80611 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

masster blaster wrote...

Megum I think Vega is starting to feel hear things on the Normandy, and if he feels like he is being watched then it possible, and remember what Anderson said to Shepard " Pick your team well." If Liara, Ash, Vega, and Kadin are starting to feel the affects, then maybe Anderson's pick your team well makes sense.

Masster, you really need to let that 'pick your team well' thing go.

You're going into a damned warzone, fighting up through the heaviest resistance. He's just telling you to pick the best people for the fight.

[MegumiAzusa]

masster blaster wrote...

Megum I think Vega is starting to feel hear things on the Normandy, and if he feels like he is being watched then it possible, and remember what Anderson said to Shepard " Pick your team well." If Liara, Ash, Vega, and Kadin are starting to feel the affects, then maybe Anderson's pick your team well makes sense.

Vega hearing the hum was actually my first point. Later I noticed the watching when at the Proto Reaper and Byne posted about the N7 mission. Then I took the strings of the conversations and compared them for that post.

byne wrote...

Masster, you really need to let that 'pick your team well' thing go.

You're going into a damned warzone, fighting up through the heaviest resistance. He's just telling you to pick the best people for the fight.

And the ones who supplements Shepard the best. (based on class and abilities)

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 09 août 2012 - 02:18 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Also sounds like shared thoughts.

That one was too uncertain. It can just be random blurp. It's not unusual to say "you read my mind" if you get the same idea.

[Home run MF]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Forget it

A smaller rundown, there are some other bits (most I can't remember) but these are what I would say the major hints.
http://social.biowar...32/260#12232510

If I tell you the thruth while playing the game I tough they where warnings to the player about Shepard's state of mind not about the crew. They didn't want to put auto-dialogue in Shepard regarding indoctrination (it'll make to obvious).
Letting you know something was not right without giving away too much.

And I wanna apologize if I came out blunt, I was in a playful mood, guess it got lost in my bad way of expresing myself.

[Simon_Says]

*sigh* Caught up with the thread again. And again most of it is... well, nonspeculation. Restating old arguments and other sheisse.

Let's go bonkers shall we? Literalists avert your gaze. This is off-the-wall stuff and I'm very much aware how insane it will sound. Right, here goes.

The Catalyst may not be a new character. In fact it may be one we all ready met. No, I don't mean Harbinger. I mean the protoreaper you killed in ME2. Yes, you read that right, I'm saying the Catalyst could be a surviving remnant of the Protoreaper.

Now that you've stopped laughing hear me out.

The protoreaper is an amalagam of scores of human lives lost to the reapers. The child in ME3 symbolizes... the scores of human lives lost to the reapers. It's not a solid connection I admit. But there could be something there.

The 'Catalyst', or whatever it's an avatar of, is in Shepard's head during the Crucible scene. There's no doubt about that. That it appears during the Crucible chamber scene as something Shepard saw on Earth in just three tenuous scenes (two of which didn't even involve any interaction) means that something was reading Shep's mind, the child was planted in Shep's mind, or the reapers/Catalyst was somehow able to extrapolate the child's significance to Shepard from three scenes they could only barely see if at all.

So the Catalyst is to some degree in Shep's head during the Crucible scene. Most of us also suspect the earthchild to be a hallucination during the Earth prologue. The roof-hopping, locked-door bypassing, explosion surviving, invisible-in-plain-sight earthchild simply can't be real given what we see. But what was generating that hallucination?

I'm saying that it's Shepard's own mind doing so, having been touched by the protoreaper in the finale of ME2. And it does so again throughout the nightmares and finally in the crucible chamber scene. Note that Saren and TIM were implanted with the seeds of indoctrination after only brief exposure's to the Arca Monolith. What's to say a true reaper can't do something similar? Note that Project Overlord shows Shepard's mind getting hijacked by a foreign intelligence through Shep's cybernetics. So it can be done.

So during the boss battle of ME2 the seed was planted, and it began to grow. What was once essentially a fetus develops into a child. Like a parasite or virus, it feeds on its host, preying on Shepard psyche, instilling an irrational survivor's guilt and exposing weaknesses, which it then uses to its advantage during the crucial turning point between freedom and enslavement of mind.

So yeah. This is yet another spin on the "indoctrination is a mind virus" theory. In this case I'm trying to identify where the 'virus' is in Shepard's psyche, and where it came from. And I think the protoreaper could be it.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 09 août 2012 - 02:33 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Home run MF wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Forget it

A smaller rundown, there are some other bits (most I can't remember) but these are what I would say the major hints.
http://social.biowar...32/260#12232510

If I tell you the thruth while playing the game I tough they where warnings to the player about Shepard's state of mind not about the crew. They didn't want to put auto-dialogue in Shepard regarding indoctrination (it'll make to obvious).
Letting you know something was not right without giving away too much.

And I wanna apologize if I came out blunt, I was in a playful mood, guess it got lost in my bad way of expresing myself.

I would have agreed if you couldn't divide your team into two parts that are identical on both occasions. For Vega it basically screams he is indoctrinated (though when is the first time at the embassies his remarks about how it's not right seem to be a warning, and a continuation of how every character in ME1 tells you there is something wrong with either the Citadel itself or at least the Council).

And no worries, I didn't mind you being too blunt. That is fine with me, I would only start to mind something like that if someone would insult me, but just being blunt... nah.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 09 août 2012 - 02:25 .

[masster blaster]

I never thought about that Simon says. Let's see what the others think.

[BlazingZephyr]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Megum I think Vega is starting to feel hear things on the Normandy, and if he feels like he is being watched then it possible, and remember what Anderson said to Shepard " Pick your team well." If Liara, Ash, Vega, and Kadin are starting to feel the affects, then maybe Anderson's pick your team well makes sense.

Vega hearing the hum was actually my first point. Later I noticed the watching when at the Proto Reaper and Byne posted about the N7 mission. Then I took the strings of the conversations and compared them for that post.

Now that you mention all of this, I can see Liara (ME1 at least), Vega, and Ashley (not sure about Kaiden) as being the weakest willed of your ME3 squad.

I'm wondering if the "Paragon Lost" movie will show Vega exposed to any significant amonts of Reaper tech.

[iggy1eco]

Simon_Says wrote...

The 'Catalyst', or whatever it's an avatar of, is in Shepard's head during the Crucible scene. There's no doubt about that. That it appears during the Crucible chamber scene as something Shepard saw on Earth in just three tenuous scenes (two of which didn't even involve any interaction) means that something was reading Shep's mind, the child was planted in Shep's mind, or the reapers/Catalyst was somehow able to extrapolate the child's significance to Shepard from three scenes they could only barely see if at all.

So the Catalyst is to some degree in Shep's head during the Crucible scene. Most of us also suspect the earthchild to be a hallucination during the Earth prologue. The roof-hopping, locked-door bypassing, explosion surviving, invisible-in-plain-sight earthchild simply can't be real given what we see. But what was generating that hallucination?

I'm saying that it's Shepard's own mind doing so, having been touched by the protoreaper in the finale of ME2. And it does so again throughout the nightmares and finally in the crucible chamber scene. Note that Saren and TIM were implanted with the seeds of indoctrination after only brief exposure's to the Arca Monolith. What's to say a true reaper can't do something similar? Note that Project Overlord shows Shepard's mind getting hijacked by a foreign intelligence through Shep's cybernetics. So it can be done.

So during the boss battle of ME2 the seed was planted, and it began to grow. What was once essentially a fetus develops into a child. It preys on Shepard, instilling an irrational survivor's guilt and exposing weaknesses, which it then uses to its advantage during the crucial turning point between freedom and enslavement of mind.

I like the connection you did there. Once again, more symbolism at work

Modifié par iggy1eco, 09 août 2012 - 02:33 .

[MegumiAzusa]

I'm not sure it's even good to try to pinpoint a specific source. Shepard had since Eden Prime massive exposure to Reaper artifacts and minions.

[MegumiAzusa]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Megum I think Vega is starting to feel hear things on the Normandy, and if he feels like he is being watched then it possible, and remember what Anderson said to Shepard " Pick your team well." If Liara, Ash, Vega, and Kadin are starting to feel the affects, then maybe Anderson's pick your team well makes sense.

Vega hearing the hum was actually my first point. Later I noticed the watching when at the Proto Reaper and Byne posted about the N7 mission. Then I took the strings of the conversations and compared them for that post.

Now that you mention all of this, I can see Liara (ME1 at least), Vega, and Ashley (not sure about Kaiden) as being the weakest willed of your ME3 squad.

I'm wondering if the "Paragon Lost" movie will show Vega exposed to any significant amonts of Reaper tech.

Liara seems to be still quite fragile under her tough facade. LotSB with Liara as LI makes that quite obvious.
Oh and Vega certainly had.
Remember his squad got raped by Collectors and he still managed to infiltrate their ship or something?
His lamenting over that is basically also what Shepards beckgrounds like when she is sole survivor or put her entire squad through the meatgrinder.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 09 août 2012 - 02:39 .

[Home run MF]

MegumiAzusa wrote...


I would have agreed if you couldn't divide your team into two parts that are identical on both occasions. For Vega it basically screams he is indoctrinated (though when is the first time at the embassies his remarks about how it's not right seem to be a warning, and a continuation of how every character in ME1 tells you there is something wrong with either the Citadel itself or at least the Council).

And no worries, I didn't mind you being too blunt. That is fine with me, I would only start to mind something like that if someone would insult me, but just being blunt... nah.

But the VS, Liara and James are the ones that have spent the least time around Reaper tech. How come they are indoctrinated a Garrus is not?
And how do you think did they became indoctrinated in the first place?

Modifié par Home run MF, 09 août 2012 - 02:39 .

[Simon_Says]

@Home run

For Liara: Through glyph. It's a VI of unknown origin. It basically runs the shadow broker network for the Shadow Broker. And yet the shadow broker network seems to always keep the balance of power at a status quo.

Maybe, like indoctrination, the VI is not the servant but the true master manipulating strings?

No idea about the VS or Vega though.

Speaking of which, Vega. Vega. Holy crap, Vega's actually a prothean VI!

Modifié par Simon_Says, 09 août 2012 - 02:43 .

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

@Home run

For Liara: Through glyph. It's a VI of unknown origin. It basically runs the shadow broker network for the Shadow Broker. And yet the shadow broker network seems to always keep the balance of power at a status quo.

Maybe, like indoctrination, the VI is not the servant but the true master manipulating strings?

I dont know. I dont really buy that whole Glyph thing.

[MegumiAzusa]

Home run MF wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Forget it

A smaller rundown, there are some other bits (most I can't remember) but these are what I would say the major hints.
http://social.biowar...32/260#12232510

If I tell you the thruth while playing the game I tough they where warnings to the player about Shepard's state of mind not about the crew. They didn't want to put auto-dialogue in Shepard regarding indoctrination (it'll make to obvious).
Letting you know something was not right without giving away too much.

And I wanna apologize if I came out blunt, I was in a playful mood, guess it got lost in my bad way of expresing myself.

I would have agreed if you couldn't divide your team into two parts that are identical on both occasions. For Vega it basically screams he is indoctrinated (though when is the first time at the embassies his remarks about how it's not right seem to be a warning, and a continuation of how every character in ME1 tells you there is something wrong with either the Citadel itself or at least the Council).

And no worries, I didn't mind you being too blunt. That is fine with me, I would only start to mind something like that if someone would insult me, but just being blunt... nah.

But the VS, Liara and James are the ones that have spent the least time around Reaper tech. How come they are indoctrinated a Garrus is not?
And how do you think did they became indoctrinated in the first place?

The VS spend most of the time with the Allience and then Udina... who turns out to be indoctrinated (there are actually in my opinion some hints towards that he is in the first steps of that after completing Feros, Therum, and Noveria)
Vega as said had lots of spare time on a Collector ship.
And Liara... no one knows what she did all that time, the comic which comes out end of this month gives some exposition about that. Other then that she studied the Prothean extinction. There is no telling if she stumbled over a few Reaper artifacts she thought were Prothean.

[Simon_Says]

It's the most likely source of Liara's indoctrination, after the prothean archives, if Liara was indoctrinated to some degree. Which I doubt she was.

[TJBartlemus]

Simon_Says wrote...

*sigh* Caught up with the thread again. And again most of it is... well, nonspeculation. Restating old arguments and other sheisse.

Let's go bonkers shall we? Literalists avert your gaze. This is off-the-wall stuff and I'm very much aware how insane it will sound. Right, here goes.

The Catalyst may not be a new character. In fact it may be one we all ready met. No, I don't mean Harbinger. I mean the protoreaper you killed in ME2. Yes, you read that right, I'm saying the Catalyst could be a surviving remnant of the Protoreaper.

Now that you've stopped laughing hear me out.

The protoreaper is an amalagam of scores of human lives lost to the reapers. The child in ME3 symbolizes... the scores of human lives lost to the reapers. It's not a solid connection I admit. But there could be something there.

The 'Catalyst', or whatever it's an avatar of, is in Shepard's head during the Crucible scene. There's no doubt about that. That it appears during the Crucible chamber scene as something Shepard saw on Earth in just three tenuous scenes (two of which didn't even involve any interaction) means that something was reading Shep's mind, the child was planted in Shep's mind, or the reapers/Catalyst was somehow able to extrapolate the child's significance to Shepard from three scenes they could only barely see if at all.

So the Catalyst is to some degree in Shep's head during the Crucible scene. Most of us also suspect the earthchild to be a hallucination during the Earth prologue. The roof-hopping, locked-door bypassing, explosion surviving, invisible-in-plain-sight earthchild simply can't be real given what we see. But what was generating that hallucination?

I'm saying that it's Shepard's own mind doing so, having been touched by the protoreaper in the finale of ME2. And it does so again throughout the nightmares and finally in the crucible chamber scene. Note that Saren and TIM were implanted with the seeds of indoctrination after only brief exposure's to the Arca Monolith. What's to say a true reaper can't do something similar? Note that Project Overlord shows Shepard's mind getting hijacked by a foreign intelligence through Shep's cybernetics. So it can be done.

So during the boss battle of ME2 the seed was planted, and it began to grow. What was once essentially a fetus develops into a child. Like a parasite or virus, it feeds on its host, preying on Shepard psyche, instilling an irrational survivor's guilt and exposing weaknesses, which it then uses to its advantage during the crucial turning point between freedom and enslavement of mind.

So yeah. This is yet another spin on the "indoctrination is a mind virus" theory. In this case I'm trying to identify where the 'virus' is in Shepard's psyche, and where it came from. And I think the protoreaper could be it.

Interesting connection. Some would even say it is a coincidence. I like a quote from the new Batman movie, "You're a detective now, you're not allowed to believe in coincidences." For me this is my approach for all my speculations. Now off to my investigation on the connection of Cerberus and London....

[masster blaster]

Liara was looking for Prothean artifacts. It's possible that she incountered a Reaper artifact, that she mistaken for a prothean artifact.

This is for Home run.

[Simon_Says]

THIS POST IS IRRELEVENT, HUMAN

Modifié par Simon_Says, 09 août 2012 - 02:49 .

[smokingotter1]

TSA_383 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
The brain is basically the organic equilivant of a processor, to put it bluntly (they are different, but they share some similarities)

Quick off-topic moment here:

I find brains and our lack of understanding over their inner workings absolutely fascinating.
I saw your post and felt compelled to post this photo:



^That is my brain.
No, really 
I find it strange that something so organic (not even symmetrical) is capable of so much...

No it's kind of relevent because it's my belief that the hallway that leads up to meeting TIM/Anderson is representative of the limbic system, the part of the brain the reapers hijack.

Hallways dead humans and keepers=blood vessels, aspects of his identity being erased
Parts of the shadow broker ship and "hallways moving"= neurons firing and synapic pathways being rewritten
Opening the citadel arms= opening Shepard's eyes
Anderson/TIM/Shepard= Fruedian trio that make up Shepard's personality.

When Shepard passes out he accends to the decision chamber, or if we are following my analogy about biology he is going up to the Orbitofrontal Cortex which is *gasp* right above the eyes. Why is the orbitofrontal cortex so important? Because it's the part of the brain that handles decision making. The entire decision chamber resembles a dialogue wheel, the tool with which [you] have been making decisions for Shepard.



Edited to remove some of the snarkyness.... sorry I get snarky when I get drowsy.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 09 août 2012 - 03:06 .

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

THIS POST IS IRRELEVENT, HUMAN

Double post?

I hope to make one of those someday.

[masster blaster]

Also Remember when Harbinger went after VS, and it's weird that Harbinger didn't take the VS but took everyone else around the VS. It's posible that's were the VS started to feel the Indoctrination taken affect, but slowly. Just saying.

[Home run MF]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


I would have agreed if you couldn't divide your team into two parts that are identical on both occasions. For Vega it basically screams he is indoctrinated (though when is the first time at the embassies his remarks about how it's not right seem to be a warning, and a continuation of how every character in ME1 tells you there is something wrong with either the Citadel itself or at least the Council).

And no worries, I didn't mind you being too blunt. That is fine with me, I would only start to mind something like that if someone would insult me, but just being blunt... nah.

But the VS, Liara and James are the ones that have spent the least time around Reaper tech. How come they are indoctrinated a Garrus is not?
And how do you think did they became indoctrinated in the first place?

The VS spend most of the time with the Allience and then Udina... who turns out to be indoctrinated (there are actually in my opinion some hints towards that he is in the first steps of that after completing Feros, Therum, and Noveria)
Vega as said had lots of spare time on a Collector ship.
And Liara... no one knows what she did all that time, the comic which comes out end of this month gives some exposition about that. Other then that she studied the Prothean extinction. There is no telling if she stumbled over a few Reaper artifacts she thought were Prothean.

But what if the divisions on the team represent the division on Shepard's mind? Like the Anderson TIM confrontation.
Like an inner fight she is having during the whole game.

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

THIS POST IS IRRELEVENT, HUMAN

Double post?

I hope to make one of those someday.

Nah. Just said something and then thought better of it.

[MegumiAzusa]

Home run MF wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


I would have agreed if you couldn't divide your team into two parts that are identical on both occasions. For Vega it basically screams he is indoctrinated (though when is the first time at the embassies his remarks about how it's not right seem to be a warning, and a continuation of how every character in ME1 tells you there is something wrong with either the Citadel itself or at least the Council).

And no worries, I didn't mind you being too blunt. That is fine with me, I would only start to mind something like that if someone would insult me, but just being blunt... nah.

But the VS, Liara and James are the ones that have spent the least time around Reaper tech. How come they are indoctrinated a Garrus is not?
And how do you think did they became indoctrinated in the first place?

The VS spend most of the time with the Allience and then Udina... who turns out to be indoctrinated (there are actually in my opinion some hints towards that he is in the first steps of that after completing Feros, Therum, and Noveria)
Vega as said had lots of spare time on a Collector ship.
And Liara... no one knows what she did all that time, the comic which comes out end of this month gives some exposition about that. Other then that she studied the Prothean extinction. There is no telling if she stumbled over a few Reaper artifacts she thought were Prothean.

But what if the divisions on the team represent the division on Shepard's mind? Like the Anderson TIM confrontation.
Like an inner fight she is having during the whole game.

I don't know if we should take everything for an image of Shepard's psyche. I don't think they would use squadmates for that as each represents it's own strengths and flaws. Anderson and TIM on the other hand each represent one ideal. Anderson representing the goal from the start, defeating the Reapers, while TIM represents the doubt, the what if, what if the Reapers have it right. Squadmates don't work that way.
Garrus for example, he is torn between his fathers ideals of doing everything by the book, be the perfect example and never break a rule, and his "wild" nature, seeing injustice but being unable to go for the root because he is blocked by red tape. That is what defines Garrus and what you are actively shaping when talking with him. As you shape Garrus one can't just use him to convey a completely different message.
Now as another example Vega. He's quite young, more or less experienced, and his background was quite unfavorable. His mother died and his dead is a red sand junky. Then his squad died on a mission. It's basically a second Shepard. The difference here again is he is insecure. Shepard was strong since ME1, either selfless help for others or shoving a gun in their face. The dance with him and later when he comes in your quaters to get your recommendation you learn quite a lot about him. He basically blames himself for everything, and again you help him to deal with it and shape him.
But with all this you actually have no control over how to shape Shepard, how she deals with her loss.