80611 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

Dude, stay! =)

Here, this will cheer you up:

[umadcommander]

 

[Kabraxal]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Norlond wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Norlond wrote...

@Banshee: My thoughts: Worse than Refuse, Shep unwilling to resist his indoctrinated part, leading to rapid indoctrination, leading to decay of mind, leading to uselessness for the Reapers -> they kill him

Makes sense. Watch it again, but see if you can pay close attention to the sounds.

Reaper growl everytime TIM starts speaking? Loud whispering just before 2nd ReneInterrupt? Infrasound I can't hear but is present in the audiofiles?

Correct! (Well I don't know if there is infrasound). But here is what else I noticed:
1. The DUN DUN drumbeat from the choice plays when he shoots Anderson.

2. The ascending tone just before the last interrupt is the same one used when about to exit the dreams.

3. You don't see Shepard die. Very dreamlike!!! Just like how you can't see you feet while walking through the citadel. And in dreams.

4. After shaking his head, TIM does not go for the control panel. In fact, the camera emphasizes that he doesn't...

What are your thoughts?

The more you see just... off about the ending... the more you've got to wonder if Bioware was just dumb lucky it all perfectly fit into the IT.  At least, at somepoint that they can claim all the **** ups were intentional and not just a case of ****** poor writing.  We'll never know.  But it does look like there is so much that is just too nicely aligned with indoctrination... whispers, sounds, dreams... all matching the lore previously set up.  And all the little inconstincies are easily just part of the real Shepard's mind trying to fight through it and come out intact.

Also... a recent playthrough has got me really wondering:  is the Crucible itself either part of the indoctrination plan or a red herring designed by the Reapers to distract any cycles that actually pose a threat to them?  You have the convenient discovery of a game changer then you have constant quick improvements to the technology as its built in an extremely short time frame all while the vast spy network of Cerberus/Reapers conveniently miss only this one thing that Shepard is a part of and never attack or delay the creation of it.  THen it appears in teh final battle and it's practically allowed to dock with no hassle.  O and of course it just happens to provide "new" solutions to distract from fighting and destroying the reapers... two solutions that had both been championed by indocrinated antagonists.  

The more I look into this game, the more it just does seem to be an elaborate set up to fool the player... not Shepard, but the player... into making a choice that they had been resisting from day one.  So instead of fighting the Reapers, you embrace them and lose everything you ever were.  It's all elegant and amazing if that is actually a planned outcome... however, it just seems so much more plausible Bioware just royally screwed up and literally stumbled into a theory because they simply didn't have the competence to write a good ending... I just really hope they epically trolled everyone and really are smarter than many fans gave them credit for.

[Andromidius]

BleedingUranium wrote...

I don't see any reason to say they're descendants from a writing perspective, other than to create doubt about what they're saying.

Indeed.  They could have just said "We are the Leviathans, the last of our kind."

Heck, they didn't even mention they were the last.  Which hints there are more out there, hiding somewhere.  The fact you only see one most of the time suggests that as well, you only see two more after you 'convince' them to help you.

Of course, people would point at 'bad writing' dialogue.  Like the Architect in The Matrix Reloaded.  What he's saying is verbous and confusing, but it makes perfect sense - its just designed to overwhelm whoever is listening to it into thinking something else is going on.  Hense why the responce "bull****" rocks him into seeing how things are different this time.  And also that the two choices given are now meaningless, because Neo will pick the option the Architect doesn't want him to for the first time since the 'cycles' began.

Woh.  You know the Matrix is so similar to Mass Effect its not even funny.

[BansheeOwnage]

magnetite wrote...

I've actually been doing some non-Mass Effect related stuff (Torchlight 2), and my head is a bit clearer.

Staying too much, I kind of forget about all the other stuff I'm supposed to do. Like cleaning my house and such.

Welcome back Mag.

[Norlond]

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Correct! (Well I don't know if there is infrasound). But here is what else I noticed:
1. The DUN DUN drumbeat from the choice plays when he shoots Anderson.

2. The ascending tone just before the last interrupt is the same one used when about to exit the dreams.

3. You don't see Shepard die. Very dreamlike!!! Just like how you can't see you feet while walking through the citadel. And in dreams.

4. After shaking his head, TIM does not go for the control panel. In fact, the camera emphasizes that he doesn't...

What are your thoughts?

1. Maybe to show that TIM shooting Anderson affects your EMS -> your choices -> Sheps chance of survival?

2. Alerting Shep that he has to take action, that he will not wake up if he just watches?

3. Yes

4. All the sudden he's not very eager to control the Reapers, is he? What could that POSSIBLY mean... :innocent:

That are the first thoughts that came to mind, maybe I'll have some more ideas later

[masster blaster]

Wait what about IT comfirmed. Is this a joke?

[umadcommander]

masster blaster wrote...

Wait what about IT comfirmed. Is this a joke?

does this prove IT?

[Andromidius]

Kabraxal wrote...

Also... a recent playthrough has got me really wondering:  is the Crucible itself either part of the indoctrination plan or a red herring designed by the Reapers to distract any cycles that actually pose a threat to them? 

It can be either, or both.  Regardless of its function, it isn't designed to kill Reapers.  Not at all.  Its a waste of resources for the Victory Alliance to build.  Destroy that, conquer Shepard, and all resistance in the Galaxy is gone.

Genius plan.  Even if its a dud.  Which it clearly isn't - its just a huge battery designed to power the Citadel - to do whatever the Reapers want with it.  Create a relay point into Dark Space, probably.

[BansheeOwnage]

Kabraxal wrote...
The more I look into this game, the more it just does seem to be an elaborate set up to fool the player... not Shepard, but the player... into making a choice that they had been resisting from day one.  So instead of fighting the Reapers, you embrace them and lose everything you ever were.  It's all elegant and amazing if that is actually a planned outcome... however, it just seems so much more plausible Bioware just royally screwed up and literally stumbled into a theory because they simply didn't have the competence to write a good ending... I just really hope they epically trolled everyone and really are smarter than many fans gave them credit for.

We all do. There are simply too many coincidences for IT to be wrong on all levels.

[Red Panda]

masster blaster wrote...

Wait what about IT comfirmed. Is this a joke?

Quoting for answer as well.

Is it a joke?

[Andromidius]

umadcommander wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Wait what about IT comfirmed. Is this a joke?

does this prove IT?

Its a meme, don't take it too seriously.  It'll get confirmed when Bioware want to confirm it.  Either in the final DLC, or never.

Why spoil the suprise?

[GethPrimeMKII]

Congradulations on page 3000+. I just got a brand new hd head set to go with my skyrim game. Does anyone here have ME3 on PS3? I'd like to play some matches sometime in between skyrim.

[Norlond]

OperatingWookie wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Wait what about IT comfirmed. Is this a joke?

Quoting for answer as well.

Is it a joke?

No it's not a joke, coolios dream visions are always right, PARTY EVERYONE!





that was sarcasm: yes, it was a joke, the running gag around here

[BansheeOwnage]

Norlond wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Correct! (Well I don't know if there is infrasound). But here is what else I noticed:
1. The DUN DUN drumbeat from the choice plays when he shoots Anderson.

2. The ascending tone just before the last interrupt is the same one used when about to exit the dreams.

3. You don't see Shepard die. Very dreamlike!!! Just like how you can't see you feet while walking through the citadel. And in dreams.

4. After shaking his head, TIM does not go for the control panel. In fact, the camera emphasizes that he doesn't...

What are your thoughts?

2. Alerting Shep that he has to take action, that he will not wake up if he just watches?

Or simply because Shepard is about to leave the dream? (Die most likely). Just a thought.

[Red Panda]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
The more I look into this game, the more it just does seem to be an elaborate set up to fool the player... not Shepard, but the player... into making a choice that they had been resisting from day one.  So instead of fighting the Reapers, you embrace them and lose everything you ever were.  It's all elegant and amazing if that is actually a planned outcome... however, it just seems so much more plausible Bioware just royally screwed up and literally stumbled into a theory because they simply didn't have the competence to write a good ending... I just really hope they epically trolled everyone and really are smarter than many fans gave them credit for.

We all do. There are simply too many coincidences for IT to be wrong on all levels.

But are Bioware's writers really that creative? That is the question. IT, at least this thread anyway, is a testament to what the fanbase can construct, but if you're right, Mac Walters and co are the most brilliant people of all time. Such a thing would be highly interesting. Are we really placing that much faith onto a single writer? I mean the guy writes characters well, but narratives? Well, if you're right,  IT is essentially "finding the brilliance of the writers".

[Rifneno]

masster blaster wrote...

Wait what about IT comfirmed. Is this a joke?

"IT confirmed" is the new "Does this prove IT?" meme.  Trust me, when it's confirmed, you'll know.  Your first question will be "OMG, where did these 50 pages come from in 10 minutes?!"  And then it'll click.  IT confirmed, that's where!

[BansheeOwnage]

Hey, who's up to dominating gold games on 360?

[Andromidius]

OperatingWookie wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
The more I look into this game, the more it just does seem to be an elaborate set up to fool the player... not Shepard, but the player... into making a choice that they had been resisting from day one.  So instead of fighting the Reapers, you embrace them and lose everything you ever were.  It's all elegant and amazing if that is actually a planned outcome... however, it just seems so much more plausible Bioware just royally screwed up and literally stumbled into a theory because they simply didn't have the competence to write a good ending... I just really hope they epically trolled everyone and really are smarter than many fans gave them credit for.

We all do. There are simply too many coincidences for IT to be wrong on all levels.

But are Bioware's writers really that creative? That is the question. IT, at least this thread anyway, is a testament to what the fanbase can construct, but if you're right, Mac Walters and co are the most brilliant people of all time. Such a thing would be highly interesting. Are we really placing that much faith onto a single writer? I mean the guy writes characters well, but narratives? Well, if you're right,  IT is essentially "finding the brilliance of the writers".

Who says its only a single writer involved?  Considering the amount of detail, every single member of the writing staff would have to be involved.

[Rifneno]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Hey, who's up to dominating gold games on 360?

Lots of missile glitchers!

[BansheeOwnage]

[quote]OperatingWookie wrote...

But are Bioware's writers really that creative?[quote]
I'll direct you to this post and I'll let you make your own conclusions.

(So Bioware can't do this kind of thing? Right.)
Hello everyone. This is my first post on BSN (so forgive me if I make a mistake ) I've been reading on this forum since a few weeks after ME3 released (and the
ME2 forums before ME3 was announced.) I'm about 70/30 on indoctrination theory, but there is
definitely more to the endings then meets the eye.
Now to the point. I found something interesting while replaying Jade Empire (the first Bioware game I played and the reason I first played Mass Effect) that made me think of the ME3 endings.

HUGE JADE EMPIRE SPOILERS AHEAD!

At the end when you face the main antagonist, he gives you a choice to surrender...

This scene takes place after the PC breaks free from Sun Li's hold by fighting a battle in his/her
mind.

Sun Li: I see now that the Water Dragon's power is the prize, not the means to victory. No matter
what I expend, while you live you will resist. That is your role.
It is the Celestial Bureaucracy attempting to restore balance. We must bring the fight back down
to earth. Unless... you are made to see reason.

Player: I'm Listening

Sun Li: What if I guarantee your name will live in the heart of each and every citizen in the Jade
Empire? It is a glory beyond mere heroics. You would be eternal.
I do not seek power as my brother did. I will correct the violence inherent in Man. I will make
certain there are no more wars, no more droughts.
Everyone will be content in their roles. And they will hold in their hearts the warrior who
sacrificed everything so that they might prosper. You could make that happen.

Player: I fall, but my name lives on forever? Why would I agree?

Sun Li: If you defeat me, little will change. In time, this Empire will come and go, along with
the memory of what you did. I seek eternal stability.
Your name will forever be lauded. In the end, is that not the only immortality worth having?

Player: Forever remembered as a hero by all?

Sun Li: Forever. Not a man, woman, or child will go a day without acknowledging your sacrifice.
Many have struggled for utopia; you will be the heart of it.

Player: Then I agree.

Sun Li: You do? You will let down your defenses so that I may guide the Jade Empire to a stable
future?

Player: For the Jade Empire and the name of (PC's Name), I agree.

Sun Li: Then let it be done. You give yourself to a far greater glory than you could ever know.
Goodbye, my student. You fulfilled your role just as I had wished.

The scene changes to an old man and a young boy standing in front of a statue of the PC.

Old Man: The statue of the hero. A shining symbol of sacrifice.
Look upon it and feel gratitude for all the prosperity we have.

Boy: What was life like before?

The old man turns to the boy his dead grey/brown eyes show he is "Indoctrinated".

Old Man: You don't need to know. All that matters is the glory of the Empire.

Boy: But we need to ask questions to honor what was done. What if this hero wasn't finished?

A Large golum looks at the boy, The old man looks worried.

Old Man: This is your lesson for today. To be happy in your station, you don't need to know.

Boy: We don't need to know.

Old Man: Very good Return to your place.

The boy walks back to sit with the rest of the children.

Old Man: Now, who has delivered the Empire from war and pestilence?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

Old Man: Who showed us how to sacrifice for the greater good, so we are free to live in peace?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

Old Man: Who has ensured that the Empire will endure forever?

Children: The Hero and the Glorious Strategist.

The Scene pans to show Sun Li watching over the group, he then turns around and walks away
with an evil laugh.

Just thought that was interesting to see how choices in past Bioware endings compare to ME3's.
- John Walden

They did very similar things in past titles, but I can't find the post right now. Basically IT is all of the past tricks BW has done - combined!

Edit: Very useful top!

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 31 décembre 2012 - 01:32 .

[Kabraxal]

magnetite wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...
The more I look into this game, the more it just does seem to be an elaborate set up to fool the player... not Shepard, but the player... into making a choice that they had been resisting from day one.  So instead of fighting the Reapers, you embrace them and lose everything you ever were.  It's all elegant and amazing if that is actually a planned outcome... however, it just seems so much more plausible Bioware just royally screwed up and literally stumbled into a theory because they simply didn't have the competence to write a good ending... I just really hope they epically trolled everyone and really are smarter than many fans gave them credit for.

According to the Final Hours app, it was planned. Or at least parts of it, specifically the whole master race enslaving the lesser ones (hyper advanced Reapers enslaving lesser primitive organics).

However, some I've talked to just can't be reasoned with. They are so convinced that the ending is whack that nothing I say could convince them. Not even that video I made which makes it painly obvious what the ending was. They believe that the game needed more time to make everything perfect, even though the first and second games were given the same development time as the third. Can't really expect perfection from products and such made by people who aren't designed perfect to begin with. We all have our flaws and faults. Our TVs and such only are built to last around 5 years, not 100 years. Just an example. 

I think they are indoctrinated. Although I'd probably never say it.

That was what brought me to IT, though it didn't have a name yet.  Finished it and after starting a new playthrough right after, I suddnely wondered why the hell it felt so wrong and those dream sequences felt off and then finally got to the big one... why in the hell did I not choose destroy?  O right, because I was suddenly offered a way to not kill half of what I'd just fought for in the Geth and EDI.  And had that "ewwwww... I was indoctrinated!" feeling right then.  

Then I found this thread in its infancy and found even more things that were off because of it