80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

How could you love literal? I don't get the appeal

Then don't worry about it.

I can ask questions if I like

Just so you know, we're not allowed to tell you where babies come from.

[BansheeOwnage]

Just added 4171 words of awesome to my signature, if anyone cares. Some poeple say they read it when they're bored between posts. It's a good idea actually. As TIM said:

Who knows what information is buried there?

[CoolioThane]

I already know they come from ****ing. I'm a bit pissed off that I'm seemingly not allowed to ask questions. I can ask something which I wish to receive an answer estebanus

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

How could you love literal? I don't get the appeal

Then don't worry about it.

I can ask questions if I like

Just so you know, we're not allowed to tell you where babies come from.

If you must know, I'm sure the internet will be happy to help you.   

Don't worry about it CT.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 30 décembre 2012 - 03:32 .

[CoolioThane]

That's the thing..."don't worry about it".

I am not worrying, just asking, and then explaining. If I ask I don't expect to be pushed to the side with a hand wave for **** sake

[Humakt83]

Rifneno wrote...

Just so you know, we're not allowed to tell you where babies come from.

From the Reaper's digestive system.

Oops.

[Humakt83]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
By the way, how's that Catalyst child avatar working?

Making it now. Have to accompany it with a signature picture that says the following:

"When you burn, are you at war?"

And the image should have image of the "Child" at the end and Shepard burning in a dream.

Modifié par Humakt83, 30 décembre 2012 - 03:46 .

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Rifneno wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

How could you love literal? I don't get the appeal

Then don't worry about it.

I can ask questions if I like

Just so you know, we're not allowed to tell you where babies come from.

Are you allowed to tell me what a circumcision is? 

[Arashi08]

Shameless plug!  also I thought it might answer CT's question, at least from my perspective

[/quote]
Arashi08 wrote...

I've been thinking about the endings a bit more and have been wondering about their purpose and why they were presented to us in such an enigmatic manner. It got me thinking about how we as a culture view stories and how we determine how plots unfold based on both are ability to compose and enjoy stories.

Oftentimes we get a clear understanding of who the antagonist and protagonist in a story is because the story defines them as such. Typically both the reader as well as the characters in the story define who is who based on their actions and the character's perspectives and system of morality. When you look at it this way it does seem like a subjective viewpoint; from the point fo view of the the characters, the antagonist is seen as such based on his or her actions, but more often than not, the antagonist feels that their actions are justifyed in some way, either out of fulfillment of their own selfish desires, or their desire to help others in a kind of "ends justify the means." kind of way.

However, in an interactive medium like video games, there is room for other possibilities, much in the same way a choose-your-own-adventure book let's you interact with the story, a video game gives you even more freedom as you are not necessarily limited by narration. A video game could in theory allow you to decide who will be the protagonist and antagonist based on how the characters see your actions. You can see that alot in games like DA:O, where your companions can see you as a villain, no better than the darkspawn, rather than a hero based on your actions, even though you "evil" character as the same goal as a "good" character. Of course, I think that despite your action you will always be considered the protagonist of the story, but that's because the story in DA:O is central and what you do and what your goal is becomes the primary focus.

What this has to do with the ME3 endings, I feel, may well go back to what a well told story is supposed to do; help you look at things from a different perspective and examine yourself. Or more simply, to teach you a life lesson. Imo this is what a story must do if it can be considered a story well told. And if you think about it these endings may well be attempting to do this. This could work with or without IT but I think IT or something similar would be better because it wil provide a real conclusion to the story and give players a sense of consequence because we can see how our choice affected Shepard as well as the galaxy.

The more I think about these enigmatic endings that don't seem to have any character support at that exact moment and kind of force you to remember what characters throughout the series said about choices like these, while at the same time putting Shepard and by extension the player in this vacuum situation could possibly be seen as an examination of the player's soul. The endings could be a way for the player to examine their convictions and beliefs and put it to the test here in this final room where your actions will affect everything. at this moment you have to examine yourself and what you've learned over the course of three games and see which choice you will make based on your interactions with the various races and their plights. the choice you make determines what kind of person your Shepard is, and possibly who you as a player are.

None of these choices are ideal and you will be forced to deal with some form of loss either of yourself or of others. The game is essentially asking you things like: "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice of yourself to save others? And if you are, do you know what kind of consequences that will bring?" And "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice others to secure peace? And if you are do you know if that will truly end the threat?"

What is the right choice? Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Or perhaps there is a correct choice but you may not see it depending on your view of the world. You have to look at yourself and ask what is right because you don't have anyone else here to tell you what they think, unlike the last two games. Here you are on your own, with only memories and your own sense of morality to guide you.

Imo the endings could also be about a psychological battle where you struggle with yourself and your own sense of morality and whether the guideline of your life that you spent years creating is actually correct for you. The sci-fi story unfolds on the surface, but it represents your own struggle with life and it's objective, amoral nature. What's truly right and what's truly wrong? it it better to enslave and preserve or destroy and liberate? Is surrender truly preferrable to extinction or is life truly worth living without freedom? These could be questions the endings force you to ask yourself, or maybe they only reinforce your convictions. IT adds another layer to this because it may well bring it into perspective for Shepard and the player. Shepard beciming indoctrinated or not could again force players to reexamine themselves because their decision may turn out to be the wrong one because they didn't think it through enough, or didn't pay enough attention to the events unfolding around them to see the truth.

I guess only time will tell whether my guess is correct or not, but if this is similar to what BioWare intended then the endings may well bring a new perspective to how we view stories (or perhaps restore them) as well as how we view out own convictions and judgments of right and wrong.

...Or i could just be overthinking it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much lol . [/quote]

I know most of you have probably seen this already, so feel free to ignore it if you wish

Modifié par Arashi08, 30 décembre 2012 - 04:02 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Arashi08 wrote...

Shameless plug!  also I thought it might answer CT's question, at least from my perspective


Arashi08 wrote...

I've been thinking about the endings a bit more and have been wondering about their purpose and why they were presented to us in such an enigmatic manner. It got me thinking about how we as a culture view stories and how we determine how plots unfold based on both are ability to compose and enjoy stories.

Oftentimes we get a clear understanding of who the antagonist and protagonist in a story is because the story defines them as such. Typically both the reader as well as the characters in the story define who is who based on their actions and the character's perspectives and system of morality. When you look at it this way it does seem like a subjective viewpoint; from the point fo view of the the characters, the antagonist is seen as such based on his or her actions, but more often than not, the antagonist feels that their actions are justifyed in some way, either out of fulfillment of their own selfish desires, or their desire to help others in a kind of "ends justify the means." kind of way.

However, in an interactive medium like video games, there is room for other possibilities, much in the same way a choose-your-own-adventure book let's you interact with the story, a video game gives you even more freedom as you are not necessarily limited by narration. A video game could in theory allow you to decide who will be the protagonist and antagonist based on how the characters see your actions. You can see that alot in games like DA:O, where your companions can see you as a villain, no better than the darkspawn, rather than a hero based on your actions, even though you "evil" character as the same goal as a "good" character. Of course, I think that despite your action you will always be considered the protagonist of the story, but that's because the story in DA:O is central and what you do and what your goal is becomes the primary focus.

What this has to do with the ME3 endings, I feel, may well go back to what a well told story is supposed to do; help you look at things from a different perspective and examine yourself. Or more simply, to teach you a life lesson. Imo this is what a story must do if it can be considered a story well told. And if you think about it these endings may well be attempting to do this. This could work with or without IT but I think IT or something similar would be better because it wil provide a real conclusion to the story and give players a sense of consequence because we can see how our choice affected Shepard as well as the galaxy.

The more I think about these enigmatic endings that don't seem to have any character support at that exact moment and kind of force you to remember what characters throughout the series said about choices like these, while at the same time putting Shepard and by extension the player in this vacuum situation could possibly be seen as an examination of the player's soul. The endings could be a way for the player to examine their convictions and beliefs and put it to the test here in this final room where your actions will affect everything. at this moment you have to examine yourself and what you've learned over the course of three games and see which choice you will make based on your interactions with the various races and their plights. the choice you make determines what kind of person your Shepard is, and possibly who you as a player are.

None of these choices are ideal and you will be forced to deal with some form of loss either of yourself or of others. The game is essentially asking you things like: "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice of yourself to save others? And if you are, do you know what kind of consequences that will bring?" And "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice others to secure peace? And if you are do you know if that will truly end the threat?"

What is the right choice? Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Or perhaps there is a correct choice but you may not see it depending on your view of the world. You have to look at yourself and ask what is right because you don't have anyone else here to tell you what they think, unlike the last two games. Here you are on your own, with only memories and your own sense of morality to guide you.

Imo the endings could also be about a psychological battle where you struggle with yourself and your own sense of morality and whether the guideline of your life that you spent years creating is actually correct for you. The sci-fi story unfolds on the surface, but it represents your own struggle with life and it's objective, amoral nature. What's truly right and what's truly wrong? it it better to enslave and preserve or destroy and liberate? Is surrender truly preferrable to extinction or is life truly worth living without freedom? These could be questions the endings force you to ask yourself, or maybe they only reinforce your convictions. IT adds another layer to this because it may well bring it into perspective for Shepard and the player. Shepard beciming indoctrinated or not could again force players to reexamine themselves because their decision may turn out to be the wrong one because they didn't think it through enough, or didn't pay enough attention to the events unfolding around them to see the truth.

I guess only time will tell whether my guess is correct or not, but if this is similar to what BioWare intended then the endings may well bring a new perspective to how we view stories (or perhaps restore them) as well as how we view out own convictions and judgments of right and wrong.

...Or i could just be overthinking it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much lol .

I know most of you have probably seen this already, so feel free to ignore it if you wish

That was beautiful.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 30 décembre 2012 - 04:08 .

[paxxton]

ME3 lost the GOTY voting.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 décembre 2012 - 04:16 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

CoolioThane wrote...

That's the thing..."don't worry about it".

I am not worrying, just asking, and then explaining. If I ask I don't expect to be pushed to the side with a hand wave for **** sake

Very well, I'll try explaining it. I had always thought that having the Reapers become allies would be an interesting prospect for future ME games and lo and behold the enging of ME3 offers not only one but two ways that would happen. Now though, with my comparison done and new outlook on them, I wish to see the Reapers destroyed because unlike the Homunculi in my comparison, they have nothing to connect to and that removes any chance of forgiveness for their transgression and as sad as the loss of the Geth and other synthetics would be, they were willing to do so for the survival of the galaxy. Now, don't get me wrong, I would love the IT to be true, hence my support of it, but even in the event is isn't, then my feelings towards the endings remains unchanged to my new outlook and thus I will still be able to enjoy the endings if literal. As for some of the inexplainable events, mostly the breath scene, I can easily chalk that up to divine intervention which is perfectly valid in my mind.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

JMDekker2 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

JMDekker2 wrote...

Yeap, if they leave it open forever, it sucks hard. If not, I can live with the way they've gone about it.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I said the same thing not too long ago. Imagine how different it would be if there were no ITers. Everyone would hate them... It kind of sucks for us. I mean, if we're right, great! If not, then we've been defending people who should not have been defended. I think IT is true, but still.

Not entirely true. I'm an ITer now, yet will not enjoy ME3 any less if the endings are literal. I loved it that way for months, after all.

Although I would never be able to enjoy the endings as much if they come out and say they are completely literal, I would still call ME3 my favourite game of all time; as I enjoyed the style of the game and loved the story, characters and setting through the entire trilogy; so I will almost definately be buying ME4 at some point, and keeping an eye on future Bioware games. This is regardless of how the Bioware plays there hand, if they have a hand to play.

Exactly. Even if the endings are terrible, the other 99% of the game was amazing, and that still leaves it with the grade of A+ and me in line to preorder the collectors edition of the next game.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

paxxton wrote...

ME3 lost the GOTY voting.

What?
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...897349&pid=15.1

[paxxton]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

paxxton wrote...

ME3 lost the GOTY voting.

What?
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...897349&pid=15.1

http://www.gamespot....oice/index.html

[Arashi08]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Shameless plug!  also I thought it might answer CT's question, at least from my perspective


Arashi08 wrote...

I've been thinking about the endings a bit more and have been wondering about their purpose and why they were presented to us in such an enigmatic manner. It got me thinking about how we as a culture view stories and how we determine how plots unfold based on both are ability to compose and enjoy stories.

Oftentimes we get a clear understanding of who the antagonist and protagonist in a story is because the story defines them as such. Typically both the reader as well as the characters in the story define who is who based on their actions and the character's perspectives and system of morality. When you look at it this way it does seem like a subjective viewpoint; from the point fo view of the the characters, the antagonist is seen as such based on his or her actions, but more often than not, the antagonist feels that their actions are justifyed in some way, either out of fulfillment of their own selfish desires, or their desire to help others in a kind of "ends justify the means." kind of way.

However, in an interactive medium like video games, there is room for other possibilities, much in the same way a choose-your-own-adventure book let's you interact with the story, a video game gives you even more freedom as you are not necessarily limited by narration. A video game could in theory allow you to decide who will be the protagonist and antagonist based on how the characters see your actions. You can see that alot in games like DA:O, where your companions can see you as a villain, no better than the darkspawn, rather than a hero based on your actions, even though you "evil" character as the same goal as a "good" character. Of course, I think that despite your action you will always be considered the protagonist of the story, but that's because the story in DA:O is central and what you do and what your goal is becomes the primary focus.

What this has to do with the ME3 endings, I feel, may well go back to what a well told story is supposed to do; help you look at things from a different perspective and examine yourself. Or more simply, to teach you a life lesson. Imo this is what a story must do if it can be considered a story well told. And if you think about it these endings may well be attempting to do this. This could work with or without IT but I think IT or something similar would be better because it wil provide a real conclusion to the story and give players a sense of consequence because we can see how our choice affected Shepard as well as the galaxy.

The more I think about these enigmatic endings that don't seem to have any character support at that exact moment and kind of force you to remember what characters throughout the series said about choices like these, while at the same time putting Shepard and by extension the player in this vacuum situation could possibly be seen as an examination of the player's soul. The endings could be a way for the player to examine their convictions and beliefs and put it to the test here in this final room where your actions will affect everything. at this moment you have to examine yourself and what you've learned over the course of three games and see which choice you will make based on your interactions with the various races and their plights. the choice you make determines what kind of person your Shepard is, and possibly who you as a player are.

None of these choices are ideal and you will be forced to deal with some form of loss either of yourself or of others. The game is essentially asking you things like: "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice of yourself to save others? And if you are, do you know what kind of consequences that will bring?" And "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice others to secure peace? And if you are do you know if that will truly end the threat?"

What is the right choice? Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Or perhaps there is a correct choice but you may not see it depending on your view of the world. You have to look at yourself and ask what is right because you don't have anyone else here to tell you what they think, unlike the last two games. Here you are on your own, with only memories and your own sense of morality to guide you.

Imo the endings could also be about a psychological battle where you struggle with yourself and your own sense of morality and whether the guideline of your life that you spent years creating is actually correct for you. The sci-fi story unfolds on the surface, but it represents your own struggle with life and it's objective, amoral nature. What's truly right and what's truly wrong? it it better to enslave and preserve or destroy and liberate? Is surrender truly preferrable to extinction or is life truly worth living without freedom? These could be questions the endings force you to ask yourself, or maybe they only reinforce your convictions. IT adds another layer to this because it may well bring it into perspective for Shepard and the player. Shepard beciming indoctrinated or not could again force players to reexamine themselves because their decision may turn out to be the wrong one because they didn't think it through enough, or didn't pay enough attention to the events unfolding around them to see the truth.

I guess only time will tell whether my guess is correct or not, but if this is similar to what BioWare intended then the endings may well bring a new perspective to how we view stories (or perhaps restore them) as well as how we view out own convictions and judgments of right and wrong.

...Or i could just be overthinking it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much lol .

I know most of you have probably seen this already, so feel free to ignore it if you wish

That was beautiful.

aww thanks!

to clarify, I do still think the endings are clearly flawed, but mainly because they didn't implement the supposedly desired effect in a way that  satisfied the players, so they clearly still need work.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Arashi08 wrote...
aww thanks!

to clarify, I do still think the endings are clearly flawed, but mainly because they didn't implement the supposedly desired effect in a way that  satisfied the players, so they clearly still need work.

That's fine, I can easily see that. I'm just one of those who received the desired effect they were trying to implement, I guess. By no means do I think the endings are the best things ever written, just that they are not nearly as nonsensical as many make them out to be imo.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

paxxton wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

paxxton wrote...

ME3 lost the GOTY voting.

What?
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...897349&pid=15.1

http://www.gamespot....oice/index.html

Above picture still applies, so no point posting another. instead, I will add an emoticon.

[CoolioThane]

Jesus

[Fur28]

CoolioThane wrote...

Jesus

?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fur28 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Jesus

?

What about him?

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 30 décembre 2012 - 04:47 .

[BansheeOwnage]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

How could you love literal? I don't get the appeal

Then don't worry about it.

I can ask questions if I like

Just so you know, we're not allowed to tell you where babies come from.

Are you allowed to tell me what a circumcision is? 

Sanzea... why???

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 30 décembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[BleedingUranium]

I remember that post Arashi, and it's still as good as ever!

[BansheeOwnage]

Arashi08 wrote...

I've been thinking about the endings a bit more and have been wondering about their purpose and why they were presented to us in such an enigmatic manner. It got me thinking about how we as a culture view stories and how we determine how plots unfold based on both are ability to compose and enjoy stories.

Oftentimes we get a clear understanding of who the antagonist and protagonist in a story is because the story defines them as such. Typically both the reader as well as the characters in the story define who is who based on their actions and the character's perspectives and system of morality. When you look at it this way it does seem like a subjective viewpoint; from the point fo view of the the characters, the antagonist is seen as such based on his or her actions, but more often than not, the antagonist feels that their actions are justifyed in some way, either out of fulfillment of their own selfish desires, or their desire to help others in a kind of "ends justify the means." kind of way.

However, in an interactive medium like video games, there is room for other possibilities, much in the same way a choose-your-own-adventure book let's you interact with the story, a video game gives you even more freedom as you are not necessarily limited by narration. A video game could in theory allow you to decide who will be the protagonist and antagonist based on how the characters see your actions. You can see that alot in games like DA:O, where your companions can see you as a villain, no better than the darkspawn, rather than a hero based on your actions, even though you "evil" character as the same goal as a "good" character. Of course, I think that despite your action you will always be considered the protagonist of the story, but that's because the story in DA:O is central and what you do and what your goal is becomes the primary focus.

What this has to do with the ME3 endings, I feel, may well go back to what a well told story is supposed to do; help you look at things from a different perspective and examine yourself. Or more simply, to teach you a life lesson. Imo this is what a story must do if it can be considered a story well told. And if you think about it these endings may well be attempting to do this. This could work with or without IT but I think IT or something similar would be better because it wil provide a real conclusion to the story and give players a sense of consequence because we can see how our choice affected Shepard as well as the galaxy.

The more I think about these enigmatic endings that don't seem to have any character support at that exact moment and kind of force you to remember what characters throughout the series said about choices like these, while at the same time putting Shepard and by extension the player in this vacuum situation could possibly be seen as an examination of the player's soul. The endings could be a way for the player to examine their convictions and beliefs and put it to the test here in this final room where your actions will affect everything. at this moment you have to examine yourself and what you've learned over the course of three games and see which choice you will make based on your interactions with the various races and their plights. the choice you make determines what kind of person your Shepard is, and possibly who you as a player are.

None of these choices are ideal and you will be forced to deal with some form of loss either of yourself or of others. The game is essentially asking you things like: "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice of yourself to save others? And if you are, do you know what kind of consequences that will bring?" And "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice others to secure peace? And if you are do you know if that will truly end the threat?"

What is the right choice? Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Or perhaps there is a correct choice but you may not see it depending on your view of the world. You have to look at yourself and ask what is right because you don't have anyone else here to tell you what they think, unlike the last two games. Here you are on your own, with only memories and your own sense of morality to guide you.

Imo the endings could also be about a psychological battle where you struggle with yourself and your own sense of morality and whether the guideline of your life that you spent years creating is actually correct for you. The sci-fi story unfolds on the surface, but it represents your own struggle with life and it's objective, amoral nature. What's truly right and what's truly wrong? it it better to enslave and preserve or destroy and liberate? Is surrender truly preferrable to extinction or is life truly worth living without freedom? These could be questions the endings force you to ask yourself, or maybe they only reinforce your convictions. IT adds another layer to this because it may well bring it into perspective for Shepard and the player. Shepard beciming indoctrinated or not could again force players to reexamine themselves because their decision may turn out to be the wrong one because they didn't think it through enough, or didn't pay enough attention to the events unfolding around them to see the truth.

I guess only time will tell whether my guess is correct or not, but if this is similar to what BioWare intended then the endings may well bring a new perspective to how we view stories (or perhaps restore them) as well as how we view out own convictions and judgments of right and wrong.

...Or i could just be overthinking it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much lol . [/quote]
Holy crap Arashi. That was very well written and deep. Even though I still think there is only one choice.
To be more specific: There is only one choice in that goes with the themes IMO. If this was real life, control wouldn't be so bad, but I wouldn't trust the leader of the enemy enough to do that. I'd have to see it to believe it, and I'd have to be dead. I could NEVER pick synthesis. Refuse is still strange... Amazing job though!

Great top post! 7 to go!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 30 décembre 2012 - 05:04 .

[Fur28]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Jesus

?

What about him?

maybe he forgot to wish him a Happy B-Day