80611 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Maybe. Do you know if he wasn't? He survived either by skill or miracle, so until I have further evidence to the contrary, I'll believe what masster says since he's never been dishonest before. Regardess, we should probably drop this since it has nothing to do with ME3, let alone IT.

Off-topicness is about 60% of each IT thread  

That's what I've seen until now at least.

Modifié par estebanus, 29 décembre 2012 - 09:22 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ok, I'll give you that. Still, we have no way of knowing whether or not masster is lying unless he is able to give us his ancestors name and the serial number of the plane so we could check the military historical archives.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I have things to take care of, so I'm off. See you all later.

[CmdrShep80]

masster blaster wrote...

So Lord the Rings has 13 votes

Game of Thrones 1 2

edit ^

[Fur28]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So Lord the Rings has 13 votes

Game of Thrones 1 2

edit ^

The day i finish the GoT book, that day i shall vote

[estebanus]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Ok, I'll give you that. Still, we have no way of knowing whether or not masster is lying unless he is able to give us his ancestors name and the serial number of the plane so we could check the military historical archives.

You're right. I'm gonna remain sceptical until actually faced with real proof.

[estebanus]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I have things to take care of, so I'm off. See you all later.

see ya!

[401 Kill]

LadySuspense wrote...
So how about those speculations?

Well... I am always looking for excuses to post something from my notes. (Usually posts that I have worked really hard on or just think are pure gold:)) I need to make a new one, but...
Kaboom!

Have you ever read "An Occurance At Owl Creek Bridge"? I think it relates very nicely to the situation here.

A short summary: the main character Farquhar is being hung for a plot to help the confederates in the Civil War. When he is hung, the rope breaks and he attempts to escape. You follow his journey back home, and when he finally gets there it fades to black. He was killed from the hanging, his escape and happy reunion with his wife never happened.  It was an illusion that the reader believed happened until the end.

While the story progressed through his "escape", in reality, he was dead. The author was writing using the realism style of writing, and "making fun" of romanticism writing (The Hero's journey). The author tells the reader many times that the main character is dead, yet the reader will still route for him to escape because of his backstory. "He is the main character, he's got to escape! Go Farquhar!" I thought this related quite nicely to the endings, you see how they all play out, but in reality, Shepard is still in the rubble. "Our entire force was decimated.". Yet we are shown Shepard rising up, and moving forward, and Anderson on the Citadel too. "Our Hero is not done yet, he is invincible!".

The game, and series, have told us that if you remain in close proximity to Reaper Artifacts, you will become indoctrinated. Another fact is that no single mind will be immune to indoctrination. The only reason the Rachni Queen, and the people of Feros' Zhu's Hope colony resisted is because of the "link" between multiple minds that were shared. These links protected them. Currently, Shepard does not have these links. The dreams, the identity crisis, "Struggle if you wish Shepard, your mind will be mine." tell the player that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard, and Shepard is under an influence of indoctrination but still resisting. A lot of players however, will miss these signs if they are not paying attention, seeing as the story will continue to progress. Even the weirdness after Shepard is "hit" by Harbinger's beam will be over-looked, because the story will progress. 
When you look back on it, it seems clear that the Reapers are trying to influence Shepard, just like how it becomes clear that Farquhar was dead from the hanging.  If Shepard was actually hit by Harbingers beam, he would be dead, there is no way around this.

Modifié par 401 Kill, 29 décembre 2012 - 09:40 .

[Tomwew]

Codename_Code wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

LadySuspense wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

i believed in IT until the EC came out, it just felt like Bioware going out of their way to show that the ending was literal, still a small part of me hope y'all are right and might actually buy the next dlc if it confirms IT and fixes the ending. sorry for not joining in on ongoing conversation just wanted to throw my two cents into this massive thread-o-doom.

I am not trying to be prude, but how did the EC disprove IT for you? I am genuinely curious.

I would like to hear as well.  I mean, for me, the EC actually strengthened IT.  Showing Shepard with the Predator during the Beam Run and then showing him with the Predator again in Destroy, that sound on the Citadel when he "wakes up" that's similar if not identical to the sound in Leviathan when he's being yanked between reality and Enthrallment Land, the addition of that line, "SO BE IT," that makes it clear Brat's definitely a Reaper, and Harbinger not shooting down Shepard and the Normandy when they're RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.  Those are the big things, but I think there are others as well.

well i really haven't put as much thought or research into it as y'all have, but for me the epilogue and slides seem to indicate that what happened on the citadel really happened, and as much as i dislike it and am only too happy to call bad writing and poor editing/design on things like transforming guns, magic datapads and polite harbinger i just don't 'feel' IT like i did pre-EC. but i'd be DELIGHTED to be proven wrong and admire you IT'ers dedication.

The EC was kinda disappointing if you expected the IT reveal right there, but if you look closely is the same ending, with stupid obvious retcons for people that don't believe the theory and wanted their literal ending to make a liiiiittle more sense.

The new scenes gave even more credibility for the theory :
- Evacuation scene nonsensical ( probably pointing that the run to the beam is also a dream)
- Harbinger "serve Us"
- Coates dead up in the citadel
- SO BE IT
- In control is pretty clear that Shepard is now a reaper.
- In synthesis is pretty clear all galaxy is now connected to the reapers.
- In the breath scene from destroy you get a hopeful music theme just when shepard wakes up.

Plus, Leviathan DLC pretty much confirmed the scene with the the reaper kid is happening is Shepard´s mind. IT is strong.

yeah there's definitly precedent for it being a possibility, but the fact is it has to be either a literal or indoctrination ending, it can't be both (not into the schrodinger's cat thing) the EC evidence just isn't strong enough for me to buy back into IT, but the leviathan thing actually surprised me, especially leviathan's shifty eyes when asked about the crucible.
 
right now it feels like bioware are either trying to play both sides of the fence or just don't realise when they're adding fuel to the IT fire. i'm inclined to believe the latter because IT is so intricate and relies on some genuinely questionable moments in the game (freaky disappearing vent kid for example) but much more  evidence that's really hard to notice and easily dismissed as design shortcuts (coates on the citadel etc.) or just bad writing (polite harbinger, e tú garrus?, and much more)
 
still i hope y'all keep up the good work and if IT is confirmed i will bow my head to your genious, faith and foresight.

[Tomwew]

401 Kill wrote...

LadySuspense wrote...
So how about those speculations?

Well... I am always looking for excuses to post something from my notes. (Usually posts that I have worked really hard on or just think are pure gold:)) I need to make a new one, but...
Kaboom!

Have you ever read "An Occurance At Owl Creek Bridge"? I think it relates very nicely to the situation here.

A short summary: the main character Farquhar is being hung for a plot to help the confederates in the Civil War. When he is hung, the rope breaks and he attempts to escape. You follow his journey back home, and when he finally gets there it fades to black. He was killed from the hanging, his escape and happy reunion with his wife never happened.  It was an illusion that the reader believed happened until the end.

While the story progressed through his "escape", in reality, he was dead. The author was writing using the realism style of writing, and "making fun" of romanticism writing (The Hero's journey). The author tells the reader many times that the main character is dead, yet the reader will still route for him to escape because of his backstory. "He is the main character, he's got to escape! Go Farquhar!" I thought this related quite nicely to the endings, you see how they all play out, but in reality, Shepard is still in the rubble. "Our entire force was decimated.". Yet we are shown Shepard rising up, and moving forward, and Anderson on the Citadel too. "Our Hero is not done yet, he is invincible!".

The game, and series, have told us that if you remain in close proximity to Reaper Artifacts, you will become indoctrinated. Another fact is that no single mind will be immune to indoctrination. The only reason the Rachni Queen, and the people of Feros' Zhu's Hope colony resisted is because of the "link" between multiple minds that were shared. These links protected them. Currently, Shepard does not have these links. The dreams, the identity crisis, "Struggle if you wish Shepard, your mind will be mine." tell the player that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard, and Shepard is under an influence of indoctrination but still resisting. A lot of players however, will miss these signs if they are not paying attention, seeing as the story will continue to progress. Even the weirdness after Shepard is "hit" by Harbinger's beam will be over-looked, because the story will progress. 
When you look back on it, it seems clear that the Reapers are trying to influence Shepard, just like how it becomes clear that Farquhar was dead from the hanging.  If Shepard was actually hit by Harbingers beam, he would be dead, there is no way around this.

was that made into a film with clint eastwood? if not it was completely ripped off.

[401 Kill]

I don't know, I've only read it.

[CmdrShep80]

Fur28 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So Lord the Rings has 13 votes

Game of Thrones 1 2

edit ^

The day i finish the GoT book, that day i shall vote

whi ch one are you reading?  I'm on the dances with dragons book

[Andromidius]

Jokes about old events are fine, so long as its not still 'fresh'. Tasteless, but fine.

As an aside, one of my great-uncles died at Dunkirk after supposedly pushing his younger brother onto a boat.

And my uncle-in-law (my aunt's ex-husband) broke his leg during the first Gulf War. By falling out of a truck that was stationary.

And my dad went to the Falklands, twice. Never engaged in combat, just liked the food. And he was part of the Signals Corps, despite not knowing how to use a radio.

Fun times!

[LadySuspense]

401 Kill wrote...

LadySuspense wrote...
So how about those speculations?

Well... I am always looking for excuses to post something from my notes. (Usually posts that I have worked really hard on or just think are pure gold:)) I need to make a new one, but...
Kaboom!

Have you ever read "An Occurance At Owl Creek Bridge"? I think it relates very nicely to the situation here.

A short summary: the main character Farquhar is being hung for a plot to help the confederates in the Civil War. When he is hung, the rope breaks and he attempts to escape. You follow his journey back home, and when he finally gets there it fades to black. He was killed from the hanging, his escape and happy reunion with his wife never happened.  It was an illusion that the reader believed happened until the end.

While the story progressed through his "escape", in reality, he was dead. The author was writing using the realism style of writing, and "making fun" of romanticism writing (The Hero's journey). The author tells the reader many times that the main character is dead, yet the reader will still route for him to escape because of his backstory. "He is the main character, he's got to escape! Go Farquhar!" I thought this related quite nicely to the endings, you see how they all play out, but in reality, Shepard is still in the rubble. "Our entire force was decimated.". Yet we are shown Shepard rising up, and moving forward, and Anderson on the Citadel too. "Our Hero is not done yet, he is invincible!".

The game, and series, have told us that if you remain in close proximity to Reaper Artifacts, you will become indoctrinated. Another fact is that no single mind will be immune to indoctrination. The only reason the Rachni Queen, and the people of Feros' Zhu's Hope colony resisted is because of the "link" between multiple minds that were shared. These links protected them. Currently, Shepard does not have these links. The dreams, the identity crisis, "Struggle if you wish Shepard, your mind will be mine." tell the player that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard, and Shepard is under an influence of indoctrination but still resisting. A lot of players however, will miss these signs if they are not paying attention, seeing as the story will continue to progress. Even the weirdness after Shepard is "hit" by Harbinger's beam will be over-looked, because the story will progress. 
When you look back on it, it seems clear that the Reapers are trying to influence Shepard, just like how it becomes clear that Farquhar was dead from the hanging.  If Shepard was actually hit by Harbingers beam, he would be dead, there is no way around this.

I don't know if you read it earlier but I hypothesized that maybe Bioware put in two endings into the game. Two different experiences to be picked out depending on the deduction/other skills of the player. Do they notice the surreal events, and even more importantly do they take stock in them? If so then an IT like derivative may form, if not then maybe a more literal approach. What do you think on this? (And anyone else for that matter?)

[Fur28]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So Lord the Rings has 13 votes

Game of Thrones 1 2

edit ^

The day i finish the GoT book, that day i shall vote

whi ch one are you reading?  I'm on the dances with dragons book

1/4 of the first one, i´m really enjoying it, even more than the TV Seires, but i´m kinda looking for excuses not to read, right now writing this is an excuse

[zigamortis]

I heard game of thrones? What about it?

[401 Kill]

LadySuspense wrote...
I don't know if you read it earlier but I hypothesized that maybe Bioware put in two endings into the game. Two different experiences to be picked out depending on the deduction/other skills of the player. Do they notice the surreal events, and even more importantly do they take stock in them? If so then an IT like derivative may form, if not then maybe a more literal approach. What do you think on this? (And anyone else for that matter?)

I think that possibly, Bioware could expand upon whatever happens after the breath scene as seen by Shepard. They could do this, which would basically confirm IT in Destroy (Assuming the breath scene took place on Earth) But then they could leave the other endings alone, unaltered. That way it would still seem like you won (Control, Synthesis), and you will be none the wiser. We would still be in the same position as we are now, not knowing for sure whether or not Shepard became Indoctrinated in Control and Synthesis.

Modifié par 401 Kill, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:07 .

[BansheeOwnage]

LadySuspense wrote...

I don't know if you read it earlier but I hypothesized that maybe Bioware put in two endings into the game. Two different experiences to be picked out depending on the deduction/other skills of the player. Do they notice the surreal events, and even more importantly do they take stock in them? If so then an IT like derivative may form, if not then maybe a more literal approach. What do you think on this? (And anyone else for that matter?)

It's an interesting idea. In the past I have posited that a possibility for an IT reveal would only change destroy (and possible refuse). So, in a way, you could have the IT end for destroy, and an illusion (from the IT perspective) as you end for synthesis and control. It would allow IT and literal endings at the same time.

Now don't get me wrong, I would love to see you play as an indoctrinated Shepard having to kill you LI or something (it would be sooooo sad ). It would show the controllers and synthesisers.  Just an idea though.

[MaximizedAction]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

It's an interesting idea. In the past I have posited that a possibility for an IT reveal would only change destroy (and possible refuse). So, in a way, you could have the IT end for destroy, and an illusion (from the IT perspective) as you end for synthesis and control. It would allow IT and literal endings at the same time.

Now don't get me wrong, I would love to see you play as an indoctrinated Shepard having to kill you LI or something (it would be sooooo sad ). It would show the controllers and synthesisers.  Just an idea though.

Would love-hate that too. But of course only, if there would be some possibility to talk the LI out of it, I can easily imagine that to be one of the most emotional moments for the trilogy.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:14 .

[LadySuspense]

Thank you Banshee and 401! And yes I think there should be reapercussions (wink wink) if IT is proven, like make a post ending dlc and ITer's get a post breath and, yes, those that ended up being indoctrinated have a scene or a play mode where they are now a thrall.

[CmdrShep80]

zigamortis wrote...

I heard game of thrones? What about it?

if I told you I would spoil it for Fur. But short version is all about what happens to the various families in the lands of Westeros and how they survive interesting events. I would say more but I don't want to risk Fur going you spoiled it now I have an excuse to not read 

[401 Kill]

MaximizedAction wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

It's an interesting idea. In the past I have posited that a possibility for an IT reveal would only change destroy (and possible refuse). So, in a way, you could have the IT end for destroy, and an illusion (from the IT perspective) as you end for synthesis and control. It would allow IT and literal endings at the same time.

Now don't get me wrong, I would love to see you play as an indoctrinated Shepard having to kill you LI or something (it would be sooooo sad ). It would show the controllers and synthesisers.  Just an idea though.

Would love-hate that too. But of course only, if there would be some possibility to talk the LI out of it, I can easily imagine that to be one of the most emotional moments for the trilogy.

If you indeed end up Indoctrinated, I would like the option to have your LI convince you that you were indoctrinated, and have Shepard kill himself.

Modifié par 401 Kill, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[DarthSliver]

Fur28 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So Lord the Rings has 13 votes

Game of Thrones 1 2

edit ^

The day i finish the GoT book, that day i shall vote

whi ch one are you reading?  I'm on the dances with dragons book

1/4 of the first one, i´m really enjoying it, even more than the TV Seires, but i´m kinda looking for excuses not to read, right now writing this is an excuse

i wanna read the game of thrones books, I have the first 2 book based on Legend of the Seeker TV series. I watched GoT show and it is boss. 

Masster Id say watch the one you havent seen yet, both are awesome so watch the one you havent experienced if you havent seen either pick the LOTR only if you have extended edition. Extended edition makes the movies so much better despite making them longer than heck. 

As for IT I do hope this next dlc nicks something in the butt and proves one thing and disproves another. I feel if Bioware hasnt truly shown the true meaning of the ending than it needs to revealed soon. I seen stuff posted in this thread that strongly point to IT being true but I also look at the same stuff as being grasping at straws. Its just all so hard to see, graphical coindences could be pointed to the poorly designed DA2 for why they are there- Bioware got lazy, but than you got the story in ME3 backing the design effects as well as why its there. The fact that the next dlc has alot people and even is bringing back Sam Hullick to do the music proves that this dlc will prove or disapprove many things, only time will tell us what Bioware has instore. There is also the fact that Levithan indocrintation effects could be the same or just as powerful as The Reapers that put Shepard into a state of reality thats not real but seems real to Shepard that you see that Shepard thinks its real with what Shepard saids. Then I keep hearing that the end of Omega DLC points to the ending choices of some sort. It just seems odd that Bioware would go out of their way to show stuff that can prove IT to be real with out openingly saying its real. 

[Fur28]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

I heard game of thrones? What about it?

if I told you I would spoil it for Fur. But short version is all about what happens to the various families in the lands of Westeros and how they survive interesting events. I would say more but I don't want to risk Fur going you spoiled it now I have an excuse to not read 

screw it. 7 Hours non-stop reading time
Then every week i´ll buy the next book
edit: Top for a new hope

Modifié par Fur28, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[Lokanaiya]

Hey, I've been typing up all the evidence I can think of for the beam run being a dream and I just finished a section of it. Do you guys want to see and maybe add something to it?