80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Arashi08]

for some reason this makes me wonder about who might the Krogan's Councilor be if they got a spot on the Council after this. I always thought that Bakara would be a good choice, not like the Council would allow them to have a Council seat anytime soon, probably.

[masster blaster]

. If Urdnot Wrex is alive, he notes that Aralakh Company is his best unit, and he put Grunt in charge because he exemplifies the bright future of the krogan, something Wrex hopes for his people.

So If Grunt is the future for the krogan, then if he is not in Synthesis.... The Krogan have no future. I mean there is no future in Synthesis. Sure the EC proves wrong, but Grunt is the Future for the Krogan.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 décembre 2012 - 06:51 .

[CmdrShep80]

masster blaster wrote...

You know I always wonder, The only squad mate that doesn't have a picture for all the endings is Grunt. Why isn't Grunt in Synthesis.Is this a clue that we should look into?

could it be he dies in most people's games?

[401 Kill]

I have to go... It apears that I won't be hear for page 3000... Oh well. Maybe I'll make a surprise apearence.

[masster blaster]

So of a *****

Control is Miranda implanting a control chip in Shepard.
Synthesis is having Shepard broken down, as in everything that Shepard has done will be Destroyed.
Destroy wakes up Shepard
Refuse Shepard gives up

[CmdrShep80]

paxxton wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

ME3 lost the GOTY voting.

but won the daily news game of the year. The irony is all the games were identical in the list between the two so I say, gamespot I demand a recount!

Considering that FC3 did not have to beat most of the highly-acclaimed games of 2012 (SSX, Dishonored, X-COM, Max Payne 3 or AC3), I would question the validity of that whole voting process.

im surprised ac3 wasn't higher up on the list. I'm also surprised borderlands 2 lost too despite all the hype I kept hearing about. 

[DoomsdayDevice]

I won't be here for 3000 either.

I'll see y'all on the other side.

And remember, kids.

[CmdrShep80]

401 Kill wrote...

I have to go... It apears that I won't be hear for page 3000... Oh well. Maybe I'll make a surprise apearence.

but it's just 3 pages away. Think. What would Shepard do?  He wouldn't turn back, he would press forward and go for the win!

[masster blaster]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

I have to go... It apears that I won't be hear for page 3000... Oh well. Maybe I'll make a surprise apearence.

but it's just 3 pages away. Think. What would Shepard do?  He wouldn't turn back, he would press forward and go for the win!

Then fall into the Synthesis beam, and doom the whole galaxy.:devil::devil:

[masster blaster]

TIM:They are just trying to Control US. Think about it. If they wanted all organic life Destroyed, they could do it...

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 décembre 2012 - 06:57 .

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

I have to go... It apears that I won't be hear for page 3000... Oh well. Maybe I'll make a surprise apearence.

but it's just 3 pages away. Think. What would Shepard do?  He wouldn't turn back, he would press forward and go for the win!

Then fall into the Synthesis beam, and doom the whole galaxy.:devil::devil:

I doubt I'll get the top of Page 3000. Too many people are aiming at that spot at once.

[masster blaster]

Holy S***. I found a good renegade option for the Conversation with TIM, on Thessia, and Cronus station, and the Citadel.



okay this sums up everything I was trying to say about Renegade Shepard.

Okay on Thessia Tim says " They are just trying to Control US. Think about it. If they wanted all organic life Destroyed, they could do it..."
then TIM says " I know them Shepard. I know how they think."

Well of course you do your Indoctrinated. That's why you can think like they do.

Then my personal favorite Shepard: " The Reapers have it right. Your Indoctrinated.Your doing just what they want."

Then TIM says: "And I can say the same to you. Wasting your time, on a war that can not be won."

But then Shepard says " At LEAST I am fighting."

dam makes you wonder if Destroy you are still fighting.

But then TIM says " Never question my ability to fight. I've been fighting the Reapers longer than you can imagine."

Oh so he has been fighting the Reapers, but you only can now that if you read the comic book, about how TIM got his eyes, and Cerberus stated.
But then TIM says later " Shepard there are choices coming that you're not equipped to make."

major foreshadowing, and Equipped to make, but what does he mean equipped to make?

But then Shepard says " At least I'll be making them as a human being, your just some Reaper puppet."

okay next is Cronus station okay nothing major here, but Shepard asked TIM, about how many did you kill to get to where you are at, but TIM says " You wouldn't listen to me"


Okay this is the last Conversation we have with TIM, he tells Shepard that He needs Shepard to believe, but for what, and then later Shepard tells TIM that that the power has clouded him, and the TIM tells SHEPARD " Are YOU going to Control the Reapers." That's right.He tells Shepard are you going to Control the Reapers. Then TIM goes rage quite when Shepard tells Tim you are weak, and selfish, but it's funny because TIM says " I am the Pinnacle of our species

Harbinger "we are the principle of Evolution."

I did this because Renegade Shepard always get's on TIMs bad side, and TIM revels much more information, unlike Paragon Shepard. So the difference is that Renegade Shepard shows that TIM is Indoctrinated, and Shepard might be going under Indoctrination. But Paragon Shepard always questions if you can does hits, then help me. But renegade Shepard is like if you can do it, then do it.

I think that's why Bioware asked have you played through ALL possible out comes yet, since renegade revels much more about the endings, but Paragon is always trying to get Tim on his/her side, but without questioning, that TIM is Indoctrinated.

Edit:Please if you have something to say say it please.
I worked about an hour on this so please let me know if you like it, or not.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 décembre 2012 - 07:01 .

[paxxton]

random post

Modifié par paxxton, 30 décembre 2012 - 07:02 .

[Rifneno]

401 Kill wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

@Rif/401 Wait, the cue for that line is you genophage decision?

I remember him saying something like:
"I was checking the files and the desicion on curing the genophage or not determines if the child is an ass to you."

Some sort of flag was set.

I'm not saying that's the only thing that could do it, or even that it definitely is what did it for me.  But I checked the conditionals and found the flag that determines whether Starbinger is grumpy and needs a nap, and I went through saves for 5 or so different playthroughs checking it.  It's defaulted to 0 (full on bratmode) but it always got set to 1 (omnicidal maniac - nice kid edition) between the last possible place to save on Tuchanka and the first possible place to save afterwards.  I've always cured the genophage, so yeah...  it could be a lot more complex than this since most of my playthroughs are very similar decisionwise.  i.e. if you've got Wreav instead of Wrex, it might be reversed or something.

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Okay I was watching the Control ending on the EC, and somethings was odd about when Shepard was about to put her left hand, it looked to me like she was hesitating.
and then her arms began to glow green, like synthesis.



Look at 0:08 to 0:13 Shepard is hesitating, but after that she is not.

Now pause the video at 0:19, or 0:21 you can see Shepard's hands glowing like in Synthesis. Weird isn't it.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 décembre 2012 - 07:05 .

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

So what you are saying is, the Reapers are tempting you with power or offering you to be the hero.
But those are flawled options because according to the lore in previous instances they led to indoctrination?

That's the point. the Catalyst is promising Shepard that the cycle will end in Control ( Well sort of), and Synthesis, but not Destroy.

And if you pick Synthesis, and Control they are promising false hope, and are just using Shepard to gain what they want.

Thus for IT this makes sense Shepard is in the same position as Saren and TIM were.

You could have fought: Destroy
You could have resisted: Control
Instead you surrendered: Synthesis
You quit: Refuse

I
think if you pick Control you can still fight them, but you could have
resisted to help the Reapers/the galaxy, for your own gain.
 But you
didn't You gave into the Catalyst manipulative words about Control and
did it for your own gain, not the galaxy's, but Shepard's/the players own
gain.

So is Synthesis, and refuse the players/Shepard's own gain.

But Destroy is everyone's gain.

the
Organics, and Synthetics of this cycle want the Reapers dead, only the
Indoctrinated organics, and synthetics want the Reapers to live, for
their own gain.

TIM" I took what I wanted from them made it my own. Shepard I did this for humanity"
Saren: "my
way is the ONLY WAY any of us will survive. I am forging an alliance
between us and the Reapers between ORGANICS AN MACHINES, and in doing so
I WILL SAVE more LIVES than ever existed."

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 décembre 2012 - 07:10 .

[Andromidius]

TJBartlemus wrote...

He created the theory? Didn't know that. 

I think he'll be the first one to say he didn't, but he was there since the beginning and was the one who's made all the 'official' threads.

[masster blaster]

Edit: Figure I should add this here and in bold red text. If I ignore your PM, its not because I dont find whatever you sent me interesting or relevant to the theory (to be fair, it could mean that, but it probably doesnt), its just that I'm getting tons of PMs so its hard to keep track of stuff.

Byne how many pm's did you get in the first month?

[paxxton]

Andromidius wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

He created the theory? Didn't know that. 

I think he'll be the first one to say he didn't, but he was there since the beginning and was the one who's made all the 'official' threads.

Who are you talking about? What theory?

[Andromidius]

paxxton wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

He created the theory? Didn't know that. 

I think he'll be the first one to say he didn't, but he was there since the beginning and was the one who's made all the 'official' threads.

Who are you talking about? What theory?

Byne, this theory.

[masster blaster]

Is it just me, or does the entire ending sequence not feel like it fits
in with the overall theme of the ME universe? It just feels.... off. I
cant really describe it.

It seems otherworldly and kind of unfocused.

And when you talk to TIM, you get those weird black things at the edges of the screen.

I
am of the opinion that once reaching the Citadel, severely wounded, and
losing blood, Shepard hallucinated most of the ending sequence.

It would explain why the kid was there.

The
weird blackness when TIM tried to control you and you tried to fight it
could be Shepard fighting against blood loss and trying not to pass out
(hence the darkening around the edges of the screen)

It explains
how even the crew who were wounded with you near the portal in London
ended up on the Normandy, and even why the Normandy was leaving Earth in
the first place, its because Shepard isnt thinking clearly, and these
are just the images dreamed up by a deteriorating brain.

Also,
there is a likelyhood that having spent so much time around Reapers,
Shepard is slightly indoctrinated. The Synthesis ending really doesnt
make much sense, other than the fact that the little kid seems to think
it is the best option. We never get an explanation on how jumping into a
beam of energy that kills us will do anything like what it is said it
will do.

The Reapers used Shepard's slight indoctrination and
confused state as part of a last ditch effort to get Shepard to take
himself out of the picture, since they knew that if they didnt do so,
Shepard was about to win.

tl;dr blood loss leads to reaper victory

Hallucination makes the most sense, in my humble opinion.

Maybe
Bioware will release a DLC where it turns out the horrible endings were
all just a hallucination that you experienced after you got knocked
unconscious by Harbinger while heading towards the portal thingy, and
then you can go on to have endings that actually make sense.

Edit: fixed my weird formatting
Edit 2: Adding a list summarizing the theories that people have come up with in the thread, compiled by Turtlicious:


recap:

Thought on the ending:

THE THEORIES. (by Turtlicious)

There
are two theories for WHEN Shepard's subtle indoctrination starts, these
theories will be numbered, there are two theories when his full blown
hallucinations start. These are lettered. Simply pick a number and a
letter, or just a number, or just a letter. This way, you can have your
special theory.

theory 1 is that indoctrination is at the start
of ME3 and that during the whole game every dream is more and more
indoctrination. Also, there is an indoctrination device on the normandy,
(supported by Vega mentioning a Hum all throughout the game) This is
supported by the re-apperance of the RGC all througout the game. People
disagree because people believe Indoctrination, (from now on condensed
to ID) is not as subtle as that, and would not only affect dreams.

Theory
2 is that it happens on the Normandy, that the child is real in the
beginning, but once on the Normandy, you start to get indoctrinated,
which is supported by Vega hearing the Hum. The same reasons as above
but SLIGHTLY more credible due to the poster of the missing earth child.
People disagree with Theory 2 for the same reasons as theory 1.

Theory
A is what I like to call the "Ilos Run" theory, that you're ID is full
blown on the shuttle as soon as you leave the shuttle. This theory
concludes that the shuttle was blown up at some point, that you were
buried beneath rubble, and harbinger is trying to indoctrinate you to
retrieve the body. It is supported by the dreamy quality of the run
itself, and the lack of squadmates following you, soon as the ID gets
stronger, you go full on dream mode. This is to compensate for the
"Dream Trees" at the very beginning of the run

Theory B is that
your full blown indoctrination is not until you get pwnt by the laser.
and that at that point you are passed out at the crucible, and Harbinger
is doing what he has always wanted, (ID of Shep) This is supported due
to the realistic look of the run down the hill.

THE PROOF:

Parts 1-12 by kyleh619

1.
The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers
(Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live.
Shepard is not awake during the final sceens!

2. Choosing to control the Reapers allows them to live. Reapers win. They will still exist.

3. Choosing to combine organic and synthetic life: Reapers win. They will still exist.

4. Choosing to destroy all synthetic life: Reapers loose. Shepard lives. Reapers die.

5.
Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in
appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The
Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's
choice should not be Renegade.

6. Shepard awakes at the end of
destroying Reapers. But Shepard is not awaking from the aftermath. He is
awaking from either after he is hit by Harbingers lazer attack on Earth
or after the scene with Anderson and the Illusive Man.

7.
Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause;
destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice
exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound
better.

8. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings"
because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the
Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

9. Never trust any child construct, be it a ghost or artificial intelligence, or heck even human. They are just creepy.

10. Shepard awakes at the end because he has broken hold of the Reaper's control.

11.
Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various
Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact
from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of
indoctrination.

12.
Bioware not only get more $$$ for DLC for the final battle, but big
props for INDOCTRINATING A LOT OF ITS OWN PLAYERS! I do not know of
another gaming company that has tried to fool all of its consumers, but
they look to be the first and reap all of the attention.

13. Look
at these screenshots. I believe the 1m1 is a clue, because of how often
it shows up, and how human it is, when the ship is supposedly older
then the ancients.

14. Definitions:


Catalyst =
One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences


Crucible=
A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial. See Synonyms at trial.

15. Shepard is not wearing his armor when he wakes up in the Citadel, implying that this is a dream.

Deklan_Caine wrote...

I
have a couple of observations to contribute to the theory that it
doesn't seem like others have caught (apologies if someone else caught
these already and I missed it...):

16) As soon as Shepherd "wakes
up" after being blasted by the Reaper laser, he's limping. If, as
you're playing, you try to look/aim down at Shep's feet, you can't. The
view angle get's blocked so that you can't see  below his/her knees. If
you watch the pace of the legs moving, though, it becomes really obvious
that Shepherd is moving considerably faster than he is actually
walking, almost floating as it were. At first when I noticed this in the
my second play-though I just figured it was designed that way because
making Shepherds speed the same as his walk would make the last moments
in the game take 3 times longer (and it already seemed to take forever).
But if we're rolling with the hallucination/indoctrination theory, then
the fact that he's practically floating on his feet just adds more fuel
to the fire...

17) The line Harbinger repeated over and over in
ME2 was that the Reapers would be "your salvation through destruction."
Well, the synthesis and control options are literally salvation for the
galaxy through Shep's destruction, buying into a compliance mindset. The
only option that  leaves Shep breathing is to destroy the Reapers,
which has been the point since ME1. All the evidence points to the last
sequence being a battle for Shepards mind that is only won when Shep
chooses the path that the god-kid tries to convince him not to take.

by Luc0s

18)

Check this footage:


Listen carefully and you'll hear 3 very distinct voices when the Catalyst speaks. Strange you say? It's getting even stranger...

Listen REALLY carefully and you'll hear that the
3 voices are a kids voice, femShep's voice and maleShep's voice.

The first voice you'll hear is the kid's voice. His voice is the loudest and panned in the middle.

The
second voice is femShep's voice. Her voice is panned to the left.  If
you carry a headphone, you'll hear her only in the left speaker of your
phone.

The last voice is maleShep's voice. His voice is rather
hard to hear because he's almost whispering, but it's clearly manShep's
voice. If you carry a headphone, you can hear that his voice is panned
to the right speaker.

19) Anderson is clearly killed by the laser

20) No squad members are scene once you're hit by the laser

21)
after being hit by the laser, you see shadowy whisps on the floor,
similar to the much larger whisps seen in the dreams during the game.


Kitten Tactics:

-The
endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers
(Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live.
Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing
Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper
code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing
to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence.
Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive
Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice
should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the
worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to
fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give
you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion.
This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are
ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because
the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2
"endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to
allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does
not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but
Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson
calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking
to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been
"snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after
being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when
Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they
realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During
Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the
radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the
reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard
has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper
artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The
Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of
indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.


From lookingglassmind:



In defense of the
Hallucination/Indoctrination theory: the BioWare/Player Indoctrination
Theory

With the assistance of my peers throughout
the rest of this thread, I have collated a series of facts that I would
like to present to the community as being evidence for a a priori
intention for the endings of ME3. Some of this information will not be
new to a lot of you, and it may seem downright strange to a lot of you. 
It does require a strong and disorienting amount of suspension of 
disbelief, so if you cannot engage in this type of thought process, I
encourage you to skip over this post. It will hurt your brain. Or
make you think that I'm crazy. Likely both. (I'm okay with either.)

With
the assistance of countless others' highly important observations in
this thread, I sumbit to you that possibility the endings of ME3
represent the highest form of the metagaming experience. The highest
form of BioWare's "giving the player choice that matters, from ME1 to
ME3". The highest form of player interaction that we have yet seen from a
video game. This has never before been attempted by a company, and it
represents the ballsiest dedication to story and lore that may exist.

I
believe that the endings may be indicative of BioWare attempting to
allow the player the real-time experience of what indoctrination would
be like. This theory explains (in a highly weird, impossible, and
completely insane way) all of the missing pieces in the hallucination
sequence, and also explains BioWare's real-world actions (such as
complete silence since the fan sh*tstorm broke in response to the endings).

If
you have not been keeping up with the thread, or if you have not read
Byne's/Kitten Tactics/Turtlicious' amalgamation of all of the evidence
we have accumulated for the originial hallucination theory on page 1,
then I  would urge you to do so before you read any more of this post.
Due to time constraints, I won't be posting all of the evidences that we
have located in this post to confirm or contradict this theory: I leave
it in your capable and self-aware hands to attain this information
yourself. I am posting this as an add-on to page 1, as I don't think it
was properly represented there in its entire grand scope.

So, to the meat of the issue:

We
have already established as much evidence as we can that 'proves' that
Shepard is either hallucinating/dreaming just prior to/immediately after
he runs into Harbinger's beam/Conduit. The hallucination/dream sequence
has been quite well fleshed out, with a lot of compelling environmental
evidence to support it (again, please see page 1 for further analysis).
I am going to use this particular vehicle of suspension of disbelief to
propose that BioWare's intention during this sequence is to flag the
player with as many markers as they can: This current reality playing
before
your eyes (the Citadel, the Catalyst, TIM, Anderson) is a reflection of
Shepard. It is the product of his/her mind. The meeting with the
Catalyst may or may not be rooted in reality; they may meet in some
metalphysical dimension, or Shepard may just hallucinate the entire
thing. Either way, this theory would argue that it essentially doesn't 
matter, because what truly matters is the role of the player in this
sequence. Your role. The scene is set in a way that urges the player to
become aware of things just not being right, of being a place that
mirrors (literally) Shepard's experiences throughout the game. The
reality presented on the Citadel is an amalgamation of archetypes of
every thing Shepard has seen in the series, which this theory challenges
the player to understand as being a
direct prompt from BioWare to
understand that what is truly happening during this scene is all within
Shepard's mind. His/her reality. Under her/his control.

Understanding that the reality on the Citadel as being a cerebral concoction that is entirely of Shepard's creation is
important
when we arrive upon the Crucible. It becomes a vital understanding when
we are faced with these three, seemingly bizarre and unexpected choices
that the Catalyst gives us. This theory submits that BioWare is asking
the player to actively question EVERYTHING that happens once Shepard
runs into Harbinger's beam. The cost of not
questioning, or making the right choice even if you do?

Real-time player indoctrination. Shepard's literal death.

Think
about it carefully. We arrive on the Crucible, and are faced with an
archetype of manipulation, the Catalyst. Taking the form of a child that
has come to represent everything that is horrendous about the Reapers
to Shepard, the Catalyst/Harbinger provides Shepard with three strange
and disorienting choices. He first presents Shepard with the option of
Destroy, making swift and empty assertations about how it is the wrong
choice because it would kill all synthetic life and Shepard
herself/himself. At its surface, this seems like the renegade/chaos
option, and is even insidiously portrayed in Renegade Red, a direct nod
to the Player himself/herself. Directly appealing to your experiences
with how the game works. He then goes on at great length about the
Control and Synthesis options, portraying Control as the blue
paragon/order option. Again, directly appealing to the Player. He argues
that
Control is the best option, implies that Shepard is the new Catalyst,
and leaves us to contemplate the possibility that we could use it to try
and save the people we love; after all, we are Shepard, and we would
never become like TIM.

Synthesis is the last option explored, and
it is portrayed as a compromise or as being the Brave New Hope for the
galaxy. I have a suspicion that Synthesis may actually  be the 'perfect'
choice, but thatis for another theory. (If you're curious, read
about the tech-singularity lore within the game, and research humes
spork's posts about the singularity within this thread.) Either way,
Synthesis smacks of strangeness because it seems so inherently
Reaper-oriented. As though it were servicing the Reapers' philosophy
more strongly than the other two options.

This moment, when you
are standing there, agonizing over your choice? This is your
indoctrination moment. This is where, it could be (fantastically and
insanely) argued that this is the moment when indoctrination and all of
its insidious power becomes as real as it possibly CAN be to the Player.
Think about it! We stand there. We
agonize. We freak out about the
ridiculous choices, and we wonder (like Shepard would) why we just can't
ARUGE with the Catalyst (like Shepard would). And then, as this reality
seems to be the only way forward (much like how indoctrination presents
a version of reality to the indoctrinated that he/she sees as being the
ONLY REAL OPTION -- echoes of TIM, Kai Leng, Saren here), we begin to
accept it. Tremulously, we start to make our choice.

If you
choose Control, then you, the player -- the one who moves through the
game though Shepard's eyes; every choice s/he has ever made in the game
has been directly because of you -- have been indoctrinated. It may
have
been because you thought you could save your crew, your LI, or that you
really could gain perfect Control over the Reapers because you are
Shepard. Regardless, you have been duped. Indoctrinated by the game.
Your slow exposure to the Reapers in 2007 culminates to this final choice -- complete and free player agency and determination.

If
you choose Synthesis, you face a fate similar to that of Control. It's
debatable to me at this point as to whether or not you have chosen to
fulfill the Reapers' purpose, but indoctrination is still a heavy
possibility with this one. The only reason that I state this with any
certainty is because, like the ending we see with Control, Shepard is
dead at the final credits.

If you choose Destroy, then the Player
Indoctrination Theory submits that this is you, the player, deciding
whether or not Shepard overcomes the indoctrination attempt being rained
upon him/her by Harbinger/the Catalyst. If you decide this option, and
if you have enough EMS to ensure that Shepard has enough real-world time
to get through the indoctrination attempt/hallucination -- Shepard
lives. We see him/her breathing in the rubble of London streets at the
end of the game. Shepard has defied indoctrination. You, yourself, have
defied indoctrination.

Does this theory make sense? Maybe not.
When we consider BioWare's real-world motivations and risks (profit,
losing a large fanbase over the disgusting wretchedness of the endings
as they currently exist), then the theory is hard to support. But if,
for just one moment, we can let ourselves believe that BioWare may just
have lived up to their celebrated philiosophy of Player Choice and
Player Acutalization, then this theory becomes awe-inspiring. Is it
possible? Could BioWare have sacrificed the potential for safe profits
in order to bring the most insane and beautiful gaming experience of all
time to its fans? The most unprecedented example of player immersion of
our times? Would BioWare have truly allowed the risk for profit and
angering a serious amount of their fan population in pure deference to
the story, and its lore?

It may explain BioWare's silence on the
matter, until "more people have played the game", or until all regions
have the game. It may explain Jess M.'s twitter about fans "reacting
before having all of the facts". It may.... just may explain these super
sh*tty endings in a way that would make BioWare the God of RPGs.

Is it likely? No. Am I reaching, insanely? Yes.

But is it possible?

Yes.


ceruleancrescent wrote:


Okay so I just noticed something, and I don't know if it's been pointed
out yet, so if it has, I'm sorry I don't remember reading it on this
thread.

Anyways, during the god child scene this is what we see



and this is what we seen when the Crucible is being connected to the Citadel



the

red circle is the connecting point of the Crucible, as the connected
end is a spherical shape, not flat, as seen in the second picture with
the red circle. The green circle is the Citadel connecting point to the
Crucible (ignore the yellow circle in the second picture).

Seeing
that, we can see that the part that  Shepard is standing on is
definately part of the Citadel...so why is there the human numbers and
letters such as 1M1 on structures in the citadel, a site we've never
seen before?



Also looking at the structures that are used for Control (blue) and Destroy (red) are already on the Citadel



They
appear not to be directly connected to the Crucible, as it looks like
the Crucible and the Citadel are connected only by the blue stream of
light (purple circle). The options to control or destroy were
implimented on the citadel, and not made through the Crucible.

So
the reapers, that created the citadel so many years ago, foresaw that
over the many cycles, organics would be able to design and eventually
create a weapon that would be capable of destroying them? Why would they
create that possibility? Also, since the god child said that Shepard
was "the first organic" there, it doesn't seem as if one of the species
in the many cycles created it themselves, especially since the keepers
would probably change it.

Just a thought. 

EDIT: It just
seems more dream/hallucination like to me, as if Shepard's mind is
trying to make sense of things and not very well. Or it is an extreme
oversight...IDK 


AlphaDormante wrote:

I
just noticed this right now...don't know if anyone's mentioned this
already or if it's been explained, but I thought I'd bring it up.

So you know that oddly colorful rubble that's littered around the Makos near the beam?



Yeah, that crap looks weird. PC, I'm ashamed of you and those textures.

...hey, wait a minute.



Are those BODIES?

Yes.
As you can clearly see, there are faces, torsos, and legs in that pile
of low-res polygons. Now, why it's so low-res I don't know; that might
really be an issue with my computer. But I've never had this level of
terrible with any other texture in the game...and you have to admit,
seeing it so blurry and awful-looking lends it a very eerie quality.

Besides
that, why are there SO MANY? There were absolutely not that many people
running for the beam. And even if there were, how did they all end up
in neat little piles off to the sides? And, most importantly...

Take a closer look at the bodies pink and purple circles. Look familiar?





...how about now?



Rifneno wrote...

I know the subject of the eyes has been brought up a lot.  But I've talked to quite a few people who don't see it, or
don't
think they're really what we think they are.  So I got some screenshots
and when necessary magnified them so you can see them better.


That's
the Illusive Man's eye in ME2. Note the pattern: an inner circle, an
outer circle, and two orb shapes on the bottom left and right.


This
is Saren's eye in ME1 right before he ragequits existence. It's
different, but similar in a way. A large glowing center, an inner ring, a
much smaller outer ring, and some wavy designs coming out of them.


This
is Shepard's eye right after his face turned black in the control
ending. This is the exact same pattern as the Illusive Man's. The only
difference is the color. Which is similar to Saren's. I'll also note
that the rest of the scene he seemed to be in immense pain as he's
gripping the handles. After he turns like this, he simply looks deadpan
and emotionless.


This
is Shepard's eye during the synthesis ending. He's further from the
camera and a lot of the time it's distorted by the green pulses, but
this is still a clear enough shot to tell, without a doubt, that he has
the same eyes here as in control.

Hopefully this helps convince
someone that doesn't believe the eye evidence, which I personally
consider to be the strongest evidence of the indoctrination theory.


Also,
not sure who put this together, but I believe it was Nighthunteer. The
area where you talk to the godchild and the Conduit approach look
remarkably similar:







Also, gonna add some videos that talk about hallucination/indoctrination


Excellent 20 minute explanation video.

Short 3 minute explanation video

"Mass Effect 3 Ending Mysteries" video

____Byne

Let the old speculations begin.

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 décembre 2012 - 07:20 .

[paxxton]

Andromidius wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

He created the theory? Didn't know that. 

I think he'll be the first one to say he didn't, but he was there since the beginning and was the one who's made all the 'official' threads.

Who are you talking about? What theory?

Byne, this theory.

Oh.  Well, I think IT is a collaborative theory.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 décembre 2012 - 07:23 .

[BansheeOwnage]

masster blaster wrote...

Holy S***. I found a good renegade option for the Conversation with TIM, on Thessia, and Cronus station, and the Citadel.



okay this sums up everything I was trying to say about Renegade Shepard.

Okay on Thessia Tim says " They are just trying to Control US. Think about it. If they wanted all organic life Destroyed, they could do it..."
then TIM says " I know them Shepard. I know how they think."

Well of course you do your Indoctrinated. That's why you can think like they do.

Then my personal favorite Shepard: " The Reapers have it right. Your Indoctrinated.Your doing just what they want."

Then TIM says: "And I can say the same to you. Wasting your time, on a war that can not be won."

But then Shepard says " At LEAST I am fighting."

dam makes you wonder if Destroy you are still fighting.

But then TIM says " Never question my ability to fight. I've been fighting the Reapers longer than you can imagine."

Oh so he has been fighting the Reapers, but you only can now that if you read the comic book, about how TIM got his eyes, and Cerberus stated.
But then TIM says later " Shepard there are choices coming that you're not equipped to make."

major foreshadowing, and Equipped to make, but what does he mean equipped to make?

But then Shepard says " At least I'll be making them as a human being, your just some Reaper puppet."

okay next is Cronus station okay nothing major here, but Shepard asked TIM, about how many did you kill to get to where you are at, but TIM says " You wouldn't listen to me"


Okay this is the last Conversation we have with TIM, he tells Shepard that He needs Shepard to believe, but for what, and then later Shepard tells TIM that that the power has clouded him, and the TIM tells SHEPARD " Are YOU going to Control the Reapers." That's right.He tells Shepard are you going to Control the Reapers. Then TIM goes rage quite when Shepard tells Tim you are weak, and selfish, but it's funny because TIM says " I am the Pinnacle of our species

Harbinger "we are the principle of Evolution."

I did this because Renegade Shepard always get's on TIMs bad side, and TIM revels much more information, unlike Paragon Shepard. So the difference is that Renegade Shepard shows that TIM is Indoctrinated, and Shepard might be going under Indoctrination. But Paragon Shepard always questions if you can does hits, then help me. But renegade Shepard is like if you can do it, then do it.

I think that's why Bioware asked have you played through ALL possible out comes yet, since renegade revels much more about the endings, but Paragon is always trying to get Tim on his/her side, but without questioning, that TIM is Indoctrinated.

Edit:Please if you have something to say say it please.
I worked about an hour on this so please let me know if you like it, or not.

Some good quotes there MB.

[masster blaster]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Holy S***. I found a good renegade option for the Conversation with TIM, on Thessia, and Cronus station, and the Citadel.



okay this sums up everything I was trying to say about Renegade Shepard.

Okay on Thessia Tim says " They are just trying to Control US. Think about it. If they wanted all organic life Destroyed, they could do it..."
then TIM says " I know them Shepard. I know how they think."

Well of course you do your Indoctrinated. That's why you can think like they do.

Then my personal favorite Shepard: " The Reapers have it right. Your Indoctrinated.Your doing just what they want."

Then TIM says: "And I can say the same to you. Wasting your time, on a war that can not be won."

But then Shepard says " At LEAST I am fighting."

dam makes you wonder if Destroy you are still fighting.

But then TIM says " Never question my ability to fight. I've been fighting the Reapers longer than you can imagine."

Oh so he has been fighting the Reapers, but you only can now that if you read the comic book, about how TIM got his eyes, and Cerberus stated.
But then TIM says later " Shepard there are choices coming that you're not equipped to make."

major foreshadowing, and Equipped to make, but what does he mean equipped to make?

But then Shepard says " At least I'll be making them as a human being, your just some Reaper puppet."

okay next is Cronus station okay nothing major here, but Shepard asked TIM, about how many did you kill to get to where you are at, but TIM says " You wouldn't listen to me"


Okay this is the last Conversation we have with TIM, he tells Shepard that He needs Shepard to believe, but for what, and then later Shepard tells TIM that that the power has clouded him, and the TIM tells SHEPARD " Are YOU going to Control the Reapers." That's right.He tells Shepard are you going to Control the Reapers. Then TIM goes rage quite when Shepard tells Tim you are weak, and selfish, but it's funny because TIM says " I am the Pinnacle of our species

Harbinger "we are the principle of Evolution."

I did this because Renegade Shepard always get's on TIMs bad side, and TIM revels much more information, unlike Paragon Shepard. So the difference is that Renegade Shepard shows that TIM is Indoctrinated, and Shepard might be going under Indoctrination. But Paragon Shepard always questions if you can does hits, then help me. But renegade Shepard is like if you can do it, then do it.

I think that's why Bioware asked have you played through ALL possible out comes yet, since renegade revels much more about the endings, but Paragon is always trying to get Tim on his/her side, but without questioning, that TIM is Indoctrinated.

Edit:Please if you have something to say say it please.
I worked about an hour on this so please let me know if you like it, or not.

Some good quotes there MB.

Thank you.


TOP!

Modifié par masster blaster, 30 décembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

He created the theory? Didn't know that. 

I think he'll be the first one to say he didn't, but he was there since the beginning and was the one who's made all the 'official' threads.

Did you just respond to a question on page one?