80611 réponses à ce sujet

[LadySuspense]

I think you have an interesting point, I may choose to disagree with it but none the less it is interesting.

[masster blaster]

LadySuspense wrote...

What the heck where did everyone go?

This happens a lot now. nothing really to speculate on, so the silence is our post.

[Pascal219]

LadySuspense wrote...

I think you have an interesting point, I may choose to disagree with it but none the less it is interesting.

It isn't my point, it's Doomsdays! But yeah I don't agree with it either, though I could see where it is coming from. Reaper code is dangerous business. 

[Andromidius]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

The only case of not Canifex for the lose seems to be killing Legion. Though why I cant quite comprehend.

Oh I can quite comprehend why Legion is killed with the Predator.

But god forbid suggesting that Legion is indoctrinated in the IT thread.

You'll be the victim of endless ridicule. *eyeroll*

Its possible.  Though that never seems to go anywhere further, considering the Geth actively help the war effort from then on.

Though considering Legion was seperate from the Concensus its possible it was indoctrinated, and the rest of the Geth aren't.

[LadySuspense]

masster blaster wrote...

LadySuspense wrote...

What the heck where did everyone go?

This happens a lot now. nothing really to speculate on, so the silence is our post.

Well then we should speculate on why we are not speculating for Pete's sake. (kidding) But seriously? Have all topics been exasperated?

[Rifneno]

Oh God. Not the Legion thing again.

[archangel1996]

So.....if i take TIM's body and i put it in the Synthesis beam do i break indoctrination?

[LadySuspense]

No but you do get the super Rainbow ending!

[BansheeOwnage]

LadySuspense wrote...

No but you do get the super Rainbow ending!

Suspense! Watch this! 

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 28 décembre 2012 - 01:04 .

[Humakt83]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Oh I can quite comprehend why Legion is killed with the Predator.

But god forbid suggesting that Legion is indoctrinated in the IT thread.

You'll be the victim of endless ridicule. *eyeroll*

I kind of suggested that back in Mark 2 I believe. Intended to start a thread about it, but never did. You've brought up the points which made me suspect Geth in the first place.

Playing through Geth Server mission feels like I'm being fed propaganda, especially when Legion is replaced with Geth VI or "We are not Legion".

Modifié par Humakt83, 28 décembre 2012 - 01:18 .

[LadySuspense]

Exactly!!! I loved the Mass Effect 1 elevator music! rofl. That is how I feel sometimes listening to the starkids dialogue. Wait what did you just say...wait...that's circular...gah F*** it *shoots starbrat in the head*

Modifié par LadySuspense, 28 décembre 2012 - 01:18 .

[ZerebusPrime]

Regarding Legion being indoctrinated... I see a number of odd things surrounding Legion and the Geth. Yes, they can be made to fight against the Reapers and Legion seems to act against the short term interests of the Reapers but........

Why the heck was Legion chosen to be enmeshed within the Geth Dreadnaught instead of something more efficient like a simple Geth server or even a Geth Prime? It seems that the Reaper-directed Geth specifically chose Legion to be that ship's processing core. It also seems that the Reapers specifically upgraded Legion's intelligence beyond whatever was given to the Consensus.

Legion does show a marked change in his opinions between ME2 and ME3, either from personal evolution or direct overwrite. Unfortunately, we can't discount overwrite because we learn that he's carrying Reaper code and we find him hooked up to a Reaper device.

Legion knew about the Geth VR pods, which the Reaper on Rannoch was mass producing. Legion did not reveal to us why such pods even exist; Geth certainly don't need them to interface with their own networks. It seems probable that the Reaper intended to send a great many organic minds into the Geth Consensus which, as we saw, was brimming with Reaper code structures.

And lastly, the end result of peace between the Quarians and Geth is contextually disturbing. The Reaper upgraded Geth uploading themselves into Quarians suits could be viewed as an alternate path towards getting Reaper code (or a Reaper influenced AI) into organic bodies. It may start with the suits, but next it could be their implants and then after that even more implants. It does sound a lot like the machinist aliens Javik described as becoming abominations.

I think it is entirely likely that Legion was used as a contingency plan by the Reapers in case Shepard showed up and ended the Geth-Quarian conflict.

[LadySuspense]

Wow that is very interesting. I forgot that Legion had Reaper tech in him and holy smokes that could be bad for the Quarians...O.O It would be devilishly cunning for the Reapers to use him as a contingency plan because hey we never even doubted the logic of the ending of the war. We may not even see repercussions until years later when the tech they use would get even more advanced!

[BansheeOwnage]

LadySuspense wrote...

Exactly!!! I loved the Mass Effect 1 elevator music! rofl. That is how I feel sometimes listening to the starkids dialogue. Wait what did you just say...wait...that's circular...gah F*** it *shoots starbrat in the head*

Glad you liked it.

[Rifneno]

For the seven millionth time, Legion is not a Reaper tool. There's no "keep the geth as they are" option. It's either let them upload the MODIFIED Reaper code that NO LONGER HAS A LIVE REAPER PLUGGED INTO IT MAKING IT GROW BACK or kill every single geth. Actually kill them. Not like this metaphorical destroy bull****. That won't be the right decision. Ever. This is fiction, and it's not written by a complete sociopath. Completely avoidable genocide won't be the good path. If there was an option to keep the geth as they are, then yeah, this might be right. But there's not, and it isn't.

I anxiously await the revival of this topic on pages 2960, 2965, 2970, ect.

[Andromidius]

Regardless of if they succeeded or not, the Reapers likely wanted to force Legion (or the VI...) to accept the rest of the Geth's submission. It could be used to manipulate Shepard, hense why its placed on the Dreadnought - like bait.

[BansheeOwnage]

LadySuspense wrote...

Wow that is very interesting. I forgot that Legion had Reaper tech in him and holy smokes that could be bad for the Quarians...O.O It would be devilishly cunning for the Reapers to use him as a contingency plan because hey we never even doubted the logic of the ending of the war. We may not even see repercussions until years later when the tech they use would get even more advanced!

Keep in mind that Legion did not upload reaper code to the geth. Someone else could explain it better, but it's like reading a book (reaper code) and taking out the pages we want and using them. Legion took what he wanted from the code, but he made his own.

It's exactly like how we have thanix cannons based on a reaper's main gun. We aren't using reaper tech (which almost always leads to indoctrination) we reverse-engineered it.

It's exactly like how the protheans managed to build their own mass relay. Sure, the reapers built the others, but the protheans built this one on their own. By using it, they do not develop along the paths the reapers desire.

The reapers never even considered that the protheans could do that (hubris!) and it stopped the keeper signal 50000 years later. They never considered Sovereign would be destroyed and we would build thanix cannons from his tech. They never considered Legion would be able to upgrade the geth as he did.

That's why I don't think Legion is/was indoctrinated, and that's why I think the reapers will be defeated because of their hubris.

[Dwailing]

OK, I've been thinking about the Carnipredifexator, and I had a thought.  I'm starting to think that seeing the Predator as good and the Carnifex as bad is stretching it, but that doesn't mean that the presence of the Predator in the Destroy ending is not symbolic.  Look at this video at 1:17.  Now, this is post-EC, and it CLEARLY shows that Shepard has the Predator.  Then, it gets "dropped" when Shepard gets knocked out, and he finds the Carnifex that Anderson had during the run.  However, once he gets to Destroy, he gets the Predator "back", even if it is only in sound and gun-fusion form.  I think this is the most that we can unequivocally state about the Predator: that Shepard has it during the beam run, and that he has it again in Destroy.  This would suggest, to me, anyway, that this is either occuring completely in Shepard's mind (Traditional IT), or that it's some kind of warped illusion of the world (WNT and my personal belief, though I admit I could be wrong).

Edit: My point being that the Carnipredifexator during Destroy can still be symbolic without having to muck about in this rather questionable business of the Predator being symbolic of defeating indoctrination.  I'm not going to say that's wrong, but as I said, it's questionable.

Modifié par Dwailing, 28 décembre 2012 - 01:45 .

[BleedingUranium]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LadySuspense wrote...

Wow that is very interesting. I forgot that Legion had Reaper tech in him and holy smokes that could be bad for the Quarians...O.O It would be devilishly cunning for the Reapers to use him as a contingency plan because hey we never even doubted the logic of the ending of the war. We may not even see repercussions until years later when the tech they use would get even more advanced!

Keep in mind that Legion did not upload reaper code to the geth. Someone else could explain it better, but it's like reading a book (reaper code) and taking out the pages we want and using them. Legion took what he wanted from the code, but he made his own.

It's exactly like how we have thanix cannons based on a reaper's main gun. We aren't using reaper tech (which almost always leads to indoctrination) we reverse-engineered it.

It's exactly like how the protheans managed to build their own mass relay. Sure, the reapers built the others, but the protheans built this one on their own. By using it, they do not develop along the paths the reapers desire.

The reapers never even considered that the protheans could do that (hubris!) and it stopped the keeper signal 50000 years later. They never considered Sovereign would be destroyed and we would build thanix cannons from his tech. They never considered Legion would be able to upgrade the geth as he did.

That's why I don't think Legion is/was indoctrinated, and that's why I think the reapers will be defeated because of their hubris.

Thank you Banshee, I really didn't want to have to write that again.

[BleedingUranium]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, I've been thinking about the Carnipredifexator, and I had a thought.  I'm starting to think that seeing the Predator as good and the Carnifex as bad is stretching it, but that doesn't mean that the presence of the Predator in the Destroy ending is not symbolic.  Look at this video at 1:17.  Now, this is post-EC, and it CLEARLY shows that Shepard has the Predator.  Then, it gets "dropped" when Shepard gets knocked out, and he finds the Carnifex that Anderson had during the run.  However, once he gets to Destroy, he gets the Predator "back", even if it is only in sound and gun-fusion form.  I think this is the most that we can unequivocally state about the Predator: that Shepard has it during the beam run, and that he has it again in Destroy.  This would suggest, to me, anyway, that this is either occuring completely in Shepard's mind (Traditional IT), or that it's some kind of warped illusion of the world (WNT and my personal belief, though I admit I could be wrong).

Keep in mind, not every time you see the Predator is symbolic, but a large number of times it is.

[BansheeOwnage]

BleedingUranium wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LadySuspense wrote...

Wow that is very interesting. I forgot that Legion had Reaper tech in him and holy smokes that could be bad for the Quarians...O.O It would be devilishly cunning for the Reapers to use him as a contingency plan because hey we never even doubted the logic of the ending of the war. We may not even see repercussions until years later when the tech they use would get even more advanced!

Keep in mind that Legion did not upload reaper code to the geth. Someone else could explain it better, but it's like reading a book (reaper code) and taking out the pages we want and using them. Legion took what he wanted from the code, but he made his own.

It's exactly like how we have thanix cannons based on a reaper's main gun. We aren't using reaper tech (which almost always leads to indoctrination) we reverse-engineered it.

It's exactly like how the protheans managed to build their own mass relay. Sure, the reapers built the others, but the protheans built this one on their own. By using it, they do not develop along the paths the reapers desire.

The reapers never even considered that the protheans could do that (hubris!) and it stopped the keeper signal 50000 years later. They never considered Sovereign would be destroyed and we would build thanix cannons from his tech. They never considered Legion would be able to upgrade the geth as he did.

That's why I don't think Legion is/was indoctrinated, and that's why I think the reapers will be defeated because of their hubris.

Thank you Banshee, I really didn't want to have to write that again.

You're welcome. And about the Predator thing, I also agree that it's not symbolic every time, but most of the time and definitely where Dwailing mentioned. I think I made a list of things I noticed about that video a while back and that was in it. And that is an awesome bromance in the video.

[LadySuspense]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

LadySuspense wrote...

Wow that is very interesting. I forgot that Legion had Reaper tech in him and holy smokes that could be bad for the Quarians...O.O It would be devilishly cunning for the Reapers to use him as a contingency plan because hey we never even doubted the logic of the ending of the war. We may not even see repercussions until years later when the tech they use would get even more advanced!

Keep in mind that Legion did not upload reaper code to the geth. Someone else could explain it better, but it's like reading a book (reaper code) and taking out the pages we want and using them. Legion took what he wanted from the code, but he made his own.

It's exactly like how we have thanix cannons based on a reaper's main gun. We aren't using reaper tech (which almost always leads to indoctrination) we reverse-engineered it.

It's exactly like how the protheans managed to build their own mass relay. Sure, the reapers built the others, but the protheans built this one on their own. By using it, they do not develop along the paths the reapers desire.

The reapers never even considered that the protheans could do that (hubris!) and it stopped the keeper signal 50000 years later. They never considered Sovereign would be destroyed and we would build thanix cannons from his tech. They never considered Legion would be able to upgrade the geth as he did.

That's why I don't think Legion is/was indoctrinated, and that's why I think the reapers will be defeated because of their hubris.

Now see that's what I get for jumping on an idea. I didn't remember (until you said that) that they did change the code. Hubris is the downfall of many. 

[Dwailing]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, I've been thinking about the Carnipredifexator, and I had a thought.  I'm starting to think that seeing the Predator as good and the Carnifex as bad is stretching it, but that doesn't mean that the presence of the Predator in the Destroy ending is not symbolic.  Look at this video at 1:17.  Now, this is post-EC, and it CLEARLY shows that Shepard has the Predator.  Then, it gets "dropped" when Shepard gets knocked out, and he finds the Carnifex that Anderson had during the run.  However, once he gets to Destroy, he gets the Predator "back", even if it is only in sound and gun-fusion form.  I think this is the most that we can unequivocally state about the Predator: that Shepard has it during the beam run, and that he has it again in Destroy.  This would suggest, to me, anyway, that this is either occuring completely in Shepard's mind (Traditional IT), or that it's some kind of warped illusion of the world (WNT and my personal belief, though I admit I could be wrong).

Keep in mind, not every time you see the Predator is symbolic, but a large number of times it is.

IMHO, if the Predator is meant to be a symbol of good and breaking indoctrination, then it has to act as that symbol every time it appears.  Since we have scenes where it does not act in that symbolic sense (The VS on the Citadel, Legion if you let the geth die, probably something else that I don't remember ), I don't think it can be unequivocally stated to be that symbol.  This is a bit subjective, but the doubt is just not something I can handle.

[Rifneno]

LadySuspense wrote...

Now see that's what I get for jumping on an idea. I didn't remember (until you said that) that they did change the code. Hubris is the downfall of many. 

There's nothing wrong with going for an idea that doesn't pan out.  Lots of us had idea that didn't pan out.  I remember pre-Leviathan having this huge post about why Harbinger is the Prothean Reaper.  Can't be right all the time.

[Andromidius]

As a side note, I ordered Mass Effect: Revelation from Amazon just now.

I hope its a good read!