Ce sujet est ferméThat could be it.Fur28 wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
What about him?Fur28 wrote...
CoolioThane wrote...
Jesus
?
maybe he forgot to wish him a Happy B-Day
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
Débuté par
byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
#74801
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 04:56
Hanako Ikezawa
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Retour en haut
#74802
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 04:57
paxxton
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LOL.LDS Darth Revan wrote...
That could be it.Fur28 wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
What about him?Fur28 wrote...
CoolioThane wrote...
Jesus
?
maybe he forgot to wish him a Happy B-Day
#74803
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 04:57
Fur28
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- Members
- 729 messages
Only one way to know for sureLDS Darth Revan wrote...
That could be it.Fur28 wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
What about him?Fur28 wrote...
CoolioThane wrote...
Jesus
?
maybe he forgot to wish him a Happy B-Day
#74804
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 04:58
Dwailing
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- 4 566 messages
Arashi08 wrote...
aww thanks!LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Arashi08 wrote...
Shameless plug! also I thought it might answer CT's question, at least from my perspective
Arashi08 wrote...
I've been thinking about the endings a bit more and have been wondering about their purpose and why they were presented to us in such an enigmatic manner. It got me thinking about how we as a culture view stories and how we determine how plots unfold based on both are ability to compose and enjoy stories.
Oftentimes we get a clear understanding of who the antagonist and protagonist in a story is because the story defines them as such. Typically both the reader as well as the characters in the story define who is who based on their actions and the character's perspectives and system of morality. When you look at it this way it does seem like a subjective viewpoint; from the point fo view of the the characters, the antagonist is seen as such based on his or her actions, but more often than not, the antagonist feels that their actions are justifyed in some way, either out of fulfillment of their own selfish desires, or their desire to help others in a kind of "ends justify the means." kind of way.
However, in an interactive medium like video games, there is room for other possibilities, much in the same way a choose-your-own-adventure book let's you interact with the story, a video game gives you even more freedom as you are not necessarily limited by narration. A video game could in theory allow you to decide who will be the protagonist and antagonist based on how the characters see your actions. You can see that alot in games like DA:O, where your companions can see you as a villain, no better than the darkspawn, rather than a hero based on your actions, even though you "evil" character as the same goal as a "good" character. Of course, I think that despite your action you will always be considered the protagonist of the story, but that's because the story in DA:O is central and what you do and what your goal is becomes the primary focus.
What this has to do with the ME3 endings, I feel, may well go back to what a well told story is supposed to do; help you look at things from a different perspective and examine yourself. Or more simply, to teach you a life lesson. Imo this is what a story must do if it can be considered a story well told. And if you think about it these endings may well be attempting to do this. This could work with or without IT but I think IT or something similar would be better because it wil provide a real conclusion to the story and give players a sense of consequence because we can see how our choice affected Shepard as well as the galaxy.
The more I think about these enigmatic endings that don't seem to have any character support at that exact moment and kind of force you to remember what characters throughout the series said about choices like these, while at the same time putting Shepard and by extension the player in this vacuum situation could possibly be seen as an examination of the player's soul. The endings could be a way for the player to examine their convictions and beliefs and put it to the test here in this final room where your actions will affect everything. at this moment you have to examine yourself and what you've learned over the course of three games and see which choice you will make based on your interactions with the various races and their plights. the choice you make determines what kind of person your Shepard is, and possibly who you as a player are.
None of these choices are ideal and you will be forced to deal with some form of loss either of yourself or of others. The game is essentially asking you things like: "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice of yourself to save others? And if you are, do you know what kind of consequences that will bring?" And "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice others to secure peace? And if you are do you know if that will truly end the threat?"
What is the right choice? Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Or perhaps there is a correct choice but you may not see it depending on your view of the world. You have to look at yourself and ask what is right because you don't have anyone else here to tell you what they think, unlike the last two games. Here you are on your own, with only memories and your own sense of morality to guide you.
Imo the endings could also be about a psychological battle where you struggle with yourself and your own sense of morality and whether the guideline of your life that you spent years creating is actually correct for you. The sci-fi story unfolds on the surface, but it represents your own struggle with life and it's objective, amoral nature. What's truly right and what's truly wrong? it it better to enslave and preserve or destroy and liberate? Is surrender truly preferrable to extinction or is life truly worth living without freedom? These could be questions the endings force you to ask yourself, or maybe they only reinforce your convictions. IT adds another layer to this because it may well bring it into perspective for Shepard and the player. Shepard beciming indoctrinated or not could again force players to reexamine themselves because their decision may turn out to be the wrong one because they didn't think it through enough, or didn't pay enough attention to the events unfolding around them to see the truth.
I guess only time will tell whether my guess is correct or not, but if this is similar to what BioWare intended then the endings may well bring a new perspective to how we view stories (or perhaps restore them) as well as how we view out own convictions and judgments of right and wrong.
...Or i could just be overthinking it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much lol.
I know most of you have probably seen this already, so feel free to ignore it if you wishThat was beautiful.
to clarify, I do still think the endings are clearly flawed, but mainly because they didn't implement the supposedly desired effect in a way that satisfied the players, so they clearly still need work.
Of course, if you're right, I think BioWare could be at least partially forgiven for an uneven execution since this is, if not the first game to have an ending like this, one of the first.
Modifié par Dwailing, 30 décembre 2012 - 04:59 .
#74806
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 04:58
Hanako Ikezawa
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- Members
- 29 692 messages
He's not here to answer though.Fur28 wrote...
Only one way to know for sureLDS Darth Revan wrote...
That could be it.Fur28 wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
What about him?Fur28 wrote...
CoolioThane wrote...
Jesus
?
maybe he forgot to wish him a Happy B-Day
#74807
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:01
Fur28
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- Members
- 729 messages
Because we can´t handle the truth?LDS Darth Revan wrote...
He's not here to answer though.Fur28 wrote...
Only one way to know for sureLDS Darth Revan wrote...
That could be it.Fur28 wrote...
LDS Darth Revan wrote...
What about him?Fur28 wrote...
CoolioThane wrote...
Jesus
?
maybe he forgot to wish him a Happy B-Day
#74808
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:04
Dwailing
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- Members
- 4 566 messages
spotlessvoid wrote...
Oi
Ohai spotless.
#74809
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:04
Hanako Ikezawa
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- 29 692 messages
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4798570242638682&pid=15.1Fur28 wrote...
Because we can´t handle the truth?
#74810
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:04
BansheeOwnage
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- Members
- 11 290 messages
Hai!spotlessvoid wrote...
Oi
Edit: Dwailing
'd me!!! 
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 30 décembre 2012 - 05:05 .
#74811
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:04
Arashi08
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- 612 messages
[quote]BansheeOwnage wrote...
Arashi08 wrote...
I've been thinking about the endings a bit more and have been wondering about their purpose and why they were presented to us in such an enigmatic manner. It got me thinking about how we as a culture view stories and how we determine how plots unfold based on both are ability to compose and enjoy stories.
Oftentimes we get a clear understanding of who the antagonist and protagonist in a story is because the story defines them as such. Typically both the reader as well as the characters in the story define who is who based on their actions and the character's perspectives and system of morality. When you look at it this way it does seem like a subjective viewpoint; from the point fo view of the the characters, the antagonist is seen as such based on his or her actions, but more often than not, the antagonist feels that their actions are justifyed in some way, either out of fulfillment of their own selfish desires, or their desire to help others in a kind of "ends justify the means." kind of way.
However, in an interactive medium like video games, there is room for other possibilities, much in the same way a choose-your-own-adventure book let's you interact with the story, a video game gives you even more freedom as you are not necessarily limited by narration. A video game could in theory allow you to decide who will be the protagonist and antagonist based on how the characters see your actions. You can see that alot in games like DA:O, where your companions can see you as a villain, no better than the darkspawn, rather than a hero based on your actions, even though you "evil" character as the same goal as a "good" character. Of course, I think that despite your action you will always be considered the protagonist of the story, but that's because the story in DA:O is central and what you do and what your goal is becomes the primary focus.
What this has to do with the ME3 endings, I feel, may well go back to what a well told story is supposed to do; help you look at things from a different perspective and examine yourself. Or more simply, to teach you a life lesson. Imo this is what a story must do if it can be considered a story well told. And if you think about it these endings may well be attempting to do this. This could work with or without IT but I think IT or something similar would be better because it wil provide a real conclusion to the story and give players a sense of consequence because we can see how our choice affected Shepard as well as the galaxy.
The more I think about these enigmatic endings that don't seem to have any character support at that exact moment and kind of force you to remember what characters throughout the series said about choices like these, while at the same time putting Shepard and by extension the player in this vacuum situation could possibly be seen as an examination of the player's soul. The endings could be a way for the player to examine their convictions and beliefs and put it to the test here in this final room where your actions will affect everything. at this moment you have to examine yourself and what you've learned over the course of three games and see which choice you will make based on your interactions with the various races and their plights. the choice you make determines what kind of person your Shepard is, and possibly who you as a player are.
None of these choices are ideal and you will be forced to deal with some form of loss either of yourself or of others. The game is essentially asking you things like: "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice of yourself to save others? And if you are, do you know what kind of consequences that will bring?" And "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice others to secure peace? And if you are do you know if that will truly end the threat?"
What is the right choice? Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Or perhaps there is a correct choice but you may not see it depending on your view of the world. You have to look at yourself and ask what is right because you don't have anyone else here to tell you what they think, unlike the last two games. Here you are on your own, with only memories and your own sense of morality to guide you.
Imo the endings could also be about a psychological battle where you struggle with yourself and your own sense of morality and whether the guideline of your life that you spent years creating is actually correct for you. The sci-fi story unfolds on the surface, but it represents your own struggle with life and it's objective, amoral nature. What's truly right and what's truly wrong? it it better to enslave and preserve or destroy and liberate? Is surrender truly preferrable to extinction or is life truly worth living without freedom? These could be questions the endings force you to ask yourself, or maybe they only reinforce your convictions. IT adds another layer to this because it may well bring it into perspective for Shepard and the player. Shepard beciming indoctrinated or not could again force players to reexamine themselves because their decision may turn out to be the wrong one because they didn't think it through enough, or didn't pay enough attention to the events unfolding around them to see the truth.
I guess only time will tell whether my guess is correct or not, but if this is similar to what BioWare intended then the endings may well bring a new perspective to how we view stories (or perhaps restore them) as well as how we view out own convictions and judgments of right and wrong.
...Or i could just be overthinking it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much lol. [/quote]
Holy crap Arashi. That was very well written and deep. Even though I still think there is only one choice.
To be more specific: There is only one choice in that goes with the themes IMO. If this was real life, control wouldn't be so bad, but I wouldn't trust the leader of the enemy enough to do that. I'd have to see it to believe it, and I'd have to be dead. I could NEVER pick synthesis. Refuse is still strange...
Great top post! 7 to go![/quote]
Thanks! and I agree with you. based om my own interactions with the story and my own morality I would pick destroy every time. putting the endings into perspective like this is even helped me understand my own novel a bit, helping me get past a few hurdles I'd been struggling with.
Arashi08 wrote...
I've been thinking about the endings a bit more and have been wondering about their purpose and why they were presented to us in such an enigmatic manner. It got me thinking about how we as a culture view stories and how we determine how plots unfold based on both are ability to compose and enjoy stories.
Oftentimes we get a clear understanding of who the antagonist and protagonist in a story is because the story defines them as such. Typically both the reader as well as the characters in the story define who is who based on their actions and the character's perspectives and system of morality. When you look at it this way it does seem like a subjective viewpoint; from the point fo view of the the characters, the antagonist is seen as such based on his or her actions, but more often than not, the antagonist feels that their actions are justifyed in some way, either out of fulfillment of their own selfish desires, or their desire to help others in a kind of "ends justify the means." kind of way.
However, in an interactive medium like video games, there is room for other possibilities, much in the same way a choose-your-own-adventure book let's you interact with the story, a video game gives you even more freedom as you are not necessarily limited by narration. A video game could in theory allow you to decide who will be the protagonist and antagonist based on how the characters see your actions. You can see that alot in games like DA:O, where your companions can see you as a villain, no better than the darkspawn, rather than a hero based on your actions, even though you "evil" character as the same goal as a "good" character. Of course, I think that despite your action you will always be considered the protagonist of the story, but that's because the story in DA:O is central and what you do and what your goal is becomes the primary focus.
What this has to do with the ME3 endings, I feel, may well go back to what a well told story is supposed to do; help you look at things from a different perspective and examine yourself. Or more simply, to teach you a life lesson. Imo this is what a story must do if it can be considered a story well told. And if you think about it these endings may well be attempting to do this. This could work with or without IT but I think IT or something similar would be better because it wil provide a real conclusion to the story and give players a sense of consequence because we can see how our choice affected Shepard as well as the galaxy.
The more I think about these enigmatic endings that don't seem to have any character support at that exact moment and kind of force you to remember what characters throughout the series said about choices like these, while at the same time putting Shepard and by extension the player in this vacuum situation could possibly be seen as an examination of the player's soul. The endings could be a way for the player to examine their convictions and beliefs and put it to the test here in this final room where your actions will affect everything. at this moment you have to examine yourself and what you've learned over the course of three games and see which choice you will make based on your interactions with the various races and their plights. the choice you make determines what kind of person your Shepard is, and possibly who you as a player are.
None of these choices are ideal and you will be forced to deal with some form of loss either of yourself or of others. The game is essentially asking you things like: "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice of yourself to save others? And if you are, do you know what kind of consequences that will bring?" And "Are you the kind of person who would sacrifice others to secure peace? And if you are do you know if that will truly end the threat?"
What is the right choice? Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Or perhaps there is a correct choice but you may not see it depending on your view of the world. You have to look at yourself and ask what is right because you don't have anyone else here to tell you what they think, unlike the last two games. Here you are on your own, with only memories and your own sense of morality to guide you.
Imo the endings could also be about a psychological battle where you struggle with yourself and your own sense of morality and whether the guideline of your life that you spent years creating is actually correct for you. The sci-fi story unfolds on the surface, but it represents your own struggle with life and it's objective, amoral nature. What's truly right and what's truly wrong? it it better to enslave and preserve or destroy and liberate? Is surrender truly preferrable to extinction or is life truly worth living without freedom? These could be questions the endings force you to ask yourself, or maybe they only reinforce your convictions. IT adds another layer to this because it may well bring it into perspective for Shepard and the player. Shepard beciming indoctrinated or not could again force players to reexamine themselves because their decision may turn out to be the wrong one because they didn't think it through enough, or didn't pay enough attention to the events unfolding around them to see the truth.
I guess only time will tell whether my guess is correct or not, but if this is similar to what BioWare intended then the endings may well bring a new perspective to how we view stories (or perhaps restore them) as well as how we view out own convictions and judgments of right and wrong.
...Or i could just be overthinking it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much lol
. [/quote]Holy crap Arashi. That was very well written and deep. Even though I still think there is only one choice.
To be more specific: There is only one choice in that goes with the themes IMO. If this was real life, control wouldn't be so bad, but I wouldn't trust the leader of the enemy enough to do that. I'd have to see it to believe it, and I'd have to be dead. I could NEVER pick synthesis. Refuse is still strange...
Great top post! 7 to go![/quote]
Thanks! and I agree with you. based om my own interactions with the story and my own morality I would pick destroy every time. putting the endings into perspective like this is even helped me understand my own novel a bit, helping me get past a few hurdles I'd been struggling with.
#74812
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:05
paxxton
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Oink!spotlessvoid wrote...
Oi
Modifié par paxxton, 30 décembre 2012 - 05:08 .
#74813
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:07
BansheeOwnage
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You are writing a novel? Or do you just mean your personal story?Arashi08 wrote...
Thanks! and I agree with you. based om my own interactions with the story and my own morality I would pick destroy every time. putting the endings into perspective like this is even helped me understand my own novel a bit, helping me get past a few hurdles I'd been struggling with.
#74814
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:07
Dwailing
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paxxton wrote...
Oink!spotlessvoid wrote...
Oi
*Ryan voice* Come here Bacon Bits!
#74815
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:07
Fur28
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Maria Ross destroyed the mini pyramid, the source of all my powerLDS Darth Revan wrote...
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4798570242638682&pid=15.1Fur28 wrote...
Because we can´t handle the truth?
:devil:NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Modifié par Fur28, 30 décembre 2012 - 05:08 .
#74816
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:12
paxxton
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- 8 445 messages
Harbinger in the post-ending DLC.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Oink!spotlessvoid wrote...
Oi
*Ryan voice* Come here Bacon Bits!
#74817
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:13
Hanako Ikezawa
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Fur28 wrote...
Maria Ross destroyed the mini pyramid, the source of all my powerLDS Darth Revan wrote...
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4798570242638682&pid=15.1Fur28 wrote...
Because we can´t handle the truth?
:devil:NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
And with that, our mission is complete and we must return to base. And go watch the movie Flight. See you in a few hours.
#74818
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:13
Dwailing
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- 4 566 messages
paxxton wrote...
Harbinger in the post-ending DLC.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Oink!spotlessvoid wrote...
Oi
*Ryan voice* Come here Bacon Bits!
lolwut?
#74819
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:16
paxxton
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- 8 445 messages
I bumped into that image while searching for bacon bits. Thought it was really funny. That pig even has lasers.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Harbinger in the post-ending DLC.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Oink!spotlessvoid wrote...
Oi
*Ryan voice* Come here Bacon Bits!
lolwut?
#74820
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:17
Fur28
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- 729 messages
But i just watched The Hobbit and with that ended my two movies per year rule:crying:LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Fur28 wrote...
Maria Ross destroyed the mini pyramid, the source of all my powerLDS Darth Revan wrote...
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4798570242638682&pid=15.1Fur28 wrote...
Because we can´t handle the truth?
:devil:NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
#74821
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:19
401 Kill
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Hmm, I see the race to 3000 has begun!
#74823
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:20
BansheeOwnage
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Exceptions will be made for the Hobbit of course. Wait, only 2 movies a year?Fur28 wrote...
But i just watched The Hobbit and with that ended my two movies per year rule:crying:
#74824
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:20
Fur28
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Do you have a post ready to reference the number 3000?401 Kill wrote...
Hmm, I see the race to 3000 has begun!
#74825
Posté 30 décembre 2012 - 05:21
BansheeOwnage
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Saw this yesterday DD. Pure awesome. Saved the picture.DoomsdayDevice wrote...
@401 Oh yes. The race to top of 3000 is clearly on!
