80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

protognosis wrote...

Tell me about it.
There is so much Bioware could clear up about Cerberus that would fill in so many story blanks. More information on their motives, leadership, etc would help us understand why they are doing what they are doing. Could just be they want the Biotics to make phantoms, Phoenix adepts, etc. I hope its something more than forced conscription.

Well as I said already, Cerberus has been helping the Reapers, since TIM founded Cerberus.

Think
about it Cerberus was targeting galactic powers, economy, military, colony's,and never attacked the their own kind, unless they had to,
in order to keep believing what they are doing. If you read how the
Illusive Man came to be in the comics. It is clear they don"t need more
info, on why Cerberus are helping the Reapers.

What happened to the Crucible in your time? Why didn't the Protheans deploy it?
We were sabotaged from within. A splinter group argued we should dominate the Reapers rather than destroy them.
It fractured our order of battle. Later, we discovered the separatists were indoctrinated. 

What else does people need? In my country we have a saying white and bottled?

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing.

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination."

most of us already knew that Cerberus was going to betray Shepard, and humanity, once the Reapers came into the Galaxy.

Also I like it when TIM says to Shepard at the end..." I deticated my life to understand the Reapers, and the Crubile will alow me to Control them."

Um one It was only since ME2 when you actually started to study the Reapers, and when you did, it did not end well for you.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing.

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination."

But that is how Indoctrination has been shown to work throughout the whole series. It takes your ideals, who your are and twists it until you turn upon your friends because it to you seems like the right thing to do. The Indoctrinated person or group does not realize it is Indoctrinated, it thinks it is doing what is right, what is necesary.

[RavenEyry]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing.

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination."

I don't get how that's bad.

[masster blaster]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing.

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination."

But that is how Indoctrination has been shown to work throughout the whole series. It takes your ideals, who your are and twists it until you turn upon your friends because it to you seems like the right thing to do. The Indoctrinated person or group does not realize it is Indoctrinated, it thinks it is doing what is right, what is necesary.

Hence the endings, what is the right thing to do?

[BlazingZephyr]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing.

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination." They never even explain how or when he was indoctrinated: He was not in prolonged contact with the artifact that changed his eyes, he rebuilt Shepard to fight the Collecters, and he is smart enough to avoid Reaper tech.

Added this part. I said something earlier in my Speculation dump that relates to this. Lemme find it.

[Home run MF]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing. 

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination."

You are missing the point, they do not fight humanity to control Reapers, they fight humanity because the Reapers tell them to. Divide & Conquer? They have us fighting each other? Sound familiar?

Sometimes I wonder if I played the same game as everyone else.

Modifié par Home run MF, 08 août 2012 - 04:28 .

[BlazingZephyr]

[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

More Speculation, but not necessarily IT (forgive the old questions, just looking for fresh perspective and non-trolling):

Cerberus.
We all know they sort of went from "End justify means" to "Derp,
control Reapers," and this is often credited to bad writing/rush.
However, if BioWare was oblivious to this odd shift in directive, how
come the characters weren't? Shepard often states (indirectly) how
idiotic TIM's actions are and questions the reasons for them, but the
only explanation we are given is indoctrination.

When would TIM
have been indoctrinated? He was not in prolonged contact with the
artifact that gave him the magic eyes, and he is smart enough to avoid
Reaper tech. I haven't read the novels, but I doubt he would spend much
time in the presence of the Collector Base. Could some type of
prologue/cerberus-related DLC come along to clarify this a little?
Maybe, since it's somewhat Indoctrination-related, IT could fit in?[/quote]
[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

MOAR Possible speculation:

When
asked if there will be more Citadel areas added AFTER Leviathan, Mike
Gamble said that he couldn't tell us (which is practically a "yes").
Could this open up the possibility of including Keeper tunnels?

EDIT:
Also, I went off on a tangent with my last post. My issue wasn't so much
the indoctrination as it was the apparent awareness of BioWare that TIM
is so out of character.

EDIT 2:This could also be said about
the Crucible blueprints on Mars. Shepard can ask why the hell we are
JUST now finding them, and is given a very vague answer. Why would we
even be able to question these things if BioWare wasn't aware of these
oddities? Lack of choice and dialogue options is somewhat of a theme in
ME3, so why give us the ability to question these inconsistencies, only
to be met with obvious evasions of them (i.e. Process of elimination,
control is better, bleh)?
[/quote]
[/quote]

[masster blaster]

The Tower is not merely an edifice, it is somehow used to manually open the Citadel relay leading to dark space. When Sovereign attacked the station, it settled on the Tower and extruded cables into it.

The Council Chambers were the scene of the final battle between Shepard and Saren during the Citadel incursion. Pursuing Saren to the station's master control unit, which turned out to be in the Council's audience chamber, Shepard saw Saren die and fall through the glass into the garden below. Saren's transformation into Sovereign's 'avatar' caused the stage to collapse and the squad battled the creature in the garden until it was finally destroyed.

Modifié par masster blaster, 08 août 2012 - 04:32 .

[TJBartlemus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There appears to be the usual circular logic of 'It must be bad writing cos Bioware are bad writers. I know they're bad writers because of the ending.' Always annoys me.

There is nothing circular about that. If a writer is bad, his writing is going to be bad. A bad writer can be recognized by his bad writing. There is nothing circular about that.

Really?!? <_< WTF? If you are trying to make a point don't troll. If you aren't trying to make points and intentionally troll then I will ask you nicely to leave. 

[Home run MF]

[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

More Speculation, but not necessarily IT (forgive the old questions, just looking for fresh perspective and non-trolling):

Cerberus.
We all know they sort of went from "End justify means" to "Derp,
control Reapers," and this is often credited to bad writing/rush.
However, if BioWare was oblivious to this odd shift in directive, how
come the characters weren't? Shepard often states (indirectly) how
idiotic TIM's actions are and questions the reasons for them, but the
only explanation we are given is indoctrination.

When would TIM
have been indoctrinated? He was not in prolonged contact with the
artifact that gave him the magic eyes, and he is smart enough to avoid
Reaper tech. I haven't read the novels, but I doubt he would spend much
time in the presence of the Collector Base. Could some type of
prologue/cerberus-related DLC come along to clarify this a little?
Maybe, since it's somewhat Indoctrination-related, IT could fit in?[/quote]
[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

MOAR Possible speculation:

When
asked if there will be more Citadel areas added AFTER Leviathan, Mike
Gamble said that he couldn't tell us (which is practically a "yes").
Could this open up the possibility of including Keeper tunnels?

EDIT:
Also, I went off on a tangent with my last post. My issue wasn't so much
the indoctrination as it was the apparent awareness of BioWare that TIM
is so out of character.

EDIT 2:This could also be said about
the Crucible blueprints on Mars. Shepard can ask why the hell we are
JUST now finding them, and is given a very vague answer. Why would we
even be able to question these things if BioWare wasn't aware of these
oddities? Lack of choice and dialogue options is somewhat of a theme in
ME3, so why give us the ability to question these inconsistencies, only
to be met with obvious evasions of them (i.e. Process of elimination,
control is better, bleh)?
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

Power is an illusion my friend, they gave TIM the liberty of thinking he was in control but he never was.
Just like Saren. He wasn't out of character the Reapers hold was stronger because they where already here. 

[BlazingZephyr]

Home run MF wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing. 

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination."

You are missing the point, they do not fight humanity to control Reapers, they fight humanity because the Reapers tell them to. Divide & Conquer? They have us fighting each other? Sound familiar?

Sometimes I wonder if I played the same game as everyone else.

*sigh* Okay, let me say this a different way. From a writer's perspective, they essentially took an interesting group, with a lot of mystery behind it, and its equally mysterious leader, and twisted them into the main bad guys of the Reaper conflict. They are now represented by a cyborg ninja with obvious confusion over his native culture and an instant win button. Cerberus is apparently now an "Idea". What idea? Who knows?

I'm really not trying to argue with people, but so much of this game bugs me. My support of IT is largely based on hope, rather than sureness of BioWare's genius.

Modifié par BlazingZephyr, 08 août 2012 - 04:40 .

[MaximizedAction]

blog.bioware.com/2012/08/08/operation-olympus/

"Increased Reaper activity has been reported around London. Operation OLYMPUS will focus large-scale strikes on the Reapers to buy the Resistance time to investigate...."

Arian/TSA +1

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 08 août 2012 - 04:38 .

[masster blaster]

[quote]Home run MF wrote...

[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

More Speculation, but not necessarily IT (forgive the old questions, just looking for fresh perspective and non-trolling):

Cerberus.
We all know they sort of went from "End justify means" to "Derp,
control Reapers," and this is often credited to bad writing/rush.
However, if BioWare was oblivious to this odd shift in directive, how
come the characters weren't? Shepard often states (indirectly) how
idiotic TIM's actions are and questions the reasons for them, but the
only explanation we are given is indoctrination.

When would TIM
have been indoctrinated? He was not in prolonged contact with the
artifact that gave him the magic eyes, and he is smart enough to avoid
Reaper tech. I haven't read the novels, but I doubt he would spend much
time in the presence of the Collector Base. Could some type of
prologue/cerberus-related DLC come along to clarify this a little?
Maybe, since it's somewhat Indoctrination-related, IT could fit in?[/quote]
[quote]BlazingZephyr wrote...

MOAR Possible speculation:

When
asked if there will be more Citadel areas added AFTER Leviathan, Mike
Gamble said that he couldn't tell us (which is practically a "yes").
Could this open up the possibility of including Keeper tunnels?

EDIT:
Also, I went off on a tangent with my last post. My issue wasn't so much
the indoctrination as it was the apparent awareness of BioWare that TIM
is so out of character.

EDIT 2:This could also be said about
the Crucible blueprints on Mars. Shepard can ask why the hell we are
JUST now finding them, and is given a very vague answer. Why would we
even be able to question these things if BioWare wasn't aware of these
oddities? Lack of choice and dialogue options is somewhat of a theme in
ME3, so why give us the ability to question these inconsistencies, only
to be met with obvious evasions of them (i.e. Process of elimination,
control is better, bleh)?
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

Power is an illusion my friend, they gave TIM the liberty of thinking he was in control but he never was.
Just like Saren. He wasn't out of character the Reapers hold was stronger because they where already here.  [/quote]

And didn't you notice that Saren was part Synthetic, and Oraganic. The geth arm, and tubes around his body, way he was in character.

[GethPrimeMKII]

I've come to the realization that most people who claim ME3's writing sucked simply don't completely understand the story.

[masster blaster]

MaximizedAction wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/08/08/operation-olympus/

"Increased Reaper activity has been reported around London. Operation OLYMPUS will focus large-scale strikes on the Reapers to buy the Resistance time to investigate...."

Arian/TSA +1

Cool we are the team that never comes back/ report back to Anderson. And Yes everything is going acourding to plan.

[BlazingZephyr]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've come to the realization that most people who claim ME3's writing sucked simply don't completely understand the story.

Thank you for stereotyping me because we have different opinions. I greatly appreciate it.<_<

The only reason ME3 bugs me so much (besides ending), is because I went back and played the first two games. I originally only played ME3, and had no qualms with it. Then, after so much talk about previous games from friends (and I wanted Wrex to lead the Krogan, not Wreave), I got the first two games an played the CRAP out of them. Now, going back, ME3 just feels so... forced.

Modifié par BlazingZephyr, 08 août 2012 - 04:50 .

[TJBartlemus]

Regarding Operation OLYMPUS: So what challenge is this supposed to be? One we are supposed to be successful or fail?

Also don't you think it's interesting that they named the operation to the greek mythology? Isn't Cerberus supposed to be filled with that? Hmmm....more pointing towards London and Cerberus. Just one more connection to add to the pile. 

1- Cerberus shuttle shard/logo next to Thanix missiles.
2- Cerberus shuttle drops Shepard off at FOB.
3- Operation name is related to Greek - Greek mythology is present in Cerberus (names) - thus London is indirectly related to Cerberus...

Interesting.... 

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 08 août 2012 - 04:50 .

[smokingotter1]

I don't know if this subject has been touched on, but doesn't it bother anyone that the decision chamber is essentially a gigantic discussion wheel?



It's as if the reaper broke the fourth wall and we're all like "we know how you the player have been controling Shepard through these three games... this dialogue wheel!"

It's the tool with which you the player controls Shepard and its being used against you. It's all very meta.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 08 août 2012 - 04:47 .

[ThisOneIsPunny]

masster blaster wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/08/08/operation-olympus/

"Increased Reaper activity has been reported around London. Operation OLYMPUS will focus large-scale strikes on the Reapers to buy the Resistance time to investigate...."

Arian/TSA +1

Cool we are the team that never comes back/ report back to Anderson. And Yes everything is going acourding to plan.

Now is a good time to bring up again the real reason that the Reapers chose London was to crush Humanity in their own Olympics. Go gold or go home.
(LOOK AT THAT NAME. LOOK AT IT.)

[Adambomb1222]

Modifié par Adambomb1222, 08 août 2012 - 04:54 .

[masster blaster]

smokingotter1 wrote...

I don't know if this subject has been touched on, but doesn't it bother anyone that the decision chamber is essentially a gigantic discussion wheel?



It's as if the reaper broke the fourth wall and we're all like "we know how you the player have been controling Shepard through these three games... this dialogue wheel!"

It's the tool with which you the player controls Shepard and its being used against you. It's very meta.

Been saying that since day one, but people call me crazy.<_<

[Home run MF]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Except that that is REALLY bad story writing. 

"Mean justify ends" Pro-human group --> Fight humanity to control Reapers.

Why? "Because indoctrination."

You are missing the point, they do not fight humanity to control Reapers, they fight humanity because the Reapers tell them to. Divide & Conquer? They have us fighting each other? Sound familiar?

Sometimes I wonder if I played the same game as everyone else.

*sigh* Okay, let me say this a different way. From a writer's perspective, they essentially took an interesting group, with a lot of mystery behind it, and its equally mysterious leader, and twisted them into the main bad guys of the Reaper conflict. They are now represented by a cyborg ninja with obvious confusion over his native culture and an instant win button. Cerberus is apparently now an "Idea". What idea? Who knows?

I'm really not trying to argue with people, but so much of this game bugs me. My support of IT is largely based on hope, rather than sureness of BioWare's genius.

Fist of all I'm not arguing with you, we are exchanging opinions (sorry if I sounded a little blunt)

Let me put it this way.
Vendetta says the splinter group trying (or thinking they were) to control the Reapers happened in their cycle too, and that they were indoctrinated.
The Illusive Man touches a Reaper artifact and all of a sudden grows the need of founding a secret splinter group.
When the Reapers are close and their previous agents failed (Saren) they use another one, TIM, to instigate another front for the organics to fight. (divide & conquer)
Oh, big surprise when this cycle splinter group sabotages the crucible deployment like the Prothean one did.
Both were indoctrinated and both where given the illusion of power.

Modifié par Home run MF, 08 août 2012 - 04:56 .

[smokingotter1]

masster blaster wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

I don't know if this subject has been touched on, but doesn't it bother anyone that the decision chamber is essentially a gigantic discussion wheel?



It's as if the reaper broke the fourth wall and we're all like "we know how you the player have been controling Shepard through these three games... this dialogue wheel!"

It's the tool with which you the player controls Shepard and its being used against you. It's very meta.

Been saying that since day one, but people call me crazy.<_<

We'll you're right, and it would make sense that the reapers would use the same tool the [player] uses if they wanted to control Shepard. It was said that Bioware tried to work on a mechanic with which the player would lose control of Shepard, since they couldn't get the movement mechanic to work they went deeper, brillant IMO.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 08 août 2012 - 04:52 .

[StElmo]

smokingotter1 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

So guys, guys guys, anyone here still hanging out for DLC that takes into account IT? if not, are you hoping ME4 will just nulify the ME3 ending with something like IT?

Heck I would take either, but so far you guys are all clutching at straws, so what keeps you so motivated???

Morning yall. Still waiting for DLC to take into account IT.

ME4 will not nullify ME3, the ending is in ME3.

I doubt there will be post-ending DLC. If you want to know what's happening at the end of ME3 watch the film "Momento"

huh? So its all just speculation? well thats dull. Who cares if it's a fan theory, whatever. The difference between Memento and ME3 is Memento is a god damn single, encapsulated narrative.

ME3 was supposed to be a definitive bloody ending. So bloody hell I want a damn conclusion that makes freaking sense.

[masster blaster]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

blog.bioware.com/2012/08/08/operation-olympus/

"Increased Reaper activity has been reported around London. Operation OLYMPUS will focus large-scale strikes on the Reapers to buy the Resistance time to investigate...."

Arian/TSA +1

Cool we are the team that never comes back/ report back to Anderson. And Yes everything is going acourding to plan.

Now is a good time to bring up again the real reason that the Reapers chose London was to crush Humanity in their own Olympics. Go gold or go home.
(LOOK AT THAT NAME. LOOK AT IT.)

Well it"s intresting that the operation has to be in london and no were else. Um didn't Anderson report to Shepard about there is something big going down in London, and the resistance his heading ro London to find out what is happening?

Oh wait he did.