80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Restrider]

So, what has happened in the last 120 hours/5 days/0,71 weeks/0,167 months/0,014 years...?

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

[DoomsdayDevice]

All this needs is some tree reflections on the floor, but it drives the point home nonetheless.

[cyrexwingblade]

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Yeah, basically that.

[CoolioThane]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But este, some literalists think control/synthesis are actually good choices that would save everyone...and not make you a mindless slave. They are the same people who sometimes wave their hand and say "bad writing" or whatever

Nope, the people who tend to scream around that it's bad writing tend to be those that picked destroy. Controllers and synthesizers consist almost only of pro-enders. You can easily see that in their threads.

I'm speaking from personal experience. Namely Hanar who was Control, also very anti-ending, and two Synthys I know in real life who have the most vitriol about the ending - almost on par with Hanar. 

You were quite dismissive of my point even though I had evidence which made me sad

[estebanus]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Yeah, basically that.

That's what I thought. Look, I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with you. I hope you understand.

Modifié par estebanus, 28 décembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[CoolioThane]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Yeah, basically that.

No, we obviously think the writing/story design team, WHO ARE TOTALLY AT FAULT for the face-imoprt and some technical glitches in the game, could never come up with IT. Dude, you're being silly

[byne]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Yeah, basically that.

Because clearly the guys who designed the face import system are the same guys who wrote the story.

Thats like saying a book isnt a good read because some pages fell out.

[cyrexwingblade]

Just adding my opinion to the near 3000 page pile. I was pro-IT for a while. Before EC, basically. EC was a major step for a company to take to try to appease customers. That it happened actually still surprises me.

Expecting more is... problematic.

byne wrote...

Because clearly the guys who designed the face import system are the same guys who wrote the story.

Thats like saying a book isnt a good read because some pages fell out.

Indeed, that would be foolish.

Now if it was a book written by a team of people, who had to monitor syntax, diction, binding, and type-face, and all areas had numerous failures and technical errors, yet the story, giving every indication of entertaining by mediocre content, suddenly claims a massive twist at the end requiring in-depth detail and tailoring of minutae most people wouldn't even consider?

Then I would say it isn't a good read when the pages fell out.

Modifié par cyrexwingblade, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:01 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

People don't believe in IT, what a shocker.

[DaveTheRave05]

Cause no game other than Mass Effect has ever had any bugs or glitches.



Never.

[estebanus]

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But este, some literalists think control/synthesis are actually good choices that would save everyone...and not make you a mindless slave. They are the same people who sometimes wave their hand and say "bad writing" or whatever

Nope, the people who tend to scream around that it's bad writing tend to be those that picked destroy. Controllers and synthesizers consist almost only of pro-enders. You can easily see that in their threads.

I'm speaking from personal experience. Namely Hanar who was Control, also very anti-ending, and two Synthys I know in real life who have the most vitriol about the ending - almost on par with Hanar. 

You were quite dismissive of my point even though I had evidence which made me sad

If you look around on the forums, and at the people who chose what ending, it's easy to see that most of the anti-enders chose destroy. and control and synthesis are very small minorities, not to mention that those are the 2 endings that are complained about the most. 

I can't speak out of personal experience, though. I'm one of the only people who plays video games at my workplace, and as far as I know, the only one who plays Mass Effect. My friends don't tend to play games either.

[hiraeth]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Just adding my opinion to the near 3000 page pile. I was pro-IT for a while. Before EC, basically. EC was a major step for a company to take to try to appease customers. That it happened actually still surprises me.

Expecting more is... problematic.

But, your belief in IT should (theoretically) be relatively independent of Bioware's willingness to release content supporting it, right? Did EC dissuade you from believing IT is what actually happened in the story?

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Which is a bit ridiculous looking at the series as a whole.  I mean, all three games were great.  ME3 was different, but that doesn't make it any less great.  I think a lot of the hate ME3 gets is due to how it's a bit different in style and tone from ME1 and ME2.  That probably comes from the lack of Drew Karpyshyn, but that doesn't mean that it's bad, or that Walters sucks.  Walters has been writing for the ME series from day one.  He's been just as involved with it as Karpyshyn was.  They were Co-Lead Writers, after all.  Walters helped to frakking create this universe from the beginning.  It's not like they brought in some random noob (Ala Dietz).  And besides, it's not just Walters who was writing.  There were all the other writers, too.  All the other writers who had been with the series from the beginning as well (If memory serves).  They are not incompetent.  Just because there are some rough PROGRAMMING edges doesn't mean that the writers are incompenent.  

Edit: Semi-'d

Modifié par Dwailing, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:06 .

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But este, some literalists think control/synthesis are actually good choices that would save everyone...and not make you a mindless slave. They are the same people who sometimes wave their hand and say "bad writing" or whatever

Nope, the people who tend to scream around that it's bad writing tend to be those that picked destroy. Controllers and synthesizers consist almost only of pro-enders. You can easily see that in their threads.

I'm speaking from personal experience. Namely Hanar who was Control, also very anti-ending, and two Synthys I know in real life who have the most vitriol about the ending - almost on par with Hanar. 

You were quite dismissive of my point even though I had evidence which made me sad

If you look around on the forums, and at the people who chose what ending, it's easy to see that most of the anti-enders chose destroy. and control and synthesis are very small minorities, not to mention that those are the 2 endings that are complained about the most. 

I can't speak out of personal experience, though. I'm one of the only people who plays video games at my workplace, and as far as I know, the only one who plays Mass Effect. My friends don't tend to play games either.

Maybe this will help.  It seems that all the Controlls and Synthedroids that come to our thread use the bad writing excuse to "disprove" IT evidence.

Edit: Honestly, the Bad Writing Excuse seems to just be popular with Anti-ITists period.

Modifié par Dwailing, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Which is a bit ridiculous looking at the series as a whole.  I mean, all three games were great.  ME3 was different, but that doesn't make it any less great.  I think a lot of the hate ME3 gets is due to how it's a bit different in style and tone from ME1 and ME2.  That probably comes from the lack of Drew Karpyshyn, but that doesn't mean that it's bad, or that Walters sucks.  Walters has been writing for the ME series from day one.  He's been just as involved with it as Karpyshyn was.  They were Co-Lead Writers, after all.  Walters helped to frakking create this universe from the beginning.  It's not like they brought in some random noob (Ala Dietz).  And besides, it's not just Walters who was writing.  There were all the other writers, too.  All the other writers who had been with the series from the beginning as well (If memory serves).  They are not incompetent.  Just because there are some rough PROGRAMMING edges doesn't mean that the writers are incompenent.  

Walters was with since ME1, yes. However, he was writing characters, not the story. I'm not saying Walters sucks as a general writer. The characters he wrote (Garrus, for instance) were very thorough and colourful. I'm saying that he sucks as a story writer. The most complained about parts of the game were lead by him (The beginning, Mars, the citadel coup, the ending). 

But in the end, I really don't care. I don't expect BioWare to do anything else than to sit on their assesuntil the last people have moved on.

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But este, some literalists think control/synthesis are actually good choices that would save everyone...and not make you a mindless slave. They are the same people who sometimes wave their hand and say "bad writing" or whatever

Nope, the people who tend to scream around that it's bad writing tend to be those that picked destroy. Controllers and synthesizers consist almost only of pro-enders. You can easily see that in their threads.

I'm speaking from personal experience. Namely Hanar who was Control, also very anti-ending, and two Synthys I know in real life who have the most vitriol about the ending - almost on par with Hanar. 

You were quite dismissive of my point even though I had evidence which made me sad

If you look around on the forums, and at the people who chose what ending, it's easy to see that most of the anti-enders chose destroy. and control and synthesis are very small minorities, not to mention that those are the 2 endings that are complained about the most. 

I can't speak out of personal experience, though. I'm one of the only people who plays video games at my workplace, and as far as I know, the only one who plays Mass Effect. My friends don't tend to play games either.

Maybe this will help.  It seems that all the Controlls and Synthedroids that come to our thread use the bad writing excuse to "disprove" IT evidence.

That just makes them a bunch of f*cking hypocrites. However, HH for example only chose control with his all-out renegade character, and he chose destroy with his renegon character. He complains about all endings, control, destroy, synthesis and refuse alike. He didn't choose control because he felt sorry for the geth (Because he doesn't, he actually doesn't give a damn about the geth), he did it because it was aligned best to his renegade Shepard, who was totally pro-cerberus.

[hiraeth]

estebanus wrote...

*snip*

I don't expect BioWare to do anything else than to sit on their asses until the last people have moved on.

Unfortunately, I agree.

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But este, some literalists think control/synthesis are actually good choices that would save everyone...and not make you a mindless slave. They are the same people who sometimes wave their hand and say "bad writing" or whatever

Nope, the people who tend to scream around that it's bad writing tend to be those that picked destroy. Controllers and synthesizers consist almost only of pro-enders. You can easily see that in their threads.

I don't think they consist mostly of pro-enders, but I do think that most of the pro-enders are controllers and synthesizers. Most people who pick destroy (IMO) have a better understanding of the themes of the games.

[lex0r11]

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Which is a bit ridiculous looking at the series as a whole.  I mean, all three games were great.  ME3 was different, but that doesn't make it any less great.  I think a lot of the hate ME3 gets is due to how it's a bit different in style and tone from ME1 and ME2.  That probably comes from the lack of Drew Karpyshyn, but that doesn't mean that it's bad, or that Walters sucks.  Walters has been writing for the ME series from day one.  He's been just as involved with it as Karpyshyn was.  They were Co-Lead Writers, after all.  Walters helped to frakking create this universe from the beginning.  It's not like they brought in some random noob (Ala Dietz).  And besides, it's not just Walters who was writing.  There were all the other writers, too.  All the other writers who had been with the series from the beginning as well (If memory serves).  They are not incompetent.  Just because there are some rough PROGRAMMING edges doesn't mean that the writers are incompenent.  

Walters was with since ME1, yes. However, he was writing characters, not the story. I'm not saying Walters sucks as a general writer. The characters he wrote (Garrus, for instance) were very thorough and colourful. I'm saying that he sucks as a story writer. The most complained about parts of the game were lead by him (The beginning, Mars, the citadel coup, the ending). 

But in the end, I really don't care. I don't expect BioWare to do anything else than to sit on their assesuntil the last people have moved on.

What was wrong with Mars?  I really like Mars.  It was a cool mission.  And I've heard the complaints about the opening, but I really didn't have issues with it.  Of course, I always play an import who completed Arrival, so that clears up many of the issues.  And one thing that should be noted is that the ME2 opening was not that much different from the ME3 opening if you're looking for a recap of events from the previous game/s.  It dropped you right into the action just like ME3's.  The Citadel Coup could still be explained in upcoming DLC, and we've already speculated about the reasons for it, especially from an IT perspective, where the possibilities are pretty intreguing if the story isn't over yet.  And as for the endings, well, I really don't need to explain them to you, do I?  You know, given where you are.

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But este, some literalists think control/synthesis are actually good choices that would save everyone...and not make you a mindless slave. They are the same people who sometimes wave their hand and say "bad writing" or whatever

Nope, the people who tend to scream around that it's bad writing tend to be those that picked destroy. Controllers and synthesizers consist almost only of pro-enders. You can easily see that in their threads.

I don't think they consist mostly of pro-enders, but I do think that most of the pro-enders are controllers and synthesizers. Most people who pick destroy (IMO) have a better understanding of the themes of the games.

They know better than to think that the theory of some machine and the main enemy actually is a fact.

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Which is a bit ridiculous looking at the series as a whole.  I mean, all three games were great.  ME3 was different, but that doesn't make it any less great.  I think a lot of the hate ME3 gets is due to how it's a bit different in style and tone from ME1 and ME2.  That probably comes from the lack of Drew Karpyshyn, but that doesn't mean that it's bad, or that Walters sucks.  Walters has been writing for the ME series from day one.  He's been just as involved with it as Karpyshyn was.  They were Co-Lead Writers, after all.  Walters helped to frakking create this universe from the beginning.  It's not like they brought in some random noob (Ala Dietz).  And besides, it's not just Walters who was writing.  There were all the other writers, too.  All the other writers who had been with the series from the beginning as well (If memory serves).  They are not incompetent.  Just because there are some rough PROGRAMMING edges doesn't mean that the writers are incompenent.  

Walters was with since ME1, yes. However, he was writing characters, not the story. I'm not saying Walters sucks as a general writer. The characters he wrote (Garrus, for instance) were very thorough and colourful. I'm saying that he sucks as a story writer. The most complained about parts of the game were lead by him (The beginning, Mars, the citadel coup, the ending). 

But in the end, I really don't care. I don't expect BioWare to do anything else than to sit on their assesuntil the last people have moved on.

What was wrong with Mars?  I really like Mars.  It was a cool mission.  And I've heard the complaints about the opening, but I really didn't have issues with it.  Of course, I always play an import who completed Arrival, so that clears up many of the issues.  And one thing that should be noted is that the ME2 opening was not that much different from the ME3 opening if you're looking for a recap of events from the previous game/s.  It dropped you right into the action just like ME3's.  The Citadel Coup could still be explained in upcoming DLC, and we've already speculated about the reasons for it, especially from an IT perspective, where the possibilities are pretty intreguing if the story isn't over yet.  And as for the endings, well, I really don't need to explain them to you, do I?  You know, given where you are.

Where am I? I'm on the fence, that's where I am. I really don't have the time to worry about the game one way or another. That's also why I lean in the PT direction.
From what we know, IT is a valid interpretation. Just as valid as any other. But it won't be expanded upon. That's absolutely fine for me. This just means that I won't use the IT to argue the ending's validity because I'd be using arguments that aren't even proven.

Modifié par estebanus, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:30 .

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But este, some literalists think control/synthesis are actually good choices that would save everyone...and not make you a mindless slave. They are the same people who sometimes wave their hand and say "bad writing" or whatever

Nope, the people who tend to scream around that it's bad writing tend to be those that picked destroy. Controllers and synthesizers consist almost only of pro-enders. You can easily see that in their threads.

I don't think they consist mostly of pro-enders, but I do think that most of the pro-enders are controllers and synthesizers. Most people who pick destroy (IMO) have a better understanding of the themes of the games.

They know better than to think that the theory of some machine and the main enemy actually is a fact.

Yup.  In general, the non-Destroyers seem to be either Reapers Apologists, geth and EDI lovers, naive idealists, extreme role-players, or just plain insane.  Or a combination of the above.

Modifié par Dwailing, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:29 .

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

A game where *guns appear out of nowhere*, animation glitches abound, dialogue glitches break constantly, and it took a few months to fix the face-import system?

Do you really think the same team could pull that off? IT is simply giving Bioware too much credit.

First time I've seen the "My face didnt import correctly. This disproves IT." argument.

My face always imported just fine.

I think he's trying to say that the Mass Effect staff is incompetent, making them unable to make a twist like the IT.

Which is a bit ridiculous looking at the series as a whole.  I mean, all three games were great.  ME3 was different, but that doesn't make it any less great.  I think a lot of the hate ME3 gets is due to how it's a bit different in style and tone from ME1 and ME2.  That probably comes from the lack of Drew Karpyshyn, but that doesn't mean that it's bad, or that Walters sucks.  Walters has been writing for the ME series from day one.  He's been just as involved with it as Karpyshyn was.  They were Co-Lead Writers, after all.  Walters helped to frakking create this universe from the beginning.  It's not like they brought in some random noob (Ala Dietz).  And besides, it's not just Walters who was writing.  There were all the other writers, too.  All the other writers who had been with the series from the beginning as well (If memory serves).  They are not incompetent.  Just because there are some rough PROGRAMMING edges doesn't mean that the writers are incompenent.  

Walters was with since ME1, yes. However, he was writing characters, not the story. I'm not saying Walters sucks as a general writer. The characters he wrote (Garrus, for instance) were very thorough and colourful. I'm saying that he sucks as a story writer. The most complained about parts of the game were lead by him (The beginning, Mars, the citadel coup, the ending). 

But in the end, I really don't care. I don't expect BioWare to do anything else than to sit on their assesuntil the last people have moved on.

What was wrong with Mars?  I really like Mars.  It was a cool mission.  And I've heard the complaints about the opening, but I really didn't have issues with it.  Of course, I always play an import who completed Arrival, so that clears up many of the issues.  And one thing that should be noted is that the ME2 opening was not that much different from the ME3 opening if you're looking for a recap of events from the previous game/s.  It dropped you right into the action just like ME3's.  The Citadel Coup could still be explained in upcoming DLC, and we've already speculated about the reasons for it, especially from an IT perspective, where the possibilities are pretty intreguing if the story isn't over yet.  And as for the endings, well, I really don't need to explain them to you, do I?  You know, given where you are.

Where am I? I'm on the fence, that's where I am. I really don't have the time to worry about the game one way or another. 

By, "Where you are," I was refering to the thread, not to where you are in your opinion of the endings. 

Modifié par Dwailing, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:30 .