80611 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

They don't gain anything from it, Masster. They're dead. The only ones to gain anything from it are organics and synthetics not yet created.

Modifié par estebanus, 08 août 2012 - 10:05 .

[lex0r11]

Hey guys!

Just checking up on you, don't have much time.
Anything new? Anything needed?

Have some space magic dust!

Modifié par lex0r11, 08 août 2012 - 10:06 .

[TJBartlemus]

estebanus wrote...

*facepalm*

So now you're suddenly invoking the IT? That's complete bullsh*t right there. You were just arguing from a literal fashion, now you aren't suddenly?!

Peace estebanus. Peace. Anger isn't going to solve anything.

Masster, really. Hanar has a point. If you don't agree then that's your choice but don't try to force it. Explain your point and be done with it. 

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

[estebanus]

lex0r11 wrote...

Hey guys!

Just checking up on you, don't have much time.
Anything new? Anything needed?

Have some space magic dust!

Good to see you again, Lex0r.

We've had a few trolls in here, I gave up on IT (don't remember if you were there or not, sorry), and right now, Masster Blaster is arguing with the literalist heretic-hanar.

[Arian Dynas]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There appears to be the usual circular logic of 'It must be bad writing cos Bioware are bad writers. I know they're bad writers because of the ending.' Always annoys me.

There is nothing circular about that. If a writer is bad, his writing is going to be bad. A bad writer can be recognized by his bad writing. There is nothing circular about that.

Really?!? <_< WTF? If you are trying to make a point don't troll. If you aren't trying to make points and intentionally troll then I will ask you nicely to leave. 

Oh. So by that logic, since Hitler loved dogs, and Hitler was an evil person, all dogs are evil?

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Why don"t you go back to ME1, and ME2 why everyone hates Cerberus, well not everyone, but almost everyone.

The fact that everyone hates Cerberus in ME1 and ME2 does not prove any of your points.

Why did Tali hate Cerberus because they attacked the Quariens ship that's why. Why is TIM doing this " For Humanuty" BS I can say I killed millions of people to declare my love for some girl.

And that still doesn't prove any of your previous-made points.

Are you sure well look at it in not humanity way, Cerberus is a Terroist group, that strikes alien political leaders that threaten humanity, more like threating the Reapers. They have been casuing pain to so many familys that did not ask for this, but Cerberus doesn"t care about alieans, until the collectors came and Started to target human colonies. And I am just saying they were helping the Reapers in sercret, but were not aware of it.

[Arian Dynas]

TSA_383 wrote...

By the by, I'm going to have to take leave of these forums for a bit.
I've got a lot of stuff to do and I feel like I'm getting less intelligent every time I try to read a thread like this one:

http://social.biowar.../index/13566905

Then stay here, with us, forever and ever and ever /creepy

[estebanus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

Then again, a paragon knows that the right choice isn't always the easy one.

[Humakt83]

According to post in HTL-forums, there were couple lines of dialogue added to the third nightmare in EC, any idea what those were? 

lex0r11 wrote...

Hey guys!

Just checking up on you, don't have much time.
Anything new? Anything needed?

Have some space magic dust!

Apparently people are so bored that they are arguing for literalist POV in this thread. 

Modifié par Humakt83, 08 août 2012 - 10:12 .

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

It's crule to bainwash the galaxy about the Reapers in Synthesis, and to let the Reapers teach us their info on the past cycles they harvested, to make more of them.

And hey they were willing to die, and everyone knew that inorder to stop the Reapers they were going to have to give up their lives to make sure nobody EVER has to live the nightmer of the Reapers ever again.

"We will sacrifec, and we will fight for the lost."

Modifié par masster blaster, 08 août 2012 - 10:12 .

[byne]

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

It's crule to bainwash the galaxy about the Reapers in Synthesis, and to let the Reapers teach us their info on the past cycles they harvested, to make more of them.

And hey they were willing to die, and everyone knew that inorder to stop the Reapers they were going to have to give up their lives to make sure nobody EVER has to live the nightmer of the Reapers ever again.

Masster, I agree that they were willing to die, but saying they gained anything by dying is just silly.

They didnt gain anything.

They're dead.

Let it go.

[The Heretic of Time]

byne wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Keep telling that to yourself, I'm sure that if you believe in the IT hard enough it will make that haunting feeling of guilt (knowning that you just destroyed an entire allied race and one of your best friends) go away eventually.

If the literal endings are true, I feel no guilt.

EDI and the geth went into this fight knowing what the stakes were. There are losses in war. 

I came into this war to destroy the Reapers. Thats what I'm going to do.

Its like the geth prime in London says: 'There will be no further compromise with the Old Machines.'

There is a big fat gab between "cormpromise with the Old Machines" and wiping out their entire race, just saying.

I mean sure, if you're a ruthless bastard that is going to complete his mission to the letter no matter what the cost, than go for it, press that destroy button. My Renegade Shepard did the same. He also chose Destroy.

I have to add though, that in my Renegade playthrough, the geth were already destroyed on rannoch, so pressing that destroy button ment that only EDI was going to be sacrificed in order to destroy the reapers. My Renegade Shepard saw that as a fair trade and he was sure EDI would have agreed. So he pressed the big fat red Destroy the Reapers button and completed his mission.

[Arian Dynas]

StElmo wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

So guys, guys guys, anyone here still hanging out for DLC that takes into account IT? if not, are you hoping ME4 will just nulify the ME3 ending with something like IT?

Heck I would take either, but so far you guys are all clutching at straws, so what keeps you so motivated???

Because to us we are not grasping at straws. We had played through and ending that made us angry, but above all which made us confused. It left questions, questions far too deep running to brush of with lazy writing.

So we dug into the game and started piercing together the strange stuff, the kid, the dreams, the ending and slowly a picture started to take form, a possibility buried in the data.

And as more people joined the idea we dug through every part of the games finding what could support us, checking might disprove our idea and now standing here we truly feel we have a strong case.

I dont mind if people dont share our views, but I do mind it when people complain (not saying you are) about us trying to make sense of a ending universally seen as bad. We pierced together a theory that makes the ending not only tolerable, but a masterpiece and everything surppoting it comes from the games and the developers, it is not simply fan fiction.

I hope you have checked out some of the things linked on the first page as they cover alot of the things which make this theory so clear to us.

I love IT, dude, I'd still love for it to be true. But I just don't give a rats crap until I see something that is made by BioWare that confirms it, be it a cutscene that has shepard waking up and killing harbinger with a rocket launcher and saving the galaxy, or a whole new Ending DLC, or ME4. I want to SEEEEEEEEE the end, not speculate it.

I expect there to be a DLC which, while maybe it doesn't straight out say "Indoctrination" makes it all but obvious.

I'm not expecting another extended cut, I'm expecting The Arrival, featuring Indoctrination. A bridge to ME4

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

It's crule to bainwash the galaxy about the Reapers in Synthesis, and to let the Reapers teach us their info on the past cycles they harvested, to make more of them.

And hey they were willing to die, and everyone knew that inorder to stop the Reapers they were going to have to give up their lives to make sure nobody EVER has to live the nightmer of the Reapers ever again.

Masster, I agree that they were willing to die, but saying they gained anything by dying is just silly.

They didnt gain anything.

They're dead.

Let it go.

Fine I will, but they were willing to give up their lives if need be, and for that I say they have earned a future, for the next generation, and so on.

[The Heretic of Time]

estebanus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

Then again, a paragon knows that the right choice isn't always the easy one.

Depending on what you define as the "right" choice. That's up for debate of course. I mean I'm sure that as a Renegade player I have a different view about what is the "right" choice than you do as a Paragon player. And I can say that a Renegade also knows that the right choice isn't always the easy one. A Renegade knows this like no other.

[lex0r11]

I see everything seems to be under control.

[byne]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

byne wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Keep telling that to yourself, I'm sure that if you believe in the IT hard enough it will make that haunting feeling of guilt (knowning that you just destroyed an entire allied race and one of your best friends) go away eventually.

If the literal endings are true, I feel no guilt.

EDI and the geth went into this fight knowing what the stakes were. There are losses in war. 

I came into this war to destroy the Reapers. Thats what I'm going to do.

Its like the geth prime in London says: 'There will be no further compromise with the Old Machines.'

There is a big fat gab between "cormpromise with the Old Machines" and wiping out their entire race, just saying.

I mean sure, if you're a ruthless bastard that is going to complete his mission to the letter no matter what the cost, than go for it, press that destroy button. My Renegade Shepard did the same. He also chose Destroy.

I have to add though, that in my Renegade playthrough, the geth were already destroyed on rannoch, so pressing that destroy button ment that only EDI was going to be sacrificed in order to destroy the reapers. My Renegade Shepard saw that as a fair trade and he was sure EDI would have agreed. So he pressed the big fat red Destroy the Reapers button and completed his mission.

I press destroy knowing that the Reapers are gone forever.

While the EC slideshows seem to show that the Reapers dont betray organics, and suddenly become our BFFs, my Shepard doesnt know that.

She just knows that if she shoots that tube, no one ever has to worry about the Reapers again.

She'll shoot the tube every time.

[iggy1eco]

I've put some things together and wanted to make it simple, but just now remembered and had the patience to actually come to the forum and post this. I see this is already at Mark III which is amazing how this is talked about. And thanks byne for keeping at it haha So I'll post here my "rant" about synthesis. Nothing new problably or maybe there is, but still, I'll express. Sorry about english, not my native language.

Oh, and it may have some novel stuff, [SPOILER ALERT] 

Synthesis still bugging me. Could accept Destroy and Control because it makes sense in terms of what the plot worked with.

Going back to Mass Effect 2: Legion's loyalty mission provides two options: One to rewrite and another destroy. This would happen thanks to a massive magneic pulse that would reach the heretics and either rewrite them and destroy them. So, it's the type of pulse that actually exists at this time already even if it's just at a very small scale.

This pulse, or this type of tech the geth possess is very similar to what the crucible can do, but the Crucible have two differences:

    - It affects the whole galaxy or at least a large scale.
    - It can also contain a mix of matter stream, therefore it will not only send some kind of programming to override the Reapers or destroy their cores, but also bring actual matter with it.


The Destroy ending, in my opinion, it's the right ending however Mass Effect it's known for having little things considered cannon, aside from Udina that it's meant to be the political mind and not Anderson.
Simply makes sense. It's Shepard's objective since the very beginning, it's what everyone wants, and that's what people have been dying for.

The Control ending (hypothetically speaking) also makes sense, no matter if it's pure indoctrination or pure control. The electromagnetic pulse could rewrite the consensus of the Reapers the same way it was done with the geth, and since it's possible to make a matter stream, it would be also possible to destroy Shepard's matter while keeping his/her thoughts intact somewhere in the Crucible's/Citadel core programming.

Synthesis ending, that's where my head just blows up. Hypothetically makes sense since the pulse can stream matter, but still bothers me. First this would tell us that the original designers of the Crucible (but also Reaper victims) intended to merge themselves with synthetics. Maybe to have an edge over the Reapers in technological terms and warfight resilience. But still, how can this just pop-up in organics? So perfect. How can someone that just been merged with green synthetics and have glowing eyes act so normal, so ok with it? Like another day at the bach?
Plus, this is what buggers me most: even if the Crucible is meant for instantaneous effects, synthesis could also be possible if someone chooses the Control option. The Reapers are controled, their information is now in the possession of organics, so they could reach this evolutionary process in a matter of years thanks to the already existing technology and/or knowledge.

Not forgeting Shepard's objective is destoying the Reapers, and you would be very renegade if you'd choose otherwise. So, why would Destroying the Reapers be now at the ending, after all we've been though, a Renegade option? If I was a Reaper or was Indoctinated, this option would make perfect sense and I would feel my head was as clear as pure water. But after all we've been through, all the story we've seen, it's obvious this just isn't right. Something is out of place here.


If you read the novels, then you know who the Illusive Man is, his past, and also know that he had contact with Reaper devices (even if he didn't know what it was at the time). After the slightest contact, he started to "feel" the presence of other devices. Guess what, Saren did too and they both encountered each other and various situations, because Saren could also "feel" the presence of these devices that turned out to have the hability to turn turians into husks. Conscient but indoctrinated husks. These devices were destroyed from orbit with few people knowing about it, but this was enough motive for the Illusive Man to create Cereberus. Since the very begining of Cereberus, he studied indoctrination while Shepard was still playing with his first gun or his firs water gun (well...problably high school or military university) (well...he was simply ignorant enough) .He commited devious things, and sent reaper creatures that could "infect" other organics with a simple touch to Omega. The infected would eventually turn into reapers themselves with the same purpose: infection. It was kind of like a Zombie Reaper technology. These reaper forms were called adjutants and weren't on the game because of some tech problems I believe. These reapers were also responsible for the attack on Omega, creating a destraction
to make Aria flee. The reason it was attacked was because Kai Leng killed Aria's daughter, which turned into a big mess and alliance between her and the Illusive Man broke.

He was up to something with all that Collector crap, and I believe the Collectors where dispendable even if they served a very hostile, smart and indirect porpuse.
The Reapers could have been fooled many times, but one thing they did good was adapting. And so did the organics. So this was more of a psych war so it makes sense the last battle not being fough against a badass altered Illusive Man, but fought in a psychological level. There's motive for all the chat and messed up choices
and sequences to lead to the right path.

We have enough proof that while the Reapers were at sleep, the Illusive Man was the perfect puppet to weaken everything else and Shepard was the perfect match to counter attack.

If you're one to go deeper, then you can notice the main themes of ME are free will and the "wheel of life". But I won't go there. I find it unecessary and I think it could be a little more simple. But I'll let you think nonetheless.

Also, before Saren being Indoctrinated, the Alliance was studying an anctient artifact by a scientist that became indoctrinated, calling the artifact's presence in his head Sovereing. Thanks to the Alliance discovery, the Reapers decided that these humans were worthy of attention so humanity is the epicenter of everything and can be blamed for indoctrinating Saren. But we know enough that Saren always had this special lust for things that were new: or did he? Was a perfect puppet like IM maybe. This went a bit out of the theme, was brainstorming, but I also want to tell with this that there are key facts that should or could be included in the game for a better understanding of everyones story and capabilities, and not just mentioned vaguely in the games.

So, I still think both Control and Synthesis aren't quite right in the head, but Control is more right than Synthesis no doubt. I'm pretty sure there is Indoctrination at some point and ends at some point, and comes back at some point and so on, otherwise this is just a plain mess. I'm just enjoying MP now and a female Shepard

 

so I moved on with this, but like everyone here I actually enjoy thinking about this =p plus, the narrative of ME to me is like reading a book.

Cheers!

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I will, but they were willing to give up their lives if need be, and for that I say they have earned a future, for the next generation, and so on.

So you say they have earned a future... but they didn't get a future, because you just blew them up. Logic. 

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

Then again, a paragon knows that the right choice isn't always the easy one.

Depending on what you define as the "right" choice. That's up for debate of course. I mean I'm sure that as a Renegade player I have a different view about what is the "right" choice than you do as a Paragon player. And I can say that a Renegade also knows that the right choice isn't always the easy one. A Renegade knows this like no other.

But you gain a future with out the Reapers, would you rather have the Reapers alive in Synthesis, and have everyone live in fear, or forget what the Reapers did. They are living in a fansicy world were everything is perfect. PERFECT.

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Odplata pride wrote...

Yes it is quiet similar soo MP events are closer and closer to End of SP, what will be at the End...  
 

New  END DLC?

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering about, too. How are they going to finish up the operations if those are not exactly negligible reasons for people to play (i.e. spend money on packs)?

The best solution for that I think comes from the first(?) IT thread (how could it be any different): take back the galaxy. DLC that will concentrate on major planets like Palivan, Thessia etc.
But that, of course, should happen after the ending, i.e. after London, since the description of Operation Olympus even more proved that they really are progressing along the SP story line; they won't just stop right before the Cronos assault or end the events after London happened.

Which of course, cannot happen with the endings as is.

[TJBartlemus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There appears to be the usual circular logic of 'It must be bad writing cos Bioware are bad writers. I know they're bad writers because of the ending.' Always annoys me.

There is nothing circular about that. If a writer is bad, his writing is going to be bad. A bad writer can be recognized by his bad writing. There is nothing circular about that.

Really?!? <_< WTF? If you are trying to make a logical point don't troll. If you aren't trying to make points and are intentionally trolling then I will ask you nicely to leave. 

Oh. So by that logic, since Hitler loved dogs, and Hitler was an evil person, all dogs are evil?

Wait who's logic. Mine or his?  If it's mine, I just noticed some grammar errors. Fixed in bold. 

[estebanus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Fine I won't use IT, and still EDI, and the Geth gain something. They leared the meaning of emotion, and got to show this cycle that not all Syntheics are bad. What they gain, is a future that will allow this cycle to learn about the past cycles mistakes.

The gained all that before you chose to press the destroy button, not because you pressed the destroy button.

In fact, don't you think it's kinda cruel? Both the geth and EDI finally learned what it is like to be alive, and the geth finally want to coöperate with organics for the first time in 400 years, and you just blew them up.

Man, that is cruel! If I were a Paragon I'd really feel sorry for the geth and EDI. That's a damn cruel fate man!

Then again, a paragon knows that the right choice isn't always the easy one.

Depending on what you define as the "right" choice. That's up for debate of course. I mean I'm sure that as a Renegade player I have a different view about what is the "right" choice than you do as a Paragon player. And I can say that a Renegade also knows that the right choice isn't always the easy one. A Renegade knows this like no other.

Yup. There is no right ending. The player has to decide what ending fits his Shepard best.

[Rifneno]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I love how the model used for the thing that generates that electrical current is called "end_choice_badA_01"

Wait, what?

Sadly, destroy and sin-thesis don't have telling names because they're recycled assets. The control one is new.