80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Dude, I'm not talking about big decisions or killing squadmates. I'm talking about the regular responses in the dialogue.

More specifically, from Chronos onwards.

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

By the way, on my most recent playthrough, what really stood out to me this time is how vulnerable paragon Shep becomes the closer you get to the ending.

Renegade shep's dialogue is just focused. Shepard doesn't worry about the past, fallen comrades, casualties, she just thinks like a soldier, with a singular purpose.

Paragon Shep constantly worries who she'll lose, doesn't feel well, doesn't have a lot of confidence to win, seems way more doubtful about things.

I really feel like the game is set up to indoctrinate players who play mostly or purely paragon.

The difference is really noticeable. Paragon Shep is the most out of character, renegade Shep is her usual confident self.

Glad someone else noticed!  Here's something I said about it.
The vast majority of responses starting at the point of no return (When the LI sees you) are not paragon or renegade. Now, this happens sometimes in other parts of the trilogy, but this one is very prominent.

Basically, all of the top options after that are Paragon shaken, breaking down, losing resolve against indoctrination.

The bottom options are Renegade undeterred, confident, partially maintaining resolve against indoctrination.

This is interesting in itself, but it is also consistent with the mind trick later which is destroy appearing as renegade, and control as paragon.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 30 décembre 2012 - 05:57 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik is who he is for a good reason. He knows the true horrors of the Reapers in their most gruesome forms. He is the only one who truly understands what needs to be done. There is only ONE way to beat the Reapers, by fighting, being ruthless, and hardening ourselves to loss and preparing ourselves for sacrifices. Javik is a wake up call.

I see what you did there.  The main reason I like Javik, it even though he is a lot of bad things, he admits that it is because of his circumstances and his life.

I love how he softens up a little to Shepard on the FOB, especially if you pick the renegade responses, he really respects you more, haha. It's kind of cute.

[masster blaster]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

By the way, on my most recent playthrough, what really stood out to me this time is how vulnerable paragon Shep becomes the closer you get to the ending.

Renegade shep's dialogue is just focused. Shepard doesn't worry about the past, fallen comrades, casualties, she just thinks like a soldier, with a singular purpose.

Paragon Shep constantly worries who she'll lose, doesn't feel well, doesn't have a lot of confidence to win, seems way more doubtful about things.

I really feel like the game is set up to indoctrinate players who play mostly or purely paragon.

The difference is really noticeable. Paragon Shep is the most out of character, renegade Shep is her usual confident self.

Um killing all your friends is way out of character. i know Wrex can die in ME1 by you hands, but in ME3 you lie to him in his face.

Shepard:  Why would I beatray you Wrex?

Then you kill Wrex.

Dude, I'm not talking about big decisions or killing squadmates. I'm talking about the regular responses in the dialogue.

oh.....

[masster blaster]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik is who he is for a good reason. He knows the true horrors of the Reapers in their most gruesome forms. He is the only one who truly understands what needs to be done. There is only ONE way to beat the Reapers, by fighting, being ruthless, and hardening ourselves to loss and preparing ourselves for sacrifices. Javik is a wake up call.

I see what you did there.  The main reason I like Javik, it even though he is a lot of bad things, he admits that it is because of his circumstances and his life.

He is not bad, but pure epicness. If Zaeed, and him meet....

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Vega is actually the most disliked squadmate. I don't know why, he doesn't bother me. Lotta hate out there though.

I think he meant in-universe by the rest of the squad, but I could be wrong.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

By the way, on my most recent playthrough, what really stood out to me this time is how vulnerable Paragon Shep becomes the closer you get to the ending.

Renegade shep's dialogue is just focused. Shepard doesn't worry about the past, fallen comrades, casualties, she just thinks like a soldier, with a singular purpose.

Paragon Shep constantly worries who she'll lose, doesn't feel well, doesn't have a lot of confidence to win, seems way more doubtful about things.

I really feel like the game is set up to indoctrinate players who play mostly or purely paragon.

The difference is really noticeable. Paragon Shep is the most out of character, renegade Shep is her usual confident self.

You're completely right, and I can tell you the exact moment that started.  Arrival.  When we got to talking with Harbinger at the end, the paragon response is all sissy nonsense.  "Sure, maybe you're right and we have no chance... but we're gonna try anyway, I guess..."  Renegade response is honey badger levels of aggressive and tells him that Shepard'll blow up half the galaxy if he needs to in order to beat the Reapers.  None of those "woe is me, maybe we really can't win" garbage.  It's straight teeth-to-balls.

Seriously, that paragon response in Arrival made me go all sorts of wtf.

It's right there from the beginning, but it gets really worse after Thessia.

[masster blaster]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Vega is actually the most disliked squadmate. I don't know why, he doesn't bother me. Lotta hate out there though.

I think he meant in-universe by the rest of the squad, but I could be wrong.

Well fans wanted some ( All ME squad mates) on the Normandy/squad party, yet Vega took a spot. Edi however was well liked, yet people hated here body. So 2 wasted squad mates we could had.

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Vega is actually the most disliked squadmate. I don't know why, he doesn't bother me. Lotta hate out there though.

I think he meant in-universe by the rest of the squad, but I could be wrong.

No, I actually meant liked by fans. I wouldn't know the actual statistics, but I think it's fair to assume he won't win any popularity contests. Rif might be right about Vega, but you get my point, I hope.

Javik has really grown on me. What didn't kill him, made him stronger.

[BansheeOwnage]

@DD Edited above post.

[masster blaster]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

By the way, on my most recent playthrough, what really stood out to me this time is how vulnerable Paragon Shep becomes the closer you get to the ending.

Renegade shep's dialogue is just focused. Shepard doesn't worry about the past, fallen comrades, casualties, she just thinks like a soldier, with a singular purpose.

Paragon Shep constantly worries who she'll lose, doesn't feel well, doesn't have a lot of confidence to win, seems way more doubtful about things.

I really feel like the game is set up to indoctrinate players who play mostly or purely paragon.

The difference is really noticeable. Paragon Shep is the most out of character, renegade Shep is her usual confident self.

You're completely right, and I can tell you the exact moment that started.  Arrival.  When we got to talking with Harbinger at the end, the paragon response is all sissy nonsense.  "Sure, maybe you're right and we have no chance... but we're gonna try anyway, I guess..."  Renegade response is honey badger levels of aggressive and tells him that Shepard'll blow up half the galaxy if he needs to in order to beat the Reapers.  None of those "woe is me, maybe we really can't win" garbage.  It's straight teeth-to-balls.

Seriously, that paragon response in Arrival made me go all sorts of wtf.

It's right there from the beginning, but it gets really worse after Thessia.

You know if you notice TIM, and Saren are,,, Renegades. Before they
became Indoctrinated they were Renegades, yet when Indoctrinated their
Renegade side grew tremendously.

[401 Kill]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
I really feel like the game is set up to indoctrinate players who play mostly or purely paragon.

I play almost full Paragon, and I was never fooled. I like choosing the options where Shepard show weakness, and mourning, but you dont focus on that, that is your motivation to push forward. At least, that's the vibe I get. That's probably why the dream sequences are my favorite parts of the game. "You're the only friend I've made in ten years." My god that is a powerfull line.

[Rifneno]

masster blaster wrote...

You know if you notice TIM, and Saren are,,, Renegades. Before they
became Indoctrinated they were Renegades, yet when Indoctrinated their
Renegade side grew tremendously.

We almost nothing of either one before they got involved with the Arca Monolith.

[BleedingUranium]

401 Kill wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
I really feel like the game is set up to indoctrinate players who play mostly or purely paragon.

I play almost full Paragon, and I was never fooled. I like choosing the options where Shepard show weakness, and mourning, but you dont focus on that, that is your motivation to push forward. At least, that's the vibe I get. That's probably why the dream sequences are my favorite parts of the game. "You're the only friend I've made in ten years." My god that is a powerfull line.

Agreed

[masster blaster]

You know if they are planning and IT dlc, which will rap up ME3/ Shepard. Then Don't you think they would want to go back in ME1-ME3 and makes sure they got all the possible out comes. All your choices. Both minor, and big have an out come.

[ZerebusPrime]

A quick observation from my most recent playthrough.

 (right after picking up Eve)
Joker (regarding allying the Turians and Krogan together): I'd feel better if we had a tighter plan.  Like time travel.  Or teaching the Reapers to love.

Synthesis was Joker's idea!  He wants Shepard to plug everyone in a la Overlord so we can live in harmony computing Pi all day long.

Modifié par ZerebusPrime, 30 décembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[BansheeOwnage]

BleedingUranium wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
I really feel like the game is set up to indoctrinate players who play mostly or purely paragon.

I play almost full Paragon, and I was never fooled. I like choosing the options where Shepard show weakness, and mourning, but you dont focus on that, that is your motivation to push forward. At least, that's the vibe I get. That's probably why the dream sequences are my favorite parts of the game. "You're the only friend I've made in ten years." My god that is a powerfull line.

Agreed

Yes. That line. Have to disagree with the dreams though. Or at least, the one that plays in the middle of the LI scene.

Hopefully if there is an IT reveal, a newgame+ will disable that one!

[DoomsdayDevice]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Glad someone else noticed!  Here's something I said about it.
The vast majority of responses starting at the point of no return (When the LI sees you) are not paragon or renegade. Now, this happens sometimes in other parts of the trilogy, but this one is very prominent.

Basically, all of the top options after that are Paragon shaken, breaking down, losing resolve against indoctrination.

The bottom options are Renegade undeterred, confident, partially maintaining resolve against indoctrination.

This is interesting in itself, but it is also consistent with the mind trick later which is destroy appearing as renegade, and control as paragon.

Yeah, agreed.

It's bizarre how you can at the same time argue that the colours are reversed in the ending, because destroying the Reapers would seem to be the paragon thing to do, and is associated with Anderson, yet it is red. But in ME2, the renegade choices were associated with siding with TIM.

At the same time (and from a literal perspective) you could just as easily argue that destroy is renegade because you ruthlessly sacrifice to have a victory at "any" cost, and it's not strange for Paragon Shep to let the bad guy walk away so she can save the innocents.

On the other hand, just because Anderson isn't a pure renegade character, doesn't mean he would never do the renegade thing. Anderson is a soldier. He would complete the mission. Besides, he hates politics.

[BansheeOwnage]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

A quick observation from my most recent playthrough.

 (right after picking up Eve)
Joker (regarding allying the Turians and Krogan together): I'd feel better if we had a tighter plan.  Like time travel.  Or teaching the Reapers to love.

Synthesis was Joker's idea!  He wants Shepard to plug everyone in a la Overlord so we can live in harmony computing Pi all day long.

Hahahahahahahahaha! Wait. Then where does time travel fit in? I guess it's kind of like that if we wake up and nothing happened...

[ZerebusPrime]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

A quick observation from my most recent playthrough.

 (right after picking up Eve)
Joker (regarding allying the Turians and Krogan together): I'd feel better if we had a tighter plan.  Like time travel.  Or teaching the Reapers to love.

Synthesis was Joker's idea!  He wants Shepard to plug everyone in a la Overlord so we can live in harmony computing Pi all day long.

Hahahahahahahahaha! Wait. Then where does time travel fit in? I guess it's kind of like that if we wake up and nothing happened...

Well, the last bit is set in the all too distant future.

[masster blaster]

You know when the Catalyst talks about Shepard's hope I never thought that maybe it is a hint.

Paragon Shepard choice Catalyst :You have hope more than you know
Renegade Shepard choice Catalyst:You have hope more than what you deserve


Harbinger: Hope is irrelevant.

[BansheeOwnage]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Glad someone else noticed!  Here's something I said about it.
The vast majority of responses starting at the point of no return (When the LI sees you) are not paragon or renegade. Now, this happens sometimes in other parts of the trilogy, but this one is very prominent.

Basically, all of the top options after that are Paragon shaken, breaking down, losing resolve against indoctrination.

The bottom options are Renegade undeterred, confident, partially maintaining resolve against indoctrination.

This is interesting in itself, but it is also consistent with the mind trick later which is destroy appearing as renegade, and control as paragon.

Yeah, agreed.

It's bizarre how you can at the same time argue that the colours are reversed in the ending, because destroying the Reapers would seem to be the paragon thing to do, and is associated with Anderson, yet it is red. But in ME2, the renegade choices were associated with siding with TIM.

At the same time (and from a literal perspective) you could just as easily argue that destroy is renegade because you ruthlessly sacrifice to have a victory at "any" cost, and it's not strange for Paragon Shep to let the bad guy walk away so she can save the innocents.

On the other hand, just because Anderson isn't a pure renegade character, doesn't mean he would never do the renegade thing. Anderson is a soldier. He would complete the mission. Besides, he hates politics.

It's all weird huh? I think Anderson said in ME1 he knows you have to make tough decisions sometimes though. Control and destroy are strange to me when I try to figure which is paragon and which is renegade. I think I would argue that they are both renegade in a sense. Control is lust-for-power renegade, and destroy is ruthless renegade. Refuse is more like the paragon destroy.

By the way I think there are supposed to be lines going through the words "renegade" and "paragon" above, bit that it matters much.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 30 décembre 2012 - 06:13 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

A quick observation from my most recent playthrough.

 (right after picking up Eve)
Joker (regarding allying the Turians and Krogan together): I'd feel better if we had a tighter plan.  Like time travel.  Or teaching the Reapers to love.

Synthesis was Joker's idea!  He wants Shepard to plug everyone in a la Overlord so we can live in harmony computing Pi all day long.

Haha, yeah, I noticed that one too.

Again, Javik's awesomeness:

Javik: The Sinril claimed to have found the path to eternal peace.
Garrus: So what happened?
Javik: The Dittakar preferred war, and wiped them out.
Garrus: I hope you guys had alcohol.

[401 Kill]

masster blaster wrote...

You know if they are planning and IT dlc, which will rap up ME3/ Shepard. Then Don't you think they would want to go back in ME1-ME3 and makes sure they got all the possible out comes. All your choices. Both minor, and big have an out come.

I dont think minor choices like, say, helping that plague infected Batarian on Omega will have an impact, but things such as saving the Rachni Queen twice should.

[masster blaster]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Glad someone else noticed!  Here's something I said about it.
The vast majority of responses starting at the point of no return (When the LI sees you) are not paragon or renegade. Now, this happens sometimes in other parts of the trilogy, but this one is very prominent.

Basically, all of the top options after that are Paragon shaken, breaking down, losing resolve against indoctrination.

The bottom options are Renegade undeterred, confident, partially maintaining resolve against indoctrination.

This is interesting in itself, but it is also consistent with the mind trick later which is destroy appearing as renegade, and control as paragon.

Yeah, agreed.

It's bizarre how you can at the same time argue that the colours are reversed in the ending, because destroying the Reapers would seem to be the paragon thing to do, and is associated with Anderson, yet it is red. But in ME2, the renegade choices were associated with siding with TIM.

At the same time (and from a literal perspective) you could just as easily argue that destroy is renegade because you ruthlessly sacrifice to have a victory at "any" cost, and it's not strange for Paragon Shep to let the bad guy walk away so she can save the innocents.

On the other hand, just because Anderson isn't a pure renegade character, doesn't mean he would never do the renegade thing. Anderson is a soldier. He would complete the mission. Besides, he hates politics.

I don't know, When you talk to Anderson about Saren. He was horrified what Saren did to those people.
Then again Anderson let the major cities get harvested, while he, and his troops run/ small hit and run tactics.

[401 Kill]

masster blaster wrote...

You know when the Catalyst talks about Shepard's hope I never thought that maybe it is a hint.

Paragon Shepard choice Catalyst :You have hope more than you know
Renegade Shepard choice Catalyst:You have hope more than what you deserve


Harbinger: Hope is irrelevant.

Nice catch! Lots of what the Catalyst says contradicts what the Reapers have said.