees with it must be some retarded fanfic writing crybaby.'

I generally avoid threads like yours because I always want to punch several participants.

[KneeTheCap]

RavenEyry wrote...

KneeTheCap wrote...

You guys read that thread I made, asking why one doesn't believe in IT ? It's kinda interesting to read the answers, and it has remained remarkably civil, too.

There appears to be the usual circular logic of 'It must be bad writing cos Bioware are bad writers. I know they're bad writers because of the ending.' Always annoys me.

And also a healthy crop of people who basically say 'It doesn't make sense to me so everyone who agrees with it must be some retarded fanfic writing crybaby.'

I generally avoid threads like yours because I always want to punch several participants.

Most odd I find the people that say X disproved Y, but do not offer any evidence or proof towards their claim. That I do not understand.

Sorry of the off-topic, though.

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

There appears to be the usual circular logic of 'It must be bad writing cos Bioware are bad writers. I know they're bad writers because of the ending.' Always annoys me.

There is nothing circular about that. If a writer is bad, his writing is going to be bad. A bad writer can be recognized by his bad writing. There is nothing circular about that.


It is a well known fact by the way that the video-game industry does not have a good reputation when it comes to writing. Most video-games have mediocre writing from mediocre writers. It is just a fact that a lot of second-class writers who can't get a job as a real writer (for Hollywood for example) eventually get jobs as writers for video-games. The production of a video-game is expensive and it's a lot cheaper to hire a second-class writer than a first-grade Hollywood writer.

It's the same with voice-acting by the way, though this is slowly starting to change. Most video-game developers hire B-grade actors or students from a theatre school to do the voice-acting in their video-games. They often don't hire famous first-class actors, because they are too expensive. Though, like I said, this is slowly starting to change. Mass Effect is the evidence of that change, Mass Effect has a lot of big names as voice-actors.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 08 août 2012 - 03:07 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Bad writing is your opinion. Why do you go on presenting your opinion as if it's fact?

[BlazingZephyr]

Hello again, ITers. Now that I am among the living once more, I shall repost last night's speculation drop. Some of it's old, but fresh troll-free perspective couldn't hurt.

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Um... don't know if this has been
mentioed before, but has anyone noticed that there is no beam when the
mako next to Shep blows up?

Edit: Actually, none of the explosions in that scene have a beam with them except Shepard geting knocked out.

BlazingZephyr wrote...

More SPECULATION:

So, I'm
playing the beginning of ME3, to finish a FemShep Trilogy runthrough and
to test the Firefight pack, and I noticed something: The little warning
next to the vent the Kid is in has a picture of a lightning bolt...
hitting someone's head. Duh duh duuuuh!!!

BlazingZephyr wrote...

More Speculation, but not necessarily IT (forgive the old questions, just looking for fresh perspective and non-trolling):

Cerberus.
We all know they sort of went from "End justify means" to "Derp,
control Reapers," and this is often credited to bad writing/rush.
However, if BioWare was oblivious to this odd shift in directive, how
come the characters weren't? Shepard often states (indirectly) how
idiotic TIM's actions are and questions the reasons for them, but the
only explanation we are given is indoctrination.

When would TIM
have been indoctrinated? He was not in prolonged contact with the
artifact that gave him the magic eyes, and he is smart enough to avoid
Reaper tech. I haven't read the novels, but I doubt he would spend much
time in the presence of the Collector Base. Could some type of
prologue/cerberus-related DLC come along to clarify this a little?
Maybe, since it's somewhat Indoctrination-related, IT could fit in?

BlazingZephyr wrote...

MOAR Possible speculation:

When
asked if there will be more Citadel areas added AFTER Leviathan, Mike
Gamble said that he couldn't tell us (which is practically a "yes").
Could this open up the possibility of including Keeper tunnels?

EDIT:
Also, I went off on a tangent wit my last post. My issue wasn't so much
the indoctrination as it was the apparent awareness of BioWare that TIM
is so out of character.

EDIT 2:This could also be said about
the Crucible blueprints on Mars. Shepard can ask why the hell we are
JUST now finding them, and is given a very vague answer. Why would we
even be able to question these things if BioWare wasn't aware of these
oddities? Lack of choice and dialogue options is somewhat of a theme in
ME3, so why give us the ability to question these inconsistencies, only
to be met with obvious evasions of them (i.e. Process of elimination,
control is better, bleh)?

[The Heretic of Time]

Macross wrote...

The whole biotic Aria thing, well here's another explanation. Firstly, who plays Aria, Carrie Anne Moss of course. Now who is she best known for playing. Trinity from Matrix of course and the dev team did state that the end of the Matrix was a big influence... So this is my reasoning.

TIM (and by extension the Reapers and their evil over lord the Architect) is afraid that if Aria gets to Earth she'll end up kissing Shepard while his lying under the rubble and then Shepard will wake up and (ala Matrix) jump into Harbinger, deleting his programming and thus making all the Reaper run away in fear....

So obvious.

Brilliant. 

[The Heretic of Time]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Bad writing is your opinion. Why do you go on presenting your opinion as if it's fact?

Well it is partly opinion and partly fact. If a writer just gives the finger to some well-established writing rules than you can't really expect anything good to come out of that. There are some rules in writing and those rules are there for a reason. If you don't keep true to those rules, your story is gonna suck, that's a fact.

Both ME3 and ME as a trilogy has breaken some of the more obvious rules in a way that just isn't acceptable. This is why so many many many people think the writing of Mass Effect 3 sucks.


Sure, I think the writing in ME3 sucks and that's just my opinion. But it's an opinion that is shared by many many fans. Why do you think so many fans are so upset with the writing of ME3? I think the fact that the writers didn't stick to the rules, resulting in a messy story, could be one of the biggest reasons.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

More SPECULATION:

So, I'm playing the beginning of ME3, to finish a FemShep Trilogy runthrough and to test the Firefight pack, and I noticed something: The little warning next to the vent the Kid is in has a picture of a lightning bolt... hitting someone's head. Duh duh duuuuh!!!

This appears everywhere you see the boy. Or most odd things in the game really.

The lightning bolt hitting the head sign only appears near the vent in Vancouver. What's interesting, is that if you watch the E3 demo video, the sign wasn't there yet. So it was specifically added later.

It's also really cool how many people were saying vent boy could be unreal and a sign of indoctrination back when we only had the demo and not the full version of the game.
 

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 08 août 2012 - 03:29 .

[BlazingZephyr]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

More SPECULATION:

So, I'm playing the beginning of ME3, to finish a FemShep Trilogy runthrough and to test the Firefight pack, and I noticed something: The little warning next to the vent the Kid is in has a picture of a lightning bolt... hitting someone's head. Duh duh duuuuh!!!

This appears everywhere you see the boy. Or most odd things in the game really.

The lightning bolt hitting the head sign only appears near the vent in Vancouver. What's interesting, is that if you watch the ME3 demo videos, the sign wasn't there yet. So it was specifically added later.

It's also really cool how many people were saying vent boy could be unreal and a sign of indoctrination back when we only had the demo and not the full version of the game.
 

Actually, it was in the demo. www.youtube.com/watch

Go to 2:30

EDIT: Oh, crap. In the E3 demo, it's not. They used the same room too, but just a different way of getting in.

Modifié par BlazingZephyr, 08 août 2012 - 03:27 .

[Home run MF]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Bad writing is your opinion. Why do you go on presenting your opinion as if it's fact?

Well it is partly opinion and partly fact. If a writer just gives the finger to some well-established writing rules than you can't really expect anything good to come out of that. There are some rules in writing and those rules are there for a reason. If you don't keep true to those rules, your story is gonna suck, that's a fact.

Both ME3 and ME as a trilogy has breaken some of the more obvious rules in a way that just isn't acceptable. This is why so many many many people think the writing of Mass Effect 3 sucks.


Sure, I think the writing in ME3 sucks and that's just my opinion. But it's an opinion that is shared by many many fans. Why do you think so many fans are so upset with the writing of ME3? I think the fact that the writers didn't stick to the rules, resulting in a messy story, could be one of the biggest reasons.

So the majority is always right and we are not allowed to have our own opinion or disagree with yours?
Oh, I see you have a control banner, nevermind...

[DoomsdayDevice]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

EDIT: Oh, crap. In the E3 demo, it's not. They used the same room too, but just a different way of getting in.

I was going to say that. I was talking about the video where they dropped in through a hole in the roof. =)

Okay, sorted, the E3 demo. Let me revise my previous post.

[The Heretic of Time]

Home run MF wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Bad writing is your opinion. Why do you go on presenting your opinion as if it's fact?

Well it is partly opinion and partly fact. If a writer just gives the finger to some well-established writing rules than you can't really expect anything good to come out of that. There are some rules in writing and those rules are there for a reason. If you don't keep true to those rules, your story is gonna suck, that's a fact.

Both ME3 and ME as a trilogy has breaken some of the more obvious rules in a way that just isn't acceptable. This is why so many many many people think the writing of Mass Effect 3 sucks.


Sure, I think the writing in ME3 sucks and that's just my opinion. But it's an opinion that is shared by many many fans. Why do you think so many fans are so upset with the writing of ME3? I think the fact that the writers didn't stick to the rules, resulting in a messy story, could be one of the biggest reasons.

So the majority is always right and we are not allowed to have our own opinion or disagree with yours?
Oh, I see you have a control banner, nevermind...

*sigh* That's not what I said. Nice strawman you got there though.

And yeah, I have a control banner. Problem? I know that makes you folks think I'm indoctrinated. Whatever. I know who really is indoctrinated here.

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

It is a well known fact by the way that the video-game industry does not have a good reputation when it comes to writing.

But Bioware were generally considered to be good writers before the ending to ME3, which is why using it as proof they are bad writers is circular logic.

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

It is a well known fact by the way that the video-game industry does not have a good reputation when it comes to writing.

But Bioware were generally considered to be good writers before the ending to ME3, which is why using it as proof they are bad writers is circular logic.

Which baffles me to be honest, because BioWare's writing was never really all that good. Maybe for video-game standards it was good, but like I said, video-games generally don't have that good writing.


Drew Karpyshyn was a capable writer. He did a good job for KOTOR and ME1. He left during ME2 though and it shows. Mac Walters just isn't that good.

So no, you're wrong, it's not circular logic. It's just 1 + 1 = 2. Drew Karpyshyn leaving + Mac Walters not being as good = bad writing in ME3. It's not rocketscience.

[RavenEyry]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Drew Karpyshyn leaving + Mac Walters not being as good = bad writing in ME3. It's not rocketscience.

Mac Walters not being as good is just you're opinion though. You can't declare every possible flaw in ME3 to be the result of bad writing because of your personal feelings about Mac.

[The Heretic of Time]

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
Drew Karpyshyn leaving + Mac Walters not being as good = bad writing in ME3. It's not rocketscience.

Mac Walters not being as good is just you're opinion though. You can't declare every possible flaw in ME3 to be the result of bad writing because of your personal feelings about Mac.

Don't be silly. I have no personal feelings about Mac, I don't even know the guy.  I only know his writing, and it just isn't as good as Drew's. This is partly my opinion and partly a fact. The fact is that the writing in ME3 breaks a couple of important rules about writing. Breaking rules is not really something a capable writer would do. It is also a fact that ME3 contains more plotholes and retcons than ME1 and ME2 did.


And there are hardly any flaws in Mass Effect 3, EXCEPT FOR THE BAD WRITING.

Honestly, I love the gameplay in ME3. I love the characters in ME3. I love the environments in ME3. I love the atmosphere in ME3. It's just the writing that boggles my mind. It's just really really really BAD in comparison to ME1. 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 08 août 2012 - 03:43 .

[Home run MF]

Home run MF wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

So the majority is always right and we are not allowed to have our own opinion or disagree with yours?
Oh, I see you have a control banner, nevermind...

*sigh* That's not what I said. Nice strawman you got there though.

And yeah, I have a control banner. Problem? I know that makes you folks think I'm indoctrinated. Whatever. I know who really is indoctrinated here.

You stated bad writing as a fact because the majority of the fanbase thinks it is (personal biased opinion,even if it is by a group of people, it's not proof of anything).
And we say it's good writing based on other premises you don't want to assume as valid (this thread is full of them, documented and contrasted with in game lore).
And the control banner thing I was referring at the previous line I wrote, not if you are indoctrinated or not, I couldn't care less.

Modifié par Home run MF, 08 août 2012 - 03:48 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

EDIT: Oh, crap. In the E3 demo, it's not. They used the same room too, but just a different way of getting in.

Not having the sign could just be that they didn't to the details yet, it's quite different from what we got anyway.
What is interesting about the room is as with the E3 demo on the one wall it says "core engineering" followed by a "5" in the alien signs which is also rotated 90 degrees.
Also on the walls of the room behind the door that you have to force open there is this image in the release version:

which is pretty weird in itself.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 08 août 2012 - 03:49 .